Kyle Rittenhouse Found Not Guilty

[Elfdart]

I'm not surprised by the verdict. But the most interesting part of this is looking at US POC communities online, and how many are talking about arming up over this in an organised way, using the arguments in this trial as precedent.

Interesting times ahead.

The last time the "coloreds" armed themselves, the right-wing, pro-gun governor of an open carry state signed one of the most restrictive gun laws in the country, and the FBI conducted a wave of assassinations nationwide. To this day, the mere mention of the Black Panther Party causes many a cracker to wet the bed at night. But you don't need to go back to the days of COINTELPRO to find cases of black people being killed when they broke no gun laws.

For example, the police handed Rittenhouse a water bottle and sent him on his merry way after the crowd told them he had just shot two people -and he was still brandishing the gun. They didn't even stop him to see if his gun had been fired. On the hand, seven years ago today, 12-year-old Tamir Rice was gunned him down like an animal by the police in another open carry state for holding a TOY gun. As usual, the cops were never charged and the city, in an act of some of the purest sadism in recent memory, sent a $500 bill to the kid's family to cover the costs of removing his bullet-riddled corpse.

These proposed black militias are going to have their work cut out for them, because the first time they hinder a white vigilante or a trigger-happy racist cop, the shit's going to hit the fan at the speed of sound.

Oh, and the people who bought Shooter's bullshit self-defense claim must have watched Shane and assumed Jack Wilson was the hero:

[Agent Fisher]

For example, the police handed Rittenhouse a water bottle and sent him on his merry way after the crowd told them he had just shot two people -and he was still brandishing the gun. They didn't even stop him to see if his gun had been fired.

So, respectfully, no, that's not what happened. The water bottle thing was earlier in the night with a bunch of the other armed person who were trying to defend businesses from being burned or looted. He tried to surrender to the cops, they pepper sprayed him to get him back from their vehicle cause there was numerous gunshots still going at the time and the cops didn't bother to find out what this person with his hands up and a rifle hanging on a sling was trying to say to htem, just pepper sprayed at him and told him to go home.


So hate the kid if you want, but at least get the facts about the case right so people don't just dismiss your opinions cause you are talking about things that didn't happen.

[Gandalf]

The last time the "coloreds" armed themselves, the right-wing, pro-gun governor of an open carry state signed one of the most restrictive gun laws in the country, and the FBI conducted a wave of assassinations nationwide. To this day, the mere mention of the Black Panther Party causes many a cracker to wet the bed at night. But you don't need to go back to the days of COINTELPRO to find cases of black people being killed when they broke no gun laws.

For example, the police handed Rittenhouse a water bottle and sent him on his merry way after the crowd told them he had just shot two people -and he was still brandishing the gun. They didn't even stop him to see if his gun had been fired. On the hand, seven years ago today, 12-year-old Tamir Rice was gunned him down like an animal by the police in another open carry state for holding a TOY gun. As usual, the cops were never charged and the city, in an act of some of the purest sadism in recent memory, sent a $500 bill to the kid's family to cover the costs of removing his bullet-riddled corpse.

These proposed black militias are going to have their work cut out for them, because the first time they hinder a white vigilante or a trigger-happy racist cop, the shit's going to hit the fan at the speed of sound.

Oh, and the people who bought Shooter's bullshit self-defense claim must have watched Shane and assumed Jack Wilson was the hero:

Indeed, there's no illusion that it'll be easier, but a lot of people want to at least have a deterrent next time the police decide to start stomping on people like last year.

I'm still bamboozled that the police didn't tell Rittenhouse to leave the moment they saw him running around with a gun offering to help.

[Elfdart]

For example, the police handed Rittenhouse a water bottle and sent him on his merry way after the crowd told them he had just shot two people -and he was still brandishing the gun. They didn't even stop him to see if his gun had been fired.

So, respectfully, no, that's not what happened. The water bottle thing was earlier in the night with a bunch of the other armed person who were trying to defend businesses from being burned or looted. He tried to surrender to the cops, they pepper sprayed him to get him back from their vehicle cause there was numerous gunshots still going at the time and the cops didn't bother to find out what this person with his hands up and a rifle hanging on a sling was trying to say to htem, just pepper sprayed at him and told him to go home.


So hate the kid if you want, but at least get the facts about the case right so people don't just dismiss your opinions cause you are talking about things that didn't happen.

Oh, so they gave him the water and told him to go home before he shot two unarmed men? That's even worse. Nice job of ducking the point about what would have happened to a black person if he had approached a police line with a loaded gun after shots had been fired.

[Agent Fisher]

Oh, so they gave him the water and told him to go home before he shot two unarmed men? That's even worse. Nice job of ducking the point about what would have happened to a black person if he had approached a police line with a loaded gun after shots had been fired.

Didn't see where you raised the point about an armed black person approaching the police line, but considering open carry is legal in Wisconsin, that there were armed whites, blacks, and hispanics that night, and the cops didn't just start spray anyone they saw with a gun wth bullets, I'm not sure what I can say regarding that point.

And again, no, read what I wrote. They gave him water earlier in the night. They told him to go home after pepper spraying him when he was trying to surrender after he shot someone who was charging at him and grabbing his gun, then someone hitting him in the head with a skateboard, and someone pointing a gun at him. By the way, the second and third people were shot after he was already running towards the police line, telling the third person 'I'm going to the police' about twenty seconds before getting attacked.

[Agent Fisher]

Anyway, I'm unlikely to change your opinion on what happened that night, just like you're unlikely to change mine, so I'm just gonna dip out of this thread.

[Broomstick]

I'm still bamboozled that the police didn't tell Rittenhouse to leave the moment they saw him running around with a gun offering to help.

It is legal to openly carry a gun in Wisconsin.

Also, he's white and male. Although as pointed out there were armed people of all skin shades running around that night.

That's really the whole of it.

No, I don't approve either, but I'm not in charge.

[Sidewinder]

In case anyone forgot, two of the men Rittenhouse shot, were convicted felons. Rosenbaum, in particular, was a child molester.

Kyle Rittenhouse’s attorney wants a judge to allow him to argue that one of the men his client fatally shot during a Wisconsin protest was a sex offender, saying it supports a defense theory that he attacked Rittenhouse and intended to take his gun because he couldn’t legally possess one.

Mark Richards maintained in court filings Thursday that Joseph Rosenbaum was convicted of having sex with a minor in Arizona in 2002 and was prohibited from possessing firearms. Rosenbaum started the altercation with Rittenhouse in hopes of making off with his assault-style rifle, which only bolsters Rittenhouse’s self-defense argument, Richards wrote.

[LadyTevar]

In case anyone forgot, two of the men Rittenhouse shot, were convicted felons. Rosenbaum, in particular, was a child molester.

Kyle Rittenhouse’s attorney wants a judge to allow him to argue that one of the men his client fatally shot during a Wisconsin protest was a sex offender, saying it supports a defense theory that he attacked Rittenhouse and intended to take his gun because he couldn’t legally possess one.

Mark Richards maintained in court filings Thursday that Joseph Rosenbaum was convicted of having sex with a minor in Arizona in 2002 and was prohibited from possessing firearms. Rosenbaum started the altercation with Rittenhouse in hopes of making off with his assault-style rifle, which only bolsters Rittenhouse’s self-defense argument, Richards wrote.

And that means they can be gunned down in the street?

[Gandalf]

It is legal to openly carry a gun in Wisconsin.

Also, he's white and male. Although as pointed out there were armed people of all skin shades running around that night.

That's really the whole of it.

No, I don't approve either, but I'm not in charge.

I saw a take on Twitter which pointed out that I can't turn up to a hospital with a scalpel to "help" the doctors.

Nothing says "failed state" like just deputising oneself to play Punisher, and having the actual regime forces just be cool with it.

[Sidewinder]

And that means they can be gunned down in the street?

It means these "victims" were more likely to engage in risky behavior that resulted in them getting injured and/or killed, the way an adrenaline junkie is likely to get himself killed. I, for one, will NOT mourn them as martyrs, the way others have.

Personally, I think Rittenhouse deserves a SECOND DEGREE murder conviction, as he was stupid for trying to serve as an armed guard WITHOUT the necessary qualifications (training, uniform to identify himself as such, written permission from owners of businesses he was protecting, etc.). The prosecution, though, incompetently tried him for FIRST DEGREE murder, which required proving intent that was obviously not there- someone who actually intended to murder another, would've tried hide his identity (wearing a mask, for one), gotten an alibi, NOT surrendered to the police after killing someone, etc.

[Sidewinder]

I saw a take on Twitter which pointed out that I can't turn up to a hospital with a scalpel to "help" the doctors.

Nothing says "failed state" like just deputising oneself to play Punisher, and having the actual regime forces just be cool with it.

We'd have far fewer people trying to play Punisher, if the police DID THEIR DAMN JOBS and stopped the rioters from looting and burning businesses. If I stood outside your home with a Molotov cocktail, and verbally threatened to burn down your home, while the police did nothing to stop me, wouldn't you feel the need to get your own gun to defend your property and your life?

[Rogue 9]

In case anyone forgot, two of the men Rittenhouse shot, were convicted felons. Rosenbaum, in particular, was a child molester.

Kyle Rittenhouse’s attorney wants a judge to allow him to argue that one of the men his client fatally shot during a Wisconsin protest was a sex offender, saying it supports a defense theory that he attacked Rittenhouse and intended to take his gun because he couldn’t legally possess one.

Mark Richards maintained in court filings Thursday that Joseph Rosenbaum was convicted of having sex with a minor in Arizona in 2002 and was prohibited from possessing firearms. Rosenbaum started the altercation with Rittenhouse in hopes of making off with his assault-style rifle, which only bolsters Rittenhouse’s self-defense argument, Richards wrote.

Rittenhouse didn't know that, so it was immaterial to his state of mind at the time of the shooting, and even if he did he wasn't appointed his executioner. (Also in 2002 Rosenbaum was 19.)

[Elfdart]

And that means they can be gunned down in the street?

It means these "victims" were more likely to engage in risky behavior that resulted in them getting injured and/or killed, the way an adrenaline junkie is likely to get himself killed. I, for one, will NOT mourn them as martyrs, the way others have.

Personally, I think Rittenhouse deserves a SECOND DEGREE murder conviction, as he was stupid for trying to serve as an armed guard WITHOUT the necessary qualifications (training, uniform to identify himself as such, written permission from owners of businesses he was protecting, etc.). The prosecution, though, incompetently tried him for FIRST DEGREE murder, which required proving intent that was obviously not there- someone who actually intended to murder another, would've tried hide his identity (wearing a mask, for one), gotten an alibi, NOT surrendered to the police after killing someone, etc.

Here's video of Shooter, just weeks before he shot two unarmed men, ganging up on a 14-year-old girl and attacking her from behind:

LINK

The end of the video is disturbing in retrospect: A couple of bystanders moved in and broke up the "fight" and Shooter ended up on his ass on the pavement. Ring a bell? Apparently, the cowardly little bitch can't hold his own against a girl -even when he has help- and certainly not against another dude. So a few weeks later, he makes up for it by running around with an AR-15, only this time when he ends up on the ground, he has a gun to use on any bystanders who might try to meddle with his phony tough guy act. Two unarmed men are dead and another man wounded because a loser needed help to beat up and girl and still got knocked to the ground.

By your standard, the guy with the pistol would have been justified in blowing Shooter's head off instead of trying get the drop on him, since Shooter also has a track record of violent acts. This is lunacy.

A much more sensible solution is to apply the same restrictions on union picket lines to any other rally (as well as counter-demonstrators): Possessing a firearm or any other deadly weapon in such public demonstrations is a crime in and of itself. Besides, a protest with weapons is a putsch.

[Rogue 9]

Under Wisconsin law Grosskreutz absolutely would have been justified in blowing Rittenhouse's head off; he could have used the same self-defense plea and more plausibly so since Rittenhouse had just shot someone to death in front of him. That's the problem with this; a self-defense statute with no duty to retreat just leaves whoever's left standing after a confrontation like this essentially automatically in the right.

[loomer]

I saw a take on Twitter which pointed out that I can't turn up to a hospital with a scalpel to "help" the doctors.

Nothing says "failed state" like just deputising oneself to play Punisher, and having the actual regime forces just be cool with it.

We'd have far fewer people trying to play Punisher, if the police DID THEIR DAMN JOBS and stopped the rioters from looting and burning businesses. If I stood outside your home with a Molotov cocktail, and verbally threatened to burn down your home, while the police did nothing to stop me, wouldn't you feel the need to get your own gun to defend your property and your life?

You'd also have a lot less if people did their damn jobs and stopped murdering people. Funny how that works, eh?

[Ralin]

You'd also have a lot less if people did their damn jobs and stopped murdering people. Funny how that works, eh?

How much does not murdering people pay? Does it come with health insurance?

[LaCroix]

Personally, I think Rittenhouse deserves a SECOND DEGREE murder conviction, as he was stupid for trying to serve as an armed guard WITHOUT the necessary qualifications (training, uniform to identify himself as such, written permission from owners of businesses he was protecting, etc.). The prosecution, though, incompetently tried him for FIRST DEGREE murder, which required proving intent that was obviously not there- someone who actually intended to murder another, would've tried hide his identity (wearing a mask, for one), gotten an alibi, NOT surrendered to the police after killing someone, etc.

I forgot that your legal system is the only one where you have to pick the charges before and are not allowed to change then to more appropriate ones during trial. So he even though most likely being guilty of second degree murder, but because the prosecutor chose poorly, he is now getting off. What a farce...

[Marko Dash]

Under Wisconsin law Grosskreutz absolutely would have been justified in blowing Rittenhouse's head off; he could have used the same self-defense plea and more plausibly so since Rittenhouse had just shot someone to death in front of him. That's the problem with this; a self-defense statute with no duty to retreat just leaves whoever's left standing after a confrontation like this essentially automatically in the right.

Not after chasing him down he wouldn't, especially as his own recording show him talking with Kyle just before that where Kyle said he was going to the police.

[Coop D'etat]

Personally, I think Rittenhouse deserves a SECOND DEGREE murder conviction, as he was stupid for trying to serve as an armed guard WITHOUT the necessary qualifications (training, uniform to identify himself as such, written permission from owners of businesses he was protecting, etc.). The prosecution, though, incompetently tried him for FIRST DEGREE murder, which required proving intent that was obviously not there- someone who actually intended to murder another, would've tried hide his identity (wearing a mask, for one), gotten an alibi, NOT surrendered to the police after killing someone, etc.

I forgot that your legal system is the only one where you have to pick the charges before and are not allowed to change then to more appropriate ones during trial. So he even though most likely being guilty of second degree murder, but because the prosecutor chose poorly, he is now getting off. What a farce...

They included the lesser offenses in Rittenhouse, so what Sidewinder is saying is just plain wrong.

What happens is that if you find that the prosecution has not disproven self-defence then the jury isn't supposed to look at lesser offenses, because if a use of force is not proven to be not self defense its prima facie not criminal under the statute.

[Sidewinder]

I saw a take on Twitter which pointed out that I can't turn up to a hospital with a scalpel to "help" the doctors.

Nothing says "failed state" like just deputising oneself to play Punisher, and having the actual regime forces just be cool with it.

We'd have far fewer people trying to play Punisher, if the police DID THEIR DAMN JOBS and stopped the rioters from looting and burning businesses. If I stood outside your home with a Molotov cocktail, and verbally threatened to burn down your home, while the police did nothing to stop me, wouldn't you feel the need to get your own gun to defend your property and your life?

You'd also have a lot less if people did their damn jobs and stopped murdering people. Funny how that works, eh?

You think I'll disagree with you? I'm Asian-American. I suffered at the hands of REAL racists when growing up, all while the school officials stood by and did nothing as I suffered REAL physical injuries. I would've supported the BLM protesters if they hadn't lost their self-control and began rioting, looting and burning private property, and murdering those trying to stop the violence- remember David Dorn, the retired BLACK police officer whom looters killed for trying to stop them?

[loomer]

We'd have far fewer people trying to play Punisher, if the police DID THEIR DAMN JOBS and stopped the rioters from looting and burning businesses. If I stood outside your home with a Molotov cocktail, and verbally threatened to burn down your home, while the police did nothing to stop me, wouldn't you feel the need to get your own gun to defend your property and your life?

You'd also have a lot less if people did their damn jobs and stopped murdering people. Funny how that works, eh?

You think I'll disagree with you? I'm Asian-American. I suffered at the hands of REAL racists when growing up, all while the school officials stood by and did nothing as I suffered REAL physical injuries. I would've supported the BLM protesters if they hadn't lost their self-control and began rioting, looting and burning private property, and murdering those trying to stop the violence- remember David Dorn, the retired BLACK police officer whom looters killed for trying to stop them?

Yeah, I have no sympathy for the 'oh no the protests had a bit of looting, the whole thing is now invalid' line. Shockingly, you can - if you feel a need to condemn riots - still agree that the protests themselves deserve support, and recognize that the root cause of the riot is the more serious issue.

You'd also have a lot less if people did their damn jobs and stopped murdering people. Funny how that works, eh?

How much does not murdering people pay? Does it come with health insurance?

Well, it pays whatever you were already getting paid, since 'murdering people' falls outside the job description of, oh, every legitimate occupation out there.

[Broomstick]

Yeah, I have no sympathy for the 'oh no the protests had a bit of looting, the whole thing is now invalid' line. Shockingly, you can - if you feel a need to condemn riots - still agree that the protests themselves deserve support, and recognize that the root cause of the riot is the more serious issue.

I just want to say I absolutely and completely agree with the above.