The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

Locked
User avatar
Zaune
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7504
Joined: 2010-06-21 11:05am
Location: In Transit
Contact:

Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Zaune »

I'm not sure if this thing is meant to be satire or not. I'm not sure it even matters whether or not it's meant to be satire anymore.

Image
"Congrats, everyone. We invented the Holy Roman Empire."
There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)


Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
-- fgalkin


Like my writing? Tip me on Patreon

I Have A Blog
User avatar
MKSheppard
Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
Posts: 29842
Joined: 2002-07-06 06:34pm

Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by MKSheppard »

OK So, according to WMAR-2 in Baltimore as of TUE Morning (4-28-2020) the count in Maryland was:

20,113 Confirmed Cases total
929 deaths (plus 87 pending probable but not confirmed)
1,528 currently hospitalized (977 acute care, 551 intensive care)

Back in FY2018, Maryland only had about 1,200~ critical care beds in the entire state.

Corona is basically responsible for 45% of all ICU beds in Maryland being full now -- and we don't know how bad they define "acute care" as being (we had about 7,000 acute care beds in all of Maryland in FY2018).

Checking (https://coronavirus.maryland.gov/) the following stats break down:

PG County: 5,496 cases; 195 dead
Montgomery: 4,003 cases; 201 dead
Baltimore County, 2,631 cases; 94 dead
Baltimore City: 1,977 cases; 83 dead

Breakdown by race:
Black: 7,432 cases, 365 deaths
Asian: 424 cases, 36 deaths
White: 4,708 cases, 362 deaths
Hispanic: 3,309 cases, 58 deaths
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong

"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
User avatar
loomer
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4260
Joined: 2005-11-20 07:57am

Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by loomer »

"Doctors keep their scalpels and other instruments handy, for emergencies. Keep your philosophy ready too—ready to understand heaven and earth. In everything you do, even the smallest thing, remember the chain that links them. Nothing earthly succeeds by ignoring heaven, nothing heavenly by ignoring the earth." M.A.A.A
bilateralrope
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6077
Joined: 2005-06-25 06:50pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by bilateralrope »

From NZ:

Benefit numbers exceed GFC - and worse to come
More people are on the Jobseeker benefit than at the height of the global financial crisis (GFC), and it’s going to get worse, one economist warns.

There are now 35.2 people on the Jobseeker benefit per 1000 compared to 34.6 at the peak of the GFC, or a total of 174,630.

Economist Shamubeel Eaqub said the potential impact of the Covid-19 pandemic on the workforce was concerning.

“We usually count unemployment in tens of thousands but I think we will count it in hundreds of thousands. But it’s very hard to tell how big it’s going to be.”

There would be three waves of redundancies, he said. The first was hitting now, as people were being laid off by businesses that did not expect to survive in the short term.

The second would be when the wage subsidy expired and businesses that had hoped to make it through realised they had to cut costs.

The third would be when the effect of a global recession hit New Zealand’s economy.

The Government has waived the standdown period for the Jobseeker benefit to help people who are suddenly out of work due to the impact of Covid-19.

Eaqub said an additional 200,000 out of work was a conservative estimate.

“I’m not expecting any recovery until 2021. It’s hard to see how this is going to get better quickly. “

He said the next couple of weeks would be critical as it became apparent what sort of level of activity New Zealand would stabilise at post-lockdown – whether that was a similar level to before or well below. China had returned from lockdown with activity 10 per cent down, he said.

Westpac chief economist Dominick Stephens said on Tuesday unemployment would peak at 9.5 per cent before a slow return to 5 per cent.

Brad Olsen, economist at Infometrics, said he expected unemployment to rise "considerably" in the coming months.

"At present, 59 per cent of the labour force is being supported by the wage subsidy, and I'd expect that a number of businesses won't remain viable as the impacts of Covid-19 continue to upend the business world."

Olsen said about 74 per cent of the workforce was operating at level three. About half the working age population was being supported through the benefit or wage subsidy, he said.

"There are still a number of businesses whose ability to survive will be an ongoing struggle.

"Double-digit unemployment now seems inevitable, but two questions remain: First, how much worse could it be, but more importantly, how long will the unemployment rate stay high?"

Government plans for retraining those out of work would be important to get the economy moving, Olsen said.
We all knew that the economic recovery is going to be rough. Now we have some numbers.
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Trump uses the Defense Production Act to classify meat processing plants overrun with COVID-19 as "critical infrastructure" and compel them to remain open:

https://cnn.com/2020/04/28/politics/def ... index.html
Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump signed an executive order under the Defense Production Act to compel meat processing plants to remain open amid the coronavirus pandemic.

Trump had highlighted the order during an Oval Office meeting with Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis that was opened up to reporters.
"We're going to sign an executive order today, I believe, and that'll solve any liability problems," Trump said on Tuesday.

The President signed the order after some companies, such as Tyson Foods, were considering only keeping 20% of their facilities open. The vast majority of processing plants could have shut down -- which would have reduced processing capacity in the country by as much as 80%, an official familiar with the order told CNN.

By signing the order, Trump declared these plants part of critical infrastructure in the US.

The administration is also working with the Department of Labor on issuing guidance about which employees who work at these meat processing facilities should remain home, including workers who are part of populations most vulnerable to the coronavirus.

When Trump announced the executive order, he also told reporters that his administration was working with Tyson Foods.

Tyson Foods spokesman Gary Mickelson wouldn't comment on the order because the company had not seen it, but said: "We can tell you our top priority remains the safety (of) our team members and plant communities while we work to continue fulfilling our role of feeding families across the country."

With many Americans staying home during the coronavirus, industry experts say demand for meat has increased. But some of the country's largest processing plants have been forced to cease operations temporarily after thousands of employees across the country have tested positive for the virus.

The situation has gotten so severe, meat processing executives warned, that the US meat supply could be at risk.

Meat, beef and pork production reached record highs in March, according to the US Agriculture Department. But earlier this month, the United Food and Commercial Workers International Union said at least 13 processing plants have closed over the past two months, resulting in a 25% reduction in pork slaughter capacity and 10% reduction in beef slaughter capacity.

The union also estimated Tuesday that 20 meatpacking and food processing workers have died so far.

For years, major meat processors have been ruthlessly tamping down on costs and increasing efficiencies.

According to the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, the industry's hazards include "high noise levels, dangerous equipment, slippery floors, musculoskeletal disorders, and hazardous chemicals."

But in addition to those dangers, efforts to speed up processing has led to workers standing closer together -- about three or four feet apart from each other while working.

Officials say that people should stand about six feet apart in order to maintain social distancing practices that could help prevent the spread of Covid-19.

Major meat processors such as Smithfield, Tyson and others say they've put measures in place, like temperature checks and plexiglass to encourage social distancing in some areas and to help keep their workers safe. But some workers say their employers aren't doing enough to protect them.

In March, the United Nations warned that the coronavirus pandemic threatened to disrupt food supply chains around the world.
"A protracted pandemic crisis could quickly put a strain on the food supply chains, a complex web of interactions involving farmers, agricultural inputs, processing plants, shipping, retailers and more," the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations said in a report.

North Carolina Democratic Rep. Alma Adams, who chairs the House Workplace Protections Subcommittee, said that the plants "should not reopen without unprecedented protections and safeguards for workers and livestock."

"(T)he Trump Administration shouldn't decide which workers will be safe and which workers will be in mortal danger," Adams said in a statement.

Iowa Republican Sen. Chuck Grassley praised the move on Twitter but noted the need to follow federal guidance to protect workers.

"Pres @realDonaldTrump is right 2use authority 2 keep open meat processing plants Its critical infrastructure 4 country's food supply chain As saying goes society is 9 meals away from food riots Fed govt shld help w PPE&testing/plants need 2follow CDC&OSHA guidance 2protect wrkers," he tweeted.

Trump has previously invoked the Defense Production Act during the pandemic to compel companies to produce or procure medical supplies and equipment, such as personal protective equipment and ventilators. It's also been used to prosecute sellers hoarding supplies and selling it at huge markups.

CNN's Danielle Wiener-Bronner, Jim Acosta, Ron McLean, Dianne Gallagher and Pamela Kirkland contributed to this report.
Meanwhile, I just heard on the TV that Ohio is telling workers they will not be eligible for unemployment benefits if they choose to stay home to protect themselves and others.

Maybe this has something to do with the fact that Ohio's unemployment fund is going broke?

https://daytondailynews.com/news/local/ ... 0AtqDEQnI/

Yeah, let's just let the states go bankrupt, Moscow Mitch.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
User avatar
madd0ct0r
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6259
Joined: 2008-03-14 07:47am

Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by madd0ct0r »

If that finding holds up, I almost certainly had it back in February (and brought it back to Wales).
Eurostar'd across france, Belgium, Netherlands and back for work. A week or two later had a nasty cold with one day off work due to fever. Three people in office ill the following week. Oops.
"Aid, trade, green technology and peace." - Hans Rosling.
"Welcome to SDN, where we can't see the forest because walking into trees repeatedly feels good, bro." - Mr Coffee
User avatar
Ace Pace
Hardware Lover
Posts: 8456
Joined: 2002-07-07 03:04am
Location: Wasting time instead of money
Contact:

Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Ace Pace »

Is their demography and medical background leading to that or am I missing something?
Brotherhood of the Bear | HAB | Mess | SDnet archivist |
User avatar
loomer
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4260
Joined: 2005-11-20 07:57am

Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by loomer »

Ace Pace wrote: 2020-04-29 03:46am
Is their demography and medical background leading to that or am I missing something?
It's a combination of living conditions (sanitation issues and large, multi-generational, multi-family dwellings) and messaging difficulties, mostly.
"Doctors keep their scalpels and other instruments handy, for emergencies. Keep your philosophy ready too—ready to understand heaven and earth. In everything you do, even the smallest thing, remember the chain that links them. Nothing earthly succeeds by ignoring heaven, nothing heavenly by ignoring the earth." M.A.A.A
User avatar
mr friendly guy
The Doctor
Posts: 11235
Joined: 2004-12-12 10:55pm
Location: In a 1960s police telephone box somewhere in Australia

Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by mr friendly guy »

https://www.ausdoc.com.au/news/govt-giv ... Wk5TIn0%3D
Govt given two options to escape COVID 19 - herd immunity isn’t one of them
More than 100 leading academics outlined the pros and cons of attempting to eliminate COVID-19 in Australia
3 minutes to read 29th April 2020By Geir O'Rourke
5

Bookmark
3
It was just one number in the tidal wave of statistics we have seen in recent times — but it is a reason for some hope.

Greg Hunt
Minister for Health Greg Hunt
Just one of the 12 COVID-19 cases detected nationally at the start of this week came through an unknown source of transmission, a strong sign that Australia is bringing the virus under control.

Or as Minister for Health Greg Hunt told reporters: “As as a country, we are not just flattening the curve but we are consolidating it, extending it and securing it."

If correct, then we face another big make-or-break choice in the strategic battle against the microscopic foe, the choice between the two possible pathways of return from COVID-19: allowing low-level transmission or pushing to eliminate it entirely.


PROMOTED
Simple, easy steps to transition patients from Lantus to Optisulin
Today, 124 of Australia’s leading academics — economists, ethicists, mathematicians, political scientists, infectious disease specialists, epidemiologists, social scientists — mapped out the pros and cons in a 200 page report.

Read more:

We've been lucky so far but coronavirus cases could still surge, say epidemiologists
GPs urged to download 'essential' COVID-19 tracing app
Herd immunity policy for COVID-19 'like eugenics'
They stress that elimination is now a real possibility within Australia, noting that the numbers are so good that any strategy of aiming for ‘herd immunity’, the policy option whose critics says involves the deliberate sacrifice of thousands of lives, should be removed from the table altogether and put through the shredder.

The report describes the approach, which would require the infection of 15 million people, as unconscionable.

"The disruption of healthcare, the lives lost, the inequalities of impact and the tragic consequences on society did not make this a viable option for Australia, as government has made clear."

For the expert report elimination — defined as the confirmed eradication of community transmission — is likely to have already been achieved in places like WA and the NT.

And even the main population and disease centres of Sydney, Brisbane and Melbourne are on track to get there by mid-June, helped along by near-90% compliance to social distancing rules and widespread testing.

But the strategy can only work if authorities wait for new local cases to fall to zero and then maintain those rules for two more weeks, to allow two full incubation cycles to pass.

That would likely require another 60 days of lockdown, testing the resolve of people who have already been isolated for weeks and increasing the short-term costs to the economy.

Each month of restrictions at current levels has leached approximately 2% from Australia’s GDP, the report says, creating a situation where many workers, particularly the young, could face years of unemployment.

Read more:

What will it take to end pandemic in Australia by July?
More Australians are worried about the economy than their own health
Is social distancing the key to combating coronavirus?
The authors say the other challenge an elimination strategy may pose is to international travel, especially if the rest of the world developed herd immunity while Australia did not.

The policy would still require strict controls at Australian borders and enforced quarantine for returned travellers.

This will only change if (or until) a vaccine or effective treatment becomes available — something that for all the exciting news stories on medical breakthroughs they say could remain years away.

But the elimination strategy would mean Australia sees a bigger economic boost, compared with a policy of 'controlled adaptation', once restrictions were relaxed.

The argument here is that the lower risk of contracting the virus would create a situation where rules could be relaxed even further, with the population feeling safe and confident about the threats to their health

“Thus, an elimination strategy might be expected to deliver, over an 18-month period, about 50% more increase in economic output, compared to controlled adaptation.”

But the report also lays out the case for controlled adaptation which would involve restrictions easing from mid-May — even if the policy results in a slightly higher number of cases, hospitalisations and deaths.

To be successful, it would still require extensive testing and contact tracing and the public would need to be prepared for restrictions to come and go as case numbers fluctuated.

However, the major long-term advantage of a controlled adaptation is that it would be more realistic and adaptable, pragmatically accepting the fact that COVID-19 may be here to stay.

“It acknowledges the high likelihood of prolonged global circulation of this infection and starts off by preparing Australians and the system to adapt to living with the ongoing risk of infections,” the authors write.

“If we aim for elimination and fail, we may lose community responsiveness to hand-washing and social distancing messages, meaning that next time extreme distancing measures are needed to avoid an impending exponential growth in cases, we may not succeed.”

Other key benefits are that schools and other businesses could be re-opened earlier – albeit with social distancing measures in place – allowing a “much-needed earlier economic recovery to be initiated, thus alleviating widespread economic and personal hardship”.

And the report adds that controlled adaptation would allow a more rapid return to normal operations in the health system, which has seen many patients delaying or avoiding medical care.

In any event, in both options, most of us will remain susceptible to failure, especially if no vaccine arrives, the authors write.

“The final ‘exit’ from both pathways will require a vaccine that confers immunity to all of us.

“It seems reasonable to expect one in the next year or two.

"Should it become clear that the chance of a vaccine is remote, current strategies will need to be revised.”

Box: Roadmap to Recovery

Whichever path is taken, the expert group said some things cannot change...

Both strategies - elimination or controlled adaptation - envisage that testing is widely available, free of charge, with minimal wait times and a short turnaround time (less than one day).

Sentinel testing alone will not be sufficient. Therefore, testing capacity will need to be significantly increased.

The creation of a national, real-time, data repository of all COVID-19-related care in primary, secondary and acute care is needed to ensure best care for all.

This is critical because we know little about COVID-19 care now.

COVID-19 has resulted in a huge increase in video/tele-health and eHealth use.

The valuable aspects of this new model should be sustained as an important part of routine health care, supported by nationally agreed standards and quality indicators.

Support healthcare workers by ensuring they have sufficient and assured PPE supplies and comprehensive training in the appropriate use and bespoke programs to support their mental health and well-being.

International travel bans remain on all Australians, other than for sanctioned “essential” travel, for the next six months and any returning “essential” travellers be subject to the quarantine restrictions.

Given the state of the pandemic in the rest of the world, the government should continue the two-week period of enforced and monitored quarantine and isolation for all incoming travellers regardless of origin or citizenship.
Never apologise for being a geek, because they won't apologise to you for being an arsehole. John Barrowman - 22 June 2014 Perth Supernova.

Countries I have been to - 14.
Australia, Canada, China, Colombia, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Germany, Malaysia, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by The Romulan Republic »

"Herd immunity" via allowing everyone to become infected is pretty much eugenics, yeah. Or blood sacrifices to the Almighty Dollar. However you want to think of it.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
User avatar
Zaune
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7504
Joined: 2010-06-21 11:05am
Location: In Transit
Contact:

Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Zaune »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2020-04-29 01:24amTrump uses the Defense Production Act to classify meat processing plants overrun with COVID-19 as "critical infrastructure" and compel them to remain open.
Much as it galls me to admit it, food processing plants kind of are critical infrastructure. Although it says something not so great about US food safety regulations if they're having a problem with the disease spreading between employees; when I worked in one of those places, wearing gloves and using hand-sanitiser before entering the factory floor were mandatory and we weren't even dealing with meat.
There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)


Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
-- fgalkin


Like my writing? Tip me on Patreon

I Have A Blog
User avatar
ray245
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7954
Joined: 2005-06-10 11:30pm

Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by ray245 »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2020-04-29 04:53am "Herd immunity" via allowing everyone to become infected is pretty much eugenics, yeah. Or blood sacrifices to the Almighty Dollar. However you want to think of it.
Herd immunity sounds nice in theory, in the sense that you want to expose those who are young and healthy first to limit the spread. However, this is an impossible strategy as there is no way you can contain the spread to the elderly or those with underlying health conditions, as Sweden is finding out.

The only countries talking about herd immunity is all the European countries, while most countries in the Asia-Pacific region opted to go for containment and elimination of the disease.
Humans are such funny creatures. We are selfish about selflessness, yet we can love something so much that we can hate something.
User avatar
mr friendly guy
The Doctor
Posts: 11235
Joined: 2004-12-12 10:55pm
Location: In a 1960s police telephone box somewhere in Australia

Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by mr friendly guy »

Herd immunity as a concept is great for vaccines. Unfortunately I predict that term will be tainted due to the association with this stupid proposal by certain European countries, and its going to give anti vaxxers even more ammunition. They already use the term herd immunity against people arguing for vaccines and its most probably going to get worse.
Never apologise for being a geek, because they won't apologise to you for being an arsehole. John Barrowman - 22 June 2014 Perth Supernova.

Countries I have been to - 14.
Australia, Canada, China, Colombia, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Germany, Malaysia, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.
User avatar
ray245
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7954
Joined: 2005-06-10 11:30pm

Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by ray245 »

mr friendly guy wrote: 2020-04-29 09:01am Herd immunity as a concept is great for vaccines. Unfortunately I predict that term will be tainted due to the association with this stupid proposal by certain European countries, and its going to give anti vaxxers even more ammunition. They already use the term herd immunity against people arguing for vaccines and its most probably going to get worse.
This whole pandemic could have been prevented if Europe had been more willing to adopt more aggressive approach in lock down or aggressive contact tracing.
Humans are such funny creatures. We are selfish about selflessness, yet we can love something so much that we can hate something.
User avatar
aerius
Charismatic Cult Leader
Posts: 14795
Joined: 2002-08-18 07:27pm

Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by aerius »

ray245 wrote: 2020-04-29 09:16amThis whole pandemic could have been prevented if Europe had been more willing to adopt more aggressive approach in lock down or aggressive contact tracing.
That's the story of almost every country. Hard containment measures had to go in early, and all contacts had to be aggressively traced. You can't sit on your ass for a month and wait until there's 5000 confirmed cases floating around and god knows how many unreported cases and asymptotic carriers.
Image
aerius: I'll vote for you if you sleep with me. :)
Lusankya: Deal!
Say, do you want it to be a threesome with your wife? Or a foursome with your wife and sister-in-law? I'm up for either. :P
User avatar
Coop D'etat
Jedi Knight
Posts: 713
Joined: 2007-02-23 01:38pm
Location: UBC Unincorporated land

Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Coop D'etat »

aerius wrote: 2020-04-29 09:46am
ray245 wrote: 2020-04-29 09:16amThis whole pandemic could have been prevented if Europe had been more willing to adopt more aggressive approach in lock down or aggressive contact tracing.
That's the story of almost every country. Hard containment measures had to go in early, and all contacts had to be aggressively traced. You can't sit on your ass for a month and wait until there's 5000 confirmed cases floating around and god knows how many unreported cases and asymptotic carriers.
A lot of countries outside of East Asia were basically just following the WHO's script and the WHO's early script was very bad. Probably in part due to lack of knowledge and poor analogies to other viruses (SARS-COV2 is relatively unusual in significant ways), bureaucratic incompetence and bad information coming out from mainland China.

But pretty much all of Western Europe plus the high air traffic areas of North America were in for a rough ride when things spread so bad and so fast in Italy,
User avatar
ray245
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7954
Joined: 2005-06-10 11:30pm

Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by ray245 »

Coop D'etat wrote: 2020-04-29 11:38am A lot of countries outside of East Asia were basically just following the WHO's script and the WHO's early script was very bad. Probably in part due to lack of knowledge and poor analogies to other viruses (SARS-COV2 is relatively unusual in significant ways), bureaucratic incompetence and bad information coming out from mainland China.

But pretty much all of Western Europe plus the high air traffic areas of North America were in for a rough ride when things spread so bad and so fast in Italy,
A lot of them are barely even following WHO's script. The UK abandoned testing very early on only to realise they've made a big mistake.
Humans are such funny creatures. We are selfish about selflessness, yet we can love something so much that we can hate something.
User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 28812
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest

Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Broomstick »

Zaune wrote: 2020-04-28 10:13pm I'm not sure if this thing is meant to be satire or not. I'm not sure it even matters whether or not it's meant to be satire anymore.

Image
"Congrats, everyone. We invented the Holy Roman Empire."
I don't know about the rest of it but the map showing regional alliances is, near as I can tell, pretty much the reality right now.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 28812
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest

Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Broomstick »

I could see that - poverty, shitty medical care/infrastructure, crowding, pre-existing conditions that lead to greater risk...

Morally appalling, of course. It was horrible even before the pandemic, precisely because it exacerbates any health emergency.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
Sky Captain
Jedi Master
Posts: 1267
Joined: 2008-11-14 12:47pm
Location: Latvia

Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Sky Captain »

So far my country has been incredibly lucky with Covid 19 . We have among the lowest infection and death rate in Europe while having relatively little restrictions compared to most other European countries. Infections currently at 450 per million, death 8 per million. I think only Sweden has more relaxed rules, but they have far more serious spread. Government did a good job of introducing these mild restrictions very early when we had about 10 imported cases. We have 2 people and 2 meter rule unless everyone is from same family/household, all mass gatherings prohibited, schools, kindergartens, cinemas, theaters, pubs closed, those who can should work from home, anyone returning from abroad must stay 2 weeks in quarantine, but that's about it. Stores are open even those that would be considered nonessential, all outside public places are open, everyone is free to go anywhere if 2 meter rule can be maintained.

I'm actually very surprised so far about very low spread of virus, because people aren't following even those relatively relaxed distancing rules very strictly. I see small gatherings all the time mostly teenagers and young adults in the streets and parks, Cops will break them up if they see it and it becomes obvious these people are not from same household, but you can't have cops everywhere. Given there are plenty of far worse affected countries with much stricter restrictions it must be that people are even less compliant with restrictions in place.
User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 28812
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest

Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Broomstick »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2020-04-29 01:24am Trump uses the Defense Production Act to classify meat processing plants overrun with COVID-19 as "critical infrastructure" and compel them to remain open:

https://cnn.com/2020/04/28/politics/def ... index.html
Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump signed an executive order under the Defense Production Act to compel meat processing plants to remain open amid the coronavirus pandemic.

Trump had highlighted the order during an Oval Office meeting with Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis that was opened up to reporters.
"We're going to sign an executive order today, I believe, and that'll solve any liability problems," Trump said on Tuesday.
Typical elitist thinking.

The problem is NOT "liability" (although I'm sure corporate lawyers were worried about it, that's one of the things they're paid to do after all).

The problem is how the fuck are you going to keep those plants open if the workers are dead, too sick too work, or on strike because they don't want to end up sick or dead?

Thanks to the media play on this, despite the store imposing greater restrictions on how much meat individuals consumers can purchase our meat department was stripped clean by noon.

I foresee eating more beans in my future....
The Romulan Republic wrote: 2020-04-29 01:24amMeanwhile, I just heard on the TV that Ohio is telling workers they will not be eligible for unemployment benefits if they choose to stay home to protect themselves and others.

Maybe this has something to do with the fact that Ohio's unemployment fund is going broke?

https://daytondailynews.com/news/local/ ... 0AtqDEQnI/

Yeah, let's just let the states go bankrupt, Moscow Mitch.
Yeah, that's also been an issue in the background for awhile.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Zaune wrote: 2020-04-29 06:11am
The Romulan Republic wrote: 2020-04-29 01:24amTrump uses the Defense Production Act to classify meat processing plants overrun with COVID-19 as "critical infrastructure" and compel them to remain open.
Much as it galls me to admit it, food processing plants kind of are critical infrastructure. Although it says something not so great about US food safety regulations if they're having a problem with the disease spreading between employees; when I worked in one of those places, wearing gloves and using hand-sanitiser before entering the factory floor were mandatory and we weren't even dealing with meat.
I suppose the question is whether meat processing plants specifically are critical, as the meat industry seems to be particularly badly hit. Food is a necessity. Is pork specifically?
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
User avatar
Zaune
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7504
Joined: 2010-06-21 11:05am
Location: In Transit
Contact:

Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Zaune »

Pork isn't specifically a necessity but the protein, iron and other micronutrients found in red meat are important to a healthy diet, even if it wouldn't be a bad thing if many people reduced their intake. And pigs are a very resource-efficient and therefore cheap source of it.
There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)


Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
-- fgalkin


Like my writing? Tip me on Patreon

I Have A Blog
User avatar
ray245
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7954
Joined: 2005-06-10 11:30pm

Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by ray245 »

Dr. Anthony Fauci says Gilead’s remdesivir will set a new ‘standard of care’ for coronavirus treatment

White House health advisor Dr. Anthony Fauci said Wednesday that data from a coronavirus drug trial testing Gilead Sciences’ antiviral drug remdesivir showed “quite good news” and sets a new standard of care for Covid-19 patients.

Speaking to reporters from the White House, Fauci said he was told data from the trial showed a “clear-cut positive effect in diminishing time to recover.”

Fauci said the median time of recovery for patients taking the drug was 11 days, compared with 15 days in the placebo group. He said the mortality benefit of remdesivir “has not yet reached statistical significance.”

The results suggested a survival benefit, with a mortality rate of 8% for the group receiving remdesivir versus 11.6% for the placebo group, according to a statement from the National Institutes of Health released later Wednesday.

“This will be the standard of care,” Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, added. “When you know a drug works, you have to let people in the placebo group know so they can take it.”

“What it has proven is a drug can block this virus,” he said.

U.S. health officials are expected to release the full results of a drug trial conducted by the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases later Wednesday. Gilead Sciences announced earlier in the day that the study had met its primary endpoint but did not provide further details.

Gilead also released preliminary results from its own study, showing at least 50% of the patients treated with a five-day dosage of remdesivir improved. The clinical trial involved 397 patients with severe cases of Covid-19. The severe study is “single-arm,” meaning it did not evaluate the drug against a control group of patients who didn’t receive the drug.

The Food and Drug Administration, in the meantime, has been in “sustained and ongoing” discussions with Gilead to make remdesivir available to Covid-19 patients “as quickly as possible, as appropriate,” said FDA senior advisor Michael Felberbaum.

Shares of Gilead were up by more than 6% in midday trading.

There are no proven treatments for Covid-19, which has infected more than 3.1 million people worldwide and killed at least 217,569 as of Wednesday, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University. U.S. health officials say producing a vaccine to prevent the disease will take at least 12 to 18 months, making finding an effective drug treatment soon even more crucial.

President Donald Trump has touted Gilead’s remdesivir as a potential treatment for the virus. A number of studies are testing the drug to see if it’s effective in stopping the coronavirus from replicating, but it is not yet a proven treatment.

Remdesivir has shown some promise in treating SARS and MERS, which are also caused by coronaviruses. Some health authorities in the U.S., China and other parts of the world have been using remdesivir, which was tested as a possible treatment for the Ebola outbreak, in hopes that the drug can reduce the duration of Covid-19 in patients.

On Tuesday, Fauci warned that the United States “could be in for a bad fall” if researchers don’t find an effective treatment to fight the coronavirus by then.

Covid-19 is “not going to disappear from the planet,” he said, adding infectious disease experts are learning about how the virus behaves by watching emerging outbreaks in other regions such as southern Africa that are starting to enter their colder seasons.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/29/dr-anth ... -news.html

Some good news for a change. It is not the magic cure, but it will help to ease the burden in hospitals.
Humans are such funny creatures. We are selfish about selflessness, yet we can love something so much that we can hate something.
User avatar
madd0ct0r
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6259
Joined: 2008-03-14 07:47am

Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by madd0ct0r »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2020-04-29 05:13pm
Zaune wrote: 2020-04-29 06:11am
The Romulan Republic wrote: 2020-04-29 01:24amTrump uses the Defense Production Act to classify meat processing plants overrun with COVID-19 as "critical infrastructure" and compel them to remain open.
Much as it galls me to admit it, food processing plants kind of are critical infrastructure. Although it says something not so great about US food safety regulations if they're having a problem with the disease spreading between employees; when I worked in one of those places, wearing gloves and using hand-sanitiser before entering the factory floor were mandatory and we weren't even dealing with meat.
I suppose the question is whether meat processing plants specifically are critical, as the meat industry seems to be particularly badly hit. Food is a necessity. Is pork specifically?
No, meat generally and definitely meat at USA consumption levels are not specifically necessary. Moving to a low meat consumption diet is something to do slowly though, not be forced on an entire area due to a chaotic supply chain collapse (not least because the supply chain for the alternatives won't be able to cope under the circumstances)
"Aid, trade, green technology and peace." - Hans Rosling.
"Welcome to SDN, where we can't see the forest because walking into trees repeatedly feels good, bro." - Mr Coffee
Locked