Superman and Lois - Anyone Else Watching?

[Broomstick]

This is the new CW "Arrowverse" show, although there's no Arrow in it. It's just what it says on the tin: Superman and Lois, except this time around they have teenage twins. Like both Lois and Clark and Smallville we see more of the Clark side of the Krytonian although Superman does have a role here.

Anyone else watching? We're up to episode 3.

[Batman]

Um-Oliver's kind of 'dead' these days so no Arrow was sort of built in and he wasn't all that pervasive in the non-Arrow Arrowverse shows, it's just called the Arrowverse because Arrow spawned it.

I like it so far though I don't think it jives very well with the Arrowverse as I remember it immediately post-Crisis of Infinite Worlds? Because unless there's been a 14 year timejump since then Clark and Lois definitely didn't have kids

[Solauren]

I gave up on the universe a few seasons ago during the 'Flash vs the Thinker' season. TO much time between episodes, I lost interest.

Same thing happened with Agents of Shield.

[Broomstick]

In general, I find it hard to keep up with any show for more than a few years. I also think it has something to do with the number of episodes in a season, as I seem more inclined to keep up with British shows for more seasons/series than American ones. For really long-running shows I might come back after a hiatus, but after about 50-75 episodes at most I seem to have my fill and move on to something else for at least awhile.

I dropped the "Arrowverse" a few years ago. I dropped Arrow shortly after the Malcolm Merlin introduction because I was getting tired of the grimdark aspects. I followed The Flash for about three seasons, and Supergirl for three, Legends of Tomorrow for two. At which point I was just tired of following multiple shows. Never did watch the "Crisis on Infinite Worlds", although I am aware of it and the "reset" afterward.

I do have a certain fondness for Superman stories that focus more on Clark Kent and Lois, both on the large screen and (back when I was still into them) the comic books themselves. Which is what caught my eye for this show.

It is apart from the rest of the "Arrowverse" and currently stand-alone.

I am not worried about Clark and Lois suddenly having twins instead of a single son and the kids being "aged up" to 14. This is comic book stuff, not a tremendous amount of continuity at the best of times. Given the re-set, they don't have to worry about continuity.

There are some good things about the show and not just the visual appearance and CGI. I have found a surprising amount of the story is conveyed by the actions/reactions of the characters and not just by expository dialogue. They're advancing the storylines for the boys fairly rapidly instead of delving endlessly in teenage angst (so far). There are Superman doing Super Things scenes but they're not overwhelming. In other words, they seem to have a good balance between superhero and mundane.

Not thrilled with the casting for Jor-El, but that's a minor character and I can live with it.

But if no one else is watching I needn't bore anyone with a discussion.

[Batman]

I'm not worried about continuity, more like wondering if there's something in the year or so of the Arrowverse I missed that would explain the differences.If this is standalone I'm fine with that too.
And please no superhero teenage angst. Smallville gave us enough of that for ten lifetimes.

Jor-El was so minor I barely even noticed him, leave alone which actor played him. I was pissed by them killing off Martha.
I was surprised to find out Morgan Edge is a long established DC character, first time I heard of the guy (though he was a villain in Supergirl so I must've seen him before. Apparently he wasn't very memorable). And let's face it, Lex Luthor again would've been boring.

I'm definitely watching this as I like what I've seen so far. Even the costume is tolerable.

[Elheru Aran]

Edge was a minor villain in the 90s. Ran a rival media operation to the Planet IIRC.

[GuppyShark]

Following the Arrowverse is made a lot harder over here because of the horrible mess Warner Bros has made of their licensing. I tried to watch the Crisis and could only watch about 80% of it even using a VPN.

[Broomstick]

I'm over here in the States and could only manage to watch 4 of the 5 shows for Crisis... or 80%. So it's not just being abroad that does it. Although I probably do have more options for getting that "missing" episode than you do.

[TimothyC]

I'm not sure how much the show is set in the new Arrowverse, and how much of it is "we have this actor and this actress to play the roles".

I'm enjoying what we've seen so far, but like any show at this point I'm staying about an episode behind, and trying to not get hooked.

[Broomstick]

If I understand correctly after this week's episode it's going on hiatus for awhile - damn pandemic strikes again!

[Batman]

Hell I was afraid this would happen after 'last' week's episode.
And apparently Krypton was once again a shaped charge aimed squarely at Smallville. And did Edge say 'ex/X' kryptonite and 'resurrect' an army?
Using kryptonite to 'raise' an army is nothing new, Smallville's 'meteor freaks' come to mind, but using kryptomite to bring back the dead is news to me

[Broomstick]

And apparently Krypton was once again a shaped charge aimed squarely at Smallville.

Not that I am completely familiar with all Superman cannon and the variations, but if I recall there's a theory/explanation that the same forces that sent Kal and Kara's spaceships/escape pods to Earth also dragged along a lot of Krypton fragments behind them.

I'm waiting for someone to suggest that damn stuff grows from microscopic crystals to larger ones like some sort of weird mineral fungus.

And did Edge say 'ex/X' kryptonite and 'resurrect' an army?

Using kryptonite to 'raise' an army is nothing new, Smallville's 'meteor freaks' come to mind, but using kryptomite to bring back the dead is news to me

He said "X Kryptonite" which is, apparently, a thing and it gives non-Kryptonians Kryptonian superpowers. In most universes it's a temporary effect, but not always. That would account for this iteration's superpowered thugs.

He also did say "resurrect" an army, although so far as I know there is no form of Kryptonite that actually raises the dead. Perhaps he meant it in the sense of "I used to have an army. This will let me recruit a new army."

Hey, if this X Kryptonite is so good why doesn't Edge use it on himself? Hm....

For more specific and relationship details:

I am glad that Jonathan admitted to jealousy. Clark's point that Jon's position on the team is one that Jordan isn't going to be filling was a good one. No matter what, it would be unlikely that Jonathan was going to be starting quarterback as a freshman for any new school he attended and, as much as that was frustrating for him at first, having his nerd brother now a starter has to hurt.

Jordan being completely unable to catch a football, with Clark's comment "Well, that's why he plays defense" was worth a chuckle. And a demonstration of the "show, don't tell" of this series

Both of Clark's boys seem to have inherited his drive to help other people, even if it presents hazards to them and sometimes even if they don't want it.

Poor Tag - looked like he drew the "super speed" card but without the control. I hope he develops some.

There are some signs of "super-dickery" in Clark. Using his own super speed while practicing with his sons is, really, completely unfair. And that business of "the air is thin up here, it will help calm you down" - um.... it will help knock him out which I suppose is a form of "calm down".

The interactions between Clark and Lois were good at a couple points - the one before Lois goes out for drinks where she says she feels way down on the priority list is one that I think just about anyone has felt at one time or another when our families and lives are in turmoil. The "data" in the barn later was very romantic - not sure how the guys feel about that one but women eat that sort of thing up. I'm beginning to see why Lois and Clark had to go to Argo to conceive the boys - it was the only way to get uninterpreted time.

The show needs to strike a balance between the superhero stuff and the relationship stuff. Right now, I think they're leaning a bit more towards "relationship" which isn't inherently bad. Looks like we get another episode next week then a two month hiatus (damn global pandemic!)

[Batman]

And apparently Krypton was once again a shaped charge aimed squarely at Smallville.

Not that I am completely familiar with all Superman cannon and the variations, but if I recall there's a theory/explanation that the same forces that sent Kal and Kara's spaceships/escape pods to Earth also dragged along a lot of Krypton fragments behind them.

Well Kara DID bring an awful lot of kryptonite with her when she came to Earth (again). Didn't land in Kansas, even.

I'm waiting for someone to suggest that damn stuff grows from microscopic crystals to larger ones like some sort of weird mineral fungus.

Didn't they already do that in 'Superman Returns'?

And did Edge say 'ex/X' kryptonite and 'resurrect' an army?
Using kryptonite to 'raise' an army is nothing new, Smallville's 'meteor freaks' come to mind, but using kryptomite to bring back the dead is news to me

He said "X Kryptonite" which is, apparently, a thing and it gives non-Kryptonians Kryptonian superpowers. In most universes it's a temporary effect, but not always. That would account for this iteration's superpowered thugs.
He also did say "resurrect" an army, although so far as I know there is no form of Kryptonite that actually raises the dead. Perhaps he meant it in the sense of "I used to have an army. This will let me recruit a new army."
Hey, if this X Kryptonite is so good why doesn't Edge use it on himself? Hm....

That sounds like a sensible interpretation. And yes, there used to be such a thing as X Kryptonite (though with DC rewriting canon every 5 minutes who knows) and the original version DID give superpowers to humans

[GuppyShark]

I think I'm going to really enjoy this show.

My favourite Superman stories have always been about who he is rather than how hard he can punch. He's dealing with problems we all face, and how he addresses them will resonate with all of us.

[Broomstick]

I am not going to spoiler anything in this post so if you haven't seen episode 5 yet please wait until you do before proceeding, or accept the spoilers.

So.... Edge is literally resurrecting Kryptonians for his "army"? Are the humans used in the process dead or killed before being infused with a Kryptonian? Or is the result some sort of merging of personalities? Derek seemed pretty convinced he was some sort of dead-come-back-to-life. Also, Derek seemed to have a full suite of Kryptonian powers, not just one or two.

Looks like Edge told Derek to go back to mama to shut down the reporters prying into Derek's disappearance, which probably would have worked if whatever process being used is stable, which it apparently isn't. But if it isn't stable why doesn't Ms. Larr self-combust? Why is she stable? (Or is she?) She is also weirdly unemotional in most scenes (the only exception is the spit-swapping she does with Derek).

Edge is doing a lot of covering up - sending Derek to his mother, writing a check for lost donations for the Harvest Festival... This guy must be as wealthy as Bruce Wayne.

We have the Green Eye Monster Jealousy with Captain Luthor. I got a definite "he likes her" vibe when undercover Luthor first interacted with Lois, but by the end it's much more clear what's going on with Luthor.

Nice mundane utility with Clark smelling alcohol on Jonathan before anyone else - guess he really does have "supersmell". I'm glad that they're bringing up that for Jonathan the Smallville move has been utterly terrible and that Clark and Lois are even acknowledging that.

I'm kind of mixed about the Clark/Superboy flashbacks. I thought they were technically well down and fit in with the narrative, but I'm much more interested in the present day family and not Clark's past.

Interesting bit that Superman's global activities have increased. Maybe General Lane had a point there and Clark actually listened. I also like how that was done as a background event during a meal with Lois and the boys, more of the show and not tell. I guess cutting back to just two jobs (Superman and father) has freed up Clark's time a bit, although it looks like he's still taking time for some farming as well.

One the positive side: very nice memorial the town did for Ma Kent.

Tag came back a LOT sooner than I expected. So much for the "special school" with all sorts of protections/protocols/etc.

[Batman]

I don't know about 'full suite'-he had flight and heat vision, since he could go fisticuffs with Clark probably invulnerability and superstrength too. He didn't fly 'that' fast but since humans can't fly we don't know what would be 'regular' human flying speed so I suppose superspeed is at least partially in. But definitely more than one or two.
Did Derek explode because unstable powers or did he deliberately heat vision himself out of existence?
Where would Edge 'find' more Kryptonians to resurrect? In most narratives Clark was the lone survivor sent to Earth at least initially (it rarely stayed that way for long of course but that's usually the starting point). Did Clark come in some sort of ark with lots of other Kryptonians but he was the only one who originally survived the crash?
The Smallville fair thing would've been pretty small fry financially even in the real world. A couple ten thousand dollars tops. A couple hundred thousand if he also paid to have the building rebuilt. Also in the DCU, the really rich (which Morgan Edge is) tend to be absurdly rich. My bat gadget budget probably exceeds US military spending and nobody notices.
I think the boy Clark flashbacks were necessary to explain why present Clark reacted the way he did to Jonathan.

[ray245]

We have the Green Eye Monster Jealousy with Captain Luthor. I got a definite "he likes her" vibe when undercover Luthor first interacted with Lois, but by the end it's much more clear what's going on with Luthor.

Just how much of an entitled asshole is this Luthor? He refused to believe the current world he is on is different from the world he came from, and he got upset that things dare to appear different to him. Insisting that Superman must always be evil, and Lois must always belong to him really makes him feel like a jerk.

[Broomstick]

I guess Luthor is an entitled asshole in any universe...

Just because he might be a little more sympathetic than some other version of Luthor does not make him a good guy.

Actually, I think he IS aware this isn't his universe, painfully so. When the AI started to point out that there were things he wasn't taking into account he smashed the speaker. That's not a rational or thoughtful action.

[Broomstick]

I don't know about 'full suite'-he had flight and heat vision, since he could go fisticuffs with Clark probably invulnerability and superstrength too. He didn't fly 'that' fast but since humans can't fly we don't know what would be 'regular' human flying speed so I suppose superspeed is at least partially in. But definitely more than one or two.

There is also the factor that Derek isn't used to flying or the speed, so might not be confident enough to go faster. As someone who actually has flown, dealing with the increased speed isn't something that comes easily - first time I was flying at 240 knots (around 444 kph) I found it hard to keep up with things, where I was, where I was headed... busted airspace on two different airports about 100 km apart without intending to - it was uh, oh, about to bust this airspace, wow, there's a lot to keep track of, turn around, uh oh, here's another controlled airspace, damn, let's head south over cornfields...

Even if Derek has both flight and required secondary powers, faster thought processes, and faster reactions coordinating them is a different matter. As we saw with Jordan, just having a power doesn't mean you have skills/knowledge/experience to use it well.

Did Derek explode because unstable powers or did he deliberately heat vision himself out of existence?

I think it was lack of control. Between his heat vision going nuts at the donation building to his blurring in the final face-to-face with Supes, I think it was clear that his control was shaky at best. It could be that his use of his powers on that final flight eroded his control. Or maybe the process is just inherently unstable.

Where would Edge 'find' more Kryptonians to resurrect? In most narratives Clark was the lone survivor sent to Earth at least initially (it rarely stayed that way for long of course but that's usually the starting point). Did Clark come in some sort of ark with lots of other Kryptonians but he was the only one who originally survived the crash?

I think it has to do with that pod-thing Edge found, which was also attached to the "Bride of Frankenstein" MRI machine, which is presumably some sort of Kryptonian tech. Not living Kryptonians in bodies, but something else stored in the pod.

The Smallville fair thing would've been pretty small fry financially even in the real world. A couple ten thousand dollars tops. A couple hundred thousand if he also paid to have the building rebuilt. Also in the DCU, the really rich (which Morgan Edge is) tend to be absurdly rich. My bat gadget budget probably exceeds US military spending and nobody notices.

Sure, but I'm assuming this isn't the first such check Edge has written to cover damages caused by his pseudo-Kryptonians running amok. That adds up.

I think the boy Clark flashbacks were necessary to explain why present Clark reacted the way he did to Jonathan.

Sure, although Jonathon has a point about their situations having significant differences.

[GuppyShark]

Not seeing anything sympathetic about this Luthor.
The Smallville show spent entire seasons building up Lex and how he was friends with Clark and their eventual falling out.
The DCEU Luthor was abused by his religious father and saw Superman as another sign of God failing him.
This guy just showed up and started causing trouble, and now we know he's just jealous.

[ray245]

I guess Luthor is an entitled asshole in any universe...

Just because he might be a little more sympathetic than some other version of Luthor does not make him a good guy.

Actually, I think he IS aware this isn't his universe, painfully so. When the AI started to point out that there were things he wasn't taking into account he smashed the speaker. That's not a rational or thoughtful action.

Hard to sympathise with him when he tried to blow up a city block just to prove a point. This Luthor comes across as an idiot as well, constantly losing his equipment for no gain at all. He lost his kryptonite in a pointless fight, lost his ship, his suit and now his AI.

This Luthor acts more like an angsty teenager than any other actual teenager in the show.

[Broomstick]

Well, sure.

He's lost literally everyone he has ever known, including his loved ones, he's utterly alone, and living in another world where everything and everyone is a "false" copy of everything and everyone he's ever known. Between grief and dislocation I doubt he could be described as sane. Also, the anger-control issues you mention. A pretty weaksauce Luthor.

Edge is clearly the more capable opponent in this series. So far, Luthor could be cut entirely. I hope he plays some sort of important role later on, otherwise his presence is pointless.

[Batman]

It's back, in case anybody's still interested

[Broomstick]

Yes, I've been watching and I'm still interested but I didn't get the sense anyone else here (other than myself) was particularly interested. If that impression is incorrect I'd be happy to keep posting.

[Batman]

We're exactly one new episode in and so I was a little late picking up on it. Forgot this airs on Tuesday.