SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

[Ziggy Stardust]

The other sad thing is the continued self-sabotage of the left (to whatever extent the US can be said to even have a "left"). I have seen plenty of far left people proudly talking about how they didn't vote for Biden for a variety of stupid reasons. Granted these people don't make up a significant proportion of the voting populace and aren't alone responsible for the closeness of the race, but I think it's pretty indicative of the general apathy of the American public. A LOT of people are still treating this election as "business as usual", based on old party line policy differences that bare little resemblance to actual reality at this point.

[Tribble]

The sad thing is, they don't even realize they are embracing facism.

They're embracing Trump for the same reason they embraced Regan.
"He's famous, and you can't only get that way by hard work. Therefore he's better then us. Therefore, by embracing him, I'm a better person."

That may have been more true in 2016, but I don’t believe so this time around. Given all Trump’s said and done over his first term IMO his support base knows exactly what he’s about, and they enthusiastically voted for him. I mean, it’s not as if Trump and his supporters have been pretending otherwise.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

The sad thing is, they don't even realize they are embracing facism.

They're embracing Trump for the same reason they embraced Regan.
"He's famous, and you can't only get that way by hard work. Therefore he's better then us. Therefore, by embracing him, I'm a better person."

I'm not in the mood to make excuses for them. Donald Trump has said the "quiet" part out loud for so long I'm pretty sure they know exactly what they're getting into.

[Solauren]

Oh, I'm not making excuses.

I'm just qualifying the remaining WW2 Generation/Boomer generation mentality in the United States. It's the same reason why people suddenly start backing sports teams near the play-offs and the like.

[Jub]

When you present most people with no good options enough times in a row they stop feeling like their voice matters at all. Keep that going for long enough and I guess this is what happens... How many people have been so alienated from politics that even now they just vote straight party line or not at all?

[Napoleon the Clown]

The other sad thing is the continued self-sabotage of the left (to whatever extent the US can be said to even have a "left"). I have seen plenty of far left people proudly talking about how they didn't vote for Biden for a variety of stupid reasons. Granted these people don't make up a significant proportion of the voting populace and aren't alone responsible for the closeness of the race, but I think it's pretty indicative of the general apathy of the American public. A LOT of people are still treating this election as "business as usual", based on old party line policy differences that bare little resemblance to actual reality at this point.

Thing is, a lot of people feel like even if Biden wins things will not change. When everything's on fucking fire and you tell people "You can choose between an arsonist and a guy that won't try to put out the fires" don't go all surprised pikachu when they pick the snowball in a bonfire (3rd party) candidate or just don't vote for POTUS. When you've spent decades participating in policies that have adversely affected people, don't get indignant when they decide that your candidate isn't going to help them. The Democratic party has been fucking up for a while now. The rallying cry for many of the Democratic nominees has been "vote for our candidate or the other guy will burn down the nation!" They've become the boy who cried wolf. And all the while, when they were in power, they were negligent little shepherds that let hemlock overtake the sheep pasture while ticks flourished and ewes were left unassisted in childbirth. The Republicans are maliciously evil, the Democrats have been negligent at best.

I voted for Biden because, out of the realistic choices I had, he most closely aligned with my views. I wasn't excited to vote for him. I didn't vote for him expecting him to put out the fucking fires. To me, not starting new fires is at least worth it. But I get why people who have been repeatedly burned by the Democratic party leadership have decided that maybe we need to let shit get horrifically awful and dire before people wake the fuck up. I doubt that plan of action can work, but business as usual sure as shit hasn't worked out for millions of America's residents.

[Zaune]

I voted for Biden because, out of the realistic choices I had, he most closely aligned with my views. I wasn't excited to vote for him. I didn't vote for him expecting him to put out the fucking fires. To me, not starting new fires is at least worth it. But I get why people who have been repeatedly burned by the Democratic party leadership have decided that maybe we need to let shit get horrifically awful and dire before people wake the fuck up. I doubt that plan of action can work, but business as usual sure as shit hasn't worked out for millions of America's residents.

The good news is, Biden has shown at least some willingness to bend leftwards to keep the people who backed Sanders over himself rather than making Obama's mistake of trying to appease the moderate Republicans. And I can't imagine the overt acts of sedition (because what the hell else do you call conspiracy to interfere in the electoral process?) and not-so-veiled threats to arrest him on -hah!- trumped-up charges in the event of a second term are making Biden more inclined to try for bipartisan consensus.

[Ziggy Stardust]

The other sad thing is the continued self-sabotage of the left (to whatever extent the US can be said to even have a "left"). I have seen plenty of far left people proudly talking about how they didn't vote for Biden for a variety of stupid reasons. Granted these people don't make up a significant proportion of the voting populace and aren't alone responsible for the closeness of the race, but I think it's pretty indicative of the general apathy of the American public. A LOT of people are still treating this election as "business as usual", based on old party line policy differences that bare little resemblance to actual reality at this point.

Thing is, a lot of people feel like even if Biden wins things will not change. When everything's on fucking fire and you tell people "You can choose between an arsonist and a guy that won't try to put out the fires" don't go all surprised pikachu when they pick the snowball in a bonfire (3rd party) candidate or just don't vote for POTUS. When you've spent decades participating in policies that have adversely affected people, don't get indignant when they decide that your candidate isn't going to help them. The Democratic party has been fucking up for a while now. The rallying cry for many of the Democratic nominees has been "vote for our candidate or the other guy will burn down the nation!" They've become the boy who cried wolf. And all the while, when they were in power, they were negligent little shepherds that let hemlock overtake the sheep pasture while ticks flourished and ewes were left unassisted in childbirth. The Republicans are maliciously evil, the Democrats have been negligent at best.

I voted for Biden because, out of the realistic choices I had, he most closely aligned with my views. I wasn't excited to vote for him. I didn't vote for him expecting him to put out the fucking fires. To me, not starting new fires is at least worth it. But I get why people who have been repeatedly burned by the Democratic party leadership have decided that maybe we need to let shit get horrifically awful and dire before people wake the fuck up. I doubt that plan of action can work, but business as usual sure as shit hasn't worked out for millions of America's residents.

This isn't even really what I'm talking about, though? I think you completely misunderstood my point (because I agree with everything you said). I am not criticizing leftists being disillusioned with the centrist policies of the Democrats. I am criticizing the centrist Democrats who are too blind to realize the world has changed around them. Thus my last sentence about people treating this as "business as usual" and so on. I'm talking about the Democrats who want to distance the party from ANTIFA/BLM in the name of some fictional compromise that can never be realized because it is based on old party line policy differences that bare little resemblance to the current reality. I realize my last post was unclear, but I am blaming the divisions in the Democratic party on the centrists and the party itself, not the leftists like myself.

[Napoleon the Clown]

Ah. I've been seeing so many people throwing tantrums about 3rd party/non-voters that I'm kind of on a hair-trigger for it anymore.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Apparently Michigan went to Biden.

[His Divine Shadow]

Just woke up and I see on google that Biden has 264 electoral votes, Trump 214. Nevada is leaning Biden and they have the remaining 6 votes. Almost all states have voted now (except mail votes I guess), The other states are looking to go for trump but they won't allow him to reach 270. So it looks like Nevada will decide the election and it is close.

[Soontir C'boath]

You can read the whole article in the link which pretty much torches Florida Democrat leadership, but I thought this was the poignant part. When the $15/hour wage increase garnered more votes than Biden, you have a fucking problem in the party.

Eskamani was vocal about how she believed the state party’s message on economic issues doesn’t work.

“The Democratic Party continues to have no values,” Eskamani said. “And the fact that the $15 minimum wage amendment passed while so many of our candidates, including the self-anointed ‘top Democrats,’ don’t even stand in strong solidarity [of the initiative] … because they’re influenced by corporate donors, is another example of just why we keep losing.”

Eskamani cited her own winning campaign’s ground game, which included 40,000 phone calls and knocking on 33,000 doors.

“When was the last time these consultants, who give all this advice to Democrats, knocked on doors or actually talked to working people, let alone even showed up in a working people neighborhood?” Eskamani asked. “I think there is a deep disconnection between what consultants are telling Democrats to do, and what we see on the ground every single day, whether it’s navigating the unemployment system, a family living in hotels and motels, or even just people barely making ends meet. Their issues are deeply personal.”

[AniThyng]

Just woke up and I see on google that Biden has 264 electoral votes, Trump 214. Nevada is leaning Biden and they have the remaining 6 votes. Almost all states have voted now (except mail votes I guess), The other states are looking to go for trump but they won't allow him to reach 270. So it looks like Nevada will decide the election and it is close.

I think I've seen some saying that arizona was called too early, if it goes to Trump then that's that...

[His Divine Shadow]

Assuming the postal votes don't flip it again, or that other states now marginally red won't flip later because of the same. I'm really not sure how to interpret these results because of this.

[Nicholas]

You can read the whole article in the link which pretty much torches Florida Democrat leadership, but I thought this was the poignant part. When the $15/hour wage increase garnered more votes than Biden, you have a fucking problem in the party.

It is worth pointing out here that this issue seems to run both ways. Republicans got hammered in California, Biden beat Trump 2-1. Yet on multiple ballot initiatives conservatives won or look likely to win. Uber and Lyft overturned the efforts to classify their workers as employees. The effort to modify the California constitution to permit affirmative action was defeated. A tax increase on commercial property is currently behind. A measure to prohibit cash bail was defeated. Voting rights for some 17 year-olds is currently behind. Rent control was defeated. New regulations on Kidney-Dialysis centers, part of a campaign to unionize them was defeated.

I suspect the issue here is people like certain policies of the other party and the ballot initiative system lets them have it both ways, vote for the party they mostly support but restrain them via ballot initiatives.

Nicholas

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

Just woke up and I see on google that Biden has 264 electoral votes, Trump 214. Nevada is leaning Biden and they have the remaining 6 votes. Almost all states have voted now (except mail votes I guess), The other states are looking to go for trump but they won't allow him to reach 270. So it looks like Nevada will decide the election and it is close.

I think I've seen some saying that arizona was called too early, if it goes to Trump then that's that...

Arizona was called much too early. According to FiveThirtyEight; of the 418K ballots left to count, most of them come from Maricopa county. The ones that have been counted so far have been breaking 59-41 for Trump, which is what he needs to take the state. Only bright side is that about 30K of the outstanding ballots are from Pima County, which is is expected to break in Biden's favor; so Biden may hold on to AZ.

Biden needs to get both Arizona and Nevada to get him to 270. However, Pennsylvania has a huge number of mail-in ballots to count, and theirs are expected to break heavily Democratic, so Biden has a fair chance of flipping PA. If he does, he won't need AZ or NV.

Biden also has a chance to take Georgia. He's down by ~18K votes, and there are ~50K mail-in ballots left to count. If he pulls out a win in GA (and loses PA,) then he needs to hold either AZ or NV to win the Electoral College.

A Biden GA win, coupled with losses in AZ, NV, and PA will have him and Trump tied at 269 electoral votes apiece; sending the election to the House of Representatives. However the House would vote for President by delegation. So while the Democrats have more bodies in the House than Republicans, the Republicans control 26 state delegations to the Democrats' 23.

[Soontir C'boath]

You can read the whole article in the link which pretty much torches Florida Democrat leadership, but I thought this was the poignant part. When the $15/hour wage increase garnered more votes than Biden, you have a fucking problem in the party.

It is worth pointing out here that this issue seems to run both ways. Republicans got hammered in California, Biden beat Trump 2-1. Yet on multiple ballot initiatives conservatives won or look likely to win. Uber and Lyft overturned the efforts to classify their workers as employees. The effort to modify the California constitution to permit affirmative action was defeated. A tax increase on commercial property is currently behind. A measure to prohibit cash bail was defeated. Voting rights for some 17 year-olds is currently behind. Rent control was defeated. New regulations on Kidney-Dialysis centers, part of a campaign to unionize them was defeated.

I suspect the issue here is people like certain policies of the other party and the ballot initiative system lets them have it both ways, vote for the party they mostly support but restrain them via ballot initiatives.

Nicholas

California's many ballot initiatives look to be a mix bag and in the end much of it can come down to who spent more money or are simply not ready to accept things like bail reform and voting rights which frankly are more progressive ideals than run of the mill liberals tend to have. Heck, I certainly don't recall people discussing allowing people to vote in the same year they turn 18 to be much of a thing until perhaps a few years ago.

It certainly cannot be discounted the $200 million campaign by Uber and Lyft who had even forced their drivers to tell their riders to support Prop 22, the money bail bonds industry in California put to squash bail reform, etc.

Heck, bail reform had a bit of backlash here in New York recently and frankly that's more due to people not understanding how bail works to begin with. There are still too many people out there even among Democrats who think the defendant should remain in jail until their court date, rather than free to continue living their lives and building their defense which is pretty important for people considered innocent until proven guilty.

The Fight for $15 campaign, however, has been ongoing for years now and is a tangible benefit for many economically. Which even then from what I understand, Florida's version will take awhile to ramp up to $15.

[Borgholio]

Just listened to Trump's statement on the current status of the election. I think it gave me cancer.

[Iroscato]

Just listened to Trump's statement on the current status of the election. I think it gave me cancer.

For me it was sweet, sweet nectar. Fuck it, even if he somehow wins the sheer level of anemic wheedling will sustain me for quite a long time. What a singularly pathetic man.

[Solauren]

I think it's ironic (or perhaps true, of them) that the Trump campaign is screaming 'voting fraud in Pennsylvania', when Trump is in fact leading in the vote count.

Trying to admit something?

[Crossroads Inc.]

[Trump's votes ahead in a state] STOP THE COUNT STOP THE COUNT!!!
[Trump is behind in a state] COUNT ALL THE VOTES! COUNT ALL THE VOTES!!!

[AniThyng]

It's "hilarious" how you guys are basically admitting trust in the electoral system is basically on the level of a middling third world democracy.

[His Divine Shadow]

In reality though the US election system is pretty safe from hacking on large scale because it's so decentralized and hodge podge.

What it's mainly vulnerable to is voter suppression and gerrymandering, but any hacking is basically limited by virtue of states having their own systems. And sure some states have some real crappy systems.

[His Divine Shadow]

Man georgia is a real nail biter now. I am told it's thanks to the work of Stacy Abrams.

[AniThyng]

In reality though the US election system is pretty safe from hacking on large scale because it's so decentralized and hodge podge.

What it's mainly vulnerable to is voter suppression and gerrymandering, but any hacking is basically limited by virtue of states having their own systems. And sure some states have some real crappy systems.

Well yeah, but what I mean is that for the sitting president, even if said president is trump, to come out and basically say the election is being stolen under him by hilariously transparent means like ballot box stuffing or mysterious new boxes reflects a perception of the integrity of the election that one is more used to seeing in the kind of state where the west sends election observers and lectures about "free and fair" process.

Not saying that is anywhere close to the reality of the integrity of the count, but clearly enough people see it as "credible"