The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by aerius »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2020-04-27 09:50amThat's only good news if conditions there warrant easing restrictions. The state of Georgia is easing restrictions too, but doing it while the number of cases is spiking dramatically.
In today's episode of TRR shoots himself in the groin again, our resident moron proves that he failed middle school math and can't read a graph.

Georgia department of health stats
https://dph.georgia.gov/covid-19-daily-status-report

Yeah, the cases are spiking dramatically alright. Downward.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by The Romulan Republic »

aerius wrote: 2020-04-27 10:05am
The Romulan Republic wrote: 2020-04-27 09:50amThat's only good news if conditions there warrant easing restrictions. The state of Georgia is easing restrictions too, but doing it while the number of cases is spiking dramatically.
In today's episode of TRR shoots himself in the groin again, our resident moron proves that he failed middle school math and can't read a graph.

Georgia department of health stats
https://dph.georgia.gov/covid-19-daily-status-report

Yeah, the cases are spiking dramatically alright. Downward.
Here's from three days ago:

https://time.com/5826943/georgia-reopen-coronavirus/
(SAVANNAH, Ga.) — Some salons, gyms and other close-contact services in Georgia prepared to open Friday as the Republican governor eased a month-long shutdown amid experts’ warnings of a potential new surge in coronavirus infections and a potent objection from President Donald Trump.

With deaths and infections still rising in Georgia, many business owners planned to remain closed in spite of Gov. Brian Kemp’s assurance that hospital visits and new cases have leveled off enough for barbers, tattoo artists, massage therapists and personal trainers to return to work with restrictions.
For fuck's sake, even Trump thinks what Georgia's doing is asinine. You hear that, aerius? You're literally being stupider and more reckless than Donald Trump.

And here's from 15 hours ago:

https://wjcl.com/article/coronavirus-in ... d/32280232#
The state of Georgia reports 23,481 positive cases of COVID-19 with the release of new numbers Sunday evening.

The new numbers represent an increase of 80 cases from numbers reported Sunday at noon. Georgia has reported 916 coronavirus deaths.

The state also reported there are 4,377 people hospitalized as of Sunday night.
As to aerius's actual source, which I'm guessing he assumed no one would bother to actually read, it does show an overall drop in cases and deaths over the last week or so, though it should be noted that the same graph has shown the number of new cases and deaths drop sharply and then surge again repeatedly over the past two months. This is all assuming, of course, that you trust the State of Georgia to accurately report the data when they have a clear political interest in downplaying the severity of the pandemic in the state, and other sources appear to contradict theirs'.

Pro tip aerius: don't publicly defame someone who is able and willing to call you on it.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by aerius »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2020-04-27 10:38am Here's from three days ago:

https://time.com/5826943/georgia-reopen-coronavirus/
That was 3 days ago.
For fuck's sake, even Trump thinks what Georgia's doing is asinine. You hear that, aerius? You're literally being stupider and more reckless than Donald Trump.
Did I say anything about reopening the State? Oh, that's right, I didn't. Assface.
And here's from 15 hours ago:

https://wjcl.com/article/coronavirus-in ... d/32280232#
The state of Georgia reports 23,481 positive cases of COVID-19 with the release of new numbers Sunday evening.

The new numbers represent an increase of 80 cases from numbers reported Sunday at noon. Georgia has reported 916 coronavirus deaths.

The state also reported there are 4,377 people hospitalized as of Sunday night.
As to aerius's actual source, which I'm guessing he assumed no one would bother to actually read, it does show an overall drop in cases and deaths over the last week or so, though it should be noted that the same graph has shown the number of new cases and deaths drop sharply and then surge again repeatedly over the past two months. This is all assuming, of course, that you trust the State of Georgia to accurately report the data when they have a clear political interest in downplaying the severity of the pandemic in the state, and other sources appear to contradict theirs'.
Your own source cites the stats provided by the state of Georgia via its Department of Health, which was the source I linked to. So you're claiming your link is correct and mine is doctored, because reasons, even though they're one and the same.

Note the numbers from your own link. 23,481 positive, 4,377 hospitalized, 916 dead.
Here's the numbers from my link.
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Exactly the same. Because it's the same fucking source. I'd ask if you even read your own links or do any checking, but that would be a waste of time since everyone knows the answer is clearly no.
Pro tip aerius: don't publicly defame someone who is able and willing to call you on it.
You keep using that word. It doesn't mean what you think it means.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by The Romulan Republic »

aerius wrote: 2020-04-27 12:38pm
The Romulan Republic wrote: 2020-04-27 10:38am Here's from three days ago:

https://time.com/5826943/georgia-reopen-coronavirus/
That was 3 days ago.
At which point they were already planning to reopen. Nor is 3 days a terribly long time, considering that the numbers have dropped and then risen again in the past.
Did I say anything about reopening the State? Oh, that's right, I didn't. Assface.
No, you just rushed to attack and insult me for criticizing Georgia's decision to open, and refute my reasons for doing so.

But yeah, your motive was probably not so much "defend Georgia's policy" as "grab any thin pretext to shit on me so you can feel like a big man".
Your own source cites the stats provided by the state of Georgia via its Department of Health, which was the source I linked to. So you're claiming your link is correct and mine is doctored, because reasons, even though they're one and the same.
I made no such claim. You might infer such a belief from my post- and I might infer support for reopening Georgia from yours'.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by whackadoodle »

The Cheeto King didn't think it was asinine. That would require thought. He was doing what he does, covering his ass in case Georgia goes sideways. He'll take full credit if it works, though. Oh, and shivving Kemp for giving Isaakson's old seat to Loeffler instead of Collins probably felt almost as nice as sucking his own dick.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by whackadoodle »

Oh, and as for Georgia's "lockdown"? A lot of places were declared essential, compared to other states.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by aerius »

whackadoodle wrote: 2020-04-27 03:56pm Oh, and as for Georgia's "lockdown"? A lot of places were declared essential, compared to other states.
Would it be fair to say that it's a lockdown in name only, and pretty much a token effort?

IF this is the case, reopening the state shouldn't cause a giant spike in cases since not that much was actually done to suppress the spread in the first place.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by The Romulan Republic »

aerius wrote: 2020-04-27 06:11pm
whackadoodle wrote: 2020-04-27 03:56pm Oh, and as for Georgia's "lockdown"? A lot of places were declared essential, compared to other states.
Would it be fair to say that it's a lockdown in name only, and pretty much a token effort?

IF this is the case, reopening the state shouldn't cause a giant spike in cases since not that much was actually done to suppress the spread in the first place.
So what you're saying is, it doesn't matter if they're sacrificing their people to the God of Capitalism now, because they already did?
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by aerius »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2020-04-27 06:13pm So what you're saying is, it doesn't matter if they're sacrificing their people to the God of Capitalism now, because they already did?
Guess I will have to spell it out for you since you are that dumb.

It sounds like Georgia only made a token effort to flatten it the curve and slow the spread. I'm asking whackadoodle to confirm if this is true.

If this is the case, then what's the difference between a token lockdown and a formal reopening of the state?

I'd ask you to use your brain and think this through before throwing yet another infantile tantrum, but we both know that's a waste of time.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by The Romulan Republic »

aerius wrote: 2020-04-27 06:28pm
The Romulan Republic wrote: 2020-04-27 06:13pm So what you're saying is, it doesn't matter if they're sacrificing their people to the God of Capitalism now, because they already did?
Guess I will have to spell it out for you since you are that dumb.

It sounds like Georgia only made a token effort to flatten it the curve and slow the spread. I'm asking whackadoodle to confirm if this is true.

If this is the case, then what's the difference between a token lockdown and a formal reopening of the state?

I'd ask you to use your brain and think this through before throwing yet another infantile tantrum, but we both know that's a waste of time.
I'd ask you not to devote literally every other post you make to throwing abuse at me that would have gotten you banned years ago if this board enforced its own rules, but I know that's a waste of time.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by mr friendly guy »

Not to get into another fight, Jesus knows I have been in enough spats here, but Georgia's curve might be just flattening. Early days yet though, and it might shoot up. I wouldn't consider the numbers at the moment to be spiking, but its still possible to turn. If it was me, I wouldn't be calling for a reopening until a length of time when the curve has been flat.

Oh, and the US has hit 1 million known cases. Deaths are greater than 50,000 which is halfway to what the Orange one considers a "good job."
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by The Romulan Republic »

mr friendly guy wrote: 2020-04-27 08:28pm Not to get into another fight, Jesus knows I have been in enough spats here, but Georgia's curve might be just flattening. Early days yet though, and it might shoot up. I wouldn't consider the numbers at the moment to be spiking, but its still possible to turn. If it was me, I wouldn't be calling for a reopening until a length of time when the curve has been flat.
Pretty much. There is some evidence that the situation in Georgia is improving. But it could easily shoot back up, especially if they've jumped the gun on reopening. Better to wait a little longer and make sure it really is past the worst of it, than try to reopen and then have it get much worse.
Oh, and the US has hit 1 million known cases. Deaths are greater than 50,000 which is halfway to what the Orange one considers a "good job."
To put that in perspective, the death toll right now is pretty close to that of all US military losses in the entire Vietnam War.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Informative, albeit horrifying article on Trump's seizure of PPE and use of Presidential power to distribute aid to his allies:

https://nbcnews.com/politics/white-hous ... e-n1191236
WASHINGTON — In early March, Mike Bowen, the executive vice president of the medical mask manufacturer Prestige Ameritech, found the perfect way to drum up some federal business: He went on Steve Bannon's podcast, which is highly popular at the White House.

"If the government wants to throw some money at it, we can hire more people and build more machines," Bowen said during an appearance on the "War Room" podcast co-hosted by Bannon, who was the chief executive officer of Donald Trump's presidential 2016 campaign. "We're kind of out there on our own, and we are doing everything that we can possibly do on our own."

A month later, at the explicit request of the White House, Prestige Ameritech had a $9.5 million contract with the Federal Emergency Management Agency. It then won another deal with the state of Texas and was given 50 National Guard members, deployed by Republican Gov. Greg Abbott, to work shifts at its suburban Fort Worth manufacturing facility.

Bannon told NBC News that his team connected Bowen to Peter Navarro, a top economic and trade adviser to Trump, who, like Bowen and much of Trump's political base, has long been upset about the movement of U.S. factories to Mexico and Asia.

Prestige Ameritech's deal with FEMA is one of only two that NBC News could find in the history of the federal contracting database that says explicitly that a White House ordered it up — "directed by the White House," according to the notes entered by a contracting officer.

"There's a big operation over there doing sourcing," Bannon said. "Navarro and all the guys listen to the show every day."

For the White House, the episode is a perfect example of how the president's coronavirus task force cut through red tape to reward a domestic manufacturer at a time when supplies are limited and the task of obtaining them from overseas is fraught with rapidly rising trade barriers and the risk of receiving substandard products.

But it also shows something else: how Trump and his top aides have played favorites in awarding contracts and allocating scarce resources.

Using the unilateral authority of the White House, Trump and his aides have consolidated power in a period of national crisis, picking winners and losers based in part on personal relationships, ideological affinity and partisan loyalty.

Ultimately, that favoritism has created a two-track system of haves and have-nots in what Trump calls the "war" against the coronavirus, a model revealed in dozens of interviews that NBC News conducted with federal, state and local officials, health industry professionals, emergency response veterans working on the crisis and current and former White House officials.

Put simply, the fight for survival among businesses related to the COVID-19 fight — and for a slice of the billions of dollars going out the door — is about political influence.

Most of the decisions are made by members of Vice President Mike Pence's coronavirus task force, which works closely with White House senior adviser Jared Kushner's innovation team and a series of sub-task forces that are primarily charged with acquiring and distributing scarce goods. Because there are so many genuinely needy entities and there's so little to give, those decisions are zero-sum trade-offs, just like the awarding of a limited supply of federal contracts to the many businesses vying to take a piece of the action.

There's growing evidence that Trump and his aides are using his authority over both the contracting and allocation processes for political gain. It's easy to chalk that up to partisanship, but the record suggests that while Trump favors GOP allies the most, he is more interested in bringing politicians and businesses into his fold than in following the straight axis of the Republican-Democratic divide.

Much of the flexibility in who gets supplies comes from a secretive "adjudication" process in which senior political appointees have the power to circumvent formulas designed to apportion test kits, ventilators, masks, gloves, gowns and other personal protective equipment based on evolving needs.

"There's a lot of politics involved," said a person familiar with the adjudications. "Senior leadership from [Capitol] Hill can call up and say 'ship 500 ventilators' and 500 ventilators go out."

At the same time, front-line responders in big cities and in some Democratic states, from Phoenix to Detroit to New York, are scrambling to put together homemade gear because they can't get government-issued equipment and the masks, gloves and gowns they're trying to buy on the private market are often being delayed or rerouted. Most of the sources experienced in various aspects of emergency management who spoke to NBC News say the politicization of the disaster response is unprecedented in modern history.

Here are a few examples:

Key allies are rewarded: Sens. Cory Gardner, R-Colo., and Martha McSally, R-Ariz., two of their party's most politically vulnerable lawmakers, have been able to claim credit publicly for using their influence with Trump to secure ventilators for their states. Gov. Ron DeSantis, R-Fla., who presides over a state that is both Trump's official home and crucial to his re-election hopes, says the president has delivered everything he needs. Meanwhile, other big jurisdictions across the country say they are scrambling to find test kits and personal protective equipment.
The politics work as reward and punishment: Kushner has praised the president for being "very, very hands-on" in determining where goods are shipped, and Trump said over the weekend that he might withhold federal support for the states of governors who don't accede to his request that they loosen stay-at-home restrictions.
Those outside the circle are vulnerable: Last week, it took the intervention of a powerful Democratic House chairman to stop federal agents from seizing a shipment of personal protective equipment acquired privately by a Massachusetts hospital system. Frustrated state and municipal officials complain frequently — almost exclusively on the condition of anonymity to avoid hurting their prospects of getting future aid — about reports that expected shipments have been rerouted or seized by the federal government.
Some hard-hit states are left scrambling for White House workarounds: Two Democratic governors, J.B. Pritzker of Illinois and Gavin Newsom of California, as well as Republican Gov. Larry Hogan of Maryland, have cut deals with foreign suppliers to go around the White House's system. Some state-level officials say they have concluded that the White House's moves to corner the market on medical supplies has made it impossible for them to acquire what they need.
Senior administration officials say the acquisition and allocation systems are free from political influence, even as Trump talks openly about the importance of deference to him in the process.

"It's outrageous that the media would ask or even speculate that the resources being delivered by the federal government to the states is somehow based on politics," Judd Deere, a White House spokesman, said in a statement emailed to NBC News. "This is about saving lives, and the Trump administration has been working with governors and their teams since January on COVID-19 coordination. Every level of government needs to deliver data-driven solutions and that is what President Trump is doing in partnership."

But a federal government veteran of national emergency response said the influence coming from 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. is unparalleled.

"I've never seen anything directed by the White House like this before," said the source, who insisted on anonymity out of fear of retribution.

Even when Trump has delivered on requests from governors, senators and other politicians, the importance the president places on personal relationships — and the ways different officials play to that tendency — underscores the degree to which the allocation of goods isn't based purely on need.

Big and small decisions on allocating hard-to-get testing kits, protective equipment for emergency workers and lifesaving ventilators are often made based on the personal intervention of political heavyweights on the coronavirus task force — including Pence and Kushner — according to federal officials familiar with the process.

At one point in early April, Trump called Kushner, Kushner said at a White House briefing, and told him that friends were relaying concerns that public hospitals in New York didn't have enough protective gear. Kushner called the CEO of the city's public hospital group to confirm what was needed and then had the coronavirus task force's top supply-chain official ship a month's supply of masks.

"The president has been very, very hands-on in this," Kushner said at the time.

In late March, Pence, a former governor of Indiana, spoke to his successor, Republican Eric Holcomb, by phone, Holcomb said at a news conference later that day. Holcomb said he needed more tests for the state, where the federal government's focus on hotter spots like New York meant lab workers weren't able to get diagnostic equipment. The number of tests available to Indiana has expanded rapidly since then, and the state has loosened its restrictions to allow families of covered workers to get tested.

"I was able to share with him what our concerns were," Holcomb said at the news conference.

Last week, Trump suggested that he would use the threat of holding back support for states if governors don't abide by his request to open up their economies by relaxing stay-at-home rules.

"They need the federal government not only for funding — and I'm not saying take it away — but they need it for advice," he said. "They'll need, maybe, equipment that we have. We have a tremendous stockpile that we're in the process of completing. We're in a very good position."

From the perspective of the White House, Pence's task force and Kushner's innovation team, working with various sub-task forces, have acted as catalysts to get supplies to the recipients who really need them as quickly as possible. They have used their powers to subvert governors and other officials who are claiming they need more than they really do, according to a senior administration official who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal matters.

But critics at various levels of government describe a new system that is neither fair nor transparent — and one that has enabled Trump to consolidate power. At the state and local levels, the White House often creates new complications in the search for protective equipment.

First, the federal government has driven up prices on equipment and outbid state, county and city governments, as well as hospital systems, on the open market — a move that wasted the time of smaller bidders and increased costs for anything they could get.

Then, with scarce goods in hand, Pence's task force and Kushner's innovation team struck deals with U.S. suppliers and distributors that give the White House discretion to route and reroute goods at a moment's notice, which has resulted in state and local officials' complaining that their shipments are being intercepted by the federal government.

And, most recently, Trump and his Chinese counterparts have initiated matching export restrictions on personal protective equipment, choking off an alternative source of needed goods. After Trump issued an executive order to block U.S. companies from sending protective equipment overseas without the federal government's assent, China imposed a new rule requiring one of its agencies to inspect equipment for quality control before it can be shipped.

That has left millions of items sitting in U.S. warehouses in China, The Wall Street Journal reported last week.

"We're essentially f-----," said an official who is leading his state's supply-chain effort.

Pritzker, who has clashed publicly with Trump, is one of several governors who have decided they can't rely on Trump to help — or even to stay out of the way.

He quietly chartered flights bearing masks and gloves from China to Chicago to prevent Trump from interceding, according to the Chicago Sun-Times.

"The supply chain has been likened to the Wild West, and once you have purchased supplies, ensuring they get to the state is another Herculean feat," Pritzker press secretary Jordan Abudayyeh told the paper.

Hogan of Maryland, a rare Republican who has criticized the White House response effort, recently struck a deal with South Korea to provide a half-million coronavirus test kits. Despite Trump's admonition that states should find their own supplies, the president criticized Hogan for the move, which took supplies off the market.

"If there were an easier way, we certainly would have taken it," Hogan said Tuesday on MSNBC's "Morning Joe." "The president said the governors are on their own and they should focus on getting their own tests, and that's exactly what we did."

Increasingly, the task force and the innovation team are communicating directly with mayors and business leaders and undermining governors and other politicians who say they aren't getting what they need. For example, when Louisiana Gov. John Bel Edwards, a Democrat, said at a news conference this month that hospitals in the state needed more ventilators to help COVID-19 sufferers breathe, Trump aides quickly called the CEOs of the state's most prominent hospital systems. Hours later, at his own news conference, Trump said the hospital chiefs "feel that they currently have enough ventilators."

He thanked Warner Thomas, the CEO of Ochsner Health, Louisiana's largest nonprofit hospital system, and said he would deliver 230,000 surgical gowns. Trump said he would honor a request made by Thomas in place of the ventilators sought by the governor.

Trump and his top aides are particularly proud of a series of partnerships they have formed under the name Project Airbridge, which has laid claim to much of the available personal protective equipment around the world.

In broad terms, the project works like this: The federal government underwrites the cost of shipping freight on FedEx, UPS and other private air carriers, usually from factories operated by U.S. companies in Asia, so they can be distributed by U.S. companies. Under the agreements, the federal government gets to put part of the shipment in the Strategic National Stockpile and direct where half of the companies' remaining goods go, while the companies deliver the rest to the customers of their choice.

"It's actually been an amazing story, the cross-supply-chain collaboration that's gone on between otherwise competitors," said Blair Childs, a senior vice president of Premier Inc., a health consulting firm that has been involved in the project.

By gaining the ability to direct half of the goods on the planes, political officials have even more discretion in directing or diverting shipments. State and local officials say they have little visibility into how the system works, often becoming acquainted with it when they see Trump congratulate a Republican senator in a tough race, like Gardner of Colorado, for securing ventilators or protective equipment, or when the company they bought items from informs them that the federal government laid claim to the stock at the last minute.

The federal contracting process is supposed to be devoid of political influence — so much so that there are prohibitions on contractors' making donations or expenditures in connection with federal elections. Typically, big contracts are bid out, and there's significant competition for federal dollars.

But in emergencies, there are workarounds to accelerate the process. The rules for competition can be waived, and vetting can be less strict. The unprecedented nature of the current crisis, in which emergency declarations have been made for more than 50 jurisdictions — all the states, plus the District of Columbia and some U.S. territories — means the bottom-up system of federal contracting has largely been turned on its head.

In the case of Prestige Ameritech, the $9.5 million contract was awarded without competition under a waiver for urgent and compelling needs that also requires agency officials to "request offers from as many potential sources as is practicable under the circumstances," according to federal contracting records and regulations.

But the White House wanted Prestige, according to notes in the contract, which is publicly available on government websites.

"The procurement of N95 Model 1860 Respirators is directed by the White House to protect New York hospital employees AND other hospitals throughout the United States from the potential biological harm from COVID-19 during emergency response services," the description of the contract requirement says. Oneko Dunbar, the Homeland Security Department official listed as the user who entered the contract, did not reply to NBC News' request to discuss the work.

On April 8, the day after the last modification to the deal, Texas authorities announced that they would be deploying members of the state's National Guard to work at Prestige Ameritech's headquarters. The company says it is the largest domestic surgical mask manufacturer and will now be able to produce 2 million masks a week.

Download the NBC News app for full coverage and alerts about the coronavirus outbreak

But turning soldiers into a private-sector labor force doesn't sit well with National Guard expert Dwight Stirling, who called the situation "disturbing" in an email to NBC News.

"Ordering service members to help a company make a product — even an important product like masks — upsets the delicate balance the Founders established for use of the military," said Stirling, CEO of the Law and Military Policy Center, who is a JAG officer in the California National Guard and a law professor at the University of Southern California. "Not only does the arrangement have the appearance of official endorsement, giving Prestige an unfair advantage over its competitors, it creates public confusion as to the role and mission of the military generally. Simply put, there are many other ways for Governor Abbott to increase mask production that don't involve directing service members to work on the factory floor."

In the only other agreement with a similar notation that NBC News could find in the 11 years or so of online disclosure of federal contracts, one that was first reported by ProPublica, the Trump White House was named in March as the authority seeking a $96 million deal with the Canadian company AirBoss of America. As ProPublica reported, the deal calls for the delivery of 100,000 respirators and filters to New York and other locations by July 31, and it isn't clear why the White House was eager to award the no-bid contract to the company.

Chris Bitsakakis, president and chief operating officer of AirBoss of America, said in a statement to NBC News that the coronavirus task force was just one of a long list of entities the company contacted to offer access to its respirator systems, purifiers and accessories.

"We reached out to groups including the WHO and the Pan American Health Organization, as well as the State Department, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases, HHS, FEMA, the FAA, the National Guard Bureau, and the White House Coronavirus Task Force, along with numerous other federal and state emergency agencies in the United States," Bitsakakis said. "A number of groups, both domestic and international, have responded with orders. The FEMA contract was awarded to our company because of our proven track record."

That may be true, but FEMA officials noted in the contract that the acquisition was "ordered by the White House."

Prestige Ameritech did not reply to NBC News' questions about its federal contract.

While White House officials say the disaster response has been apolitical, the actions they have taken and the words Trump and other Republican politicians have used strongly suggest that political relationships are a key factor in the distribution of equipment.

"Will be immediately sending 100 Ventilators to Colorado at the request of Senator Gardner!" Trump said in an April 8 tweet, referring to one of the handful of Republicans in danger of losing a seat in November.

The state isn't among the top dozen in per capita or overall infections or deaths from COVID-19, and it actually reduced its request for assistance from the federal government's Strategic National Stockpile. But at the time of Gardner's request, state officials believed FEMA had stepped in to stop 500 ventilators from going into the state — with the end result appearing as if FEMA had stopped Democratic Gov. Jared Polis' attempt to buy 500 ventilators from a private company while the president gave 100 back in the name of a Republican senator he is trying to help politically.

The position of the White House is that the data coming from states has been spotty and that requests don't always match need, according to senior administration officials familiar with the thinking of the president's team. They say a major effort is underway to allocate resources based on accurate information from lower levels of government and the private sector. But neither the coronavirus task force nor White House officials have made information about the state-by-state dispersal of resources available to the public.

Gardner's office did not respond to NBC News' request for an interview on his efforts to secure lifesaving equipment for his constituents.

Colorado's Republicans aren't the only ones crediting White House intervention for their state's supplies. McSally of Arizona, who has a tough matchup against former astronaut Mark Kelly in November, thanked Trump and Pence publicly for delivering on a request for ventilators.

"I spoke with @realDonaldTrump on Wednesday afternoon to request additional ventilators from the Strategic National Stockpile," McSally tweeted April 10. "Today, POTUS delivers with 100 ventilators headed to AZ. Thank you to President Trump and @VP for hearing our call."

During a time of scarcity, the routing of supplies in one direction means they aren't going somewhere else, and FEMA has priority over other customers under certain circumstances. Local officials in various parts of the country have complained that shipments they were expecting were either seized or rerouted by the federal government.

The city of Phoenix struggled for weeks to get a supply of protective equipment after ordering $4.2 million of goods in late March. Mayor Kate Gallego's communications director, Annie DeGraw, told NBC News on Wednesday night that the city has been taken care of for two or three weeks. But just last week, Phoenix's fire chief, Kara Kalbrenner, told NBC affiliate KPNX that Phoenix's order had been "hijacked" by federal authorities. In similar cases, state and municipal officials have been reluctant to discuss the topic because of their fear that doing so will harm their ability to secure help from the White House.

A FEMA spokesperson said the agency was "not seizing or taking personal protective equipment (PPE) from state or local governments, hospitals, or any entities who are lawfully engaged in transactions through which these resources are distributed."

"We take all accusations of seizure very seriously and support Attorney General Barr’s Hoarding and Price Gouging Task Force," the spokesperson said in a statement to NBC News. "If a hospital believes this has happened to them, it should be reported to the governor. If a governor believes that this has happened to their supplies, it should be reported to the FEMA Region. If a company decides to cancel on a state contract in favor of federal one, FEMA will work with the company and the state to resolve the matter in a way that best serves their people."

Whether it's the Justice Department's anti-hoarding unit stopping shipments or companies rerouting them at the behest of a White House task force with control over where much of the private distribution is directed through Project Airbridge, officials at the state and local levels remain deeply frustrated that they can't tell whether the administration is doing more to help or harm their efforts.

Even in the hardest-hit areas, the federal government's deals with distributors haven't led to more protective equipment arriving at hospitals, according to an industry consultant. That's evident from pictures of health professionals working in garbage bags and homemade masks.

"Something's not adding up," the consultant said.

In a letter published in the New England Journal of Medicine on April 17, Andrew Artenstein, the chief physician executive and chief academic officer at Baystate Health in Massachusetts, described the harrowing experience of going through a broker — and repelling the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security — to get masks for hospital workers.

"Hours before our planned departure, we were told to expect only a quarter of our original order. We went anyway, since we desperately needed any supplies we could get," Artenstein wrote. "Before we could send the funds by wire transfer, two Federal Bureau of Investigation agents arrived, showed their badges, and started questioning me. No, this shipment was not headed for resale or the black market."

Artenstein persuaded the agents to let his team take the boxes of masks back with them, but he learned that the Homeland Security Department was "still considering redirecting our PPE." It took the intervention of Rep. Richard Neal, D-Mass., the powerful chairman of the tax-writing Ways and Means Committee, to put the question to rest.

"Once he was in touch with the various federal agencies, they were accommodating and released the equipment to Baystate," Dylan Opalich, a spokeswoman for Neal, said in an email to NBC News.

Meanwhile, in Florida — a state that is crucial to Trump's plans for winning re-election — DeSantis has had difficulty with such "gray market" transactions, but he hasn't had a problem getting what he wants from the administration. Last week, he said Florida was due to receive 1 million N95 masks from the federal government after he sought help from the president's team.

"That's been a real, real problem," DeSantis said of finding quality goods at a reasonable price on the open market, "but I'm glad we were able to work this out with the White House."

Allen reported from Washington, McCausland reported from New York and Farivar reported from Oakland, California.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by aerius »

One of my doc friends linked the following info. This is why covid-19 patients are stroking out and having heart attacks.
COVID-19 and blood clots: the evidence, and why it's important for everything from to how to manage a ventilator, to what makes COVID unique. Today we'll look at:

- A new series of autopsies from Italy showing lungs full of clots [resulting in the equivalent of a middle school dance: oxygen on one wall, blood on the other]
- A new clinical term: Pulmonary Intravascular Coagulopathy, which might be the calling card of COVID
- How elevated the clotting risk really is in COVID, and how some patients are basically reverse hemophiliacs
- A paper comparing SARS-1 to our SARS-CoV-2 for clots [the sequel is always worse]
- And lastly: what this means for mechanically ventilated patients, and how it can explain the 'Not Normal ARDS' physiology

ITALIAN AUTOPSIES SHOW LUNGS WHERE BLOOD AND AIR CAN'T MEET

Investigators performed a series of 38 autopsies in Milan and Bergamo (1). The findings reinforced the smaller American series already published: the smallest capillaries are full of fibrin thrombi (clots), which significantly restrict the ability of oxygen to diffuse across into red blood cells- which is the entire purpose of the lungs. If blood and oxygen aren't meeting up, get a new DJ because the party is pretty much a bust.

Of the patients who had an important clotting factor measured, the values were screamingly high: more than 10x the normal range. 33/38 patients showed the fibrin thrombi, which is a much elevated rate over typical ARDS patients. [The picture shows a thrombus from their series, with the virus next door.]

THE CLOTTING IS SO UNIQUE, COVID HAS COINED A NEW TERM: PULMONARY INTRAVASCULAR COAGULOPATHY

Researchers in Ireland observed a 3-fold higher risk of clotting in a series of 83 mainly Caucasian patients, versus the Chinese data (2). (The risk of clotting is related to race: people of African descent are the highest risk, followed by Caucasians, with Asians the least likely (3)). Very importantly: the patients did not develop clots absolutely everywhere (a process called DIC, disseminated intravascular coagulopathy, which occurs in a wide array of critical illnesses). Instead, the deadly coagulation occurs predominantly in the lungs.

Why? They hypothesize that since the ACE-2 receptors are on the lining of blood vessels ("endothelium") as well as in lung cells, the teeming, extra-high viral loads in the lungs spillover into the endothelium and infect it, too. That makes the endothelial cells upset, and kicks off an inflammatory cascade which results in clotting.

ICU PATIENTS MAKE CLOTS EVEN WHEN ON PROPHYLAXIS, AND SOME ARE 'REVERSE HEMOPHILIACS'

It's no news that patients in ICUs are prone to making blood clots. They're in bed and not moving around (DON'T JUDGE, IT'S BEEN A HARD MONTH FOR US ALL), and they're ill, with numerous pro-coagulable factors released in their bloodstream. For that reason, most ICU patients are treated for clots before they can develop (typically, with Low Molecular Weight Heparin).

For COVID, everyone started anti-coagulating after a study in China (4), which showed that 25% of a series of 81 patients developed deep venous thromboses (DVTs), and 40% of those patients died- a rate of clotting which is 2x normal. In France (5) 26 patients were screened for DVTs with ultrasound in: 69% were positive, even though many of them were already on anticoagulation at the low 'preventive' dose. So they stepped up therapy to TREATMENT anti-coagulation, not just prevention and still- they still clotted. 56% developed DVTs, and 6 patients had an even more worrisome pulmonary embolism. In the Netherlands (6) researchers observed a rare phenomenon in COVID-19 patients: heparin resistance, where patients need an ultra-high dose of heparin to prevent clotting. They found that the virus caused the patients to make very high levels of Factor VIII (which is the same Factor many hemophiliacs are missing).

SARS-CoV-2 IS THE MICHAEL BAY OF CLOTTING

Have you ever watched a bloated, meaningless, sequel? Where they took all the good ideas from the original and said "this but more!"? That's the new coronavirus re: clotting. The original SARS definitely caused a similar picture (small clots in the vessels of the lungs, DVTs). About 30% of the patients in the largest series made DVTs, and there were five strokes. Compare that to the French data above (56% on therapy). The data is scantier on MERS, but it seemed to be more garden-variety DIC (7).

VERY INTERESTING, I GUESS, BUT ALSO, WHY IS THIS IMPORTANT?

I see you looking at your watch, trying politely to leave. Congrats! You made it to the end of the post! It's important because it validates all those countless clinical observations that "this isn't normal ARDS." I posted earlier about Dr. Cameron Kyle-Siddell's videos- the "is it like HAPE?" guy- and while no, it's not like HAPE, he was asking good questions. There are some very encouraging early anecdotes of doctors using this information to treat desperately failing patients, patients maxed out on the ventilator, with ANTI-COAGULATION (specifically, tPA) as a a way to open up those capillaries and let oxygen and the blood meet, marry, and diffuse.

SOURCES
1) Luca Carsana, Aurelio Sonzogni, Ahmed Nasr, Roberta Rossi, Alessandro Pellegrinelli, Pietro Zerbi, Roberto Rech, Riccardo Colombo, Spinello Antinori, Mario Corbellino, Massimo Galli, Emanuele Catena, Antonella Tosoni, Andrea Gianatti, Manuela Nebuloni. "Pulmonary post-mortem findings in a large series of COVID-19 cases from Northern Italy." PRE-PRINT on Medrxiv.org.

2) Fogarty H, Townsend L, Ni Cheallaigh C, Bergin C, Martin-Loeches I, Browne P, Bacon CL, Gaule R, Gillett A, Byrne M, Ryan K, O'Connell N, O'Sullivan JM, Conlan N, O' Donnell JS. COVID-19 Coagulopathy in Caucasian patients. Br J Haematol. 2020 Apr 24.

3) White RH, Keenan CR. Effects of race and ethnicity on the incidence of venous thromboembolism. Thromb Res. 2009;123 Suppl 4:S11-7.

4) Cui S, Chen S, Li X, Liu S, Wang F. Prevalence of venous thromboembolism in patients with severe novel coronavirus pneumonia. J Thromb Haemost. 2020 Apr 9.

5) Llitjos JF, Leclerc M, Chochois C, Monsallier JM, Ramakers M, Auvray M, Merouani K. High incidence of venous thromboembolic events in anticoagulated severe COVID-19 patients. J Thromb Haemost. 2020 Apr 22.

6) Beun R, Kusadasi N, Sikma M, Westerink J, Huisman A. Thromboembolic events and apparent heparin resistance in patients infected with SARS-CoV-2. Int J Lab Hematol. 2020 Apr 20.

7) Giannis D, Ziogas IA, Gianni P. Coagulation disorders in coronavirus infected patients: COVID-19, SARS-CoV-1, MERS-CoV and lessons from the past. J Clin Virol. 2020 Apr 9;127:104362.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by whackadoodle »

aerius wrote: 2020-04-27 06:11pm
whackadoodle wrote: 2020-04-27 03:56pm Oh, and as for Georgia's "lockdown"? A lot of places were declared essential, compared to other states.
Would it be fair to say that it's a lockdown in name only, and pretty much a token effort?

IF this is the case, reopening the state shouldn't cause a giant spike in cases since not that much was actually done to suppress the spread in the first place.
It wasn't just a token effort. A lot of places did close. However, Georgia had a much broader list of essential businesses and positions than, say, California. In addition to the grocery stores, pharmacies, hospitals, etc., anything automotive was open, as were liquor stores, and a few others that slip my mind at this time. In addition, a number of employees were deemed essential in places that were closed, like IT. I'm in that boat. Hey, somebody has to make sure everyone else can telecommute.

So, I'm on the road twice a day during the work week. Traffic is down a lot, but there is still traffic. Thing is, traffic was down before the state-wide SIP order. A lot of businesses closed their offices before the state-wide order. A number of restaurants went to dine-in only before the order, and a lot of them are staying that way even though they don't have to.

So, even with the state "opening", there is still much less activity than before. Bear in mind, there has been very little enforcement of the SIP order. I have a letter of marque from work deeming me essential, but I haven't need it. Some businesses that aren't on the essential list remained open anyway. If cops see a large gathering, they'll bust it up, but that's about it in most places.

Still, nothing like what Gavin Nuisance implemented in California. Looking ate their numbers from yesterday compared to Georgia's, I don't see much of a difference. Both states have a CFR of 4%. Georgia does have a higher percentage of positive tests, so at first glance it looks like hard lock-down is more effective than soft lock-down, but until recently, you practically had to be at death's door to get a test. I probably had bat AIDS back in March, but my doctor wouldn't see any respiratory patients in person. I did a teledoc through my insurance company, where upon hearing my symptoms, declared it a cold. I called my boss to let him know it was a cold, and he said nope, you sound like hell, stay home. So, I got a paid vacay. I ran a light fever for about a day, along with a bad cough and sore throat. Thing is, it took me 3 weeks to shake that cough. I was the last person in my household to get it, the first case being in early February.

Tl;dr, I don't think that there is much of a difference between harsh SIP vs soft SIP. We need to get to the testing and contact tracing stage soon. As it is, the economic effects, supply chain failures are going to be far worse than bat AIDS.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by MKSheppard »

I haven't been doing this for like a week or so now; since....meh.

Anyway lets check back in

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Social distancing seems to have worked in the USA.

A few weeks ago, our deaths per million numbers were tracking CLOSELY with Spain's -- to the point where I estimated that based off growth patterns, if we hit Spain's 14/per million death rate, we'd be seeing 4,000+ dead a day.

Fortunately, for us; we managed to smash the curve the best out of all the West -- we're holding to about 7 to 8 per million, which is about 2,200~ dead a day at worst.

Now for the bad news.

Data from Spain and Italy, who "got there" way before us, shows that once you pass the peak killing period, it's not a sudden sharp drop off like the Chinese data indicates -- it's more of a long slow, linear slope downwards.

Pulling out a ruler, and extrapolating forwards based off the Italy trendline downwards -- Italy won't hit the 1 per million death rate (about 60 dead a day) until day 92 for italy, which is around 23 May.

Assuming we have peaked now -- we won't hit 1 per million death rate (about 300 dead a day) until day 90 for us, which is about 29 May.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Canada's coronavirus relief plan is turning out to be a complete cluster fuck:

https://globalnews.ca/news/6873370/cerb ... da-letter/
David Ostrum is among many Canadians who have been caught in a bureaucratic Catch-22 right in the middle of the novel coronavirus pandemic.

The Victoria, B.C., cab driver says it’s been impossible to contact the federal government to provide the additional information Ottawa says its needs to keep his Canada Emergency Response Benefit (CERB) payments flowing.

In Canada’s two-tiered CERB system, Canadians who applied for the federal benefit through Service Canada rather than the Canada Revenue Agency must file bi-weekly employment insurance reports to keep receiving payments of $500 per week.

Ostrum, however, hasn’t been able to keep up his filing requirements as he says Service Canada is still processing his first report. The government says it needs more information from him, but the only way to provide it is by calling phone lines that are constantly jammed, he says.

Adding to his frustration, Ostrum recently received a Service Canada email prompting him to submit his EI reports.

“Our records indicate that you have not completed reports to show that you are eligible to continue getting paid,” the email reads. The message also suggests Ostrum contact the 1-800 number he says he’s dialled more than 1,500 times in the past few weeks without ever being able to speak to an agent to provide whatever missing information the government needs.

Receiving the email, Ostrum said via email, added “insult to injury.”

“Obviously, that’s just an automatically generated email,” Ostrum told Global News over the phone.

But the email is just one more indication that part of the CERB program isn’t living up to Ottawa’s mission to get emergency aid out fast to those in need, Ostrum said.

“I certainly do appreciate the fact that they’re giving us $500 a week,” Ostrum said. But the government must also make sure that everyone who’s entitled to it is able to get it, he added.

Ostrum is one of several CERB applicants who told Global News they received a Service Canada email reminder about filing their EI reports, something they say they currently have no way of doing.

Many Canadians who experienced issues with their EI reporting have been instructed to contact Service Canada via telephone lines that they say are constantly clogged, with no other means of getting in touch with the government, according to several interviews conducted with Global News.

The CERB provides $2,000 every four weeks for up to 16 weeks to Canadians who have lost most or all of their income due to the COVID-19 pandemic.

Those who applied for the CERB through the CRA are required to re-apply for the benefit once for each four-week period. But those who have signed up through the EI system, like Ostrum, must submit more detailed bi-weekly reports confirming they are still eligible for the income support, just as they normally would to continue to receive EI.

Employment and Social Development Canada (ESDC) has told Global News that as of April 9, it has updated EI systems to no longer display the message that prompted clients to call Service Canada. It is unclear, however, what this means for those whose predicament predates the government’s fix.

“Further analysis is ongoing to address any outstanding cases that may have been held due to this issue,” ESDC said via email.

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Many who applied for the CERB via the EI system are worried about making ends meet as their benefits are held up along with their bi-weekly reports. Others are concerned about not being able to communicate to the government that their employment situation has changed.

In Ottawa, Astrid Sandoval, a contract worker, says she initially applied for EI the week of March 23 after losing all her weekly hours amid the health emergency. But after two weeks she says she has resumed working on a reduced schedule.

Sandoval, however, says she hasn’t been able to update the government on her situation because she never received a letter from Service Canada with the four-digit access code every applicant needs to file EI reports.

Sandoval also recently received the automated email from Service Canada urging her to file her reports.

Sandoval, Ostrum and several others told Global News that their calls to Service Canada are usually immediately cut off. On the rare occasions when they’ve been able to get through and provide their social insurance number through an automated phone system, the call still cuts off right when they are supposed to be transferred to an agent.

Sandoval said she is grateful for the federal emergency benefit and was impressed with the speed with which she received an initial CERB deposit of $2,000.

Canadians who applied for the CERB through Service Canada and are deemed eligible for the benefit receive a first payment of $2,000, ESDC told Global News. However, they must file employment reports to continue to receive the benefit.

When it comes to followup payments, “I think that they should do something a little bit more efficient,” Sandoval said. She wonders whether the government couldn’t set up an online system to obtain the EI access code, without the need for paper mail or calling overwhelmed government phone centres.

Ostrum thinks the government should stop demanding detailed information from those who apply for the CERB through the EI system, as the government already does for those who receive the benefit through the CRA.

CRA applicants must only submit their SIN and contact information to obtain payments, along with an auto-certification that they are eligible for the emergency income support.

The CRA has said it will check applicants’ CERB eligibility at a later date, adding that those who don’t qualify will have to pay the money back.

Lior Samfiru, a Toronto-based employment lawyer, said the government should avoid imposing “unreasonable conditions” on some CERB applicants but not others.

“It’s not enough that the government pay the same amounts to everyone who qualifies for the CERB. The process must be the same as well,” he said.
As someone who has experienced some of these issues myself... yeah.

I'm increasingly thinking I'm just not going to bother and just hope I can find an online job until my old job reopens (even though I appear to qualify for CERB). Of course, this is likely the intent- make so many hoops to jump through that fewer people get what they're due.

You know, we could solve this all very easily by just sending everyone with a social insurance number a check for 500 dollars every week, ie UBI. But that would be simple, and it might result in dirty poor people actually getting some money, and we can't have that, can we? :wanker:
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by J »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2020-04-28 02:55pm You know, we could solve this all very easily by just sending everyone with a social insurance number a check for 500 dollars every week, ie UBI. But that would be simple, and it might result in dirty poor people actually getting some money, and we can't have that, can we? :wanker:
My junior school age daughters will really love that. :lol:
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Zaune »

J wrote: 2020-04-28 05:14pmMy junior school age daughters will really love that. :lol:
Give half to their parent or guardian, put the rest in trust until they're 18 then?
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Apparently Moscow Mitch is pushing for the next coronavirus bill to include liability protection for businesses so they can't be sued for opening up and exposing their customers and employees to coronavirus. Because of course he is.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by MKSheppard »

J wrote: 2020-04-28 05:14pmMy junior school age daughters will really love that. :lol:
Wait, Jaerius reproduced? :shock: :luv: :angelic:
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by MKSheppard »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2020-04-28 05:45pm Apparently Moscow Mitch is pushing for the next coronavirus bill to include liability protection for businesses so they can't be sued for opening up and exposing their customers and employees to coronavirus. Because of course he is.
*sighs*

Some form of liability protection is required. Otherwise in today's litigious environment, nothing will happen.

I'm fine with reasonable liability protection - i.e. as long as employer has provided you with heavy supplies of PPE (gloves, sanitizer, masks) and taken precautions to limit spread, like if it's an assembly line, shutting down half the stations so that people are twice as far away from each other, etc.
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong

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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by The Romulan Republic »

MKSheppard wrote: 2020-04-28 05:56pm
The Romulan Republic wrote: 2020-04-28 05:45pm Apparently Moscow Mitch is pushing for the next coronavirus bill to include liability protection for businesses so they can't be sued for opening up and exposing their customers and employees to coronavirus. Because of course he is.
*sighs*

Some form of liability protection is required. Otherwise in today's litigious environment, nothing will happen.

I'm fine with reasonable liability protection - i.e. as long as employer has provided you with heavy supplies of PPE (gloves, sanitizer, masks) and taken precautions to limit spread, like if it's an assembly line, shutting down half the stations so that people are twice as far away from each other, etc.
If they require any of those things, I'll be surprised.

In other news, COVID-19 has now officially killed more Americans than the Vietnam War.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by whackadoodle »

whackadoodle wrote: 2020-04-28 10:43am
aerius wrote: 2020-04-27 06:11pm
whackadoodle wrote: 2020-04-27 03:56pm Oh, and as for Georgia's "lockdown"? A lot of places were declared essential, compared to other states.
Would it be fair to say that it's a lockdown in name only, and pretty much a token effort?

IF this is the case, reopening the state shouldn't cause a giant spike in cases since not that much was actually done to suppress the spread in the first place.
It wasn't just a token effort. A lot of places did close. However, Georgia had a much broader list of essential businesses and positions than, say, California. In addition to the grocery stores, pharmacies, hospitals, etc., anything automotive was open, as were liquor stores, and a few others that slip my mind at this time. In addition, a number of employees were deemed essential in places that were closed, like IT. I'm in that boat. Hey, somebody has to make sure everyone else can telecommute.

So, I'm on the road twice a day during the work week. Traffic is down a lot, but there is still traffic. Thing is, traffic was down before the state-wide SIP order. A lot of businesses closed their offices before the state-wide order. A number of restaurants went to dine-in only before the order, and a lot of them are staying that way even though they don't have to.

So, even with the state "opening", there is still much less activity than before. Bear in mind, there has been very little enforcement of the SIP order. I have a letter of marque from work deeming me essential, but I haven't need it. Some businesses that aren't on the essential list remained open anyway. If cops see a large gathering, they'll bust it up, but that's about it in most places.

Still, nothing like what Gavin Nuisance implemented in California. Looking ate their numbers from yesterday compared to Georgia's, I don't see much of a difference. Both states have a CFR of 4%. Georgia does have a higher percentage of positive tests, so at first glance it looks like hard lock-down is more effective than soft lock-down, but until recently, you practically had to be at death's door to get a test. I probably had bat AIDS back in March, but my doctor wouldn't see any respiratory patients in person. I did a teledoc through my insurance company, where upon hearing my symptoms, declared it a cold. I called my boss to let him know it was a cold, and he said nope, you sound like hell, stay home. So, I got a paid vacay. I ran a light fever for about a day, along with a bad cough and sore throat. Thing is, it took me 3 weeks to shake that cough. I was the last person in my household to get it, the first case being in early February.

Tl;dr, I don't think that there is much of a difference between harsh SIP vs soft SIP. We need to get to the testing and contact tracing stage soon. As it is, the economic effects, supply chain failures are going to be far worse than bat AIDS.
Nevermind. Drove home early today for a virtual IEP. All of the traffic @1pm, all of the shit is open. Jewelry shops, consignment shops, weave stores ( they never closed, though. ) Burger King loaded with dine-in, McDonalds loaded with dine-in, Chik-fil-La, Zaxbys and Bojangles drive-through only.

So much fun will be had. #SteepenTheSpread. Also, more accusations of #DipshitKemp trying to kill #BlackFolk for political purposes by national outlets.

Good times.

Glad I'm able to lock it down for several years if necessary; food, water, money ammo and allies.

This is going to be so much suck.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by mr friendly guy »

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science ... china-gene
Coronavirus outbreak in France did not come directly from China, gene-tracing scientists say
Researchers conclude that the virus was circulating undetected in France in February
Findings highlight the difficulties governments face in tracing the source of coronavirus outbreaks

Researchers in France have carried out genetic analysis and found that the dominant types of the viral strains in the country did not come from China or Italy. Photo: APResearchers in France have carried out genetic analysis and found that the dominant types of the viral strains in the country did not come from China or Italy. Photo: AP
Researchers in France have carried out genetic analysis and found that the dominant types of the viral strains in the country did not come from China or Italy. Photo: AP
The coronavirus outbreak in France was not caused by cases imported from China, but from a locally circulating strain of unknown origin, according to a new study by French scientists at the Institut Pasteur in Paris.
Genetic analysis showed that the dominant types of the viral strains in France belonged to a clade – or group with a common ancestor – that did not come from China or Italy, the earliest hotspot in Europe.
“The French outbreak has been mainly seeded by one or several variants of this clade … we can infer that the virus was silently circulating in France in February,” said researchers led by Dr Sylvie van der Werf and Etienne Simon-Loriere in a non-peer reviewed paper released on bioRxiv.org last week.
The Covid-19 pandemic has infected more than 128,000 people in France and caused more than 23,000 deaths.
France detected the virus in late January, before any other country in Europe. A few patients with a travel history that included China’s Hubei province were sampled on January 24 and tested positive.

The French government took quick and decisive measures to trace contacts of the infected people and shut down the chance of further infection.
However, these strains were not found in patients tested after the initial imported cases, suggesting “the quarantine imposed on the initial Covid-19 cases in France appears to have prevented local transmission”, the researchers said.

The Pasteur institute collected samples from more than 90 other patients across France and found the strains all came from one genetic line. Strains following this unique path of evolution had so far only been detected in Europe and the Americas.

The earliest sample in the French clade was collected on February 19 from a patient who had no history of travel and no known contact with returned travellers.
Several patients had recently travelled to other European countries, the United Arab Emirates, Madagascar and Egypt but there was no direct evidence that they contracted the disease in these destinations.
To the researchers’ surprise, some of the later strains collected were genetically older – or closer to the ancestral root – than the first sample in this clade.

A possible explanation, according to the authors, was that local transmission had been occurring in France for some time without being detected by health authorities.
The French government may have missed detecting the transmission. According to the researchers, a large proportion of those patients might have had mild symptoms or none at all.
The researchers also found that three sequences later sampled in Algeria were closely related to those in France, suggesting that travellers from France might have introduced the virus to the African country and caused an outbreak.

Benjamin Neuman, professor and chair of biological sciences with the Texas A&M University-Texarkana, said the French strains might have come from Belgium, where some sequences most closely related to the original strain from China were clustered.
“Since the earliest European strains of [the coronavirus] Sars-CoV-2 seem to be associated with Belgium, the idea that the virus spread from Belgium to both Italy and France at around the same time seems plausible, as this paper contends,” he said.
France is the latest in a growing number of countries and areas where no direct link between China and local outbreaks could be established.

Researchers in France have carried out genetic analysis and found that the dominant types of the viral strains in the country did not come from China or Italy. Photo: APResearchers in France have carried out genetic analysis and found that the dominant types of the viral strains in the country did not come from China or Italy. Photo: AP
Researchers in France have carried out genetic analysis and found that the dominant types of the viral strains in the country did not come from China or Italy. Photo: AP
The coronavirus outbreak in France was not caused by cases imported from China, but from a locally circulating strain of unknown origin, according to a new study by French scientists at the Institut Pasteur in Paris.
Genetic analysis showed that the dominant types of the viral strains in France belonged to a clade – or group with a common ancestor – that did not come from China or Italy, the earliest hotspot in Europe.
“The French outbreak has been mainly seeded by one or several variants of this clade … we can infer that the virus was silently circulating in France in February,” said researchers led by Dr Sylvie van der Werf and Etienne Simon-Loriere in a non-peer reviewed paper released on bioRxiv.org last week.
The Covid-19 pandemic has infected more than 128,000 people in France and caused more than 23,000 deaths.
France detected the virus in late January, before any other country in Europe. A few patients with a travel history that included China’s Hubei province were sampled on January 24 and tested positive.
The Covid-19 pandemic has infected more than 128,000 people in France and caused more than 23,000 deaths. Photo: AFP
The Covid-19 pandemic has infected more than 128,000 people in France and caused more than 23,000 deaths. Photo: AFP
The French government took quick and decisive measures to trace contacts of the infected people and shut down the chance of further infection.
However, these strains were not found in patients tested after the initial imported cases, suggesting “the quarantine imposed on the initial Covid-19 cases in France appears to have prevented local transmission”, the researchers said.
CORONAVIRUS UPDATE
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The Pasteur institute collected samples from more than 90 other patients across France and found the strains all came from one genetic line. Strains following this unique path of evolution had so far only been detected in Europe and the Americas.
Singapore Covid-19 cases to rise as not all migrant workers being tested
28 Apr 2020

The earliest sample in the French clade was collected on February 19 from a patient who had no history of travel and no known contact with returned travellers.
Several patients had recently travelled to other European countries, the United Arab Emirates, Madagascar and Egypt but there was no direct evidence that they contracted the disease in these destinations.
To the researchers’ surprise, some of the later strains collected were genetically older – or closer to the ancestral root – than the first sample in this clade.

Spanish official cries reading names of health workers killed by coronavirus
A possible explanation, according to the authors, was that local transmission had been occurring in France for some time without being detected by health authorities.
The French government may have missed detecting the transmission. According to the researchers, a large proportion of those patients might have had mild symptoms or none at all.
The researchers also found that three sequences later sampled in Algeria were closely related to those in France, suggesting that travellers from France might have introduced the virus to the African country and caused an outbreak.
China says US politicians are lying as Trump calls for Covid-19 damages
29 Apr 2020

Benjamin Neuman, professor and chair of biological sciences with the Texas A&M University-Texarkana, said the French strains might have come from Belgium, where some sequences most closely related to the original strain from China were clustered.
“Since the earliest European strains of [the coronavirus] Sars-CoV-2 seem to be associated with Belgium, the idea that the virus spread from Belgium to both Italy and France at around the same time seems plausible, as this paper contends,” he said.
France is the latest in a growing number of countries and areas where no direct link between China and local outbreaks could be established.

The dominant strains in Russia and Australia, for instance, came from Europe and the United States, respectively, according to some studies.
These findings have drawn fire from some politicians who have tried to deflect domestic anger over their handling of the crisis by blaming China.
US President Donald Trump lashed out on social media after two separate teams in the US found the strains devastating New York came from Europe.

“So now the Fake News @nytimes is tracing the CoronaVirus origins back to Europe, NOT China. This is a first!” he tweeted on April 11, referring to a story about the studies in the The New York Times’ science section.
The findings also highlight the difficulties governments face in tracing the source of coronavirus outbreaks.
Less-developed countries may never know where their strains came from due to inadequate testing and sequencing capability.
India, for example, has released the genetic sequence of fewer than 40 samples to the public so far, a small number considering its huge population.

Researchers in France have carried out genetic analysis and found that the dominant types of the viral strains in the country did not come from China or Italy. Photo: APResearchers in France have carried out genetic analysis and found that the dominant types of the viral strains in the country did not come from China or Italy. Photo: AP
Researchers in France have carried out genetic analysis and found that the dominant types of the viral strains in the country did not come from China or Italy. Photo: AP
The coronavirus outbreak in France was not caused by cases imported from China, but from a locally circulating strain of unknown origin, according to a new study by French scientists at the Institut Pasteur in Paris.
Genetic analysis showed that the dominant types of the viral strains in France belonged to a clade – or group with a common ancestor – that did not come from China or Italy, the earliest hotspot in Europe.
“The French outbreak has been mainly seeded by one or several variants of this clade … we can infer that the virus was silently circulating in France in February,” said researchers led by Dr Sylvie van der Werf and Etienne Simon-Loriere in a non-peer reviewed paper released on bioRxiv.org last week.
The Covid-19 pandemic has infected more than 128,000 people in France and caused more than 23,000 deaths.
France detected the virus in late January, before any other country in Europe. A few patients with a travel history that included China’s Hubei province were sampled on January 24 and tested positive.
The Covid-19 pandemic has infected more than 128,000 people in France and caused more than 23,000 deaths. Photo: AFP
The Covid-19 pandemic has infected more than 128,000 people in France and caused more than 23,000 deaths. Photo: AFP
The French government took quick and decisive measures to trace contacts of the infected people and shut down the chance of further infection.
However, these strains were not found in patients tested after the initial imported cases, suggesting “the quarantine imposed on the initial Covid-19 cases in France appears to have prevented local transmission”, the researchers said.
CORONAVIRUS UPDATE
Get updates direct to your inbox
Email
SUBSCRIBE
By registering, you agree to our T&C and Privacy Policy
The Pasteur institute collected samples from more than 90 other patients across France and found the strains all came from one genetic line. Strains following this unique path of evolution had so far only been detected in Europe and the Americas.
Singapore Covid-19 cases to rise as not all migrant workers being tested
28 Apr 2020

The earliest sample in the French clade was collected on February 19 from a patient who had no history of travel and no known contact with returned travellers.
Several patients had recently travelled to other European countries, the United Arab Emirates, Madagascar and Egypt but there was no direct evidence that they contracted the disease in these destinations.
To the researchers’ surprise, some of the later strains collected were genetically older – or closer to the ancestral root – than the first sample in this clade.

Spanish official cries reading names of health workers killed by coronavirus
A possible explanation, according to the authors, was that local transmission had been occurring in France for some time without being detected by health authorities.
The French government may have missed detecting the transmission. According to the researchers, a large proportion of those patients might have had mild symptoms or none at all.
The researchers also found that three sequences later sampled in Algeria were closely related to those in France, suggesting that travellers from France might have introduced the virus to the African country and caused an outbreak.
China says US politicians are lying as Trump calls for Covid-19 damages
29 Apr 2020

Benjamin Neuman, professor and chair of biological sciences with the Texas A&M University-Texarkana, said the French strains might have come from Belgium, where some sequences most closely related to the original strain from China were clustered.
“Since the earliest European strains of [the coronavirus] Sars-CoV-2 seem to be associated with Belgium, the idea that the virus spread from Belgium to both Italy and France at around the same time seems plausible, as this paper contends,” he said.
France is the latest in a growing number of countries and areas where no direct link between China and local outbreaks could be established.

The dominant strains in Russia and Australia, for instance, came from Europe and the United States, respectively, according to some studies.
These findings have drawn fire from some politicians who have tried to deflect domestic anger over their handling of the crisis by blaming China.
US President Donald Trump lashed out on social media after two separate teams in the US found the strains devastating New York came from Europe.
Is this the next big hotspot for the ‘little flu’?
28 Apr 2020

“So now the Fake News @nytimes is tracing the CoronaVirus origins back to Europe, NOT China. This is a first!” he tweeted on April 11, referring to a story about the studies in the The New York Times’ science section.
The findings also highlight the difficulties governments face in tracing the source of coronavirus outbreaks.
Less-developed countries may never know where their strains came from due to inadequate testing and sequencing capability.
India, for example, has released the genetic sequence of fewer than 40 samples to the public so far, a small number considering its huge population.

Most of the strains sampled in 35 early cases came from clades that could be traced to Italy and Iran, with only a few from China, according to a recent study. But researchers were not able to track further because of the lack of data.
A scientist on the study, Dr Mukesh Thakur, of the Zoological Survey of India, said it was too early to rule out China as the source of outbreaks in India because the number of samples at hand was limited.
A 20-year-old student studying medicine in Wuhan, for instance, might have come in contact with many people on the way home before she was tested positive on January 30.
Thakur said local media reported that the Indian government quarantined 3,500 people possibly linked to three positive cases imported from Wuhan.
“God knows how many of them tested positive in the subsequent stages,” Thakur said in an email response to the Post’s queries on Tuesday.
Some prominent scientists, including Francis Collins, director of the US National Institutes of Health, said the virus might have been spreading quietly in humans for years, or even decades, without causing a detectable outbreak.

The virus had thus adapted well to the human body. Some genes regulating its binding to host cells were similar, or even identical, to those found in some other highly infectious human viruses, such as HIV and Ebola.
According to some estimates, the ancestor of Sars-CoV-2, the virus causing Covid-19, might have left bats between 50 and 70 years ago. A recent study by a team of geneticists in Oxford University estimated the first outbreak of the current pandemic could have occurred as early as September last year.
They found that the dominant strains circulating in China and Asia were genetically younger than some popular strains in the United States.
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