Wonder Woman 1984 Discussion Thread (spoilers)

[Nari]

(Apologies if this has already been started and my search skills are lacking).


I’m really challenged to understand the current rating of this on RottenTomatoes (67/76%, with over 100 reviews).

To me and my wife this was beyond underwhelming; it was borderline incredibly stupid. The first Twilight film level CGI and the incredibly odd looking leaps (Gadot is literally learning backwards at some points) just added insult to injury as even the (very few) action scenes weren’t even enjoyable to sit back and just watch.

The premise had potential to me, but the execution was just lacking everywhere.

The 80s appears to have been chosen as the decade of greed (as opposed to say the first 8 years of this century!) with little else to anchor it to that period.

Chris Pine and Gal Gadot unquestionably have great onscreen chemistry, but they way they brought him back (and that she just ‘saw’ Pine) just didn’t work for me.

I’m someone who probably has a lower threshold for losing my SoD than most people. So when a WW2 trained pilot successfully flies an F-111 from the Smithsonian collection to Egypt and back for <reasons> is one of the less egregious (or at least less confusing) things that I’ve seen to that point, I was really beginning to wonder if I was just in a bad mood or something, but it didn’t get better.

Don’t even ask me about what the point of that side trip to Egypt was. Like many of the scenes and location transitions it didn’t really appear necessary. We did get the invisible jet (which promptly became obsolete as she learned how to fly later), but the convoy action scene could have happened anywhere and this mostly demonstrated that the writer and director weren’t real clear on what ‘losing her powers’ means; she still clearly possessed superhuman abilities, just not the ability to throw vehicles around at will?

Which is all a big disappointment given how much we enjoyed the first one (even if it was also a bit long). In this one I thought the final suit of armor was an inspired design and used well, but I’m stretching to find other positive things.

Here’s hoping that others enjoyed it more than me!

[Majin Gojira]

I think this review points out the problems with the film rather well. I haven't seen it yet, and this review has got me in the "Yikes!" side of how things have been done.

Which sucks, I like the character, I liked the last film (flawed though it was). But this just sounds... repugnant.

[Nari]

Yep, that reviewer clearly watched the same film that I did. Not sure what other people are watching.

So many questionable decisions there.

[Tsyroc]

I watched a pretty good video on what they could have done differently that would have greatly improved the movie. Most of which were writing tweaks.

I can't help but think they were in a rush to get this out and maybe they were in a bubble about how "great" the first movie was (even though only about two thirds of the first movie was close to great with the other third being Meh at best) so they didn't have people around pointing out issues in this one.

Wonder Woman sleeping with a possessed man. Yep, that's awesome.
The WWI pilot flying a modern military aircraft. Yep, we need some added explanation there. Maybe his host body had recent military aircraft experience?
Kristen Wiig. Yeah, that casting could have been better, and the Cheetah makeup didn't look great either.
There was some bad CGI at times in the first movie but c'mon. At this point Marvel has had how many CGI characters, most of which have looked great and WB can't get close to that on a major character?

[wautd]

Shame it's getting mediocre reviews, although I'm still looking forward to see it. After all, it gave us one of the best movie trailers of the past year

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9S8lT5yGAQ

[Ziggy Stardust]

The only thing about this movie that was not execrable was Pedro Pascal. He was clearly the only person who read the script and realized what kind of movie this was and hammed it up accordingly (think Joel Schumacher Batman era campiness). Everyone else took it waaaay too seriously. Especially the whole "Wonder Woman rapes a dude" plotline, which is treated with sincerity as the most romantic thing ever. Also, how do you cast Kristin Wiig as Cheetah and not give her some time to do some weird cat stuff like Michelle Pfeiffer as Catwoman? They barely gave her any screen time or anything to do with the character.

Finally, how the heck do you spend so much time marketing a movie explicitly as "1984" and not have a single 80s song or even remotely 80s sounding score? Seriously, except for some of the set dressing in the mall fight scene, there wasn't a single thing in this movie that was relevant to it taking place in 1984.

[Majin Gojira]

I recently saw a video regarding what may have happened, and it may be that the 'end' of the DCEU project/Snyderverse caused a lot of reworking/rewriting, later on, so whatever it was going to be was changed time and again, and what was left was a mess.

Regardless, I am curious to hear what happened with all this behind the scenes.

[GuppyShark]

Yes. I hope there's a thorough documentary about all this in a decade or two, the DCEU has been a train wreck of studio meddling, rewrites, and other signs of a well crafted franchise. A lot of it is going to be office politics and we'll never know what really happened.

[Darth Lücifer]

Finally, how the heck do you spend so much time marketing a movie explicitly as "1984" and not have a single 80s song or even remotely 80s sounding score? Seriously, except for some of the set dressing in the mall fight scene, there wasn't a single thing in this movie that was relevant to it taking place in 1984.

While they had a couple of obligatory nods to the 80's (women in spandex, the dressing scene, an old style arcade) the movie didn't feel immersed in 1984 the way Captain Marvel made the viewer believe it was taking place in the early 90's. Part of this is because you really don't hear much music from that era in the background (though I did catch Suicide Blonde by INXS when Barbara showed up at that party looking sexy AF). Contrast that to Captain Marvel, which had a whole soundtrack of contemporary hits jamming during all the right scenes.

[Darth Lücifer]

I was wrong about the song it's Frankie Goes To Hollywood - Welcome To The Pleasuredome. Don't know how the hell I heard a 90's tune in an 80's movie.

[LadyTevar]

I'd been avoiding this thread, because I was waiting to see the movie with friends who had access to HBO.

I like the movie.
Does it have problems? Yes. I really HATED the lack of 80s songs, because I'm a Child of the 80s, and Dammit 1984 had some GREAT SONGS that could have been thrown in there!

The plot? No... the plot was 1980s over-the-top, and I enjoyed it. It was an update for "Greed Is Good", as well as "Monkey Paw".

I see bitching about "Why'd they go to Egypt?" Gee, guess y'all missed the whole bit about Max Lord being jealous and hating the "New Lord of Crude" who lived over there. As true to his character, he was using his Wish Power to FUCK OVER PEOPLE HE DIDN'T LIKE. Or did folks miss that part when he sicc'd the IRS on his former Partner, after tricking the guy into Wishing they'd found oil.
Also, note Max Lord's redemption was not WW, but his son. "What profits a man to gain the world, but lose his only son?" That was the PLOT -- where is the line between what you desire, and what you're willing to lose to win and keep it.

And those bitching about WW losing her powers. Yes, she was still hella strong in the Convoy battle, but she was still LOSING. She was getting injured by gunfire, something she wasn't before. She was getting TIRED. And, most tellingly, because she was so happy with Steve being back, she Lost Her Grip On The Truth.
Or did people miss that bit, where the Lasso of Truth slipped out of her hand? Hell, I'm usually the oblivious one, but I caught that implication.

Now, yes, there's some questionable shit going on with Steve's possession of another man and Consent. I don't know who the man was, or why he got chosen to be the host. I do know that WW (and we audience) saw him as Steve to make it easier to know what was going on. So, Nonconsensual Sex? No. STEVE was in charge of the body, and we know DAMN WELL Steve wanted it. The only nonconsensual bit was the possession itself, which we don't have enough information on to know what was happening with the Host's mind/soul. We are shown he's back to himself, and seems to have a new outlook on life, but did not consciously recognize Diana. Maybe he was in the "Nice Place" Steve couldn't describe during that time. I'm sure whatever he experienced was written off just like all the others who Got Their Wish. Life moved on.

But, let's talk about Asteria, the Greatest Amazon Warrior, who was made armor to allow her to stay behind as a distraction while the other Amazons escaped. Great job, everyone, keeping THAT bit a secret! I'd seen her eyes, and wondered why they looked familiar. That mid-credit scene, with the long black hair and the flowing blue 'cape', and saving the kid? And then she turned around.

BTW: dozens of men with metal swords couldn't get through the armor, but Cheetah in her "Apex Predator" form was denting and ripping feathers away. Also -- while we see Barbara back in her human form, we never hear her revoke her wish. She could still have her first wish, and only revoked the 'Apex Predator' on that Max Lord granted her. I wonder if she even realized how animalistic she'd become there, or if she cared. She was already losing her humanity.

[Batman]

*cough* 'Welcome to the Pleasuredome' at the beginning of the gala sequence?

[LadyTevar]

*cough* 'Welcome to the Pleasuredome' at the beginning of the gala sequence?

ONE out of TWO SONGS in the entire movie. The other was "Suicide Blond" by INXS.

[Batman]

The closing credits don't even mention that. But very well. Which songs would you have used where?

[LadyTevar]

The mall scene should have had something by Tiffany playing.
Lady roller-skating down the beach could have had BonJovi or Springsteen playing from her Walkman.
And WTF were the BreakDancers dancing to? It should have been Run-DMC, LL Cool J, or The Fat Boys.

While INXS was ok for Barbara walking in, they could have had Madonna as well.

[Khaat]

My wife and I fired it up right after Christmas. My wife couldn't sit through it. And it wasn't the superhero bit she couldn't do, it was the slooooooow story. She left the room before they got out of DC. Me, I sat through the rest. It touched on a bunch of "huh?" for me. Too much to enjoy the plot.

I liked Diana's "learning to fly" sequence. A) it was learning to fly, B) it was growth after so long with Diana's past being a stone around her neck.

The rest was under-cooked. The final lesson? Something she learned when she was a child. The BBEG? People. Well, men, Unnamed Evil One notwithstanding. More re-writes could have ironed out the glaring, insulting bits: "that was quick! (didn't you call me from Egypt ten minutes ago?)" *near-fourth-wall-break-to-wink.*

[Batman]

Tiffany didn't pop up until '87

[Galvatron]

Love is a Battlefield by Pat Benatar would have been perfect for this movie.

Something from Van Halen's 1984 would have been appropriate too. Panama or Jump, for instance.

A lot of the other recommendations I've seen are for songs that didn't debut until the late 80s. Suicide Blonde by INXS wasn't even released until 1990!

Since 1984 is actually in the title of the movie, I expected more songs from 1984 or earlier. I'm just anal like that.

[Gandalf]

Now, yes, there's some questionable shit going on with Steve's possession of another man and Consent. I don't know who the man was, or why he got chosen to be the host. I do know that WW (and we audience) saw him as Steve to make it easier to know what was going on. So, Nonconsensual Sex? No. STEVE was in charge of the body, and we know DAMN WELL Steve wanted it. The only nonconsensual bit was the possession itself, which we don't have enough information on to know what was happening with the Host's mind/soul. We are shown he's back to himself, and seems to have a new outlook on life, but did not consciously recognize Diana. Maybe he was in the "Nice Place" Steve couldn't describe during that time. I'm sure whatever he experienced was written off just like all the others who Got Their Wish. Life moved on.

Just because an external actor make someone lose control of their body doesn't mean that suddenly consent isn't a thing. It wasn't Steve Trevor's body, therefore he can't grant consent like that.

Some writer didn't think it through.

Since 1984 is actually in the title of the movie, I expected more songs from 1984 or earlier. I'm just anal like that.

Indeed. To put such a specific year in the title without paying it out is just weird. A weird non-specific eighties like in The Goldbergs would have made more sense.

One can only assume that they didn't want to pay for the soundtrack and other licensed stuff that would have dated it.

[Galvatron]

This would have been a good theme song for Cheetah:



And it was released in 1982.

[Gandalf]

Any travel sequence could have used Holiday Road, from 1983.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Yes, the whole film was underwhelming, falling far short of the first film and turning into yet another DC film that was 'meh' at best. Some of the elements were either just unbelievable or completely fucking stupid.
One minute in totally nails the issue of consent in the space of three seconds, as well as summing up some but by no means all of the film's flaws.