Anyone reading the comics these days?

[Patroklos]

If you were looking for a wayfinder, wouldn't the Emperor's intact throne room be the first place you search? No inside knowledge of ghost visit required.

[Solauren]

That makes some sense, but that's kind of obvious, and the Emperor was called Darth (in)Sidious.

Realistically, the Emperor should not have had his Wayfinder on him on the Death Star. That's the sort of thing you'd hide somewhere to make it hard to find for anyone that killed you.

Then again, how the Disney movies have handled hyperspace and navigation has been stupid. Pre-Disney - Calculate (took a bit of time), Jump, arrive. Disney treats Star Wars hyperdrive like it was Star Trek Warp drive.

Really, sometimes I have to wonder if when Disney purchased lucasfilm, someone got confused and thought they owned Star Trek

[MKSheppard]

You do when it's an attack dog that becomes more powerful and better at killing things if it's constantly riled up and terrified.

They're Sith Lords. They don't do friendship or healthy relationships built on mutual respect. Vader was making plans to kill Palpatine within a few hours of killing Mace Windu. Loyalty was never in the cards.

So, you're a Disney Author, then.

OK, I'm sorry that was uncalled for.

Honestly, look at the events of ROTS:

Palpatine when he doesn't get an update from Lord Vader several hours after the last one where he notified Palpatine of the Separatist leaders being killed, immediately books it to Mustafar in a shuttle equipped with top of the line medical equipment and droids.

He shows up at Mustafar, and instead of sneering at Lord Vader:

"You call yourself a Sith? Sith have no room for failures like you"

and leaving Vader to die -- like he's done to so many apprentices before:

Darth Maul -- he doesn't look too hard to find out if Maul survived or not.

Darth Sidious -- he has Anakin kill Sidious to close off loose ends.

--- he has Vader shoved into a medical tube and taken immediately to a secluded medical chamber on Coruscant full of beyond bleeding edge medical technology to try and save Vader's life.

I think there's kind of twisted surrogate father/son psychology going on here -- Obi Wan was Anakin's surrogate father for the Jedi, and Palpatine is Vader's surrogate father for the Sith.

[Solauren]

The Darth Vader novel set right after REvenge of the Sith (yeah, it's non canon now), goes into this.

Part of being a Sith is learning all you can from your Master, while plotting to grow stronger then your Master so you can kill them and take their mantle. It's why by the time of Darth Sidious, the Sith are so powerful.

(In the Darth Plaguesis novel, he really did have the power to resurrect the recently dead, and in fact did it on several occasions)

In RPG game terms, the goal is to become 2 levels above your master in power, then kill him. Even if you start with Darth Bane at 'level 20', Do that for 20 - 30 Sith lords (as implied by the Darth Plaguesis novel), and you would end up with a level 30+ Sith Lord in the form of Darth Sidious.

So, in the twisted way of the Sith, Sidious is encouraging Vader to grow stronger, and more powerful, to eventually depose him.

[MKSheppard]

Marvel has overexposed Vader to the point he suffers from badass decay, killing any further interest I have in the company's depiction of the character.

I'm at this point; there's only so many times I can see the same plot play out:

1.) Vader goes somewhere with a bunch of stormtroopers (or Imperial soldiers / or Imperial Force Acolytes) on a mission for the Empire
2.) Everyone but Vader dies during the mission.
3.) (OPTIONAL) It is revealed to be a quadruple secret triple crossing mission. Palpatine laughs at Vader and reveals it was all (another) test.
4.) Repeat.

[MKSheppard]

So, in the twisted way of the Sith, Sidious is encouraging Vader to grow stronger, and more powerful, to eventually depose him.

Why would he want that? Remember that the goal of the Rule of Two was to eventually become strong enough to depose the Jedi and crush them; hence the constant "one upping" as you point out to slowly build up the strength of the Sith.

But...Five years after ROTS, the Jedi are pretty much 99.5% extinct, either being dead or driven so far underground by Jedi Hunters that they're non entities like Ben Kenobi on Tatooine.

Mission accomplished?

I think Palpatine would be smart enough to unilaterally redefine how the whole "Rule of Two" works after that -- now that you're running the GALACTIC EMPIRE -- you can't have constant sith backstabbing and murder plots between you and your number two.

Remember, in the entire SW EU both new and old, there are references to past Sith Empires that rose and fell -- do you think Palpatine wants to be remembered as "just another Sith ruler who was eventually deposed"?

EDIT: I mean, I can understand WHY Palpatine would set up Vader as a "test" to see if he's still worthy of the title of being called Lord Vader -- but that test would come EARLY in Vader's career in the Suit; when Palpatine is not quite sure if Lord Vader is still there -- or if his defeat at the hands of Kenobi and subsequent Cyborgization took the "fire" away.

But to do it over and over and over?

[Solauren]

That's the nature of the Sith.

Remember, that's what Palpatine/Sidious went through under his training. Constant tests by his Master. (in the Darth Plageusis novel, Sidious even asks when they will end, and Plageusis goes 'when they are no longer needed'.)

Hell, 15 years after he first accepted Sidious, he was still testing him. (Ironically, that was also the last test)

I'd have to qoute the equal of 2 chapters from Darth Plageusis and 'Dark Lord' to explain it fully. It's even supported by the Disney-verse novel 'Lords of the Sith'.

It's the Emperor's duty as a Sith (which trumps his concern as Emperor) to make Vader as powerful as possible, or to replace him.
Combine in the facts that -
Sidious views Vader like a son, but he himself had an abusive relationship with his biological father. (Now add in his next father figure is a Sith Lord)
Sidious is a master manipulator
Sidious has an almost obsessive need to control things
Sidious might be a psychopath.

Well..... you get a power mad Emperor, who believes he's won and invincible, so he's constantly pushing the buttons on Sith-turned-Jedi-Chosen One for his own amusement under the guise of Sith training/testing. Hell, Sidious might even believe it himself!

[Gandalf]

Given that he's known Anakin and presumably been grooming him since he was nine or so, perhaps Palpatine thought that he's found a perfect apprentice. Theoretically, Anakin would never try to overcome him, and with the machine bits, never be able to do so either. He could rule eternally as King Space Wizard, and his apprentice powerful enough to protect the throne, but not enough to try and usurp it.

This all went wrong of course.

[Elfdart]

No, what's even worse is....

VADER KNEW ALL THIS.

YET VADER DIDNT TELL LUKE AS HE LAY DYING ON THE SECOND DEATH STAR IN ROTJ.

"THE EMPEROR IS NOT YET DEAD. HE SLEEPS ON EXEGOL. YOU WILL NEED A HOLOCR.....ugghggghgh" *dies*

The only way to make any of this work -let alone make sense- is to have it all be just a bad dream, like when Dallas wrote off a terrible season by showing that Pam was dreaming and her dead husband was in the shower the whole time. Quite frankly, I think a Star Wars movie that's a comeback vehicle for Patrick Duffy sounds a lot more interesting than any of the furballs Disney's coughed up so far.

I did see a few panels from a Vader comic where he goes back to Naboo, meets up with some of Padme's old retainers and investigates what really happened to his wife. That would have been perfect material for a stand-alone movie or mini-series -especially since the actors from TPM and AOTC (Keira Knightley, Dominic West, Richard Armitage, Rose Byrne) would be the perfect age to reprise their roles now.

[Solauren]

The easiest way to handle the Disney-trilogy would be for all future material to ignore it.

[Crazedwraith]

Given that he's known Anakin and presumably been grooming him since he was nine or so, perhaps Palpatine thought that he's found a perfect apprentice. Theoretically, Anakin would never try to overcome him, and with the machine bits, never be able to do so either. He could rule eternally as King Space Wizard, and his apprentice powerful enough to protect the throne, but not enough to try and usurp it.

This all went wrong of course.

That works with his ressurection on Byss/Exegol but not with RotJ where he was trying to recruit Luke as a better apprentice who would not have the same limitations as Vader.

[MKSheppard]

The only way to make any of this work -let alone make sense- is to have it all be just a bad dream, like when Dallas wrote off a terrible season by showing that Pam was dreaming and her dead husband was in the shower the whole time. Quite frankly, I think a Star Wars movie that's a comeback vehicle for Patrick Duffy sounds a lot more interesting than any of the furballs Disney's coughed up so far.

Disney SW has completely cured me of my SW fandom. Why get invested in it, when it'll be rebooted/wiped clean or fucked with anyway?

I did see a few panels from a Vader comic where he goes back to Naboo, meets up with some of Padme's old retainers and investigates what really happened to his wife. That would have been perfect material for a stand-alone movie or mini-series -especially since the actors from TPM and AOTC (Keira Knightley, Dominic West, Richard Armitage, Rose Byrne) would be the perfect age to reprise their roles now.

That was a decent comic; but "Vader looks for his wife to find out what really happened" was already fucking done by Marvel comics themselves before!

Basically, near the end of the first run of Marvel Darth Vader series back in 2015 (has it been that long?) in Star Wars: Darth Vader #6; Vader has hired Boba Fett to track down the Rebel pilot who destroyed the Death Star.

In typical comic Disney bullshit (lolwhut) Fett encounters Luke in Obi Wan's old house in the Dune Sea -- Luke has apparently returned there to look for whatever Obi Wan left behind -- and fights with Luke, but Luke gets away. In the end, after killing people in Mos Eisley and beating them up, all Fett is left with is a name: Skywalker.















From there, you can see how Vader legitimately begins seeking to kill the Emperor in earnest; because Vader feels that Palpatine has lied to him, betrayed him.

Before that, Vader was deep into the whole "surrogate father figure" thing with Palpatine, but after that, it's broken irrevocably.

But of course, Disney had to fuck up the overall arc over several years.

[Patroklos]

So, in the twisted way of the Sith, Sidious is encouraging Vader to grow stronger, and more powerful, to eventually depose him.

Why would he want that? Remember that the goal of the Rule of Two was to eventually become strong enough to depose the Jedi and crush them; hence the constant "one upping" as you point out to slowly build up the strength of the Sith.

But...Five years after ROTS, the Jedi are pretty much 99.5% extinct, either being dead or driven so far underground by Jedi Hunters that they're non entities like Ben Kenobi on Tatooine.

Mission accomplished?

I think Palpatine would be smart enough to unilaterally redefine how the whole "Rule of Two" works after that -- now that you're running the GALACTIC EMPIRE -- you can't have constant sith backstabbing and murder plots between you and your number two.

Remember, in the entire SW EU both new and old, there are references to past Sith Empires that rose and fell -- do you think Palpatine wants to be remembered as "just another Sith ruler who was eventually deposed"?

EDIT: I mean, I can understand WHY Palpatine would set up Vader as a "test" to see if he's still worthy of the title of being called Lord Vader -- but that test would come EARLY in Vader's career in the Suit; when Palpatine is not quite sure if Lord Vader is still there -- or if his defeat at the hands of Kenobi and subsequent Cyborgization took the "fire" away.

But to do it over and over and over?

From just the movies, sure. But the EU sort of made it sound like the second the Jedi were gone Palpantine was board of ruling the galaxy. Been there done that, and the next frontier was arcane dark side mumbo jumbo and hocus pocus.

It sort of makes sense in a way. The reason to get rid of the Jedi was to allow the Sith to exist in the open or at the very least not be actively suppressed, allowing them the freedom to indulge in the dark side without looking over your shoulder. Depending on our EU entry dejure, the resources/dominiation of a galaxy is or is not required.

[MKSheppard]

Elfdart, here's where it gets really FUCKED.

Disney can't even keep their comic storylines consistent over five years!

The Vader 2015 series is set immediately after A New Hope.

In Vader 2015 #7, immediately after finding out he has a son; Vader books it to Tatooine.



And he then investigates Obi Wan's old hideout, before destroying it with a thermal detonator.

A few issues later in Vader 2015 #10, Vader has Doctor Aphra and her associates interrogate a very old man on Naboo. After much torture, he spills the beans:



This is where I lose all respect for Disney.

By Darth Vader Series 2020, the timeline has moved to right after Empire Strikes Back; and...

In Darth Vader #2020 #1, Vader is once again BACK at Tatooine



After fucking around at Tatooine, Vader Returns to Coruscant to the former Senatorial Apartments that Padme inhabited:





Eventually, Vader tracks down where Obi Wan took Padme after Mustafar...

but...

Why the fuck is Vader doing this now in Empire Strikes Back?

Shouldn't he have done that back in A New Hope, after finding out he has a son?

Consistency is key; and if they can't even do this over a short period of five years with modern digital comics -- it's not like in 1995, fucking up because you didn't read a comic from 1970 before writing your new story because there's no formal archives at Marvel or whatever.

But in 2019-2020?

[MKSheppard]

But the EU sort of made it sound like the second the Jedi were gone Palpantine was board of ruling the galaxy. Been there done that, and the next frontier was arcane dark side mumbo jumbo and hocus pocus.

It sort of makes sense in a way. The reason to get rid of the Jedi was to allow the Sith to exist in the open or at the very least not be actively suppressed, allowing them the freedom to indulge in the dark side without looking over your shoulder. Depending on our EU entry dejure, the resources/dominiation of a galaxy is or is not required.

That's the thing though. Palpatine was smart enough to succeed where prior Sith Lords had failed thousands of years ago. He managed to eliminate the Jedi Order pretty much utterly.

I can get that Palpatine's ego would be big enough to blind him to certain things; but he SHOULD at least maintain a minimal level of political saavy to ensure that the galaxy is running smoothly in the background while he does his Sith Abominations Against the Force (TM).

That being said, I can get that Palpatine by A New Hope, deliberately let the Rebellion happen; because with the overwhelming power of COMPNOR and ISB and the capability of SuperFacebook in Star Wars to identify people etc...

So he's letting Mon Mothma go and get all the dissidents riled up so that he can kill them openly -- a sort of bleeding as it were -- of the Empire of possible counter revolutionary elements, to prevent the decay and fall of the Empire after only just 20 years; because he's also studied the fall of previous Sith Empires.

But the way Disney and all the other EU authors did it was just kind of meh -- they always defaulted to constant quadruple crossings and constant sith tests of Vader and potential force sensitives...

[Galvatron]

No, what's even worse is....

VADER KNEW ALL THIS.

YET VADER DIDNT TELL LUKE AS HE LAY DYING ON THE SECOND DEATH STAR IN ROTJ.

"THE EMPEROR IS NOT YET DEAD. HE SLEEPS ON EXEGOL. YOU WILL NEED A HOLOCR.....ugghggghgh" *dies*

But Vader didn't know everything. He saw the cloning tanks and the superlaser ships, but the Emperor didn't tell him that he was able to cheat death and leap into another body.

And it's altogether possible that ghost-Anakin did warn Luke about Exegol, which would explain why he and Lando were searching for it.

[Solauren]

Part of the problem with the new Star Wars comics is the same as the comic industry in general.

Rebooting every few years means you can recycle the material over and over, and just put a new spin on it.

Kind of like if the book company that owned Harry potter let authors redo the Harry Potter series,with one or two character changes. (Ala fanfiction) every decade, to 'update it'.

[Darth Yan]

No, what's even worse is....

VADER KNEW ALL THIS.

YET VADER DIDNT TELL LUKE AS HE LAY DYING ON THE SECOND DEATH STAR IN ROTJ.

"THE EMPEROR IS NOT YET DEAD. HE SLEEPS ON EXEGOL. YOU WILL NEED A HOLOCR.....ugghggghgh" *dies*

The only way to make any of this work -let alone make sense- is to have it all be just a bad dream, like when Dallas wrote off a terrible season by showing that Pam was dreaming and her dead husband was in the shower the whole time. Quite frankly, I think a Star Wars movie that's a comeback vehicle for Patrick Duffy sounds a lot more interesting than any of the furballs Disney's coughed up so far.

I did see a few panels from a Vader comic where he goes back to Naboo, meets up with some of Padme's old retainers and investigates what really happened to his wife. That would have been perfect material for a stand-alone movie or mini-series -especially since the actors from TPM and AOTC (Keira Knightley, Dominic West, Richard Armitage, Rose Byrne) would be the perfect age to reprise their roles now.

The Mandalorian has been a legitimate blast so far (and it made Boba Fett feel like an honest badass when he does show up). Some of the Clone Wars stuff (the Siege of Mandalore, the Umbara Arc, and the Mortis Arc) have been fantastic as well. The 2015 Vader Comics have been universally well received too.

It's like the old EU. There was a LOT of shit in it but there were also a few moments of genuine brilliance (some of the Clone Wars stuff like the Jabiim Arc and the Yoda oneshot with King Alaric were things I'd think Lucas himself would have approved of).

The scene where Vader learns about Luke's soon (that Sheppard pointed out) was fantastic as well.

Here's a list of what's considered the best Clone Wars episodes. If you do have the time you should check them out.

https://www.ign.com/articles/star-wars- ... darth-maul

[MKSheppard]

But Vader didn't know everything. He saw the cloning tanks and the superlaser ships, but the Emperor didn't tell him that he was able to cheat death and leap into another body.

If I see cloning cylinders and they're full of Sheev Palpatine clones (remember, Vader is old enough to have seen Palpatine before he became old evil wizard palpatine)...um...yeah, it doesn't take a genius to figure this out.

[MKSheppard]

It's like the old EU. There was a LOT of shit in it but there were also a few moments of genuine brilliance

Like this:
Spoiler

Basically, Padme Amidala's retinue thinks that Vader killed both Anakin and Padme on Mustafar, through basic inference:

Vader: "Explain yourselves."

Typho: "I told you, Vader...the last time I saw Padme, she was heading to Mustafar to find Skywalker."

Sabe: "Years later, we learned that Mustafar was YOUR domain...YOU killed them...didn't you?"

so they set up a plot to kill Vader and avenge Padme and Anakin.

[MKSheppard]

It's like the old EU. There was a LOT of shit in it but there were also a few moments of genuine brilliance

Like this:
Spoiler

Basically, Padme Amidala's retinue thinks that Vader killed both Anakin and Padme on Mustafar, through basic inference:

Vader: "Explain yourselves."

Typho: "I told you, Vader...the last time I saw Padme, she was heading to Mustafar to find Skywalker."

Sabe: "Years later, we learned that Mustafar was YOUR domain...YOU killed them...didn't you?"

so they set up a plot to kill Vader and avenge Padme and Anakin.

[Darth Yan]

Spoiler isn't working. For either of them. I can't even open them.

[Batman]

The quote/spoiler combo doesn't work. This is a known issue.

[Darth Yan]

That is annoying. Could Shep post it again?

[MKSheppard]

Well OK.

Like Darth Yan was saying, the Disneyverse has some good points, like:
Spoiler

A whole bunch of Naboo royalty/nobility deciding (logically) that Vader killed both Anakin and Padme, and thus Vader must die: