The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Broomstick »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2020-04-14 03:07am The Fuhrer claims he has absolute authority as President, and can dictate when states reopen. Governors tell him to go fuck himself:
Go governors!

https://cbc.ca/news/world/coronavirus-t ... -1.5530731
U.S. President Donald Trump claimed the authority Monday to decide how and when to reopen the economy after weeks of tough social distancing guidelines aimed at fighting the new coronavirus. But governors from both parties were quick to push back, noting they have the primary constitutional responsibility for ensuring public safety in their states and would decide when it's safe to begin a return to normal operations.
The emphasized is important - Trump will try to frame this a "Democrat problem" (actually, he already did in that same briefing) but it's not. If right now most of the two compacts are Democrat governors it's because of geography and population density, but on the East Coast the Republican governors in the area are part of the compact.
Wolf joined governors in New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Delaware and Rhode Island in agreeing to co-ordinate their actions. The governors of California, Oregon and Washington announced a similar pact. While each state is building its own plan, the three West Coast states have agreed to a framework saying they will work together, put their residents' health first and let science guide their decisions.
You mean.... actually fulfill the proper role of government?...
Though Trump abandoned his goal of rolling back social distancing guidelines by Sunday, he has been itching to reopen an economy that has dramatically contracted as businesses have shuttered, leaving millions of people out of work and struggling to obtain basic commodities. The closure has also undermined Trump's reelection message, which hinged on a booming economy.
Trump must going crazy over this - it's a disaster on his watch, he can't fix it by any of his usual bullshit, and he's losing what little authority and control he had because with people dying the fact the emperor has no clothes is getting impossible to ignore. I suspect this is the point he becomes more dangerous.
Trump's claim that he could force governors to reopen their states represents a dramatic shift in tone. For weeks now, Trump has argued that states, not the federal government, should lead the response to the crisis. And he has refused to publicly pressure states to enact stay-at-home restrictions, citing his belief in local control of government.
Trump abandoned responsibility but now he wants it back because he wants to be seen as a hero for re-opening the economy and think he can just declare that it's open and all is good. He has NO understanding of medicine, disease, or public health. He clearly doesn't have a grasp of the actual constitution of the United States. And IF the governors were so foolish as to obey him in this and second wave of infection and death swept over the US he'd abandon his authority and responsibility and blame the states or something else for the chaos and disaster that would follow.
The president sought to persuade the public to look past his comments playing down the threat of the virus and to dismiss comments, including those by Fauci, that more could have been done. He also said he had no plans to fire Fauci.
Saying dismiss the comments of the doctor/scientist just means Trump still has no clue about medicine, disease, or public health. And very often if Trump says he's not going to fire someone he's already thinking of how to fire someone.

At this point Trump keeps Fauci because knows on some level he needs Fauci - but I don't think he understands why he needs Fauci. I'm pretty sure Trump is jealous of the doctor and the positive attention he receives.
Trump has told aides that he knows blowback to removing Fauci would be fierce and that — at least for now — he is stuck with the doctor. He has, on more than one occasion, however, urged that Fauci be left out of task force briefings or have his speaking role curtailed, according to the Republicans.
This is what I mean - he's trying to leave the doctor/scientist out of the loop in regard to a threat that involves science and medicine. He has NO understanding of what Fauci does, his role in this crisis, or why people trust him. Trump thinks he can use him a window dressing, just like he uses a red hat or catch phrases, to be trotted out and perform to make Trump look good.
It has crossed my mind that these compacts between Democratic state governors to handle the coronavirus independently of Trump's decrees, could lay the groundwork for/be adapted into the basis of an alliance to resist Trump and establish an alternative government if he tries to overturn the election results.
Don't play into Trump's line that this is solely between Democratic governors. The addition of Massachusetts brings a Republican, Charlie Baker, to the mix. Other nearby Republican governors who might join the group due to proximity include New Hampshire's Chris Sununu, Vermont's Phil Scott (remember that Vermont is the state that elected Bernie Sanders to the Senate - they're not the typical sort of Republican state), and Maryland's Larry Hogan. West Virginia currently has a Republican governor but given how they've approached this mess I doubt their governor will do more than continue to fellate oligarchs and sit around with his thumb up his ass. Given how interconnected all those states are economically and the population density they all have a mutual interest into working together and not opening up too soon.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Broomstick »

As an aside - while the title of the thread says "30 days" the thread is now 33 days old. Obviously, this is going on a little longer than originally planned. 50 pages in 33 days, this is a very busy thread!
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by ray245 »

Broomstick wrote: 2020-04-14 05:58am As an aside - while the title of the thread says "30 days" the thread is now 33 days old. Obviously, this is going on a little longer than originally planned. 50 pages in 33 days, this is a very busy thread!
It's going to take a long time before most travel restrictions are lifted. Also, most of us are staying at home, so that gives us more time to be online.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by The Romulan Republic »

As noted above, as far as the Canada/US border is concerned, the question right now is "Do we extend the closure for another two weeks, or another 30 days?" Full reopening isn't even on the table right now.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by madd0ct0r »

madd0ct0r wrote: 2020-04-13 05:23pm shep, thus might be an interesting graph to trail for nyc.

https://mobile.twitter.com/JeffTaylorUK ... 96/photo/1
The weekly ONS data is much more acurate than the daily hosptial one, but that is becuase cases have time to be reported anf filter through the reporting system.

still, accutrate is not the same as good news. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52278825
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by ray245 »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2020-04-14 06:36am As noted above, as far as the Canada/US border is concerned, the question right now is "Do we extend the closure for another two weeks, or another 30 days?" Full reopening isn't even on the table right now.
The situation in the US is not going to be contained anytime soon. It's going to take more than a month before things stabilise.

Hokkaido is experiencing a big second wave after they've lifted restrictions.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by The Romulan Republic »

ray245 wrote: 2020-04-14 08:41am
The Romulan Republic wrote: 2020-04-14 06:36am As noted above, as far as the Canada/US border is concerned, the question right now is "Do we extend the closure for another two weeks, or another 30 days?" Full reopening isn't even on the table right now.
The situation in the US is not going to be contained anytime soon. It's going to take more than a month before things stabilise.

Hokkaido is experiencing a big second wave after they've lifted restrictions.
Yeah, my preference would be for the 30-day extension, with the option to extend again at that time if the situation warrants it.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Cuomo's going after the Fuhrer on trying to reopen the country unilaterally, saying it would be a constitutional crisis if he did it without the states, and accusing Trump of declaring himself King:

https://businessinsider.com/king-trump- ... ors-2020-4
Just a couple days after President Trump said he and New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo were "getting along," the gloves came off Tuesday morning.

Cuomo went on the offensive in a pair of TV appearances, pushing back on Trump's assertion — contrary to the 10th Amendment — that his "authority is total" in making states roll back their stay-at-home orders to reopen the economy.

"The president basically declared himself King Trump, right?" Cuomo said on MSNBC's "Morning Joe."

"And all that annoying federal-state back and forth our founding fathers went through, he just disregarded that ... The governors are in charge because the president put them in charge. This is a total 180 from where the president started."

Cuomo added on NBC's "Today" show "We don't have a king. We have a president."

—Morning Joe (@Morning_Joe) April 14, 2020
This comes on the heels of Cuomo launching a multistate coalition to reopen the economy, a northeast megalopolis consisting of the top economic development official, health official, and each governor's chief of staff from New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts, and Delaware.

A Western States Pact was announced among California, Washington, and Oregon for a similar effort.

However, Cuomo and the other governors were adamant on Monday that they would proceed with caution, following the best medical advice and scientific data before sending more people back to work.

Trump bristled at the notion in a fiery Monday press briefing, and then took a shot across the bow on Twitter Tuesday morning.

—Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) April 14, 2020
"I got it all done for [Cuomo], and everyone else, and now he seems to want Independence!" Trump tweeted. "That won't happen!"

Cuomo said Trump would cause a "constitutional crisis" by trying to force states to overturn their stay at home orders, and that "if he pushed it to that absurd point, then we would have a problem."
Right on both counts, governor.

It always makes me feel better, knowing Cuomo is governor of New York. Because he's someone who basically takes zero shit from Trump, and with the State of New York investigating Trump on various things, and a governor's pardon being needed to get out of state-level convictions, I know Cuomo being where he is is probably the best chance we have of Trump seeing the inside of a prison cell.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by J »

All data from this site which Mr Friendly Guy linked to earlier.
https://dash-coronavirus-2020.herokuapp.com/

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Which one of these countries locked down? Which ones didn't? There should be an obvious difference, no?
If you can't tell which is which without looking it up on Google, perhaps it's time to start asking some uncomfortable questions.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by mr friendly guy »

India has extended their lockdown. Their numbers have been steadily climbing.

In other news, another pastor who refuted social distancing dies from coronavirus.

https://www-nytimes-com.cdn.ampproject. ... s.amp.html

Pastor Who Defied Social Distancing Dies After Contracting Covid-19, Church Says
The death of Gerald O. Glenn, the bishop of the New Deliverance Evangelistic Church in Chesterfield, Va., was announced during Easter services.
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By Neil Vigdor
April 14, 2020
Updated 10:36 a.m. ET
A Virginia pastor who defied warnings about the danger of religious gatherings during the pandemic and vowed to keep preaching “unless I’m in jail or the hospital” died over the weekend after contracting Covid-19, his church said.

The pastor, Gerald O. Glenn, 66, the bishop and founder of New Deliverance Evangelistic Church in Chesterfield, Va., died on Saturday night, according to Bryan Nevers, a church elder.

Mr. Nevers announced the death of Bishop Glenn during an Easter sermon, which was posted on the Facebook page of the Richmond-area Pentecostal congregation. He said that Bishop Glenn had transitioned from labor to reward.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by bilateralrope »

J wrote: 2020-04-14 06:31pmWhich one of these countries locked down? Which ones didn't? There should be an obvious difference, no?
If you can't tell which is which without looking it up on Google, perhaps it's time to start asking some uncomfortable questions.
Did you come to a conclusion when you looked at the data ?

Or are you just being snarky without saying anything that might be wrong ?
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by MKSheppard »

'Member when Cuomo was implementing plans to seize 20% of all ventilators in NY State and have them sent to NYC? Pepperidge Farm 'members.

Pepperidge farm also remembers certain NYS medical entities telling Cuomo to go fuck himself with regards to that plan.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by bilateralrope »

In NZ, fast food is not considered essential. All fast food restaurants are closed.

Owners of Burger King NZ placed in receivership
14/04/2020
Mark Quinlivan


The owners of New Zealand's Burger King franchise have been placed in receivership.

KordaMentha restructuring partner Grant Graham says the COVID-19 lockdown has significantly impacted the food giant’s finances. Graham has been appointed as the company's receiver along with Brendon Gibson, also of KordaMentha.

The receivership is part of a plan to restart the businesses post-lockdown and transition to a new owner, Graham said. The parent shareholding companies that have been placed in receivership are Tango Finance Ltd, Tango New Zealand Ltd, and Antares New Zealand Holdings Ltd.

Gibson said senior management teams remain committed to the business and serving customers.

"The team is also focused on the reopening plan to be implemented once the lockdown is lifted and conditions allow the business to restart."

Speaking to the Epidemic Response Committee on Tuesday, Finance Minister Grant Robertson said it was important to reiterate that it's the parent company in receivership, not the franchise itself.

"The operating subsidiary here in New Zealand is not actually in receivership and I understand that there is a significant amount of work going on a creditor compromise.

"That means, I think, if that creditor compromise comes through, we'll see the operating arm of Burger King in New Zealand continue to be able to trade and then as we move through the [alert] levels continue to be able to operate."
Sure, this is only a receivership, not a liquidation. But it's still the first high profile bankruptcy in NZ due to Covid19.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by The Romulan Republic »

MKSheppard wrote: 2020-04-14 10:06pm 'Member when Cuomo was implementing plans to seize 20% of all ventilators in NY State and have them sent to NYC? Pepperidge Farm 'members.

Pepperidge farm also remembers certain NYS medical entities telling Cuomo to go fuck himself with regards to that plan.
In fairness to Cuomo, NYC has the most cases of... anywhere. This is also a whole different question from whether Trump has the authority to open the country unilaterally so... what's your point? (just kidding, I know its bad Whataboutism)

Speaking of Dickless Donald:

https://cbc.ca/news/world/coronavirus-t ... -1.5532324
U.S. President Donald Trump says he has directed a halt to U.S. payments to the World Health Organization (WHO) pending a review of its warnings about the coronavirus and China.

Trump said at a White House news conference on Tuesday the outbreak could have been contained at its source and spared lives had the UN health agency done a better job investigating reports coming out of China.

He said the world depends on the WHO to work with countries to make sure accurate information about health threats are shared in a timely manner.

"The WHO failed in its basic duty and must be held accountable," Trump said at the briefing. He said the U.S. would be reviewing the WHO's actions to stop the virus before making any decision on resuming aid.

There was no immediate comment from the Geneva-based organization, but when asked about possible U.S. funding cuts during a regular UN briefing earlier Tuesday, WHO spokeswoman Margaret Harris responded, "Regardless of any issues, our work will go on."

Trump said the U.S. will continue to engage with the WHO in pursuit of "meaningful reforms."

"We're doing a very thorough investigation as we speak," he told reporters, saying it would take about 60 to 90 days.

"[The WHO] is very China-centric," he said, adding, it's "not right."

The United States contributed nearly $900 million US to the WHO's budget for 2018-19, according to information on the agency's website. That represents one-fifth of its total $4.4 billion budget for those years. The U.S. gave nearly three-fourths of the funds in "specified voluntary contributions" and the rest in "assessed" funding as part of Washington's commitment to UN institutions.

A more detailed WHO budget document provided by the U.S. mission in Geneva showed that in 2019, the U.S. provided $452 million, including nearly $119 million in assessed funding. In its most recent budget proposal from February, the Trump administration called for slashing the U.S. assessed funding contribution to the WHO to $57.9 million.

Last week, the head of the WHO gave a strident defence of his agency's handling of the pandemic after Trump threatened to halt WHO funding.

Director general Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus repeatedly called for unity and a halt to "politicization" of the global health crisis.

Tedros, a former foreign minister of Ethiopia, also rejected Trump's suggestion that the WHO was "China-centric," saying: "We are close to every nation, we are colour-blind."

Trump himself showed deference to China at the beginning stages of the outbreak.

"China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus," he tweeted on Jan. 24. "The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!"
Yup, he just cut funding to the World Health Organization mid-pandemic because he thinks they're too pro-China. He is actively sabotaging the entire global response to COVID-19, no doubt costing lives all over the world.

Next year, we should ship this fucker off to stand trial for Crimes Against Humanity.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Ziggy Stardust »

J wrote: 2020-04-14 06:31pm Which one of these countries locked down? Which ones didn't? There should be an obvious difference, no?
Yes, there is in fact a VERY obvious difference between those countries. I actually CAN tell just from looking at the graph. I don't want to ruin it for you, but I'm going to tell you that the hint is in looking at the y-axis. Then maybe spend a little timing reading through r/dataisugly/ if you still don't get it.
J wrote: 2020-04-14 06:31pm If you can't tell which is which without looking it up on Google, perhaps it's time to start asking some uncomfortable questions.
The only uncomfortable questions here are about your reading comprehension and critical reasoning skills.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Gandalf »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2020-04-14 11:48pmYup, he just cut funding to the World Health Organization mid-pandemic because he thinks they're too pro-China. He is actively sabotaging the entire global response to COVID-19, no doubt costing lives all over the world.

Next year, we should ship this fucker off to stand trial for Crimes Against Humanity.
Trump does better when he's railing against something, so I guess this is to offset his ridiculous press conference behaviour of late?
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Gandalf wrote: 2020-04-15 12:26am
The Romulan Republic wrote: 2020-04-14 11:48pmYup, he just cut funding to the World Health Organization mid-pandemic because he thinks they're too pro-China. He is actively sabotaging the entire global response to COVID-19, no doubt costing lives all over the world.

Next year, we should ship this fucker off to stand trial for Crimes Against Humanity.
Trump does better when he's railing against something, so I guess this is to offset his ridiculous press conference behaviour of late?
Yeah, probably, plus racist animosity to China (conflict with China was a pet project of Bannon's in particular that Trump seems to have stuck with).

"Fuck duh UN, USA, USA!" will play well with his base, of course.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by mr friendly guy »

Well since the US funds more to the WHO than China, then I guess the US just aren't getting bang for their buck.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by mr friendly guy »

Ziggy Stardust wrote: 2020-04-15 12:03am
J wrote: 2020-04-14 06:31pm Which one of these countries locked down? Which ones didn't? There should be an obvious difference, no?
Yes, there is in fact a VERY obvious difference between those countries. I actually CAN tell just from looking at the graph. I don't want to ruin it for you, but I'm going to tell you that the hint is in looking at the y-axis. Then maybe spend a little timing reading through r/dataisugly/ if you still don't get it.
J wrote: 2020-04-14 06:31pm If you can't tell which is which without looking it up on Google, perhaps it's time to start asking some uncomfortable questions.
The only uncomfortable questions here are about your reading comprehension and critical reasoning skills.
The thing I notice is its using number of cases rather than number of cases per say 100 k people, which would make it an easier comparison between countries with higher populations. I just assume J wanted us to notice something between the ratio of recovered cases and number of cases.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by J »

Ziggy Stardust wrote: 2020-04-15 12:03am Yes, there is in fact a VERY obvious difference between those countries. I actually CAN tell just from looking at the graph. I don't want to ruin it for you, but I'm going to tell you that the hint is in looking at the y-axis. Then maybe spend a little timing reading through r/dataisugly/ if you still don't get it.
Canada and the US put widespread lockdowns in place starting around the 2nd to 3rd week of March, the other countries only have limited restrictions on large public gatherings or even less. Businesses are up & running and even restaurants & bars are operating, albeit with seating restrictions in place. Why is it that their infection rates have dropped off just as fast or even earlier than Canada and the US? Maybe we missed the infection vectors, or worse, we do know what they are but refuse to acknowledge them much like we did with HIV/AIDS when it was traced to gay bathhouses and IV drug users.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by ray245 »

J wrote: 2020-04-15 01:15am
Ziggy Stardust wrote: 2020-04-15 12:03am Yes, there is in fact a VERY obvious difference between those countries. I actually CAN tell just from looking at the graph. I don't want to ruin it for you, but I'm going to tell you that the hint is in looking at the y-axis. Then maybe spend a little timing reading through r/dataisugly/ if you still don't get it.
Canada and the US put widespread lockdowns in place starting around the 2nd to 3rd week of March, the other countries only have limited restrictions on large public gatherings or even less. Businesses are up & running and even restaurants & bars are operating, albeit with seating restrictions in place. Why is it that their infection rates have dropped off just as fast or even earlier than Canada and the US? Maybe we missed the infection vectors, or worse, we do know what they are but refuse to acknowledge them much like we did with HIV/AIDS when it was traced to gay bathhouses and IV drug users.
Taiwan has very aggressive contact tracing and they shut their borders to China very, very early.

The less cases you have, the easier it is to track and contain the spread.

Using Taiwan and Iceland as examples is not a valid comparison, because both countries were able to test well for cases and contain them well.

Context matters.

Take Singapore for example. Our numbers are rising depsite a lockdown, because the government forgot about the poor migrant workers who are stuck in dorms with poor sanitary conditons and they are unable to socially distance from each other (12 or more people sharing a room).

Without looking closer at the data, it might seem like the lockdown has failed. But looking at numbers alone does not tell you the full story.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by wautd »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2020-04-14 11:48pm
Yup, he just cut funding to the World Health Organization mid-pandemic because he thinks they're too pro-China. He is actively sabotaging the entire global response to COVID-19, no doubt costing lives all over the world.
So he went from ignoring the messenger, shooting the messenger to just throwing the baby out with the bathwater all together.

It's pretty insane to expect the WHO would be infalliable all the time. Especially with regards to a highly contagious virus that's good at staying hiding for a long incubation period
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by wautd »

This crisis painfully shows the incompetence of autocratic, science denialist leaders.
Turkmenistan's president probably takes the cake. They simply made it illegal to mention the virus and deny it exists in their country
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by ray245 »

wautd wrote: 2020-04-15 06:58am This crisis painfully shows the incompetence of autocratic, science denialist leaders.
Turkmenistan's president probably takes the cake. They simply made it illegal to mention the virus and deny it exists in their country
They can afford to ignore science when their position are not being directly threatened. With a virus that is capable of even reaching the most closed-off gated community, their habit of pretending the problem does not exist becomes a huge problem.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Civil War Man »

J wrote: 2020-04-15 01:15amCanada and the US put widespread lockdowns in place starting around the 2nd to 3rd week of March, the other countries only have limited restrictions on large public gatherings or even less. Businesses are up & running and even restaurants & bars are operating, albeit with seating restrictions in place. Why is it that their infection rates have dropped off just as fast or even earlier than Canada and the US? Maybe we missed the infection vectors, or worse, we do know what they are but refuse to acknowledge them much like we did with HIV/AIDS when it was traced to gay bathhouses and IV drug users.
In terms of the US, if by "widespread" you mean "implemented piecemeal, after the disease already had weeks to spread unchecked, with spotty enforcement and abysmal compliance in most places, and big enough loopholes to fit a fleet of trucks coming out of an Amazon warehouse that is still open and not even providing hand sanitizer and masks for its workers", then yes, we put "widespread" lockdowns in place.
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