Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

[loomer]

The governor of Kentucky has requested the National Guard deploy to Louisville.

[Jub]

The Amish (Or perhaps Mennonites) have showed up to protest the death of George Floyd.



We even have the owners of damaged businesses speaking out that their property can be rebuilt but lives cannot be brought back.

The owner of a Minneapolis restaurant damaged by fire during George Floyd protests said: 'Let my building burn, justice needs to be served'

The owner of an Indian restaurant in Minneapolis, which was set on fire during protests against the death of George Floyd, has said he bears no malice to those who burned down his business and sympathizes with the anger at the killing.

In an early Friday Facebook post, owner Ruhan Islam's daughter, Hafsa, wrote:

"Don't worry about us, we will rebuild and we will recover ... I am sitting next to my dad watching the news, I hear him say on the phone: 'Let my building burn, justice needs to be served, put those officers in jail.'"

Floyd, an unarmed black man, died on Monday in Minneapolis after a white police officer knelt on his neck for several minutes. Video published Thursday showed three other officers pinning him to the ground with their knees.

Protests over Floyd's death started in Minneapolis on Tuesday and have since spread to at least 20 other cities in the US.

The restaurant, which is three blocks from the Minneapolis Third Police Precinct, was set ablaze on Thursday night, and damaged by fire early Friday morning.

Islam, who is originally from Bangladesh, later said: "Life is more valuable than anything else. We can rebuild a building. But we cannot give this man back to his family," according to BuzzFeed.

His daughter Hafsa, 18, had briefly witnessed the fatal arrest of Floyd while delivering takeout orders from the restaurant.

"I remembered how he was crying and in pain," she said, according to BuzzFeed.

Many businesses, large and small, have been attacked during the four nights of protest in Minneapolis. Some have been set ablaze, while others were looted.

All four officers involved in Floyd's death were fired on Tuesday. Derek Chauvin, the officer who was filmed kneeling on Floyd, was charged with third-degree murder on Friday.

This thing might just have enough justified outrage behind it to force concessions. Otherwise, it might just be a nasty bloodbath that only further enables the US to slide into the right-wing hellhole it seems to want to become.

[Broomstick]

The governor of Kentucky has requested the National Guard deploy to Louisville.

That's a little oddly put - the Kentucky National Guard is under the command of the Kentucky governor, he doesn't have to ask anyone's permission.

And... overall this is really turning into a widespread clusterfuck. I think either we're going to see a push-back of fascist tendencies or else this is the point the fascists take over.

I think what pisses me off the most is all the jackasses that lost their shit over a black man kneeling during a song see a white man kneel on a black man's neck until the black man is dead and go "meh - no big deal". It certainly makes me angry enough to throw shit and break things, I'm not at all puzzled why we are having riots in so many cities.

[loomer]

There appears to be no meaningful evidence for the claims that most of the uprising is down to outside interference. It's a standard argument used against almost any uprising by Black America - constantly bandied about in the 50s and 60s, blaming them damn communists - and any violent revolt.

[Mr Bean]

So the last few hours have seen everything from some good old fashion medieval Calvary riding down the peasants police car run through a protestor barricade and hitting over several people. Reports are still getting attacked and there are a half dozen reports of counter protestors showing up to attack the protestors including the most bizarre incident to date.

Bowman tackled before he could fire

UTV — An unidentified, older white man left his vehicle in the middle of the protest downtown with a bow and arrow in hand; and in return, he was assaulted and his vehicle burned in the street.

This is the second vehicle to be flipped and burned during the protest happening in downtown Salt Lake City on Saturday. Nearly 2,000 Utahns assembled to address nationwide problems with police brutality.
The man left his vehicle in the middle of the intersection near 200 South and 400 East – in eyesight of where the first vehicle was reported to be burned. The man allegedly was going to use the bow and arrow on protesters, according to witnesses. In response, people at the protest tackled the man and attacked him. At least 15 people pinned the man against his vehicle to punch, kick and throw things at him. His face was left bloody and his vehicle was looted and flipped, according to 2News reporter Kelly Vaughen. The vehicle then caught fire in the streets.

The man was not identified but was believed to be escorted by police. He is now in custody and charges are expected to be filed against him.

We will see what the morning brings but my phone has already informed me of a local Philly curfew and I've heard second hand of intersections and highway exits near downtown being blocked off by police to prevent crowd reinforcement. People can leave but they can't get in.

[loomer]

Real class acts, the government's thugs. It's clear these people were posing a serious danger to public order and the safety of the troops involved.

[PainRack]

Is anyone else disturbed by the reports that a lot of the riots are being instigated by agitators from out of state in Minneapolis, and that Trump is actively egging on an over response to this ?
Seriously, 3 years ago when Trump "joked" about not protecting detained people heads, this was not what I expected America police response to deteoriate to.

At this point, while there's obviously actual grievances and emotions run wild, there's also lots of scope for neo Nazis race war, QAnon the Storm to even good old Little Green Men that I need a sound dose of logic and evidence to convince me that I haven't descended into conspiracy loonie land.

[loomer]

There's very little actual evidence of 'outside agitators'. It's a standard piece of propaganda used to discredit uprisings by Black America, and less frequently, other violent riots. So yes - it's concerning. Not because of sinister anarchists from out of state (oh, the power we supposedly hold. If a few anarchists turning up could incite a national crisis, don't you think we'd have done that at every opportunity?) but because the establishment is promulgating a conspiracy theory that legitimizes the use of excessive force to 'defend our cities' from 'outside interference'.

They tried the same line in Ferguson. It was inaccurate then, and it's inaccurate now.

[loomer]

Quality police work, right here. I know people have wondered where the ACAB sentiment comes from - well, shit like these jackbooted thugs are pulling here is where. If you watch the footage that's coming out, huge amounts of violence are coming from the cops, not from 'outside agitators' or 'anarchists', and the media coverage has a slant. Where protestors do cause violence, it's directly attributed. When a reporter has her eye shot out by the cops, the media coverage takes the passive voice. 'A photojournalist has been shot in the eye and may permanently lose her vision'. They'll report that 'protestors swarmed a police car and lit on fire', but suddenly it's the passive voice when it comes to police violence, when what it should be is 'the police are shooting photojournalists in the face and permanently blinding them'.

[loomer]

Just another legitimate use of force.

[aerius]

Quality police work, right here. I know people have wondered where the ACAB sentiment comes from - well, shit like these jackbooted thugs are pulling here is where. If you watch the footage that's coming out, huge amounts of violence are coming from the cops, not from 'outside agitators' or 'anarchists', and the media coverage has a slant. Where protestors do cause violence, it's directly attributed. When a reporter has her eye shot out by the cops, the media coverage takes the passive voice. 'A photojournalist has been shot in the eye and may permanently lose her vision'. They'll report that 'protestors swarmed a police car and lit on fire', but suddenly it's the passive voice when it comes to police violence, when what it should be is 'the police are shooting photojournalists in the face and permanently blinding them'.

There's a reason why the public's trust of mainstream media is at or near an all-time low. This is what happens when the media is pulling shit straight out of the Goebbels playbook. This is not a game they want to play, if/when the people get pissed enough with how much they're being lied to it's gonna get real ugly.

The entire situation is starting to go critical, better get some truth, justice, and immediate reforms in there or it's not going to end well. They may get this round of protests suppressed for now, but unless the underlying issues are addressed it's gonna keep happening and escalating until everything goes up in flames.

[Darth Yan]

Law enforcement has a problem in general; for a long time they've been coddled and they HATE criticism of any kind. Back in 2015 I encountered a cop named Martin Preib online. Preib's a CPD officer who's made a living demonizing the innocence project and implying that all the cases they exonerate have people who are guilty (and to be fair he found ONE case where that happened but only one.)

I bring this up because one of his major hobbies seems to be apologizing for Jon Burge (a guy who among other things used electroshock torture, suffocating, russian roulette and strapping people to a radiator to get them to confess, often falsely). Burge was only punished because one of his victims (a man named Madison Hobley) sued him and because Burge lied outright rather than pleading the fifth the feds were able to charge the bastard with perjury (which resulted in a four year sentence but also destroyed Burge's reputation and ensured he died in disgrace). As such, Hobley has become the favorite target of the FOP union in Chicago (what's really despicable is that in Hobley's case it's very likely that the police's star witness is the one who actually committed the mass murder Hobley was sentenced to die for AND that the police knew and covered it up because "ain't nothing but ****ers died in that fire"). The lawyers and journalists who exposed Burge's crimes are also demonized and the city is STILL paying off the lawsuits this jackass caused.

These guys just seem like an extension of the same mentality the FOP have. They hate that they're forced to be held accountable for their actions and so they're getting murderous.

After Laquan McDonald was murdered the Chicago media FINALLY started taking real attempts to call police officers out on their actions; unsurprisingly the CPD got angry and are being huffy.

[loomer]

These guys just seem like an extension of the same mentality the FOP have. They hate that they're forced to be held accountable for their actions and so they're getting murderous.

The best illustration of this is watching the rage from the cops whenever it's suggested that any police officer who kills a person should be subject to aggravated sentencing guidelines if convicted of an offence. That, it seems, should only ever be the case when a civilian kills a cop, if you listen to them.

Slate, at least, isn't weaseling out with passive voice: 'Police erupt in violence nationwide.'

[Civil War Man]

Bowman tackled before he could fire

UTV — An unidentified, older white man left his vehicle in the middle of the protest downtown with a bow and arrow in hand; and in return, he was assaulted and his vehicle burned in the street.

This is the second vehicle to be flipped and burned during the protest happening in downtown Salt Lake City on Saturday. Nearly 2,000 Utahns assembled to address nationwide problems with police brutality.
The man left his vehicle in the middle of the intersection near 200 South and 400 East – in eyesight of where the first vehicle was reported to be burned. The man allegedly was going to use the bow and arrow on protesters, according to witnesses. In response, people at the protest tackled the man and attacked him. At least 15 people pinned the man against his vehicle to punch, kick and throw things at him. His face was left bloody and his vehicle was looted and flipped, according to 2News reporter Kelly Vaughen. The vehicle then caught fire in the streets.

The man was not identified but was believed to be escorted by police. He is now in custody and charges are expected to be filed against him.

There are conflicting reports about whether it was before he could fire. Most news outlets seem to be saying he didn't fire off any arrows, but I've also been hearing that he fired off a single arrow, but didn't hit anyone. There isn't a clear enough video showing it, but the one that's really been making the rounds does have him clearly nocking an arrow and pointing it in various directions, but then the video turns away while the person taking it walks around a flatbed, and by the time she turns back, there's just a quick glimpse of the guy's arm coming down, his bow apparently without an arrow nocked, and someone falling to the ground right in front of him right before he gets dog-piled. If he had fired a shot and missed, the person falling to the ground may have been ducking out of the way or something.

A TMZ story that has been claiming he fired the bow has a before and after screen capture from the video.
TMZ


A second video also came out showing him brandishing a knife before pulling out the bow.

As the cherry on top, soon after the incident (he's an old white guy, so he was very quickly released from custody, apparently), he was talking to a SLC Fox affiliate claiming that his facial injuries were from "two Black African-Americans" attacking him through his car window. Right before the video of him outside his car, armed, threatening people, and then getting mobbed by much more than two people who were almost all white started spreading.

[loomer]

The jackboots stormed a medical tent. Remind me why we aren't actively describing the US as a failed state right now?

[loomer]

At this point it is clear that the police targeting press is not one or two bad apples. It is deliberate, sustained, and strategic.

If you take out the eyes on the ground, there is no evidence of abuse that cannot be denied. We have observed the same behaviour in dictatorships and failed states across the world. Once is an accident. Twice is regrettable. Thirty, forty, fifty times is deliberate action.

[PainRack]

There's very little actual evidence of 'outside agitators'. It's a standard piece of propaganda used to discredit uprisings by Black America, and less frequently, other violent riots. So yes - it's concerning. Not because of sinister anarchists from out of state (oh, the power we supposedly hold. If a few anarchists turning up could incite a national crisis, don't you think we'd have done that at every opportunity?) but because the establishment is promulgating a conspiracy theory that legitimizes the use of excessive force to 'defend our cities' from 'outside interference'.

They tried the same line in Ferguson. It was inaccurate then, and it's inaccurate now.

I tot my post made it clear.
https://www.justsecurity.org/70497/far- ... remacists/

I don't think it's the anarchists inciting violence.but when black community members are saying the neo Nazis are in Minneapolis inciting violence, I'm not going to dismiss them.

Neither am I saying there isn't a deep-seated, deep rooted anger at the mistreatment of blacks that erupted into violent protests.



To be frank, without any real exposure to America, or experience of systematic racism or even nothing more than dim memories of poverty, perhaps you could enlighten me more ?

For example
https://youtu.be/v4amCfVbA_c
What do you think of Trevor Noah take on this ? That a background of isolation and injury from the impact of Covid 19, has allowed emotions invited by Cooper threatening to incite police violence on black and then the murder by cops to erupt into violence, as they felt the social contract was torn up. Pure Hobbesian , with one rooted in deep seated racism and injury to tte black community.

Left unspoken by Noah here is how a black jogger was murdered by a posse, which in turn will make me wonder whether the disruption caused by Covid 19 has torn apart veils. Where previous injuries would had been assuaged by wealth, racists are taking that hurt and expressing it as more hate towards black, stirring the pot further?

[loomer]

I'm not American and the link is geoblocked for me, but Noah probably isn't wrong. But if he's neglected the long, long standing issue in favour of viewing COVID-19 as a unique flashpoint then he's mistaken on that point. On the white supremacist front, there's definitely a problem with boogaloo boys coming down but most of the protests and rage are coming from the Black community's own deep wells from what I'm hearing from my Black anarchist friends. In fact, they're extremely offended by the counter narrative of the 'peaceful Black, violent White' protests since they feel it robs them of agency.

[mr friendly guy]

I'm not American and the link is geoblocked for me, but Noah probably isn't wrong. But if he's neglected the long, long standing issue in favour of viewing COVID-19 as a unique flashpoint then he's mistaken on that point. On the white supremacist front, there's definitely a problem with boogaloo boys coming down but most of the protests and rage are coming from the Black community's own deep wells from what I'm hearing from my Black anarchist friends. In fact, they're extremely offended by the counter narrative of the 'peaceful Black, violent White' protests since they feel it robs them of agency.

You can watch if you use Opera as a browser since it has its own VPN. Tested it and its allowing me to watch the Trevor Noah link.

Opera is free. Its VPN is not as a good as a paid one, but its good enough to overcome the geoblock.

[Broomstick]

There appears to be no meaningful evidence for the claims that most of the uprising is down to outside interference. It's a standard argument used against almost any uprising by Black America - constantly bandied about in the 50s and 60s, blaming them damn communists - and any violent revolt.

Supposedly, quite a few people arrested for crimes during these riots have, in fact, been from out of town or other states. I don't think the protests drawing mass crowds to the streets are from "outside agitators" but that doesn't mean there aren't some folks in the crowd with their own agendas apart from the larger group.

[Broomstick]

So the last few hours have seen everything from some good old fashion medieval Calvary riding down the peasants police car run through a protestor barricade and hitting over several people. Reports are still getting attacked and there are a half dozen reports of counter protestors showing up to attack the protestors including the most bizarre incident to date.

Bowman tackled before he could fire

Looks like self-defense on the part of the crowd to me in the case of the bowman.

[loomer]

There appears to be no meaningful evidence for the claims that most of the uprising is down to outside interference. It's a standard argument used against almost any uprising by Black America - constantly bandied about in the 50s and 60s, blaming them damn communists - and any violent revolt.

Supposedly, quite a few people arrested for crimes during these riots have, in fact, been from out of town or other states. I don't think the protests drawing mass crowds to the streets are from "outside agitators" but that doesn't mean there aren't some folks in the crowd with their own agendas apart from the larger group.

Last time I checked into it it was a relatively small number, most of them from outlying communities in the catchment of the metropolitan areas involved. Take St. Paul, for instance. Less than twenty-four hours later the claim has been retracted because it's fundamentally incorrect. 81% of the arrested were Minnesota residents - the exact inverse ratio of the Mayor's claim.

There is no meaningful evidence whatsoever that large parts of the uprising are being fuelled or fomented from outside the regions involved - ed: at least not that I've seen.

[Broomstick]

There's very little actual evidence of 'outside agitators'. It's a standard piece of propaganda used to discredit uprisings by Black America, and less frequently, other violent riots. So yes - it's concerning. Not because of sinister anarchists from out of state (oh, the power we supposedly hold. If a few anarchists turning up could incite a national crisis, don't you think we'd have done that at every opportunity?) but because the establishment is promulgating a conspiracy theory that legitimizes the use of excessive force to 'defend our cities' from 'outside interference'.

They tried the same line in Ferguson. It was inaccurate then, and it's inaccurate now.

Except, of course, for those arrested who, when identified, are found to actually be from outside the state.

It's not unknown for government or private interests to send people into protests to stir up trouble, there's just as long a history of that as "outside agitators" being made-up bullshit. There was video of a guy methodically smashing windows at an Autozone in Minneapolis believed by many to be a police officer sent out to give the rest of the police a pretext for harsher methods - which would, in fact, be an "outside agitator" not from outside the state but from outside the actual protestors. There are also whacko groups in the US interested in instigating violence and/or race war who have, in fact, turned up at other demonstrations with the intention of causing trouble. Why is it beyond belief that they might be involved here, too?

Absolutely we have to be on guard against big authority framing the argument in their own favor, or outright lying. That doesn't mean outside provocateurs can't or don't happen.

[Broomstick]

Supposedly, quite a few people arrested for crimes during these riots have, in fact, been from out of town or other states. I don't think the protests drawing mass crowds to the streets are from "outside agitators" but that doesn't mean there aren't some folks in the crowd with their own agendas apart from the larger group.

Last time I checked into it it was a relatively small number, most of them from outlying communities in the catchment of the metropolitan areas involved. Take St. Paul, for instance. Less than twenty-four hours later the claim has been retracted because it's fundamentally incorrect. 81% of the arrested were Minnesota residents - the exact inverse ratio of the Mayor's claim.

There is no meaningful evidence whatsoever that large parts of the uprising are being fuelled or fomented from outside the regions involved - ed: at least not that I've seen.

It doesn't have to be a LARGE number of outside agitators to cause arson, murder, looting, and enable the authoritarians to frame this as a "black problem" when, in fact, the crowds protesting are multi-racial in nature and most of those participating are peaceful.

There is a LONG history in the US of either agents of oppressive authority hiring thugs to instigate violence (and provide justification for violent put-downs), or of groups with their own agendas taking advantage of situations like this.

It's more useful to look at those charged with a crime rather than arrested - cops have a habit of trying to round up mass numbers of people to get them off the street and sorting everything out the next morning. My older siblings and spouse were all arrested during the 1960's for simply being caught out on the street during riot but never actually charged with anything. I'm not saying it's the right way to quell a riot, but it's a known tactic.

[loomer]

There's very little actual evidence of 'outside agitators'. It's a standard piece of propaganda used to discredit uprisings by Black America, and less frequently, other violent riots. So yes - it's concerning. Not because of sinister anarchists from out of state (oh, the power we supposedly hold. If a few anarchists turning up could incite a national crisis, don't you think we'd have done that at every opportunity?) but because the establishment is promulgating a conspiracy theory that legitimizes the use of excessive force to 'defend our cities' from 'outside interference'.

They tried the same line in Ferguson. It was inaccurate then, and it's inaccurate now.

Except, of course, for those arrested who, when identified, are found to actually be from outside the state.

It's not unknown for government or private interests to send people into protests to stir up trouble, there's just as long a history of that as "outside agitators" being made-up bullshit. There was video of a guy methodically smashing windows at an Autozone in Minneapolis believed by many to be a police officer sent out to give the rest of the police a pretext for harsher methods - which would, in fact, be an "outside agitator" not from outside the state but from outside the actual protestors. There are also whacko groups in the US interested in instigating violence and/or race war who have, in fact, turned up at other demonstrations with the intention of causing trouble. Why is it beyond belief that they might be involved here, too?

Absolutely we have to be on guard against big authority framing the argument in their own favor, or outright lying. That doesn't mean outside provocateurs can't or don't happen.

Bluntly, there is a distinction between the agent provocateurs deployed by the police and the right and the 'outside agitators' claimed by the establishment. The establishment creates the appearance of outside agitation to discredit the legitimacy of the uprising, pure and simple, and it is for this reason that we must not dignify Barr et al's claims of 'outside agitators' even in the context of police undercovers.

So when we say 'this is not the work of outside agitators', it is not to say 'there are zero people who are not 100% part of the community involved in this riot'. It is a way of saying 'no, fuck off and take your framejob bullshit elsewhere'. We all know there's police undercovers and rightists who start shit. There always are, and they aren't anything new - so allowing them to dominate the discourse is counterproductive.