New Clone Wars Season 7 Trailer.

[Galvatron]

It's also worth noting that the order didn't necessarily have to come from Palpatine either...

Spoiler

Make of that what you will.

[chimericoncogene]

It's also worth noting that the order didn't necessarily have to come from Palpatine either...

Make of that what you will.

Yeah, that's canon now thanks to that comic, but it's just so stupid, and inconsistent with the portrayl of Order 66 elsewhere...

The problems with a simple verbal trigger without specific commanders are limitless (malicious or accidental activation being chief among them), and the lack of ability to make exceptions is nonsensical and clearly inconsistent given that Anakin Skywalker led his own frickkin' 501st during Knightfall without wearing a disguise of any significance (you mean you can't recognize your boss through a hood?). We've seen how clones act under Order 66, and as Rex and Jesse show, they act intelligently. Commanders still command, everyone comes up with reasonably creative coordinated responses no different to "usual performance", and Jesse is perceptive enough to know a trick by Rex when he sees one, and correctly dismisses arguments made on technicalities.

And Order 66 doesn't "stick"? Shouldn't it be a relatively long-duration standing order, to give a few months to hunt down and kill Jedi leakers?

[Galvatron]

Maybe it didn't "stick" because they were a younger batch of clones that entered service after Order 66 was given? As for why they followed the order when given by a Jedi, I can only speculate. Maybe he used it in conjunction with the Jedi mind trick or something.

There's also this:

Spoiler

[Reyvan]

I would guess that Palpatine didn't require the order to come from the Supreme Chancellor. The army was ordered 10 years before the Clone Wars. By the time the war started, Palpatine was in office past the end of his term. He might have allowed for the army to be triggered by anyone, just in case he wasn't in office by the time it was time for Order 66.

[chimericoncogene]

I would guess that Palpatine didn't require the order to come from the Supreme Chancellor. The army was ordered 10 years before the Clone Wars. By the time the war started, Palpatine was in office past the end of his term. He might have allowed for the army to be triggered by anyone, just in case he wasn't in office by the time it was time for Order 66.

Such a backup plan makes excellent sense in view of Palps's planning process, yeah.
It probably makes more sense to authorize an issue of Order 66 only to anyone who designated themselves "Lord Sidious", considering that the clones all seemed to refer to the Supreme Chancellor as such following Order 66. Letting any rando accidentally trigger it is an accident waiting to happen, and gives no flexibility to Palps - recall that he was already watching Skywalker with great interest back in the Phantom Menace, so he would have wanted the ability to exclude at least one Jedi from the planning process.

[GuppyShark]

Re: Ahsokha being considered a Jedi by the clones. They lampshaded that when she first rejoined, I'm pretty sure Anakin literally says "[The clones] still consider you a Jedi."

[Gandalf]

And how many times did the US forces just frag their Commander or someone in their platoon? Especially if it was someone they respected and admired?

See, you have this disconnect about what someone does to an 'enemy', and what someone does to someone you consider in your unit and friend. This is why firing squads are supposed to have one blank in among them, and were comprised of people who weren't in that unit. Because such actions destroyed morale and would be refused otherwise.

If they were so okay with fragging people they were friendly with, they would have had multiple cases of friendly fire, which would kind of put a hindrance to their whole effectiveness as soldiers. This is why they had that whole professionalism thing that required them training for years before deploying.

Sorry for the slow reply. Things are nuts.

I thought fraggings represented a massive breakdown of order and morale? If so, their relevance is not readily apparent.

[FaxModem1]

And how many times did the US forces just frag their Commander or someone in their platoon? Especially if it was someone they respected and admired?

See, you have this disconnect about what someone does to an 'enemy', and what someone does to someone you consider in your unit and friend. This is why firing squads are supposed to have one blank in among them, and were comprised of people who weren't in that unit. Because such actions destroyed morale and would be refused otherwise.

If they were so okay with fragging people they were friendly with, they would have had multiple cases of friendly fire, which would kind of put a hindrance to their whole effectiveness as soldiers. This is why they had that whole professionalism thing that required them training for years before deploying.

Sorry for the slow reply. Things are nuts.

I thought fraggings represented a massive breakdown of order and morale? If so, their relevance is not readily apparent.

No problem about the slow reply. World outside is weird.

That's my point. Clone morale would have to be in the toilet for them to be okay with fragging every Jedi they saw. Being able to do that requires interference of some kind.

This is because morale for clones was never bad enough to warrant shooting their commander. The Jedi were working to keep their clones alive, and were their biggest proponents, excepting for Pong Krell. Shooting their commander like that would have been really out of character, and unwarranted, and thinking that the Clones would do so without a cause aside from some guy calling in on a hologram saying to do it is unrealistic unless there's an outside component, like the biochips.

Without them, the Clones, in all other instances, pretty much act like human soldiers, even if it's firing coldly at the enemy. A person they would tag friend, and would have tagged friend and comrade in arms for years, like the Jedi, would be VERY hard to kill in their psyches, due to all the history they share.

[Gandalf]

No problem about the slow reply. World outside is weird.

That's my point. Clone morale would have to be in the toilet for them to be okay with fragging every Jedi they saw. Being able to do that requires interference of some kind.

This is because morale for clones was never bad enough to warrant shooting their commander. The Jedi were working to keep their clones alive, and were their biggest proponents, excepting for Pong Krell. Shooting their commander like that would have been really out of character, and unwarranted, and thinking that the Clones would do so without a cause aside from some guy calling in on a hologram saying to do it is unrealistic unless there's an outside component, like the biochips.

Without them, the Clones, in all other instances, pretty much act like human soldiers, even if it's firing coldly at the enemy. A person they would tag friend, and would have tagged friend and comrade in arms for years, like the Jedi, would be VERY hard to kill in their psyches, due to all the history they share.

I get your point, even though I disagree. I wasn't really thinking of morale breakdown based killings, but ones where a superior orders someone to do a monstrous thing and people go "okay."

I posed the question above, but I guess it got lost in the quoting of it all; there's the better part of a decade between when we first see Order 66, and when the chips thing came out. Did you consider it a plot hole in that time?

In that period the space SS became a loveable marketing juggernaut, so I get the need to externalise their atrocities and keep them marketable, but I also find it really fucked up.

[Galvatron]

It would be hard for me to hate the clones anyway since they were created to be warrior slaves and given no choice about serving the Republic whether they had chips or not.

However, since they're kinda like Nexus-6 Replicants in that "after a few years they might develop their own emotional responses," I can see why the chip was deemed a necessary failsafe.

[FaxModem1]

No problem about the slow reply. World outside is weird.

That's my point. Clone morale would have to be in the toilet for them to be okay with fragging every Jedi they saw. Being able to do that requires interference of some kind.

This is because morale for clones was never bad enough to warrant shooting their commander. The Jedi were working to keep their clones alive, and were their biggest proponents, excepting for Pong Krell. Shooting their commander like that would have been really out of character, and unwarranted, and thinking that the Clones would do so without a cause aside from some guy calling in on a hologram saying to do it is unrealistic unless there's an outside component, like the biochips.

Without them, the Clones, in all other instances, pretty much act like human soldiers, even if it's firing coldly at the enemy. A person they would tag friend, and would have tagged friend and comrade in arms for years, like the Jedi, would be VERY hard to kill in their psyches, due to all the history they share.

I get your point, even though I disagree. I wasn't really thinking of morale breakdown based killings, but ones where a superior orders someone to do a monstrous thing and people go "okay."

Again, it comes down to the tribal mindset. This is why armies wear uniforms, after all. Shooting someone who is against you, on the opposite side, brings that about and becomes standard, pretty much okay in someone's mind. Shooting someone who has fought on your side would be a step too far for most people, simply due to the fact that you know them better. This is because, unless they're like Pong Krell and disregarding you to dangerous degrees, they'll be your surrogate family and look after you. Your Sergeant who is in the trenches with you, or your officer, and trust them to hell and back. They will be listened to much more than some politician who is giving orders about executing a random order. Cases of them just going, "Okay, I have no problems with killing the guy who just saved my life twenty minutes ago. Orders are orders." is almost alien in outlook.

This is mostly because you know you can trust the person who just saved your life, you're not so sure about the guy who sending down the paperwork and telling you to go die for a pointless reason.

I posed the question above, but I guess it got lost in the quoting of it all; there's the better part of a decade between when we first see Order 66, and when the chips thing came out. Did you consider it a plot hole in that time?

In that period the space SS became a loveable marketing juggernaut, so I get the need to externalise their atrocities and keep them marketable, but I also find it really fucked up.

Well, I'm probably a bad example, as I was enlisted, and grew up a lot and had a much different world view than what I had back when AOTC came out, and was starting to understand the Clones when I was enlisted, which was when ROTS came out.

I remember showing others in my Tech school team the original 2D Clone Wars cartoon. And the obvious jokes about us being the expendable troopers that get slaughtered in the movies and TV shows while the heroes save the day came up. That sort of perspective makes you think about being the clones.

This continued on when ROTS came out, especially as they come off as a bunch of amiable yet professional soldiers. We saw ourselves in the clones. I personally attributed it to Palpatine force powers or something because Cody calls Palpatine, "My Lord", which they never do prior to Order 66, as they address everyone else by rank, or by the civilian designation, "Sir", but didn't know why. Only figured that it was really sad that all the Jedi were dying.

So, that made me see them as people, combined with this scene years later of course:



In which Yoda basically tells the clones, and the audience, that they're really people, because he can feel the differences between them in the force, and they should embrace it.

It also made sense EU wise, that the Clones, who were mocapped by a marine for ROTS, were meant for war, while the Stormtroopers, who were much less professional and played by actors who had trouble moving around on the Tantive IV, were all serving based on political loyalty and dogma rather than competence, or were conscripts meant for dying.

[Lord Revan]

Yeah the thing to remember is that even before the Biochip arc EU went out of its way to show that the clones either had or were developing unique personalities and were capable of thinking for themselves. There in lies the issue with Order 66 just being an order that's not enforced by external factors.

My issue isn't that the clones obeyed but rather how casually and easily they did it. In current EU I know of exactly 2 clone troopers who hesitated Rex and Jessie, every other clone seemed utterly unintrested on order to kill all your generals, that's not sign of professionalism but more sign of mind control (generals are kind of important after all so killing them is quite a big deal). The ease and casual nature in which Order 66 was executed is at odds with most depiction of how clones behave.

[amigocabal]

Yeah the thing to remember is that even before the Biochip arc EU went out of its way to show that the clones either had or were developing unique personalities and were capable of thinking for themselves. There in lies the issue with Order 66 just being an order that's not enforced by external factors.

My issue isn't that the clones obeyed but rather how casually and easily they did it. In current EU I know of exactly 2 clone troopers who hesitated Rex and Jessie, every other clone seemed utterly unintrested on order to kill all your generals, that's not sign of professionalism but more sign of mind control (generals are kind of important after all so killing them is quite a big deal). The ease and casual nature in which Order 66 was executed is at odds with most depiction of how clones behave.

That is why the biochip was necessary to explain why they so readily executed Order 66.

Still, it seems Order 66 should not have applied to Ahsoka. Remember this scene from RoboCop?



If I had been on the Clone Wars writing team, I would have added a short scene where Ahsoka is officially reinstated into the Jedi Order, the morning that Order 66 went in to effect (possibly by direct communication with a Jedi Master), with Rex and Jessie witnessing it, thus filling in this apparent plot hole.

[chimericoncogene]

That is why the biochip was necessary to explain why they so readily executed Order 66.

Still, it seems Order 66 should not have applied to Ahsoka. Remember this scene from RoboCop?

If I had been on the Clone Wars writing team, I would have added a short scene where Ahsoka is officially reinstated into the Jedi Order, the morning that Order 66 went in to effect (possibly by direct communication with a Jedi Master), with Rex and Jessie witnessing it, thus filling in this apparent plot hole.

It's hardly a plot hole. It's Rex using his brain like he's supposed to and interpreting Lord Sidious's orders properly and competently (in the framework imposed by the brain chip). In many military traditions, orders are supposed to be executed as per commander's intent (the commander here being Sidious), not literally and technically.

The Jedi Knights are to be executed for treason against the Republic, and the Jedi Order destroyed. Ahsoka isn't technically a Jedi, but sure as hell acts like one, and if she got to train someone, she could recreate the order. Ahsoka was still talking about helping everyone, and was, as per her smuggler friends, acting like a Jedi should.

If you had a orders to kill all Sith and destroy the Sith Order, would you not kill Darth Maul six months after he jumped ship from Palps (technically ejected from the Order of the Sith Lords) and was still talking about bringing about the fall of the Jedi Order and instating Sith Rule to the galaxy - typical Sith values?

(On the other hand, if Ahsoka had, say, joined the Dark Side and became a bounty hunter who constantly expressed her hatred of the Jedi Order and desire to destroy it... well, then Rex and Jesse might have had good reason to let her go; just as you might let Maul go if he became a criminal who hated the Sith Lords and was merely interested in power and credits - remember, your orders are to destroy the Sith, not the dark side)

If you're still worried about the plot hole, what Jesse says leaves room for the interpretation that Ahsoka was specifically marked for death by Darth Sidious ("by special order of Lord Sidious"). Also, they tried to use the plot hole specifically to get out, and it didn't work. There's no hole.

And Ahsoka going back would have made no sense in terms of character development. The Jedi Order was failing (Mace's plotting to overthrow the civilian government made that clear). Ahsoka leaving was a symptom of that, and she had to forge her own path and bring the Order back to the light herself.

[Lord Revan]

That is why the biochip was necessary to explain why they so readily executed Order 66.

Still, it seems Order 66 should not have applied to Ahsoka. Remember this scene from RoboCop?

If I had been on the Clone Wars writing team, I would have added a short scene where Ahsoka is officially reinstated into the Jedi Order, the morning that Order 66 went in to effect (possibly by direct communication with a Jedi Master), with Rex and Jessie witnessing it, thus filling in this apparent plot hole.

It's hardly a plot hole. It's Rex using his brain like he's supposed to and interpreting Lord Sidious's orders properly and competently (in the framework imposed by the brain chip). In many military traditions, orders are supposed to be executed as per commander's intent (the commander here being Sidious), not literally and technically.

The Jedi Knights are to be executed for treason against the Republic, and the Jedi Order destroyed. Ahsoka isn't technically a Jedi, but sure as hell acts like one, and if she got to train someone, she could recreate the order. Ahsoka was still talking about helping everyone, and was, as per her smuggler friends, acting like a Jedi should.

If you had a orders to kill all Sith and destroy the Sith Order, would you not kill Darth Maul six months after he jumped ship from Palps (technically ejected from the Order of the Sith Lords) and was still talking about bringing about the fall of the Jedi Order and instating Sith Rule to the galaxy - typical Sith values?

(On the other hand, if Ahsoka had, say, joined the Dark Side and became a bounty hunter who constantly expressed her hatred of the Jedi Order and desire to destroy it... well, then Rex and Jesse might have had good reason to let her go; just as you might let Maul go if he became a criminal who hated the Sith Lords and was merely interested in power and credits - remember, your orders are to destroy the Sith, not the dark side)

If you're still worried about the plot hole, what Jesse says leaves room for the interpretation that Ahsoka was specifically marked for death by Darth Sidious ("by special order of Lord Sidious"). Also, they tried to use the plot hole specifically to get out, and it didn't work. There's no hole.

Yeah Ahsoka isn't technically member of the Jedi order, but she's a Jedi in everything but name, Sidious wouldn't want to let her live as she could rebuild the order and without the flaws of the old order leaving less to exploit for the Sith.

And Ahsoka going back would have made no sense in terms of character development. The Jedi Order was failing (Mace's plotting to overthrow the civilian government made that clear). Ahsoka leaving was a symptom of that, and she had to forge her own path and bring the Order back to the light herself.

Yeah the whole point of Ahsoka's arc in season 6 and 7 is that she's become disillusioned with the Order and doesn't really want to rejoin until the Order shows they're worthy of her respect. That said Ahsoka did still have the values of the jedi.

[chimericoncogene]

More fundamentally, all Rex has to do to interpret his commander's intent (Palpatine's intent, in this case) is put himself in Lord Sidious's shoes.

Rex (and Jesse) merely have to ask themselves this: If I were Lord Sidious, and I wanted to destroy the Jedi, would I want Ahsoka Tano dead?

The answer often comes out to be yes. Some people might err towards no, but a vote of blasters indicates what the clones (under brain chip no-sympathy motivation-hijacking restrictions) believed the answer would be.

[chimericoncogene]

Just rewatched S2E6 "Weapons Factory", the one where Ahsoka and Barriss get sent to blow up a droid factory by themselves by crawling through a maze of catacombs.

The Jedi are quite awful people.

Sending superpowered kids to war is bad enough, but Luminara Unduli is very much willing to send 15-year old Padawans (children!) on a mission with poor chances of survival and limited strategic import, and perfectly willing to see them sacrificed in the line of duty.

Two friggin' kids get sent on a mission that turns into a suicide mission, and one of their bosses is reasonably okay with the idea. No wonder Barriss went crazy.

[FaxModem1]

Just rewatched S2E6 "Weapons Factory", the one where Ahsoka and Barriss get sent to blow up a droid factory by themselves by crawling through a maze of catacombs.

The Jedi are quite awful people.

Sending superpowered kids to war is bad enough, but Luminara Unduli is very much willing to send 15-year old Padawans (children!) on a mission with poor chances of survival and limited strategic import, and perfectly willing to see them sacrificed in the line of duty.

Two friggin' kids get sent on a mission that turns into a suicide mission, and one of their bosses is reasonably okay with the idea. No wonder Barriss went crazy.

Non-sequitur, but okay.

Maybe the Star Wars galaxy seems to view the age of people differently than we do. Padme took the reins of an entire planet at the wise old age of 14, after all.

[KraytKing]

It may be a non sequitur, but it does touch on something important that I don't think anyone has mentioned yet. I take issue with the idea that Jedi would be universally loved by the clones. How many times did Jedi pursue stupid tactics? You're a soldier so professional it can't be compared to anything we've ever seen and now your commanders are subordinated to a bunch of monks whose only credentials are being able to flip and previously holding a position of power. The Jedi have no clue how to plan campaigns or anything before the war starts, it all has to be learned on the job. They can lead men in small unit strikes, but even then they consistently get everyone with them killed before succeeding. They show no regard for injured men or the dead on campaigns; never once do we see Anakin, Kenobi, or Ahsoka pause and do some Force-healing on the dying. The battles are almost always "charge into the enemy and kill lots" without any creativity.

No, I don't think the clones like the Jedi much at all outside maybe a few cases. But even though I believe this argument, I hesitate to make it because it's arguing over a point that doesn't matter. I am in full agreement with Gandalf on this subject. The clones execute their orders because of discipline. The counterpoint FaxModem1 has offered on tribal mindset? Such a phenomenon would represent a tremendous failure of ten years of conditioning. They aren't supposed to make friends, they're supposed to fight a war. If orders from the top tell them to burn a village of civilians, they're supposed to follow them. Execute children? Follow orders. In fact, the Jedi turning traitor would probably be pretty damn believable. Intensely religious order, long independent from all government oversight, has a powerful sense of moral superiority, and is accustomed to being judge, jury, and executioner wherever they please? Makes total sense they might launch a coup. They're PERFECT for it. They have their own independent structure and a belief system that gives those at the top incredible power to manipulate the rest, and each one of them is a death machine. You could hardly craft a better force to seize power. So yeah, when orders come through that the army of fanatic Supermen could be traitorous? Hell yeah you shoot them. It is ENTIRELY believable that they would try such a thing, and if they are then the only chance you have is to kill them before they wise up, or you and a lot of your comrades are going to die.

That rambled a bit. TL;DR good soldiers follow orders and clones are the best, and also it totally makes sense for the Jedi to try and seize power.

[FaxModem1]

It may be a non sequitur, but it does touch on something important that I don't think anyone has mentioned yet. I take issue with the idea that Jedi would be universally loved by the clones. How many times did Jedi pursue stupid tactics? You're a soldier so professional it can't be compared to anything we've ever seen and now your commanders are subordinated to a bunch of monks whose only credentials are being able to flip and previously holding a position of power. The Jedi have no clue how to plan campaigns or anything before the war starts, it all has to be learned on the job. They can lead men in small unit strikes, but even then they consistently get everyone with them killed before succeeding. They show no regard for injured men or the dead on campaigns; never once do we see Anakin, Kenobi, or Ahsoka pause and do some Force-healing on the dying. The battles are almost always "charge into the enemy and kill lots" without any creativity.

No, I don't think the clones like the Jedi much at all outside maybe a few cases. But even though I believe this argument, I hesitate to make it because it's arguing over a point that doesn't matter. I am in full agreement with Gandalf on this subject. The clones execute their orders because of discipline. The counterpoint FaxModem1 has offered on tribal mindset? Such a phenomenon would represent a tremendous failure of ten years of conditioning. They aren't supposed to make friends, they're supposed to fight a war. If orders from the top tell them to burn a village of civilians, they're supposed to follow them. Execute children? Follow orders. In fact, the Jedi turning traitor would probably be pretty damn believable. Intensely religious order, long independent from all government oversight, has a powerful sense of moral superiority, and is accustomed to being judge, jury, and executioner wherever they please? Makes total sense they might launch a coup. They're PERFECT for it. They have their own independent structure and a belief system that gives those at the top incredible power to manipulate the rest, and each one of them is a death machine. You could hardly craft a better force to seize power. So yeah, when orders come through that the army of fanatic Supermen could be traitorous? Hell yeah you shoot them. It is ENTIRELY believable that they would try such a thing, and if they are then the only chance you have is to kill them before they wise up, or you and a lot of your comrades are going to die.

That rambled a bit. TL;DR good soldiers follow orders and clones are the best, and also it totally makes sense for the Jedi to try and seize power.

The issue with this idea is that the Clone discipline was already breaking down. They individualized, via Jedi encouragement. some even deserted the cause.

If desertion is possible, tribalism with your CO is possible.

[MKSheppard]

It's also worth noting that the order didn't necessarily have to come from Palpatine either...
...
Make of that what you will.

Gee Galvatron, it didn't take long for the Marvel/Disney SW EU Mark II to become shit again didn't it?

[MKSheppard]

Yeah, that's canon now thanks to that comic, but it's just so stupid, and inconsistent with the portrayl of Order 66 elsewhere...

We saw the old EU destroyed....for more of the same old shit? This is how you destroy a fandom.

The problems with a simple verbal trigger without specific commanders are limitless (malicious or accidental activation being chief among them)

Let's get serious for a moment.

They're all clones -- their training is tightly controlled by the Kaminoans.

Do you think the Jedi can check every single aspect of the cloning and training process to ensure that there are no hidden psychological traps like Order 66?

There's no need to have elaborate mental override bio chips.

You don't even need to hide it!

How many Jedi have gone rogue over the order's history?

*cough Count Dooku*

"So what are these Order 60 series, 61, 62, 63, and so on in the conditioning regime?"

"Well, you know how the clones are being conditioned to follow Jedi in accordance with Master Sifo Dyas' orders?"

"What if their Jedi goes bad like Grand Master STRAK? He'd then have an army of clones doing his bidding."

"Order 66 is a logical counter against rogue Jedi hostile to the Jedi Order and Republic trying to build up their own fiefdoms with fanatically loyal clone troops."

*Jedi Master Mace Windu has signed off on this*

Order 66 was likely deeply hidden in the 60 series; the others are "easy cake" logical stuff such as:

"Order 61, disobey your jedi if he orders you to execute an unlawful order."

And like others pointed out, Order 66 is likely programmed to only fire at Darth Sidious' command voice.

[Galvatron]

It's also worth noting that the order didn't necessarily have to come from Palpatine either...
...
Make of that what you will.

Gee Galvatron, it didn't take long for the Marvel/Disney SW EU Mark II to become shit again didn't it?

I dared to have such high hopes because I thought that the Lucasfilm Story Group would a) learn from the mistakes of the past and b) have at least some authority to prevent them from happening again.

[MKSheppard]

Dave Filoni is good, but not 100% good.

Like, if we have biochips...what the fuck was the point of the whole clone army rigamole through master sifo-dyas?

Just secretly implant biochips into your mass conscript army.

Bam, instant jedi killers who will feel no mercy or remorse or any feelings about killing jedi!

[Galvatron]

I'm not a prequel fan so I can't be bothered to invest much passion in their defense.

That being said, I'd imagine that the clone army served more than one purpose. Not only were they both heavily conditioned and implanted with chips to ensure that they would exterminate the Jedi, but the Separatists and even Republic dissenters could also scapegoat the Jedi for having ordered their creation in the first place.

I'd imagine that the political optics of the Jedi using an army of warrior slaves eroded their traditional stranglehold on the moral high-ground somewhat as well. It also gave Palpatine cover to say that the Republic was already neck-deep in Jedi-sanctioned slavery by the time he ordered reinforcements from the Kaminoans.

I wonder if the Empire didn't try to spin the whole thing as the Jedi getting their well-deserved comeuppance at the hands of the very slaves that they bought and they pressed into service. That might also explain why the Empire discontinued the practice.