Apple TV's Foundation

[Batman]

If anything going by the books Spoiler

Eto Demerzel is probably a mentalist at this time, though it wasn't in the earlier Foundation books because an affection for telepathic stuff was added to the series later, albeit as a prequel, IIRC.

Spoiler

The basic concept of mentalics came with the Mule and Second Foundation. The character of Eto Demerzel (and him being a cover for R. Daneel Olivaw and thus a mentalic robot) indeed wasn't introduced until 'Prelude to Foundation'

Yes, mixing spoilers with quotes still doesn't work but this DOES potentially give away future plot points for those what haven't read the books.
You wanna read the spoilers just quote the post

[Batman]

The longer this goes on the more it feels like Dune or maybe Stargate (with the Imperium being the Goa'uld)

[Paolo]

We all knew why the "Clone Cleon" was happening. Gotta keep Lee Pace in it for the duration. Still, clever.

[Batman]

This isn't Foundation. This is 'we wanted to do something Dune but couldn't afford the rights and were afraid we wouldn't get financed without a big name so we put a Foundation sticker on it'

[bilateralrope]

All the Imperial Commander had to do to prevent the Anacreons getting onto the Invictus was sacrifice himself. He had two opportunities for a clean death. Keep his speed up during the spacewalk so he slams into the hull or let the ships guns take him out once they started shooting.

But no. For those scenes, everyone was loyal to the Anacreons plan for the one part when someone resisting could have had the most effect.

Oh and Phara somehow knows that the Invictus only runs an ID check at the airlock door. That there are no internal ID checks within the ship. She's shown a very impressive ability to predict the future for her whole plan. Far better than the two characters the writers have written as being able to predict things.

[Batman]

If two people close together count as a target 'two metres across' that ship's sensors have really lousy resolution

[bilateralrope]

If those defenses were intended to be anti-personal, then there are also issues with the amount of cover around the airlock.

But if we are talking about a defense system only intended to shoot down incoming ships/warheads, setting a 2m threshold* in the target acquisition algorithm could make sense.

*For objects moving slowly enough.

[Batman]

With firepower this pathetic they pretty much 'have' to be anti-personell

[FaxModem1]

This isn't Foundation. This is 'we wanted to do something Dune but couldn't afford the rights and were afraid we wouldn't get financed without a big name so we put a Foundation sticker on it'

It's telling that instincts, psychic powers, luck, souls, and faith are being more stressed than rational and analytical thinking, planning things out, and doing what you can to avoid conflict. Almost as if they're just using the trappings or Foundation and not the themes of it.

[NecronLord]

I mean, psychic powers is definitely not one that Asimov can be exonerated of. I think they're bringing in Second Foundation early.

[bilateralrope]

After the latest episode, I think that Gaal will turn out to be the Mule. So her powers could fit with the books.

The problem is that she's not the only person with possibly psychic abilities. We also have warden Salvor Hardin, with the line "repeated luck is not luck" suggesting that the writers intend for her to be more than lucky. Throwing away the "individuals don't matter" bit of psychohistory very early.

Then we have Phara Keaen and her plan going exactly as she wanted, even with moves like her executing the imperial commander because she somehow knew the airlock would be the last ID check. Until the plot flips a switch and her plan stops working. Probably just bad writing.

[NecronLord]

Oh! On that.

All the Imperial Commander had to do to prevent the Anacreons getting onto the Invictus was sacrifice himself. He had two opportunities for a clean death. Keep his speed up during the spacewalk so he slams into the hull or let the ships guns take him out once they started shooting.

To be fair, for a dying empire, especially, would you expect every line commander to be prepared to sacrifice himself, as opposed to just regarding being a commander as a job?

[bilateralrope]

Fair point.

Though we also saw that fleeing during the spacewalk and escaping to a comms relay was possible. And that relay was pointed out to everyone when they flew past it.

[bilateralrope]

This isn't Foundation. This is 'we wanted to do something Dune but couldn't afford the rights and were afraid we wouldn't get financed without a big name so we put a Foundation sticker on it'

It's telling that instincts, psychic powers, luck, souls, and faith are being more stressed than rational and analytical thinking, planning things out, and doing what you can to avoid conflict. Almost as if they're just using the trappings or Foundation and not the themes of it.

Are you watching season 2 ?

The Prime Radiant, the device with all the psychohistory calculations on it, is getting information from unknown sources and working it into the calculations. It told one of the Seldon holograms that he needed to be at a specific location, so he went there. As a result, the unknown group living there stuck him back into a human body.

Over on Terminus, the Foundation are giving lip service to the idea that individuals don't matter. Even after the vault smote the warden then declared that they needed to find a specific individual.

So far, the Empire seems to be the only faction trying to think through their problems instead of faithfully following instructions coming from something that is only revealing part of its plan.



Though it's far more enjoyable after the Seldon hologram in the vault at the end of S1 made it clear that the writers aren't even trying to adapt the themes of the novels.

[Shroom Man 777]

I actually really enjoyed Foundation S2 and how it played around with Asimov's very sparse books, they handled it better than S1. As always the Lee Pace galactic emperor genetic dynasty stuff (that totally was not in the book) was great (and was the strongest part of S1).

But this time they got really playful with the actual components of the book being translated (whereas it was kind of tepid hero stuff in S1). Not perfect but there were gutsy choices and I think they got more comfortable with how to reconcile Asimov's very stale non-descriptive prose with the necessities of TV, plus bigger budget so we get more than just kung fu scenes in quarries.

Plus the designs are awesome and they're really doing their best to draw from those zany cool classic sci-fi book covers.

[bilateralrope]

Agreed. The series is benefiting from loosely adapting the novels while throwing in things that weren't in them.

When it comes to season 3, what happens with Demerzel is the part I'm most looking forward to.

[Tribble]

Finally decided to get around to watching it and just finished the first season. IMO if you ignore the fact that it has almost nothing to do with the book series it’s pretty good. Plenty of action, actors are great and the visuals are stunning! My favourite part has to be the clone emperors, whom constantly argue with each other over what has to be done. Talk about an identity crisis! Though to be fair I’ll admit that if I were in the same position and met some of my younger selves I’d definitely be doing the same thing.

The pacing is a bit jarring, and my dad kinda struggled to keep up with all the multiple plots being swapped back and forth. I think they could have done better by sticking to 1-2 plots at most per episode.

Does it comes anywhere near the themes and structures of the books? Hell no! I get that books frequently won’t translate well to tv, but it’s clear from the start they weren’t even trying to pretend that they were going for a relatively faithful adaptation. Which is fine cause my dad and don’t pretend like we’re watching Foundation either! We just turn out brains off and call series “Groundwork,” it’s much easier that way

[Alferd Packer]

I am an unrepentant Asimov fan, especially of the Robots-Empire-Foundation epic, and I've always thought that Foundation would require a massive amount of massaging to make a watchable movie/TV series. At its core, the first three books are just people talking about stuff that has happened, is happening, or will happen. Very little actually happens until Foundation's Edge and Foundation and Earth. That said, I have really enjoyed S2 of Foundation thus far--I think it's a lot better than season 1--and I still have two episodes left. I am excited for season 3, even if I remain skeptical that we will actually get it.

In my ideal world, they would've started off adapting the Robot novels, because those are straightforward whodunnits, just in a sci-fi setting. Remove the anachronisms, update the reason for everyone on Earth living underground from "we needed all the arable land we could get" to "the planet's climate collapsed so we were forced to build domes over our cities to survive" and I think it could be great.

[Tribble]

Oh! On that.

All the Imperial Commander had to do to prevent the Anacreons getting onto the Invictus was sacrifice himself. He had two opportunities for a clean death. Keep his speed up during the spacewalk so he slams into the hull or let the ships guns take him out once they started shooting.

To be fair, for a dying empire, especially, would you expect every line commander to be prepared to sacrifice himself, as opposed to just regarding being a commander as a job?

They shouldn’t have even made it close to the airlock. My cell phone is quite good at distinguishing people from other objects today, surely a top of the line warship from the future ought to do better? Even if it’s a few hundred years old?

And why would he / his nanobots be recognized by a 700 year old ship that has had no contact with civilization? Wouldn’t the Invictus have had some kind of database on the active personnel/ nanobot model # that were in use at the time of its service?

My windows laptop is more secure than this thing.

[bilateralrope]

There are several pieces of tech that the Empire restricts. Jump ships that can quickly cross the galaxy, personal auras, etc. Season two has points where they are surprised when people are ignoring those restrictions.

Maybe the nanobots are another of those things and the ship was built under the assumption that the Empire would retain that restriction. Also the ship was designed to remain crewed, so there might have been some defenses that would have worked if there were any crew to activate them.

[Tribble]

There are several pieces of tech that the Empire restricts. Jump ships that can quickly cross the galaxy, personal auras, etc. Season two has points where they are surprised when people are ignoring those restrictions.

Maybe the nanobots are another of those things and the ship was built under the assumption that the Empire would retain that restriction. Also the ship was designed to remain crewed, so there might have been some defenses that would have worked if there were any crew to activate them.

I mean, I suppose you could chalk it up to the Empire’s arrogance? Perhaps the Empire’s military brass never thought that anyone would dare violate their rules and use tech that they’re not supposed to, so they never put in appropriate countermeasures?

Though again, one would think that “these nanobots / serials # do not match those on file, therefore access is denied” wouldn’t be that hard to do. Or having the nanobots temporarily pauses the defences, but then prompts command codes to confirm ID and right to access. And it shouldn’t be that hard to program unidentified humanoid shapes to be targeted regardless of the 2m thing.

Also, why is it in every sci fi show that force field controls are so easily accessible and able to be bypassed? That force field was almost certainly anti-personnel rather than just for environmental protection as it vaporized what was thrown at it. Yet all they had to do was, as usual, find the controls sitting right next to it to turn it off. Yes, yes, one had to be familiar with the tech to do it but still. They didn’t even have nanobot guy that time.

Even with the lack of crew and age, the ship really wouldn’t be granting any kind of access IMO.

[Tribble]

I know, I know, nitpicking lol

[bilateralrope]

There are several pieces of tech that the Empire restricts. Jump ships that can quickly cross the galaxy, personal auras, etc. Season two has points where they are surprised when people are ignoring those restrictions.

Maybe the nanobots are another of those things and the ship was built under the assumption that the Empire would retain that restriction. Also the ship was designed to remain crewed, so there might have been some defenses that would have worked if there were any crew to activate them.

I mean, I suppose you could chalk it up to the Empire’s arrogance? Perhaps the Empire’s military brass never thought that anyone would dare violate their rules and use tech that they’re not supposed to, so they never put in appropriate countermeasures?

Or they thought that the security systems would hold up long enough. It was an impressive ship against the foes Terminus had during the first crisis. Not so much when the Empire sent a fleet of its warships.