Revamping Buffy Season 8: Slayers Around the World and their Organiation

[Majin Gojira]

I've been thinking of Buffy as of late, and I wanted to at least work out in print/spitball some thoughts on Season 8 through 12 of the series (the comics, for those that don’t remember). They do have their shining moments, and some nifty ideas, but they also have quite a few (big) stumbles.

For those that don't remember, Season 7 ended with Slayers being called all around the world, granting young women/teenagers Superhuman Strength, Speed, Agility, Durability, and Recovery, as well as a subconscious collective connection with all slayers current and past resulting in inherited muscle memory for combat and a shared dreamscape (something only recently revealed in an official tie-in novel, basically meaning when they go to sleep at the same time, they can share the same dreamspace), as well as precognitive dreams. They also shrug off how scary various monsters are.

The first issue of the comic claimed there were about 2000 slayers, with 800 working with Buffy in her (unnamed) group. And throguhout the series despite how many die, the number seems to remain steady. So, I did some basic population dynamics for the Slayers and without factoring in things like possible mystical hotspots, I ended up with this as a list of the highest Slayer producing countries based only on population:

• China: 364
  India: 350
  United States: 85.8
  Indonesia: 55.6
  Pakistan: 55.6
  Brazil: 54.8
  Nigeria: 50.6
  Bangladesh: 43.2
  Russia: 38.4
  Japan: 33.2
  Mexico: 32.6
  Philippines: 27.8
  Egypt: 25.4
  Ethiopia: 24.8
  Vietnam: 24.6
  Germany: 21.6
  Iran: 21.4
  The Democratic Republic of the Congo: 21.4
  Turkey: 21.2
  Thailand: 19.9
  United Kingdom: 19.39

On a broader scope, by continent:

• Asia: 1201.8
  Africa: 327.2
  Europe:188
  North America:155.8
  South America:113.6
  Oceana: 10.8

Which got me thinking about what groups out there could possibly form when this occurs? Buffy and her friends found and recruited 800, but what about the rest?

The comic hinted at some possibilities. The most potent was Simone Doffler's group of renegade Slayers who went all in on Slayer's superiority to regular humans. A similar trend could sprout up among Aristocrats demonstrated by Genevieve Savidge who fancied herself to become "Queen of the Slayers" by assassinating Buffy.

But what else could come about?

The most obvious idea would be for various institutions (likely religious) to pick them up. My first thought was the Catholic Chuch, who by my estimations could get their mits into about 300 Slayers just on population mechanics alone. But who else?

By population mechanics, Evangelicals could only really have influence over about 19 of them, and the largest single group of Evangelicals int he US (Southern Baptist Convention) would only nab 4 of them. Not exactly a massive force to recon with.

But what are your thoughts on the idea? What groups would try to recruit Slayers into their midst? What groups would Slayers themselves form?

[The Romulan Republic]

I could see some military forces trying to get their hands on the new super soldiers. A Slayer could make a good career as a private military contractor/private security (Kennedy ended up forming a squad that did this later in the comics). I could see some going into entertainment, actually- reality stars, athletes (although would being a Slayer count as cheating?), stunt work, etc. Organized crime as well, joining or forming their own gangs.

[madd0ct0r]

I could see some military forces trying to get their hands on the new super soldiers. A Slayer could make a good career as a private military contractor/private security (Kennedy ended up forming a squad that did this later in the comics). I could see some going into entertainment, actually- reality stars, athletes (although would being a Slayer count as cheating?), stunt work, etc. Organized crime as well, joining or forming their own gangs.

That could be hilarious if Slayer destiny still holds. Buffy ended up in Sunnydale because her mum found a new house and gallery. But it was the universe pulling b to the hellmouth.

Any military taking up slayers is going to quickly find themselves drawn into strangeness with a couple of 'cursed' units.

[The Romulan Republic]

That destiny's going to be spread around a bit, but yeah.

Also recall that some vampires specifically seek out Slayers to target. Spike is the most notable and persistent, but he's not the only one.

Which also gives Slayers a motive to band together or join other groups that can support them.

[Solauren]

Imagine groups of slayers in some of the worse areas of the world getting together and going 'fuck this local warlord....'

[The Romulan Republic]

Or becoming the local warlords.

[Solauren]

Or becoming the local warlords.

I was assuming that would be a natural consequence of taking out the warlords. You know 'careful how you fight monsters, less you become them'

[The Romulan Republic]

I wonder to what extent Buffy and company try to control outside Slayers. I think it was touched on some times in the comics, but its a really interesting question.

While you'd think Buffy would empathize with Slayers who want to live their own life, she also has some very strong views about what a Slayer is supposed to be, and Giles is likely to want to focus on tradition and duty to some extent. In Angel we see that the Sunnydale veterans see a deranged rogue Slayer as their responsibility, which is all well and good- they are responsible, given they activated all the Slayers to fight the First. But what what happens if they try to dictate terms to independent Slayers who know nothing about the Council or duty or destiny, aren't interested in signing up to Buffy's group, and may even resent Buffy and company for dragging them into a world they knew nothing of and want no part of without their consent?

Buffy and company can't just ignore rogue Slayers. They're an enormous threat, and if they don't deal with rogue Slayers, other, even more unsavory groups will (governments will also likely take an even dimmer view of Slayers if they can't police their own). But at the same time, they don't really have the right to dictate to every Slayer in the world how they live their life.

[B5B7]

Buffy and Willow created all those other slayers and so have a responsibility to them. In turn those slayers have a duty given to them by having their special powers. When there was only one slayer they had very short lives; any slayer who thinks they can do it alone won't last long, they need the support that Buffy and her friends can provide, plus the training. The Council under the slayers does have a right to guide the other slayers; indeed they may even have a divine mandate from the Powers That Be.

Also Buffy and her Council have a duty to humanity to protect people from slayers, and to make sure slayers do what they were created to do.
Faith, having been on the other side, would be a strong supporter of slayers being held responsible, due to her redemption in seasons five to seven.

[The Romulan Republic]

Buffy and Willow created all those other slayers and so have a responsibility to them. In turn those slayers have a duty given to them by having their special powers. When there was only one slayer they had very short lives; any slayer who thinks they can do it alone won't last long, they need the support that Buffy and her friends can provide, plus the training. The Council under the slayers does have a right to guide the other slayers; indeed they may even have a divine mandate from the Powers That Be.

Also Buffy and her Council have a duty to humanity to protect people from slayers, and to make sure slayers do what they were created to do.
Faith, having been on the other side, would be a strong supporter of slayers being held responsible, due to her redemption in seasons five to seven.

So some random girl who was made a Slayer without her knowledge or permission is therefore obligated to take orders from Buffy and her friends, and devote her whole life to their crusade? That's at best conscription by a non-state actor, and at worst slavery. That would make Buffy no better than the old Watcher's Council. It would also encourage resentment and rebellion.

I'd say a middle road is better here: Let Slayers live their own lives as they please, provided they don't attack other humans/ensouled beings/allies or use their powers to commit criminal acts. If they do, come down hard. If they don't, give them basic information and support and then let them decide how closely involved they want to be.

Here's how (comics aside) I imagine a good set-up post-series looking:

Sr. Council: Basically any Sunnydale veterans who want to remain involved. Over time, as members retire or perish, the spots could be filled either by election, or by appointment, or by recommendation of a sitting councilor. Decisions outside of combat to be made democratically by the council, but during combat the Head of the Council (or, in their absence, the senior-most councilor or commander present) has absolute authority.

Set up a surveilance system (probably a mix of magical and a computer database) to locate and monitor Slayers and related supernatural phenomena. When a Slayer is located, the Council sends a representative to make contact, explain the basics of what a Slayer is and how it works, and then give them a choice. There are three basic options:

1. Go your own way, live your life as you please, but if we catch you using your powers to harm humans or other ensouled beings, we will take you down. Otherwise, non-interference, but here's our contact information if you change your mind or need help or have info for us down the line.

2. Come back to HQ. We'll give you the basic training course, then send you home. In exchange, you will then be responsible for reporting on any threats or allies you encounter in your area, but otherwise be free to operate independently, unless you request backup from the Council, or the Council determines you are unable to deal with the situation on your own. We'll also give you a list of useful contacts or other Slayers in your area. Basically, these are reserves/part-timers.

3. Join full-time. You'll be given more extensive training, paid a salary and given an expense account by the Council, and either assigned a Watcher and assigned to a full-time posting in the field, or given a position at HQ (training, security, strike force, etc.).

[Solauren]

You know, you have to consider something.

Even using the Scythe as the power source for the ritual, it was shown in the series that all Slayers are powered by demonic energy.

When Willow powered up the slayers, did she basically cause demonic energy to violate 1000+ girls?

[The Romulan Republic]

You know, you have to consider something.

Even using the Scythe as the power source for the ritual, it was shown in the series that all Slayers are powered by demonic energy.

When Willow powered up the slayers, did she basically cause demonic energy to violate 1000+ girls?

I took it more as releasing the locks on the potential power that was already there, allowing them to access and control it.

[Solauren]

That's still alot of girls that now have active demonic energy in them.

I think they're be an effort to find and cleanse them of the energy, preferably without hurting them.

[FaxModem1]

This is probably why the original Watchers Council was rather hands off in their treatment of rebellious slayers. If a slayer is uncooperative, wait a couple years, and a new one would emerge to help them on missions. With all of them activated at once, that clearly isn't an option, and they have to find some way to motivate the slayers to join their cause. Buffy is remarkable in that she had a real sense of civic duty from day one. Her tactics needed work, but she was very dedicated to the cause most of the time because as Giles pointed out to her, people will die if she does nothing.

Not everyone is as morally upstanding as Buffy, though. If I were to guess, the Watchers gambled on slayers, not knowing who would be next in line, and tried to hedge their bets as much as they could by raising as many Potentials as they could. They clearly couldn't train everyone, and we know there were some Slayers that they brought into the fold and trained, such as Kendra and other Potentials, with Buffy only being brought in due to being activated. Hell, how many of them never got called, and just became members of the Watchers Council after a few decades? What if Gwen Post was a potential Slayer that just never got called?

It's notable that in season 7, the reason so many Potentials joined their cause in the first place was to find safety from the First, Caleb, and the Bringers. And they were still dubious about following Buffy's orders for a while. After that, they viewed themselves as in a war against the forces of evil and continued to be so. We also do know that in season 8, Buffy funded everything due to leading a bunch of morally dubious slayers in some bank robbing sprees. I imagine that there were more than a few Slayers simply there for the paycheck.

I wouldn't be surprised if more than a couple slayers were well paid by their governments to fight evil on their terms. Or deal with problematic 'enemies of the state', etc.

[The Romulan Republic]

That's still alot of girls that now have active demonic energy in them.

I think they're be an effort to find and cleanse them of the energy, preferably without hurting them.

There are demons and demons in the Buffyverse. Not all "demonic" entities are inherently malevolent. And forcibly stripping them of that power would be every bit as much a violation as forcibly imbuing them with it was.

This is probably why the original Watchers Council was rather hands off in their treatment of rebellious slayers. If a slayer is uncooperative, wait a couple years, and a new one would emerge to help them on missions. With all of them activated at once, that clearly isn't an option, and they have to find some way to motivate the slayers to join their cause. Buffy is remarkable in that she had a real sense of civic duty from day one. Her tactics needed work, but she was very dedicated to the cause most of the time because as Giles pointed out to her, people will die if she does nothing.

Well, there's also the tradition thing. Slayers may be expendable, but at the same time, the Council probably has strong taboos against killing them (and humans in general). Especially as Watchers who have actually worked with a Slayer may often get attached. They do have their wetworks team, but its notable that even when Buffy was rebellious and Faith was in prison, they didn't use it to kill Faith and try to get themselves a new Slayer. The only time they actually tried to kill Faith was when she was at large and a threat, and the only time they tried to kill Buffy was when she got in the way of killing Faith.

Not everyone is as morally upstanding as Buffy, though. If I were to guess, the Watchers gambled on slayers, not knowing who would be next in line, and tried to hedge their bets as much as they could by raising as many Potentials as they could. They clearly couldn't train everyone, and we know there were some Slayers that they brought into the fold and trained, such as Kendra and other Potentials, with Buffy only being brought in due to being activated. Hell, how many of them never got called, and just became members of the Watchers Council after a few decades? What if Gwen Post was a potential Slayer that just never got called?

I've often wondered about what happened to Potentials who were Watcher-trained but never got called. I doubt they'd typically become full Watchers, as there seems to be a tradition of Watcher families and Slayers/Potentials are viewed more as tools.

Always have thought Gwen Post was an underused character, though.

It's notable that in season 7, the reason so many Potentials joined their cause in the first place was to find safety from the First, Caleb, and the Bringers. And they were still dubious about following Buffy's orders for a while. After that, they viewed themselves as in a war against the forces of evil and continued to be so. We also do know that in season 8, Buffy funded everything due to leading a bunch of morally dubious slayers in some bank robbing sprees. I imagine that there were more than a few Slayers simply there for the paycheck.

Honestly, with her skills, wouldn't it just have been simpler and less risky to have Willow commit computer fraud or something? Assuming there aren't old Council funds Giles could access. Physically robbing banks is so last century.

I wouldn't be surprised if more than a couple slayers were well paid by their governments to fight evil on their terms. Or deal with problematic 'enemies of the state', etc.

Probably. Again, Kennedy went into private security and took some of the others with her, so I could see Slayers being hired as "private military contractors" (aka mercenaries).

[FaxModem1]

This is probably why the original Watchers Council was rather hands off in their treatment of rebellious slayers. If a slayer is uncooperative, wait a couple years, and a new one would emerge to help them on missions. With all of them activated at once, that clearly isn't an option, and they have to find some way to motivate the slayers to join their cause. Buffy is remarkable in that she had a real sense of civic duty from day one. Her tactics needed work, but she was very dedicated to the cause most of the time because as Giles pointed out to her, people will die if she does nothing.

Well, there's also the tradition thing. Slayers may be expendable, but at the same time, the Council probably has strong taboos against killing them (and humans in general). Especially as Watchers who have actually worked with a Slayer may often get attached. They do have their wetworks team, but its notable that even when Buffy was rebellious and Faith was in prison, they didn't use it to kill Faith and try to get themselves a new Slayer. The only time they actually tried to kill Faith was when she was at large and a threat, and the only time they tried to kill Buffy was when she got in the way of killing Faith.

Hence why I think they wait. If a slayer refuses to toe the line, she'll probably get killed against a demon or vampire that got lucky, like Spike did(I rewatched their fights recently, both times he defeated a slayer, they had him on his ass and he got very lucky, either due to explosion via Boxer Rebellion rioters, or due to a smash cut in his favor as he and Nikki Wood changed spots for no reason).

If a slayer doesn't even fight the forces of evil, there's potential for them to be like Faith, and do whatever they want to do, which probably invites the local army, militia, or police to shoot them in their "A God Am I" moment. An active slayer who doesn't even do anything at all with their power would be a very rare creature, and could probably be convinced by a lot of soft selling by charismatic Watchers.

Not everyone is as morally upstanding as Buffy, though. If I were to guess, the Watchers gambled on slayers, not knowing who would be next in line, and tried to hedge their bets as much as they could by raising as many Potentials as they could. They clearly couldn't train everyone, and we know there were some Slayers that they brought into the fold and trained, such as Kendra and other Potentials, with Buffy only being brought in due to being activated. Hell, how many of them never got called, and just became members of the Watchers Council after a few decades? What if Gwen Post was a potential Slayer that just never got called?

I've often wondered about what happened to Potentials who were Watcher-trained but never got called. I doubt they'd typically become full Watchers, as there seems to be a tradition of Watcher families and Slayers/Potentials are viewed more as tools.

Always have thought Gwen Post was an underused character, though.

Eh, they're already in the fold, have already been training for years, are already quite read up on the demons and undead. I'd imagine that quite a few of them would join the Watchers anyway, just because it would be a good use of resources if they were there in their 20s, and most slayers are called in their teen years. I imagine quite a few potentials were 'put out to pasture', and they either became civilians again, or decided to do what they were trained to do, hunt monsters, only as Watchers instead of Slayers.(We know from Roger Wyndam-Pryce cyborg that teams of Watchers do hunt monsters on their own, for instance, as one team of them tried to kill Spike in the 1960s, with him killing two of them to escape.) I can see Potentials becoming part of those teams once considered above 'Slayer calling age'

Though, that is contingent on there being a maximum age for Slayers, has anyone above the age of 18 ever been called? Anyone above the age of 30 or 40? We never saw any Granny slayers in the comics, for instance.

If there is an age limit, I imagine more than quite a few of them married into Watcher families anyway, just because they'd be spending so much time with them, and there is quite a bit of family dynasty and Watcher subculture going on there. As an example, Nikki Wood's Watcher clearly raised her son Robin after Spike killed her. If he hadn't bought it while Robin was still rather young later on, I'm reasonably confidant he would have had Robin join the Watcher Academy at some point.

It's notable that in season 7, the reason so many Potentials joined their cause in the first place was to find safety from the First, Caleb, and the Bringers. And they were still dubious about following Buffy's orders for a while. After that, they viewed themselves as in a war against the forces of evil and continued to be so. We also do know that in season 8, Buffy funded everything due to leading a bunch of morally dubious slayers in some bank robbing sprees. I imagine that there were more than a few Slayers simply there for the paycheck.

Honestly, with her skills, wouldn't it just have been simpler and less risky to have Willow commit computer fraud or something? Assuming there aren't old Council funds Giles could access. Physically robbing banks is so last century.

Couple possibilities:

Buffy isn't subtle, and is not going to be doing things like the Thomas Crown Affair, and since she has an army of superhero style teenage girls, used their ability to beat up anyone in their way to get what was needed, some real capital to establish an international headquarters and to fund the rest of the things they need to fight evil.

Oppositely, unless Roger Wyndam-Pryce cyborg was lying, there is supposed to be a renewed Watchers Council being rebuilt from the remnants. Maybe they're doing their own thing separate from the Slayers. Which if they're not as involved in finding and training slayers, kind of makes the Watchers of the 21st century Librarian demon-hunters in the style of the Men of Letters from Supernatural. This kind of fits, because if there's one thing the side of good is terrible at in the Buffy-verse, it's coming together to team up against evil(I'm looking at you Guardians).

[Majin Gojira]

Just some notes, because I love how this has gone so far.

Well, there's also the tradition thing. Slayers may be expendable, but at the same time, the Council probably has strong taboos against killing them (and humans in general). Especially as Watchers who have actually worked with a Slayer may often get attached. They do have their wetworks team, but its notable that even when Buffy was rebellious and Faith was in prison, they didn't use it to kill Faith and try to get themselves a new Slayer. The only time they actually tried to kill Faith was when she was at large and a threat, and the only time they tried to kill Buffy was when she got in the way of killing Faith.

We should also note that the classic Watcher's Council had a ritual known as the Cruciamentum. In it, on the Slayer's 18th birthday (if she lived that long) was stripped of her powers and locked in a room with a vampire.

Talk about an easy way to get rid of "problem" slayers.

And/or to prevent them from becoming legal adults.

I've often wondered about what happened to Potentials who were Watcher-trained but never got called. I doubt they'd typically become full Watchers, as there seems to be a tradition of Watcher families and Slayers/Potentials are viewed more as tools.

Always have thought Gwen Post was an underused character, though.

A sister of hers is an important character in an actually canonical tie-in novel, so her story is brought up a lot.

Though, that is contingent on there being a maximum age for Slayers, has anyone above the age of 18 ever been called? Anyone above the age of 30 or 40? We never saw any Granny slayers in the comics, for instance.

If there is an age limit, I imagine more than quite a few of them married into Watcher families anyway, just because they'd be spending so much time with them, and there is quite a bit of family dynasty and Watcher subculture going on there. As an example, Nikki Wood's Watcher clearly raised her son Robin after Spike killed her. If he hadn't bought it while Robin was still rather young later on, I'm reasonably confidant he would have had Robin join the Watcher Academy at some point.

No information on that has come forward unfortunately, but there is a minor detail that indicates that 18 isn't the cut off point.

A minor character, Tonia Marsh, had a much older look than either Faith or Buffy had in the comics at that time. How old she was is never said, given Buffy herself was (as near as I can tell) 25 at the time, it means she was likely called in her early to mid 20s at the youngest.

[The Romulan Republic]

Just some notes, because I love how this has gone so far.

Well, there's also the tradition thing. Slayers may be expendable, but at the same time, the Council probably has strong taboos against killing them (and humans in general). Especially as Watchers who have actually worked with a Slayer may often get attached. They do have their wetworks team, but its notable that even when Buffy was rebellious and Faith was in prison, they didn't use it to kill Faith and try to get themselves a new Slayer. The only time they actually tried to kill Faith was when she was at large and a threat, and the only time they tried to kill Buffy was when she got in the way of killing Faith.

We should also note that the classic Watcher's Council had a ritual known as the Cruciamentum. In it, on the Slayer's 18th birthday (if she lived that long) was stripped of her powers and locked in a room with a vampire.

Talk about an easy way to get rid of "problem" slayers.

And/or to prevent them from becoming legal adults.

The idea that the Cruciamentum is intended to kill any Slayer who reaches 18 so they'll remain easy to control is popular "fanon", but I personally disagree with it. It strikes of "Flanderization", exaggerating the Council's worst aspects to make them even more evil than in canon. It also doesn't really hold up given that the exhibit a reluctance to kill rebellious Slayers even when they would have the means to do so and it would be to their advantage. It also makes no sense to trade in an experienced Slayer for a newbie who might pop up anywhere.

I tend to take it for exactly what it was stated to be- a test. A cruel, archaic, dangerous test which is kept around out of mindless adherence to tradition. That said, its clearly a test with a double purpose- to test the Slayer's abilities, but also the Watcher's loyalty (and possibly the Slayer's loyalty as well- if you put someone through a betrayal like that and they still serve you, you know you have them thoroughly broken).

A sister of hers is an important character in an actually canonical tie-in novel, so her story is brought up a lot.

Ooh, what's the novel's title? There's a used bookstore near here that sometimes carries old Buffy novels, so I might be able to get ahold of it cheap.

No information on that has come forward unfortunately, but there is a minor detail that indicates that 18 isn't the cut off point.

A minor character, Tonia Marsh, had a much older look than either Faith or Buffy had in the comics at that time. How old she was is never said, given Buffy herself was (as near as I can tell) 25 at the time, it means she was likely called in her early to mid 20s at the youngest.

I read somewhere recently that Kennedy was supposed to be 19, as well (she'd have to be at least 18 for her relationship with Willow not to be statutory rape under California law, though that didn't stop Buffy and Angel).

[Majin Gojira]

A sister of hers is an important character in an actually canonical tie-in novel, so her story is brought up a lot.

Ooh, what's the novel's title? There's a used bookstore near here that sometimes carries old Buffy novels, so I might be able to get ahold of it cheap.

It's actually a recent publication (2019--I got it as an audiobook). It's simply called "Slayer" by Kiersten White. Pretty tightly written overall, but a little jam-packed too, with the lead character being the daughter of Buffy's first watcher, with (double-checking this now) Imogen Post as a supporting character. Not too big a role, but not one that's easily glossed over from what I remember.

But there are a LOT of relative-of-characters appearing as part of what little remains of the original Watcher Council. Like Wesley's Aunt and Cousin.

It's set in Season 9, so things are overall rather dark at the start of it all.

There's a seque "Chosen" out now, but I haven't read it yet.

[FaxModem1]

I'm very curious how much the comics go into the new Watchers Council. As the season 8 comics(which is where I stopped) doesn't go into it, as the comics treat it like Giles is the only living Watcher left(meaning they ignore the Angel episode Lineage, where even after cyborg Roger Wyndam-Pryce is killed, Wesley calls his father, so we know he survived the purge from the First). But then, we know they retconned other parts of Angel season 5(Buffy isn't just partying in Rome, for instance).

Which makes me wonder if the Slayer Organization and the new Watchers Council were ever competing over the same activated Slayer, and what that looked like.