ESB Command tower

Darth PhysBod · Post by **Darth PhysBod** » 2003-04-01 06:06am

Just something from sb.com

http://man1ac0.tripod.com/AstTower.avi

Right click save as (DivX codec required)

If you playback the clip in a loop you can see the shadow that appears to be the rear of the command tower moving relative to the engine glow.

I.e the tower would be at least partially intact (from these visuals alone).

So what do you think?

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-04-01 06:12am

There is no precedent from the visuals to say the tower is not intact.
All that can be gauged is that the asteroid impacted and pulverized against the surface of the tower and that communications where interrupted because of it.

Thats all the visuals tells us with any modicum of certainty.

DocHorror · Post by **DocHorror** » 2003-04-01 10:44am

IIRC the novel does state that the SD was heavily damaged. Though whether you take the novel as informative is another matter...

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-04-01 10:48am

http://kier.3dfrontier.com/forums/showt ... genumber=1

Yes fuckhead, the captain was not on the bridge reporting to Vader even though the bridge is where the holocom and it is the EX's job to check engineering and other spaces.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-04-01 11:59am

DocHorror wrote:IIRC the novel does state that the SD was heavily damaged. Though whether you take the novel as informative is another matter...

The novel is unreconcileable with the movie, unless it refers to another different scenario, which is also unlikely, but better than nothing I suppose.

A giant asteroid, not likely, not from the movies vantage point and not from Vaders, which in the movie was not by any windows anywhere.
Nor did the asteroid pulverize the ship, the asteroid was visually pulverized against the ship.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-04-01 01:09pm

We’ve known this for a long time. No command tower was destroyed during the filming, so its impossible for visuals to show it was destroyed or damaged.

Mad · Post by **Mad** » 2003-04-01 01:30pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:We’ve known this for a long time. No command tower was destroyed during the filming, so its impossible for visuals to show it was destroyed or damaged.

Are there any definitive quotes for that? Not doubting it so much as really, really wanting to use just such a quote in the Spacebattles thread...

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-04-01 06:32pm

DocHorror wrote:IIRC the novel does state that the SD was heavily damaged. Though whether you take the novel as informative is another matter...

The novel scene does not appear to coincide with the visuals from the movie. It appears to be a separate incident, involving many more officers in the holoconference, and also revealing information that Vader could not have known from his actual location in the movie.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-04-01 10:21pm

Mad wrote:
Are there any definitive quotes for that? Not doubting it so much as really, really wanting to use just such a quote in the Spacebattles thread...

Unfortunately no.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-04-01 10:36pm

It is obvious the intent of the scene was to show the ISD having its bridge blown off. If they meant to show it survive they would have actualy shown a lightened image of it with maybe minor scaring. The fact is the bridge area was darkened so as to hide it with the starfield and the debris. It is only our careful observation that spots the bridge tower remained intact. HOWEVER, visuals are what they are. Without any sort of contradiction we have to assume the ISDs bridge tower survived the hit relatively unscathed. The Captain might have flinched and the communications knocked out, but the structure remained intact from what we can see.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-04-01 10:41pm

Alyeska wrote:It is obvious the intent of the scene was to show the ISD having its bridge blown off. If they meant to show it survive they would have actualy shown a lightened image of it with maybe minor scaring. The fact is the bridge area was darkened so as to hide it with the starfield and the debris. It is only our careful observation that spots the bridge tower remained intact. HOWEVER, visuals are what they are. Without any sort of contradiction we have to assume the ISDs bridge tower survived the hit relatively unscathed. The Captain might have flinched and the communications knocked out, but the structure remained intact from what we can see.

And this my friends is the wonders of Suspension of Disbelief. The ISD survived, even if it wasn't intended to. Thus the ISD survived, no questions asked.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-04-02 12:47am

Alyeska wrote:It is obvious the intent of the scene was to show the ISD having its bridge blown off

I don't think thats obvious at all.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-04-02 12:49am

I still think that it's somewhat rediculous to assume that all the asteroid did was disrupt communications. There had to be some damage, if somewhat minor.

In my opinion, I don't think that an ISD tower can shrug off the impact of an asteroid that's about a third of the size of the entire tower.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-04-02 12:57am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:I still think that it's somewhat rediculous to assume that all the asteroid did was disrupt communications. There had to be some damage, if somewhat minor

You don't get it, it's not an assumption, it's the only conclusion one can make from the movie without going into assumptions, anything beyond those two factors are assumptions.
And if it disrupted communication, well it did do some damage then.

In my opinion, I don't think that an ISD tower can shrug off the impact of an asteroid that's about a third of the size of the entire tower.

Noted, and disagreed with, infact I think this whole asteroids are so dangerous brain bug that is so prevalent is utterly ridiculous.

And the visuals shows the asteroid pulverizing in a manner that would have happened if the impactor failed to penetrate/twist/destroy the target sufficiently, in essence it impacted on and pulverized itself, as in the thing it hit was too hard and ridgid for it to affect, like a car crashing into a several meter thick steel wall.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-04-02 01:42am

Well, using the car/wall analogy (although car/train would also work), that does make sense.

I concede.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-04-02 02:07am

It does not rule out any damage though, the impact could have jarred and knocked systems out of alignement or caused secondary explosions or stuff like that too, but as was said, we cannot be sure what really happened beyond the communications being disrupted.

Lord Edam · Post by **Lord Edam** » 2003-04-02 06:53am

Master of Ossus wrote:The novel scene does not appear to coincide with the visuals from the movie. It appears to be a separate incident, involving many more officers in the holoconference, and also revealing information that Vader could not have known from his actual location in the movie.

I went over this in detail with HDS over at the SB forums a few months back. Conclusion: either they refer to the same scene(that was altered slightly - specifically the number of holograms present) or Vader and the emperor are in the habit of repeating themselves.

http://kier.3dfrontier.com/forums/showt ... adid=41149

(round about page 6/7 I think)

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-04-02 06:56am

Actually my conclusion was they're just contradictions(I think).

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-04-02 07:40am

Could the reason for the communications disruption be shields being activated to destroy the asteroid rather than damage?

Warspite · Post by **Warspite** » 2003-04-02 07:44am

No, too late for that, we see the asteroid impact, cut to Vader's conference, where the captain is already reacting to a bright ligth, and the comunication ends. The asteroid impacts before any shield could be raised in the bridge.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-04-02 12:47pm

His Divine Shadow wrote:
Alyeska wrote:It is obvious the intent of the scene was to show the ISD having its bridge blown off
I don't think thats obvious at all.

You are wrong. You ask any average viewer at the theaters if the tower survived and they will say no. The intent was to portray it destoyed. Had they wanted to make it known the tower survived they would not have blacked out all color on the tower to hide it with the starfield.

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2003-04-02 01:06pm

AAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHH Not this again. Scooter has started a new thread at SB .......I think at one point he claims the scenebacked up and showed the captains reaction to the complete destruction of his Star Destroyer...I could be wrong but still.......

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2003-04-02 07:02pm

You are wrong. You ask any average viewer at the theaters if the tower survived and they will say no.

The average viewer also thinks that Canada is the 51st state. I'd recommend that we not use the "average viewer" as a yardstick.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2003-04-02 07:03pm

Scooter has started a new thread at SB .......I think at one point he claims the scenebacked up and showed the captains reaction to the complete destruction of his Star Destroyer

In the interest of total accuracy, that was someone else who made that claim. DS might've agreed with it, but I haven't been back to that thread yet to check.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-04-02 07:16pm

SPOOFE wrote:
You are wrong. You ask any average viewer at the theaters if the tower survived and they will say no.
The average viewer also thinks that Canada is the 51st state. I'd recommend that we not use the "average viewer" as a yardstick.

Touchee.

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