Falcon & Winter Soldier -- SPOILER THREAD

[LadyTevar]

No, I've yet to see it, just putting the thread here for those who have.

[Agent Fisher]

So, Sam is still running independent contractor work for the US Military. We learn that the Avengers did not draw a salary. Bucky's making amends. And we see our first look at US Agent. Not a bad costume, over all, but we'll see.

[Coop D'etat]

Sam getting done dirty by the Pentagon who want someone whiter and more controllable as a new Captain America is a good story beat to start on.

[LadyTevar]

Sam getting done dirty by the Pentagon who want someone whiter and more controllable as a new Captain America is a good story beat to start on.

That's one interpretation, yeah. He did step away of his own accord, but to steal the Shield, after it'd been donated? Daaaamn that's cold.

I do like that they're showing the problems those who were Blipped are having. 5yrs gone would wipe out your credit history, wouldn't it. And who says you can even get your old job back? And when you weren't getting paid much to begin with? Will they end up with SHIELD, SWORD, or another Alphabet agency?

Poor Bucky. PTSD plus a list of 'amends' he has decided to make. His very own "12-step program". At least he brought down a Senator.
I don't think he's getting a second date, tho. And like Cap, he probably can't get drunk off beer. Still ... how do you tell a man "I killed your kid because he witnessed an assassination."?

Good setup. Very nice start with the action scene, great way to introduce the plot via the 'kid'.
Very interesting how the FlagSmashers used a FlashMob to confuse the police after a robbery. And left with lots of questions, like is the FlagSmashers leader another of Stucker's Hydra experiments?

[Batman]

Who says the shield was stolen? 'Whatever' agency Sam gave it to might have relinquished it freely to make a new Captain America happen.

Yeah, you not having existed the past 5 years is going to raise some problems.

I know it was Switzerland but sorry those german accents sounded neither swiss nor german but at least they got the translations right this time.

And meanies. I sat all the way through the end credits for nothing.

[Majin Gojira]

That line Sam has about "Give and Take" is ... Really, really iffy at best. Like "Was this written by a white guy?!" levels of what the hell.

[Broomstick]

Who says the shield was stolen? 'Whatever' agency Sam gave it to might have relinquished it freely to make a new Captain America happen.

He pretty clearly donated it to the Smithsonian, which is not, to my knowledge, a "whatever agency".

And meanies. I sat all the way through the end credits for nothing.

Fast forward can be your friend.

[GuppyShark]

Still ... how do you tell a man "I killed your kid because he witnessed an assassination."?

Thankyou for that. I hadn't connected those dots. I knew he probably killed the guy's kid, but didn't connect it to the poor guy fumbling with his hotel key.

[Batman]

Who says the shield was stolen? 'Whatever' agency Sam gave it to might have relinquished it freely to make a new Captain America happen.

He pretty clearly donated it to the Smithsonian, which is not, to my knowledge, a "whatever agency".

It may have been clear to you but not being a real world american I'm not familiar with what the Smithsonian looks like. And they absolutely 'are' a 'whatever' agency as that includes any and all organized bodies, not just the alphabet ones or the ones with the actual word 'Agency' in their name.

And meanies. I sat all the way through the end credits for nothing.

Fast forward can be your friend.

Not really an option

Thankyou for that. I hadn't connected those dots. I knew he probably killed the guy's kid, but didn't connect it to the poor guy fumbling with his hotel key

Um-the kid in the picture was pretty obviously the same person Bucky killed ? Same face and all?

[Broomstick]

Who says the shield was stolen? 'Whatever' agency Sam gave it to might have relinquished it freely to make a new Captain America happen.

He pretty clearly donated it to the Smithsonian, which is not, to my knowledge, a "whatever agency".

It may have been clear to you but not being a real world american I'm not familiar with what the Smithsonian looks like.

Pretty sure none of the actual Smithsonian buildings look like what they showed, either, but the banners and displays behind Sam saying "Smithsonian" were sort of a tip off.

The Smithsonian is a group of museums. Stuff donated to it for the most part don't leave the museums again.

And they absolutely 'are' a 'whatever' agency as that includes any and all organized bodies, not just the alphabet ones or the ones with the actual word 'Agency' in their name.

They're a bunch of museums, not spy/clandestine/law enforcement/etc agency.

[Batman]

He pretty clearly donated it to the Smithsonian, which is not, to my knowledge, a "whatever agency".

It may have been clear to you but not being a real world american I'm not familiar with what the Smithsonian looks like.

Pretty sure none of the actual Smithsonian buildings look like what they showed, either, but the banners and displays behind Sam saying "Smithsonian" were sort of a tip off.

It absolutely would have been had I noticed that.

The Smithsonian is a group of museums. Stuff donated to it for the most part don't leave the museums again.

'For the most part'. Who says they didn't make an exception this time? Is their anything saying they 'can't' release exhibits if they deem it is for a worthy cause?

And they absolutely 'are' a 'whatever' agency as that includes any and all organized bodies, not just the alphabet ones or the ones with the actual word 'Agency' in their name.

They're a bunch of museums, not spy/clandestine/law enforcement/etc agency.

'agency' (noun)
'A business or organization providing a particular service on behalf of another business, person, or group'
Pretty sure the Smithsonian falls under that

[GuppyShark]

Um-the kid in the picture was pretty obviously the same person Bucky killed ? Same face and all?

I already admitted I missed the connection. You missed the Smithsonian banner, I missed the son. (Also, I don't see why we're calling him kid. I did call him 'the guy's kid' in the context of a father losing a child, but he was clearly an adult.)

[Batman]

Fair enough

[GuppyShark]

We're cool, Bruce.

Idle speculation. Who even are the Avengers, now?

Cap is retired, Stark is dead, Thor and the Guardians are leaving. Etc etc, the list goes on.

Now the USA has unveiled a new Cap. Maybe War Machine is going to be the new leader of the Avengers? Rhodes had a pretty decent chunk of the first episode and has the most seniority and military rank.

[Broomstick]

The Smithsonian is a group of museums. Stuff donated to it for the most part don't leave the museums again.

'For the most part'. Who says they didn't make an exception this time? Is their anything saying they 'can't' release exhibits if they deem it is for a worthy cause?

Well, a lot of the art around the White House is on loan from the Smithsonian... And after the Columbia shuttle-break up I think the Enterprise shuttle from the Air and Space Museum was involved in the post-accident investigation... but it would be rare and unusual for something donated to the Smithsonian to go back into active use. I suppose it could. It just struck me as weird to have a big-deal donation then turn around and had the shield to someone to use again. Maybe it's just me.

[Crazedwraith]

That line Sam has about "Give and Take" is ... Really, really iffy at best. Like "Was this written by a white guy?!" levels of what the hell.

I missed that line I think. But obviously Sam's position in this episode is one he's going to evolve from over the show.

The not being paid bit was interesting. I'm not sure Sam was being entirely forthright the Bank guy. The lack of income was specific to the time frame where he was blipped. Even if he wasn't paid per se, I assume he was getting all expenses paid living in Avengers Compound when he was an Avenger full time.

Given Rhodey's bit to Sam, I'm surprised he didn't shoot back and ask if Rhodey is planning to take the Iron Man identity post blip.

All in all though, it was good. I like both their plot lines thus far, as it is good to get to concentrate on them as characters which the movies had very little time for. Sam's wholesome interactions with everyone are really nice, and his relationship with his sister feels real, they are at loggerheads but also casual and close. Though it's odd his sister specifically talks about the time missing from the blip, rather than the time he spend on the run post CW.

Buckys bit is good and he's like Cap only grumpier and more taciturn. Looking forward to them actually meeting and hanging out though.

Also was USAgent (new Cap) packing heat?

[Agent Fisher]

Also was USAgent (new Cap) packing heat?

Yeah, he had a pistol in a thigh holster. Which isn't' surprising really, Cap carried a 1911 during First Avenger, before he got super comfortable with throwing the shield like a Frisbee.

[Crazedwraith]

Also was USAgent (new Cap) packing heat?

Yeah, he had a pistol in a thigh holster. Which isn't' surprising really, Cap carried a 1911 during First Avenger, before he got super comfortable with throwing the shield like a Frisbee.

It's still a contrast to how Steve was in the modern era. I also noted that Sam didn't shoot anyone in the opening action scene. Well not with his machine pistols. Only killing second hand with Redwing's weapons. It shouldn't matter morally but I wonder if that imagery is significant.

[LadyTevar]

It's still a contrast to how Steve was in the modern era. I also noted that Sam didn't shoot anyone in the opening action scene. Well not with his machine pistols. Only killing second hand with Redwing's weapons. It shouldn't matter morally but I wonder if that imagery is significant.

That's something I missed, although we should note that Redwing's weapons was used against Vehicles. Yes, it still killed those inside, but it wasn't shooting at the people per-se

[LadyTevar]

'agency' (noun)
'A business or organization providing a particular service on behalf of another business, person, or group'
Pretty sure the Smithsonian falls under that

No, it doesn't. It gets government money, but it's NOT a Government Agency.
It is "America's Attic", full of all the stuff we want to keep for sentimental purposes. Things donated to the Smithsonian SHOULD NOT LEAVE IT. I don't care what Alphabet Agency pulled what shit to get it out, the Smithsonian should not have allowed it.
But, my brother put it bluntly -- "Now they lose it forever". Sam's not going to give it up a second time, especially when we see whatever secret Walker-Cap is hiding.

[Steve]

I admit I find it hard to believe Cap didn't check up on Sam's family during the blip. Granted, he might not have had the resources to do much, but he'd have helped in some ways.

[Crazedwraith]

I admit I find it hard to believe Cap didn't check up on Sam's family during the blip. Granted, he might not have had the resources to do much, but he'd have helped in some ways.

Damn, that's a good point, I hadn't thought of.

And I just got done bitching about no-one helping out Wanda in WandaVision as well.

[LadyTevar]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but we see Wanda at Tony's funeral at the end of the movie. Did it say how long after the end of the fight the funeral was?
We next see her entering SWORD. Could she have gone straight there from Tony's Funeral? Or with a day or two of it? Maybe no less than a week after? There's a good chance the Avengers were still stinging from their own wounds and assumed Wanda had gone off to mourn on her own.

The only real timeline we have is Rambeau is back at SWORD 3 weeks after Hulk snapped everyone back, and within 24-48 hours, was sucked into The Hex around Westview. So, assuming roughly a week to prep Tony's funeral, assume Wanda leaves straight for SWORD, maybe a day or two driving to NJ? The HEX could have only been up for 10-12 days -- maybe less.
We also can't trust the broadcasts, we have no idea if that was "just one day" for Wanda, or if it was what SWORD recorded.

[GuppyShark]

Funerals in America (I do not have first hand knowledge, I just looked it up on the Internet) seem to take place about a week after death. So maybe you could push that out to a fortnight if you had to given the global chaos of the Endgame scenario. I don't recall if it was open or closed casket, which does play a factor in how long a funeral is typically delayed.
EDIT: It was no casket. However, Clint and Wanda did have a scene together. Clint says he wishes there was a way he could tell Natasha that they won. Wanda says she does - "they both do".

[Crazedwraith]

Yeah, I guess my complaint in both cases is not really that it's very illogical or inexplicable, just I don't like it and want the Avengers to be closer and not just 'friends from work'. lol. Just a personal preference I guess.