Could the Fulminatrix have pierced the Raddus's shields?

[Galvatron]

Scene could have worked too if they were able to get actors from the PT, OT, and ST all in there. In addition to someone like Maz to represent the ST, with Lando and Wedge representing the OT, have someone like Dex and/or Hondo to represent the PT.

What, no Jar Jar?

[FaxModem1]

Scene could have worked too if they were able to get actors from the PT, OT, and ST all in there. In addition to someone like Maz to represent the ST, with Lando and Wedge representing the OT, have someone like Dex and/or Hondo to represent the PT.

What, no Jar Jar?

I'm assuming he was first against the wall after the fall of the Empire for his actions in granting the Chancellor so much power.

[Galvatron]

I believe this is from one of the Aftermath novels:

By the time of the Battle of Jakku, Binks was a street performer in the capital city of Theed, where he was scorned by adults but beloved by the children who came to watch his antics.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Jar_Jar_Binks

[ray245]

I believe this is from one of the Aftermath novels:

By the time of the Battle of Jakku, Binks was a street performer in the capital city of Theed, where he was scorned by adults but beloved by the children who came to watch his antics.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Jar_Jar_Binks

Basically how Jar Jar was received by audience in real life?

[Vendetta]

Yeah, it was lazily inserted because everyone loves that bit where it all looks lost but the reinforcements show up at the last second.

Except people love it when the reinforcements that show up are there because of personal connection to the characters doing the showing up or that they are showing up for or both not just because it happened.

And RoS didn't do that because none of the characters in it have a personal connection to anything, because that would mean having to take time build up characters as people and JJ can't do that it's hard so just make something explode and add dumb nerd fanservice like Chewie getting a medal instead.

It goes to show how underdeveloped the ST era is when most of the characters showing up in the fleet are people from the OT, as opposed to cameo by anyone new from the sequel era.

My point is that it shouldn't be a cameo at all, really.

It should be a character in the narrative. Like compare it to the arrival of the Rohirrim at the Battle of the Pelennor Field. That happens because it's the outcome of Theoden's character arc, and also because two of the point of view characters we have been following throughout, Merry and Pippin, have made it happen through rousing the Ents to defeat Saruman and freeing up the forces of Rohan. And both of them are present, in both the relieving force and the force under siege.

So we care about the characters that are doing it, and that are being rescued by it.

This is what a scene like that needs. It needs characters, not cameos. A thousand cameos from actors and characters who don't matter tot he narrative aren't worth one actual character.

(Fortnite girl does not count as a character, she doesn't have an arc nor are her actions instrumental in causing this event).

[channel73]

Don't forget that stupid tiny alien thing with a silly voice who fixes droids. He sure showed up to save the day.

The whole thing was just a result of the writers writing themselves into a corner. They introduce absurdly ridiculous stakes that would normally be laughably dismissed as the worst indulgences of a fan-fic writer (thousands of Death Star Star Destoyers!), if this movie was even distinguishable from an actual clever parody of bad Star Wars fanfic to begin with. There was no way to feasibly have the heroes overcome such odds, so they invent arbitrary limitations (some nonsense about how the ships are non-functional in atmosphere or whatever) and last-minute saves from a never-before-seen good-guy army. At least the stupid Ghost Army in Return of the King was minimally established beforehand.

[ray245]

My point is that it shouldn't be a cameo at all, really.

It should be a character in the narrative. Like compare it to the arrival of the Rohirrim at the Battle of the Pelennor Field. That happens because it's the outcome of Theoden's character arc, and also because two of the point of view characters we have been following throughout, Merry and Pippin, have made it happen through rousing the Ents to defeat Saruman and freeing up the forces of Rohan. And both of them are present, in both the relieving force and the force under siege.

So we care about the characters that are doing it, and that are being rescued by it.

This is what a scene like that needs. It needs characters, not cameos. A thousand cameos from actors and characters who don't matter tot he narrative aren't worth one actual character.

(Fortnite girl does not count as a character, she doesn't have an arc nor are her actions instrumental in causing this event).

But that requires the writers to actually agree with each other and have a clear and unified vision. They want the Endgame final scene but failed to do it well because there is no producer making sure things can carry over from the other movies.

Don't forget that stupid tiny alien thing with a silly voice who fixes droids. He sure showed up to save the day.

The whole thing was just a result of the writers writing themselves into a corner. They introduce absurdly ridiculous stakes that would normally be laughably dismissed as the worst indulgences of a fan-fic writer (thousands of Death Star Star Destoyers!), if this movie was even distinguishable from an actual clever parody of bad Star Wars fanfic to begin with. There was no way to feasibly have the heroes overcome such odds, so they invent arbitrary limitations (some nonsense about how the ships are non-functional in atmosphere or whatever) and last-minute saves from a never-before-seen good-guy army. At least the stupid Ghost Army in Return of the King was minimally established beforehand.

I used to think, and was taught to think that your average fanfic writer is worse than your average Hollywood writer. Now I know bad fanfic writing is just a precursor to the state of writing we have in general in pop media.

Which speaks badly of just how bad the quality of writing in Hollywood has become if fanfic-tier writing is approved by reputable producers.

[Vendetta]

My point is that it shouldn't be a cameo at all, really.

It should be a character in the narrative. Like compare it to the arrival of the Rohirrim at the Battle of the Pelennor Field. That happens because it's the outcome of Theoden's character arc, and also because two of the point of view characters we have been following throughout, Merry and Pippin, have made it happen through rousing the Ents to defeat Saruman and freeing up the forces of Rohan. And both of them are present, in both the relieving force and the force under siege.

So we care about the characters that are doing it, and that are being rescued by it.

This is what a scene like that needs. It needs characters, not cameos. A thousand cameos from actors and characters who don't matter tot he narrative aren't worth one actual character.

(Fortnite girl does not count as a character, she doesn't have an arc nor are her actions instrumental in causing this event).

But that requires the writers to actually agree with each other and have a clear and unified vision. They want the Endgame final scene but failed to do it well because there is no producer making sure things can carry over from the other movies.

Not really, it just required basic storytelling and character building competence. The components for this to have worked were actually present, just have one thread of the plot be a character gathering those reinforcements, encountering and overcoming resistance just in time to bring them.

They could have done that instead of any of the irrelevant bullshit that didn't move a character forwards at all (eg. "oh noes C3PO can't read the dagger without killing himself except also he gets restored from backup so it never happened".

Sadly they had Chris Terio and JJ Abrams, who couldn't tell the story of how they escaped a wet paper bag.

[channel73]

I used to think, and was taught to think that your average fanfic writer is worse than your average Hollywood writer. Now I know bad fanfic writing is just a precursor to the state of writing we have in general in pop media.

Which speaks badly of just how bad the quality of writing in Hollywood has become if fanfic-tier writing is approved by reputable producers.

Yeah, it's pretty sad. Although, a post-mortem analysis indicates to me that a lot of the problem was also on the executive level, with the firing of previous directors, rushing the schedule, etc. Like for example, there are some pieces of RoS that are clearly vestigial remnants of an earlier script where they originally had more context or build-up. For example, in the leaked Trevorrow script (Duel of the Fates), they also had a scene where Lando appears at the last minute with a huge fleet to save the day. Except, in that script, they had earlier established a subplot where Leia goes undercover in the criminal underworld to ask Lando to put together a fleet of smugglers who can help out.

I'm not saying that the earlier scripts were any good either, but it's clear that RoS is basically a Frankenstein-like copy-paste amalgamation of various ideas and plot threads that were haphazardly thrown together with the bare minimum of connective tissue or story-telling cohesion. This type of thing makes me feel like the blame is not only the talentless fan-fic writing, but also the entire production being mismanaged from the top down.

[ray245]

Not really, it just required basic storytelling and character building competence. The components for this to have worked were actually present, just have one thread of the plot be a character gathering those reinforcements, encountering and overcoming resistance just in time to bring them.

They could have done that instead of any of the irrelevant bullshit that didn't move a character forwards at all (eg. "oh noes C3PO can't read the dagger without killing himself except also he gets restored from backup so it never happened".

Sadly they had Chris Terio and JJ Abrams, who couldn't tell the story of how they escaped a wet paper bag.

You're still not going to get a big enough cast of secondary characters for their last minute appearance to have any resonance to the audience.

Yeah, it's pretty sad. Although, a post-mortem analysis indicates to me that a lot of the problem was also on the executive level, with the firing of previous directors, rushing the schedule, etc. Like for example, there are some pieces of RoS that are clearly vestigial remnants of an earlier script where they originally had more context or build-up. For example, in the leaked Trevorrow script (Duel of the Fates), they also had a scene where Lando appears at the last minute with a huge fleet to save the day. Except, in that script, they had earlier established a subplot where Leia goes undercover in the criminal underworld to ask Lando to put together a fleet of smugglers who can help out.

I'm not saying that the earlier scripts were any good either, but it's clear that RoS is basically a Frankenstein-like copy-paste amalgamation of various ideas and plot threads that were haphazardly thrown together with the bare minimum of connective tissue or story-telling cohesion. This type of thing makes me feel like the blame is not only the talentless fan-fic writing, but also the entire production being mismanaged from the top down.

Which is why it's utterly important for the producers to have a clear vision of what they want to do with the story. Without the producers having a clear vision, you end up with directors throwing stuff on the screen until it sticks. Especially when you do hire directors like JJ Abrams, who don't care about world-building at all.

[Vendetta]

Not really, it just required basic storytelling and character building competence. The components for this to have worked were actually present, just have one thread of the plot be a character gathering those reinforcements, encountering and overcoming resistance just in time to bring them.

They could have done that instead of any of the irrelevant bullshit that didn't move a character forwards at all (eg. "oh noes C3PO can't read the dagger without killing himself except also he gets restored from backup so it never happened".

Sadly they had Chris Terio and JJ Abrams, who couldn't tell the story of how they escaped a wet paper bag.

You're still not going to get a big enough cast of secondary characters for their last minute appearance to have any resonance to the audience.

That's why you use a primary character gathering them as the plot thread. Because then the satisfaction of them appearing is tied to resolving the struggles a character went through to bring them.

It isn't hard, it doesn't require some overarching vision for inter-movie storytelling, it just needs a good writer for the individual movie.

[The Romulan Republic]

Yeah, I think that's a point that's often overlooked, in general.

There seems to be an idea common in fandoms these days, perhaps brought on in part by Marvel's success, that you need a long series of movies to set up a story before you can tell it. Like when people say the DC films failed because they didn't do a bunch of standalone movies for all the heroes before a team film, like Marvel.

But that's rubbish. Every first film in a series, and every stand alone movie ever, has to introduce its characters, concepts, and setting, and tell a coherent story with them, without the benefit of multiple films of setup. Hell, Marvel did an excellent job of it themselves in Guardians of the Galaxy, which at the time it came out had very little from any of the earlier Marvel films in it, and nothing you had to have seen any of those other films to understand. The connections to the larger Marvel universe came later.

A good movie can tell its own story in its own time, even if its part of a larger series. Even if it features a large team/ensemble cast. The original Star Wars did.

While keeping all the directors and writers on the same page from the start and keeping to at least the outline of an overall plan might have helped, the failure to do so is not what killed the ST. What killed the ST is that they hired (with the exception of Johnson, who at least tried) hacks with, seemingly, no clear ideas other than "appease fans, make money".

[ray245]

That's why you use a primary character gathering them as the plot thread. Because then the satisfaction of them appearing is tied to resolving the struggles a character went through to bring them.

It isn't hard, it doesn't require some overarching vision for inter-movie storytelling, it just needs a good writer for the individual movie.

But you won't get to know the characters all that well. Not if you want the primary characters to gather enough allies to make the big final fleet surprise work. The bigger your fleet is, the more time you need to spend to make people care about who is manning all those ships. Avengers Endgame worked because you are seeing allies of different factions all coming together.

Yeah, I think that's a point that's often overlooked, in general.

There seems to be an idea common in fandoms these days, perhaps brought on in part by Marvel's success, that you need a long series of movies to set up a story before you can tell it. Like when people say the DC films failed because they didn't do a bunch of standalone movies for all the heroes before a team film, like Marvel.

But that's rubbish. Every first film in a series, and every stand alone movie ever, has to introduce its characters, concepts, and setting, and tell a coherent story with them, without the benefit of multiple films of setup. Hell, Marvel did an excellent job of it themselves in Guardians of the Galaxy, which at the time it came out had very little from any of the earlier Marvel films in it, and nothing you had to have seen any of those other films to understand. The connections to the larger Marvel universe came later.

A good movie can tell its own story in its own time, even if its part of a larger series. Even if it features a large team/ensemble cast. The original Star Wars did.

While keeping all the directors and writers on the same page from the start and keeping to at least the outline of an overall plan might have helped, the failure to do so is not what killed the ST. What killed the ST is that they hired (with the exception of Johnson, who at least tried) hacks with, seemingly, no clear ideas other than "appease fans, make money".

The story you can tell is limited by the amount of information the audience has access to. Like most TV series today, you are not going to be able to follow what is going on with the final season if you didn't watch the early few seasons. You can introduce new charactes, new setting and concepts. But your audience will not stay invested in all those stuff until you ensure there is sufficient development for people to care about it.

The problem with the sequels is there is barely any development made in trying to make the audience give a shit about the Galaxy far far away. JJ Abrams as usual is shit at creating a universe that can make people care deeply about the world as a whole, and Rian Johnson tried to do something, but ended up making the war in the sequels look like a small bush-fire conflict that no one really cares about.

[Vendetta]

That's why you use a primary character gathering them as the plot thread. Because then the satisfaction of them appearing is tied to resolving the struggles a character went through to bring them.

It isn't hard, it doesn't require some overarching vision for inter-movie storytelling, it just needs a good writer for the individual movie.

But you won't get to know the characters all that well. Not if you want the primary characters to gather enough allies to make the big final fleet surprise work. The bigger your fleet is, the more time you need to spend to make people care about who is manning all those ships. Avengers Endgame worked because you are seeing allies of different factions all coming together.

But you don't need to.

Like you keep referring back to Endgame as if it's the only time this has ever happened in fiction and so the only way it can possibly work, but it isn't. It's actually a well worn plot device where last minute reinforcements save the day.

I already mentioned the Rohirrim, but the Battle of the Pelennor does it twice, with Aragorn leading reinforcements from the south. We don't know anything about the reinforcements he brings (to the extent that the movies actually skipped the bit where he changes one set for another), because they're not important, the important bit is that Aragorn did something personally significant on the journey to bring them (accepted his birthright as king of Gondor which he was otherwise reluctant to do).

The reinforcements could have been the exact faceless masses they were in Rise of Skywalker, if they were led there by a main character and we had followed their progress in convincing them to come.

And there was so much wasted time in Rise of Skywalker where nothing of consequence happened except a series of macguffins got chased that this could easily have fit into the movie.

[ray245]

But you don't need to.

Like you keep referring back to Endgame as if it's the only time this has ever happened in fiction and so the only way it can possibly work, but it isn't. It's actually a well worn plot device where last minute reinforcements save the day.

I already mentioned the Rohirrim, but the Battle of the Pelennor does it twice, with Aragorn leading reinforcements from the south. We don't know anything about the reinforcements he brings (to the extent that the movies actually skipped the bit where he changes one set for another), because they're not important, the important bit is that Aragorn did something personally significant on the journey to bring them (accepted his birthright as king of Gondor which he was otherwise reluctant to do).

The reinforcements could have been the exact faceless masses they were in Rise of Skywalker, if they were led there by a main character and we had followed their progress in convincing them to come.

And there was so much wasted time in Rise of Skywalker where nothing of consequence happened except a series of macguffins got chased that this could easily have fit into the movie.

In LOTR, they gave us internal reasons why the reinforcements showed up at the last minute. Internal disagreement between the ruling family ( Rohan), mythical ghost army that broke the bond of alliances ( and the Southern area under attack) are compelling reasons why it took time for reinforcement to be assembled.

The problem is TLJ made it difficult to do that, because they set up a scenario in which the NR fleet is somehow utterly incapable of regrouping, or outright ignoring the calls of the resistance for help. You had to solve the issue of why did no one showed up at the end of TLJ.

[Vendetta]

Not really. Because The Last Jedi also set up a reason why people would come, the story of Luke Skywalker standing alone against the First Order and humiliating them. Like it specifically shows at the end of the movie that that should be the thing that sparks a wider rebellion. There's a scene that does that at the end of the movie.

Rise of Skywalker ignored that because it was written by people who don't know how to do stories and were too interested in idiot fanservice for idiots so they pretended the entire second movie in the trilogy never happened.

[ray245]

Not really. Because The Last Jedi also set up a reason why people would come, the story of Luke Skywalker standing alone against the First Order and humiliating them. Like it specifically shows at the end of the movie that that should be the thing that sparks a wider rebellion. There's a scene that does that at the end of the movie.

Rise of Skywalker ignored that because it was written by people who don't know how to do stories and were too interested in idiot fanservice for idiots so they pretended the entire second movie in the trilogy never happened.

The spark would have worked better if there isn't a mere one year time gap between the movies. That said, in order to spark a wider rebellion, you need to ensure you can show the rest of the galaxy have the resources to mount a assault against the First Order.

In the OT, we saw the Rebel Alliance is not limited to a tiny bunch of people stuck within one capital ship.

[Vendetta]

The spark would have worked better if there isn't a mere one year time gap between the movies. That said, in order to spark a wider rebellion, you need to ensure you can show the rest of the galaxy have the resources to mount a assault against the First Order.

The amount of time between the two stories is entirely in the realm of RoS's writers. The Last Jedi doesn't do anything that imposes any time constraint on what follows it (in the way TFA did by ending on a hanging action).

It could have been a year, it could have been two or three like the gap between Star Wars and ESB.

[Solauren]

Hell, it could have been 2 weeks

[Elfdart]

In The Last Jedi, the Fulminatrix destroys the Resistance base from orbit, and is destroyed by bombers before it can target the Resistance fleet in a attack lead by Poe. If this ship had survived, could it have pierced the Raddus's shields during the long 18 hour chase?

If so, would range have mattered for the long chase that they engaged in?

Discuss.

Congratulations! You just spent more time thinking about the "plot" of this movie than Rian Johnson did. If the Fulminatrix could have made short work of what was left of Leia's squadron, then the attack was justified -orders be damned. If not, it didn't matter much anyway since the bad guys were able to track them down and pounce on them. The ensuing battle was little more than a science fiction bum fight.

Or Leia/Holdo could have just locked him up, lest he react poorly to something and try his own plan.

Aside from her ridiculous costume, this was my only issue with Holdo.

I got where Johnson was going with this storyline, since it was used in classic films like Run Silent Run Deep, Dawn Patrol and Flying Leathernecks where Clark Gable, Basil Rathbone and John Wayne (respectively) come across as dickish at first, but later it's their rebellious subordinates who realize the commander was right all along. The problem here is that so many people have seen this done much better that even if Johnson was a reasonably competent filmmaker, it would still fall flat -and I say this as someone who has had a crush on Laura Dern since 1985.

In Rick Worley's hilarious video ranking all the Star Wars movies and TV shows, he asks why Leia is sidelined for Holdo and I'm pretty sure that Johnson knew whoever was in charge of the Resistance would come off badly and introduced a new character to take the heat that would have otherwise gone to Leia.

[The Romulan Republic]

My point is that it shouldn't be a cameo at all, really.

It should be a character in the narrative. Like compare it to the arrival of the Rohirrim at the Battle of the Pelennor Field. That happens because it's the outcome of Theoden's character arc, and also because two of the point of view characters we have been following throughout, Merry and Pippin, have made it happen through rousing the Ents to defeat Saruman and freeing up the forces of Rohan. And both of them are present, in both the relieving force and the force under siege.

So we care about the characters that are doing it, and that are being rescued by it.

This is what a scene like that needs. It needs characters, not cameos. A thousand cameos from actors and characters who don't matter tot he narrative aren't worth one actual character.

(Fortnite girl does not count as a character, she doesn't have an arc nor are her actions instrumental in causing this event).

But that requires the writers to actually agree with each other and have a clear and unified vision. They want the Endgame final scene but failed to do it well because there is no producer making sure things can carry over from the other movies.

Don't forget that stupid tiny alien thing with a silly voice who fixes droids. He sure showed up to save the day.

The whole thing was just a result of the writers writing themselves into a corner. They introduce absurdly ridiculous stakes that would normally be laughably dismissed as the worst indulgences of a fan-fic writer (thousands of Death Star Star Destoyers!), if this movie was even distinguishable from an actual clever parody of bad Star Wars fanfic to begin with. There was no way to feasibly have the heroes overcome such odds, so they invent arbitrary limitations (some nonsense about how the ships are non-functional in atmosphere or whatever) and last-minute saves from a never-before-seen good-guy army. At least the stupid Ghost Army in Return of the King was minimally established beforehand.

I used to think, and was taught to think that your average fanfic writer is worse than your average Hollywood writer. Now I know bad fanfic writing is just a precursor to the state of writing we have in general in pop media.

Which speaks badly of just how bad the quality of writing in Hollywood has become if fanfic-tier writing is approved by reputable producers.

The are actually some good fanfics, and a lot that are far, far worse than what we saw in RoS (mainly the infinite porn fics). But a lot of fanfic suffers from the problem of being, essentially, a mouthpiece for niche factions within the fan community to grind their favorite axes, bash characters they don't like, and wank the stuff they do like viewed through nostalgia goggles.

And there's a common problem I've noticed in media today where writers, directors, and producers are essentially, increasingly, copying fanfic/fandom trends in canon materials. This is probably largely a result of two factors:

The first is the increased dominance of social media and creators interacting with fans on social media. This gives factions of the fandom a platform by which to push their agenda directly to creators, to directly harass and bully them if they don't comply, and puts immense pressure on creators to "give the fans what they want" (even when it really means just "pandering to the most vocal and vicious faction of the fandom, because pleasing all of them is an obvious impossibility).

The second is the fact that in long-running franchises, many of the creators are fans who have grown up with those decades of axes to grind and nostalgia goggles and are now running the show. See Stephen Moffat, Peter Jackson, JJ Abrams, etc. Which is exacerbated by the online fans who demand that they "hire a real fan".

This is why I'm not happy when I hear that they've "hired a fan". I inwardly cringe. Because what I want is a professional, someone with the detachment to act in the best interest of the franchise, not pushing their personal wishlist, and I know that a fan is less likely to give us that.

[ray245]

My point is that it shouldn't be a cameo at all, really.

It should be a character in the narrative. Like compare it to the arrival of the Rohirrim at the Battle of the Pelennor Field. That happens because it's the outcome of Theoden's character arc, and also because two of the point of view characters we have been following throughout, Merry and Pippin, have made it happen through rousing the Ents to defeat Saruman and freeing up the forces of Rohan. And both of them are present, in both the relieving force and the force under siege.

So we care about the characters that are doing it, and that are being rescued by it.

This is what a scene like that needs. It needs characters, not cameos. A thousand cameos from actors and characters who don't matter tot he narrative aren't worth one actual character.

(Fortnite girl does not count as a character, she doesn't have an arc nor are her actions instrumental in causing this event).

But that requires the writers to actually agree with each other and have a clear and unified vision. They want the Endgame final scene but failed to do it well because there is no producer making sure things can carry over from the other movies.

Don't forget that stupid tiny alien thing with a silly voice who fixes droids. He sure showed up to save the day.

The whole thing was just a result of the writers writing themselves into a corner. They introduce absurdly ridiculous stakes that would normally be laughably dismissed as the worst indulgences of a fan-fic writer (thousands of Death Star Star Destoyers!), if this movie was even distinguishable from an actual clever parody of bad Star Wars fanfic to begin with. There was no way to feasibly have the heroes overcome such odds, so they invent arbitrary limitations (some nonsense about how the ships are non-functional in atmosphere or whatever) and last-minute saves from a never-before-seen good-guy army. At least the stupid Ghost Army in Return of the King was minimally established beforehand.

I used to think, and was taught to think that your average fanfic writer is worse than your average Hollywood writer. Now I know bad fanfic writing is just a precursor to the state of writing we have in general in pop media.

Which speaks badly of just how bad the quality of writing in Hollywood has become if fanfic-tier writing is approved by reputable producers.

The are actually some good fanfics, and a lot that are far, far worse than what we saw in RoS (mainly the infinite porn fics). But a lot of fanfic suffers from the problem of being, essentially, a mouthpiece for niche factions within the fan community to grind their favorite axes, bash characters they don't like, and wank the stuff they do like viewed through nostalgia goggles.

And there's a common problem I've noticed in media today where writers, directors, and producers are essentially, increasingly, copying fanfic/fandom trends in canon materials. This is probably largely a result of two factors:

The first is the increased dominance of social media and creators interacting with fans on social media. This gives factions of the fandom a platform by which to push their agenda directly to creators, to directly harass and bully them if they don't comply, and puts immense pressure on creators to "give the fans what they want" (even when it really means just "pandering to the most vocal and vicious faction of the fandom, because pleasing all of them is an obvious impossibility).

The second is the fact that in long-running franchises, many of the creators are fans who have grown up with those decades of axes to grind and nostalgia goggles and are now running the show. See Stephen Moffat, Peter Jackson, JJ Abrams, etc. Which is exacerbated by the online fans who demand that they "hire a real fan".

This is why I'm not happy when I hear that they've "hired a fan". I inwardly cringe. Because what I want is a professional, someone with the detachment to act in the best interest of the franchise, not pushing their personal wishlist, and I know that a fan is less likely to give us that.

I remember fanfics used to be an insult rather than a form of praise for writers. That there was an awareness of the popular tropes that often emerges in fanfics, and a desire by any aspiring fanfic writers to avoid those tropes or pitfalls.

I mean Lucasfilm outright hired a fanboy who went onto forums and posted about how Lucas destroyed his childhood.

[The Romulan Republic]

Yeah. The overriding goal all along for Disney and Lucasfilm was clearly to appease the little brats who whinged on the internet for twenty years about how much the Prequels sucked, and that overroad pretty much every other consideration. The result: predictably shit. The only one among the writers/directors/producers who seriously tried to buck that directive (and wasn't promptly fired) was arguably Rian Johnson, and he still got thrown under the bus hard.

[ray245]

Yeah. The overriding goal all along for Disney and Lucasfilm was clearly to appease the little brats who whinged on the internet for twenty years about how much the Prequels sucked, and that overroad pretty much every other consideration. The result: predictably shit. The only one among the writers/directors/producers who seriously tried to buck that directive (and wasn't promptly fired) was arguably Rian Johnson, and he still got thrown under the bus hard.

I don't think Rian Johnson is as bad as some people are making him out to be, but neither was he that good of a director with TLJ. The ones that really made effective Star Wars film was Tony Gilroy and Ron Howard. Because they are the ones who aren't fans or little kids who grew up with Star Wars.

On the other hand, Mandalorian worked because Jon Favreau understood the purpose behind Lucas' work. He was not interested in mimicking the style of the OT, but the substance of Lucas' vision ( i.e. pushing boundaries with filmmaking). Dave Filoni on the other hand is a fan of Star Wars, but he's a fan that could enjoy the PT on their own terms and didn't end up as a man-child crying about how the prequels destroyed his childhood.

[Patroklos]

Of course, if Poe had called the abort when he was told to and the Resistance had jumped, they would have had time to jump again before the Fulminatrix could retask from its bombardment of their now-evacuated base and follow them, even if it also had an active tracker.

So whether it could pierce the shields is irrelevant, it wouldn't have gotten to fire at them because they would have disappeared.

The first shot from the Fulminatrix hit just seconds before the last transport left the base. There is zero indication Leia would have cut loose anyone, evidenced by the fact that she didn't jump and leave behind the forces disobeying her orders (if she had, all the Rebel capital ships survive unless a random Resurgent breaks off to track them independently. Leia fucked up more than Poe and her decision was based on nothing but emotion, as almost all of the starfighters she would have left behind had hyperdrives. Only a few of starfighters were recovered by waiting anyway).

There is no reason to think the Raddus itself wasn't in range at the time of the planetary shot, there is no way for the Resistance know who the FO was going to shoot first, so they were all being stupid by waiting around at all once the Fulminatrix showed up.

We keep trying to massage logic into any of the battles of this trilogy despite every detail of them not making sense for either side. It's okay to just call it stupid and leave it at that, whether you like the rest of the elements of the movies or not.