Black Widow movie (Spoilers!)

[Solauren]

Long Delayed, it's now out.

Overall, I enjoyed it.

I agree with my wife, however, their is so much they left out they should have included.

i.e.
More of Natasha evading Ross
More of Natasha heading to Budapest
Flashbacks to Natasha and Clint in Budapest (enough to hint at and cause even more demand for a Black Widow/Hawkeye movie)
Possible Elaine fleeing after her mind was free.
More about Elaine's time serving the Red Room
More in the Red Room, possibly hinting that the Red Room was as much a Hydra project as it was Soviet.
Possibly a flashback to Natasha as a Widow with a cameo by Bucky as the Winter Soldier
Possibly a flashback showing the reason Red Guardian was tossed in prison (a nice tough would be was because he tried to get Elaina and Natasha out of the Widow program)
Possibly a flashback showing Melina's time as a Widow. Possibly one showing her being blackmailed with Natasha's life to keep working for the Red Room.

Yeah, that's enough to make it two movies. However, as my wife pointed out when we were discussing the movie afterwards
Really, it felt like two movies. The first one a gritty spy movie, up to the rescue of Red Guardian. The second they went after Red Guardian, it become a super-hero movie.


I understand why people might have complained about Task Master, but, without mutants running around, cyborg augmentation is a good explanation.

[Crazedwraith]

I loved it. blew my socks off. I don't know if it's just not having gone to the cinema since like the last marvel tentpole. pre-pandemic but I loved the experience.

I thought it was a little odd that Black Widow got her ass kicked quite so often in her own movie. I mean it felt realistic that she lost or stalemated the fights. Taskmaster not knowing their abilities, Yelena's her equal as a Black Widow and then vs 20 odd Widows of course she's not going to win. But it's her solo movie... and I thought they could have done more with the final fight with Taskmaster.

it was fun seeing Taskmaster and trying to figure who's movies they were copying. I caught Black Widow's own moves. Cap's, Hawkeye's, Black Panther's and I think Winter Soldier's knifeplay?

I'm a big Hawkeye fan though so I was so they didn't use the bow more. And that leads me onto the final stinger, like the one from Spider-man: Far From Home, just drove the rest of the film out my mind had my jaw dropping and going holy fuck in the cinema. Yelena vs Clint? I really really hope that's getting a follow up Hawkeye.

eta: I assumed if people were complaining about Taskmaster, it would be their revised origin story/identity not the cybernetics

[Lost Soal]

Overall I enjoyed the movie, but Taskmaster was played up then ultimately cast aside, we very little of the fight with Red Guardian he seems to lose their abilities at the end for a quick defeat. Also that 2 weeks later jump was such bullshit.

[Solauren]

Overall I enjoyed the movie, but Taskmaster was played up then ultimately cast aside, we very little of the fight with Red Guardian he seems to lose their abilities at the end for a quick defeat. Also that 2 weeks later jump was such bullshit.

The two week later jump was annoying for us as well. HOW did she get away from Ross and co? Is that how Cap knew where to find the Raft?

Like I said, you could have filled in the holes and gotten 2 movies out of it.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Yes, Red Guardian didn't do an awful lot after his escape from prison, it's implied that he'd had some Winter-soldier type super serum. In many ways he was like Endgame!Thor: fat and out of shape.

They did make use of the disguise tech first seen in Cap: Winter Soldier only they took it a stage further with a straight swap. They also used some tricks from the Mission Impossible series by showing that it was their intention to first get the bad guy to reveal how he was controlling his agents and wanted to trick him into breaking his own pheromone-lock. The whole "severing the nerve" thing was such bullshit though- it takes far more than a simple broken nose to do what they were attempting.

I was also looking forward to flashbacks with Hawkeye, instead of more details on what happened in Budapest all we learned was that they hid in an air-vent passageway for two days.

In the stinger they had Valentina Allegra de Fontaine (from Falcon and the Winter Soldier) pop up and set Yelena against Hawkeye believing he's responsible for Widow's death. How she came to know what went down on Vormir is not explained as the only other individual present was Red Skull. Unless Cap spilled the beans on what happened during that mission.

[Solauren]

In the stinger they had Valentina Allegra de Fontaine (from Falcon and the Winter Soldier) pop up and set Yelena against Hawkeye believing he's responsible for Widow's death. How she came to know what went down on Vormir is not explained as the only other individual present was Red Skull. Unless Cap spilled the beans on what happened during that mission.

Perhaps she's making it up (and doesn't know, and got lucky that he was connected) and just wants him dead?

[LadyTevar]

In the stinger they had Valentina Allegra de Fontaine (from Falcon and the Winter Soldier) pop up and set Yelena against Hawkeye believing he's responsible for Widow's death. How she came to know what went down on Vormir is not explained as the only other individual present was Red Skull. Unless Cap spilled the beans on what happened during that mission.

Perhaps she's making it up (and doesn't know, and got lucky that he was connected) and just wants him dead?

If Valentina Allegra de Fontaine is anything close to the comics, she's got connections to SHIELD and HYDRA. Either one would get her that information.

[Solauren]

The question is, would Hydra or Shield HAVE that information? I can't see the Avengers admitting they have Time Travel technology. That would bring everyone looking into it.

[Gandalf]

The Avengers have historically had an interesting relationship with security, so it doesn't seem a stretch for it to be sitting in a file somewhere.

[Crazedwraith]

As far as the movies are concerned shield and hydra don't exist any more. They still exist in AoS but that's not really in continuity with the movies.

[Solauren]

SHIELD and Hydra probably do exist still, but not openly/publically. for Shield, all you need is a high level official to gather up some pieces and reorganize it. For Hydra, all you need is someone from hydra to escape notice, with access to some of their resources.

[Gandalf]

At the end of Infinity War, Fury's "code red" was presumably meant for someone, so a downsized SHIELD is possible.

[GuppyShark]

Didn't Stark hoover up a bunch of SHIELD folk?

[Crazedwraith]

Didn't Stark hoover up a bunch of SHIELD folk?

Stark hired Maria Hill. Who was basically just spying on him for Fury as per AoU.

Fury has enough of an organisation left to skeleton crew a helicarrier but it's very ambigious from the films where/what/how this happened and what kind of resources and authority he has with him. He seemed to be running the Avengers support staff at the end of AoU but it all vanished by the time Civil War appeared.

According to Agents of SHIELD, SHIELD went underground a fought HYDRA for a bit before becoming rehabilitated and official again. This will never ever be referenced by the movies.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

It's here: