Cost and Economics of the TIE Fighter and Hyperdrives

[chimericoncogene]

Well I wouldn't directly compare the hyperdrive rings into the size of a hyperdrive, I mean we saw a hyperdrive unit in Episode one and it wasn't that big compared to the ship it was installed in, Amidala's ship was around 90 m long IIRC and the hyperdrive looked like it was at most 2 meters wide, 2 meters tall and half a meter deep compared to Obi-wan who was working on the unit.

Yeah, the rings are probably a bit oversized (we see sublight on them too). OTOH, the hyperdrive seen in TPM might be a subcomponent rather than the whole system.

I'd guess that they don't scale down well. A V-wing is three meters wide and eight meters long, and an Eta is five meters long, with barely any room outside a person-sized cockpit. Also, the TIE x1's hyperdrive is still pretty big, compared to a TIE cockpit.

[Rogue 9]

Shields. Shields seem to vary in strength from old-EU 'it's a hitpoint pool' to what we see in the films, where it's not uncommon to see a 'shielded' craft blapped in seconds.

I mean, they're called deflectors, and they seem to do what it says on the tin. For a particularly stark example, check Poe Dameron's trench run on Starkiller Base. He's got a TIE on his tail all the way in and it's shots are just all over the damn place and often deviate from the axis the fighter was on when it fired. If that's the mechanism, they probably wouldn't diffuse a direct hit; their function would be to prevent direct hits from happening to begin with.

[FaxModem1]

Was there ever actually such a thing? In any case, the performance tradeoff can't have been that big* for a hyperdrive, as it presumably gave more power for its greater weight.

* For the F4F, it took 90 mph off the speed, which made a floatplane version all but useless. There is a reason that only one was converted.

Have you seen the layout of Jedi interceptors (and their hyperdrive rings)? Hyperdrives are reasonably large affairs, and can easily double the mass of your space fighter - with attendant costs for bigger engines, bigger s-foils, etc, etc.

Compare a V-wing or a Delta with an ARC-170. The ARC-170 has more crew, more sensors, more everything because there's no point building a lightweight fighter that's 70% hyperdrive by mass.

The A-wing is magnificent for stuffing a hyperdrive into a spaceframe that small.

Well I wouldn't directly compare the hyperdrive rings into the size of a hyperdrive, I mean we saw a hyperdrive unit in Episode one and it wasn't that big compared to the ship it was installed in, Amidala's ship was around 90 m long IIRC and the hyperdrive looked like it was at most 2 meters wide, 2 meters tall and half a meter deep compared to Obi-wan who was working on the unit.

We also know that something the size of the fighters of the era,, Darth Maul's one man ship also has a hyperdrive, as it's able to travel from Coruscant to Tattooine over the course of a day without a giant ring.

[chimericoncogene]

We also know that something the size of the fighters of the era,, Darth Maul's one man ship also has a hyperdrive, as it's able to travel from Coruscant to Tattooine over the course of a day without a giant ring.

You mean this two-deck Sith Infiltrator?

[FaxModem1]

We also know that something the size of the fighters of the era,, Darth Maul's one man ship also has a hyperdrive, as it's able to travel from Coruscant to Tattooine over the course of a day without a giant ring.

*snip photo*

You mean this two-deck Sith Infiltrator?

Well what do you know, that thing is rather big. Point withdrawn.

[chimericoncogene]

We must recall that a TIE fighter is merely the pointy end of a far greater weapons system, which includes ship/shore-based jammers, ECCM, sensors, and command-and-control systems.

(recall the tale of the air defense system with a fighter, the big control radar, and the C&C system - spending money on either one does not get you a better system because of the limitations of the other two; you need to split the money into three parts and upgrade all bits of the system equally)

TIEs, like V-wings, are lightweight capship defenders (the opposite idea to an ARC-170 recon bird designed for independent patrols). Their design philosophy offloads all the complex big-ticket items - radar, ground control/navigational interfaces, jammers, ECCM, hyperdrive - onto nearby ships, bases, and battlestations. Supported by Star Destroyers and banks of GCI capcoms, TIEs are fearsome fighters. Alone, in empty space, they're dead meat.

Network-centric warfare IN SPAAACEEE! Systems vs. platforms.

We see this a lot - backed up by the fearsome ECM and superb GCI of the Death Star, Black Squadron rips apart Red and Gold Squadrons over Yavin. Chasing the Falcon beyond capship support, TIEs are relatively easy prey to quad guns.

The Imperial bureaucrat's answer to improving the TIE fighter would thus, predictably, be to build bigger and better Star Destroyers with more powerful support jammers and bigger GCI suites. Doctrine, politics, and national character fitting like a tee.

[Lord Revan]

We must recall that a TIE fighter is merely the pointy end of a far greater weapons system, which includes ship/shore-based jammers, ECCM, sensors, and command-and-control systems.

(recall the tale of the air defense system with a fighter, the big control radar, and the C&C system - spending money on either one does not get you a better system because of the limitations of the other two; you need to split the money into three parts and upgrade all bits of the system equally)

TIEs, like V-wings, are lightweight capship defenders (the opposite idea to an ARC-170 recon bird designed for independent patrols). Their design philosophy offloads all the complex big-ticket items - radar, ground control/navigational interfaces, jammers, ECCM, hyperdrive - onto nearby ships, bases, and battlestations. Supported by Star Destroyers and banks of GCI capcoms, TIEs are fearsome fighters. Alone, in empty space, they're dead meat.

Network-centric warfare IN SPAAACEEE! Systems vs. platforms.

We see this a lot - backed up by the fearsome ECM and superb GCI of the Death Star, Black Squadron rips apart Red and Gold Squadrons over Yavin. Chasing the Falcon beyond capship support, TIEs are relatively easy prey to quad guns.

The Imperial bureaucrat's answer to improving the TIE fighter would thus, predictably, be to build bigger and better Star Destroyers with more powerful support jammers and bigger GCI suites. Doctrine, politics, and national character fitting like a tee.

This thread is almost a year old by now, it would have probably been better for your to create a now one and link to this thread then necro this one. especially since your post reads like you posted it drunk or high on something.

[Lord Revan]

We must recall that a TIE fighter is merely the pointy end of a far greater weapons system, which includes ship/shore-based jammers, ECCM, sensors, and command-and-control systems.

(recall the tale of the air defense system with a fighter, the big control radar, and the C&C system - spending money on either one does not get you a better system because of the limitations of the other two; you need to split the money into three parts and upgrade all bits of the system equally)

TIEs, like V-wings, are lightweight capship defenders (the opposite idea to an ARC-170 recon bird designed for independent patrols). Their design philosophy offloads all the complex big-ticket items - radar, ground control/navigational interfaces, jammers, ECCM, hyperdrive - onto nearby ships, bases, and battlestations. Supported by Star Destroyers and banks of GCI capcoms, TIEs are fearsome fighters. Alone, in empty space, they're dead meat.

Network-centric warfare IN SPAAACEEE! Systems vs. platforms.

We see this a lot - backed up by the fearsome ECM and superb GCI of the Death Star, Black Squadron rips apart Red and Gold Squadrons over Yavin. Chasing the Falcon beyond capship support, TIEs are relatively easy prey to quad guns.

The Imperial bureaucrat's answer to improving the TIE fighter would thus, predictably, be to build bigger and better Star Destroyers with more powerful support jammers and bigger GCI suites. Doctrine, politics, and national character fitting like a tee.

This thread is almost a year old by now, it would have probably been better for your to create a now one and link to this thread then necro this one. especially since your post reads like you posted it drunk or high on something.

Ghetto EDIT:Now that I've been able to parse your post better, I see your point, I must have been too tired myself to read it properly before and for that I apologize.

Now you got point there is also the matter of your typical target for a TIE fighter. During the Clone Wars the main enemy for the Republic Navy was more or less on par with it.

While for the Empire most would have to deal with enemies that are far weaker (Scariff was after all said have been first major victory the rebel fleet had against the empire and even that was costly due how badly outmatched the rebels were) so empire could have capital ship support with far greater consistency compared to the Republic as the Empire had little to no enemies capable of forcing those cap ships to flee.

That's probably why we see Republic using ACR-170s, Y-Wings and Z-95s in most engagements so if the capships have to flee the fighters aren't left alone to be slaughtered. While the Empire can rely on the much cheaper TIEs (with savings probably going into pockets of the senators as it was implied that imperial senate was even more corrupt then the late Old Republic senate) as the chances of there being ships capable of chasing away the imperial cap ships and thus leaving the TIE to fend for themselves is much lower.