Final Fantasy XIV

[TheFeniX]

My main is DRG, and it's not "mushy" at all at lvl 84. I've got my single-combat attacks and jumps on the right hotbar, the special attacks and multi-target attacks on the left hotbar. I can cycle through my base attacks, trigger a jump, and then hit all the specials those attacks unlock with ease. Maybe you just need to reconfig your bars?

DRG has 2 4 string combos (with a teeter-totter for some reason). So you've got 7 buttons tied up, just to do a basic damage rotation. For comparison, SAM is a mostly GCD based class, nearly impossible to clip anything, and it only has 6 buttons in this vein.

Hi Jump leads into Mirage dive, which likely exists as two buttons solely because you want Hi Jump CD rolling, even if you have to sit on your Mirage Dive oGCD, because Two Hi Jumps lead to Life of the Dragon.

For a burst window, you've got 3 CDs: Lance Charge, , Littany, and Dragon Sight? (DRG lasers). If this was the WoW engine, that would be no problem since off-globals in that engine are true off-globals. And when you finally line it up, you need to fire Nastrod ASAP after Gerikskimnotspellingthis in order to get a 3rd off within the time window.

Lining all that up with your 2 other Jumps for maximum damage makes it a clipping mess of a class. This ignores how it's usually better to sit on a Spineshatter Dive (a 250 potency attack) because there may be a mechanic you need to get a move on.

Can I play DRG effectively? Yes
Is it fun? No. Not when RPR and SAM exist. Def not when RDM exists when it's extremely fun to play, brings more raid utility, and easily keeps up in damage. Even in casual content, RDM's ability to murder mass trash pulls would make up for any single-target issues.

DRG missed some QoL changes other classes received. PLD used to have a REALLY tight window to get off 4 Holy Spirits, THEN a confitier. Sitting on a global for even 3 seconds would lose you this window. Now, the "buff" is up for about 30 seconds, and you have 5 charges to use within that time frame. DRG needs a rework. It's not FUNCTIONALLY broken, but when other classes GET QoL updates, the ones that are left behind languish.

NOTE: I WANTED to like DRG, it was my first DPS to 90. I've wanted it to be good since I raided with it back in ARR. But it has consistently had issues the dev team is incredibly slow to handle. And hilariously, these issues STARTED in the "DRG expac:" Heavenward. In Ravana EX, it was excruciating to have him jump, knowing Blood of the Dragon was going to fall off and your DPS was going to be a dumpster fire for 60 seconds. Not to mention the point back when having Blood for Blood up during certain raid-wides would literally just kill you.

Never ONCE connected the dots on why Zodiark needed to be alive.

I still haven't. If he truly "weaved our laws anew" as Hades said in Amarout, then why is he still needed? And why hadn't Elidibus (as the heart) had even a basic understanding of what Zods was accomplishing after.... 12,000? years? Out of all the primals: Why are HIS effects the only ones that are not permanent? OR, more to the point, why did none of the Ascians even attempt to understand what lead to the End of Days?

Just wonder how that's going to affect our friends on First

When you get farther in the story, there is more to discuss.

[Mr Bean]

Never ONCE connected the dots on why Zodiark needed to be alive.

I still haven't. If he truly "weaved our laws anew" as Hades said in Amarout, then why is he still needed? And why hadn't Elidibus (as the heart) had even a basic understanding of what Zods was accomplishing after.... 12,000? years? Out of all the primals: Why are HIS effects the only ones that are not permanent? OR, more to the point, why did none of the Ascians even attempt to understand what lead to the End of Days?

So what Zodiark was doing was active not passive. Even sundered he was still doing his Zodiak things and keeping the thing he had been summoned to do from happening.

[Mr Bean]

Since it won't accept my spoiler tag post part 2! Spoiler

As explained by Venat before she became big H she locked away his movement and his actions but left free his rules. Know how every Primal has some special super power? Titan can cause earthquakes but he can't travel back in time like Alexander can. In Zodiak case he was set up with idea he could re-write the rules of the star in his case if you do the Studium fisher quests you get a direct insight on this as all of the ocean currents and wind patterns start changing post Zodiak death. He took Aether in the star and made it move faster and more evenly across the whole star. The end of days manifested in areas of poor aether flow. By the fish quests we see the used to be normal on this Star, as in some days you would open your door and there's plenty of aether flowing around and other days it would slow to a trickle in the background. If we use an analogy pretend the end of days was spontaneous combustion and what Zodiak did was ensure it was always lightly sprinkling rain most of the day to prevent any fires from having easy ignition sources. The instant he died we go back to sunny days and rainy days again, except instead of rain it's aether.

[TheFeniX]

I just feel that:
Zodiark fully sundered: null sweat.
Zodiark after 7 rejoinings: null sweat
Zodiark after we get done "talking" to him: PANIC JERKS

Hydelean is more than capable of shifting Aether around. I will not going into more until spoiler tags are no longer an issue.

Actually, a piece of older lore I wanted to go into since I hope I can assume everyone has completed ShB is the circumstances concerning the end of days and the sundered.

So, Hades mentions after the summoning of Zodiark, "half-men" races started cropping up. And a huge matter of contention, which was part of what lead to the creation of Hydalean, was the desire to use these "impure souls" as sacrifices to bring back those killed to summon Zodiark. But what races comprised these half-men? Were they regular spoken, Human, etc? What happened when Hydelean swung her hammer and sundered the world. Some have assume it's the non-playable races, Beast Races, etc. However, if I recall my lore, the Miqo'te were essentially a beast race uplifted as slaves by the Allagans. Now, it may just be a gameplay contrivance, but am I to assume the playable races are all Sundered and the rest are just "what appeared" after summoning Zodiark?

Or is this like some weird creation myth like what I pointed out years ago: without other humans, based on Christian lore, a WHOLE lot of incest had to have happened. Some nutter told me "there were other humans running around, but they didn't have a soul." However dumb that interpretation is, is it just "luck" The WoL is a sundered? Are not all humans sundered and some are just original souls created after summoning Zodiark? That question asked: are ALL the souls of the other shards sundered and that's how they were populated?

Anywho, I've been chewing on that. Side Quest content this expac has been considerably weak, with a few standout gems that almost make up for it. Stormblood was much better by comparison. We got major information on how the Seekers of the Sun function as a society and a ton of information on how different groups survived (or didn't) under imperial occupation. Most of EW sidequesting is "how does this magitek function" which, by nature of it being fuckin' MAGIC, is not rewarding to me. I don't care how aether aethers the aethering to do aether things. I want to know HOW having access to this technology has IMPACTED people. For example, the machina the First had for mining and all that jazz and then the loss of them and the knowledge to repair them, and how it impacted what mining the survivors can do. That kind of stuff.

Role Quests are... there. Some pretty decent parts, some REALLY boring parts. All in all, you DO get some closure on a couple parts. Spoiler

Rhaubaun realizing that Ul'dah is no longer his city, The Sultana is no longer his ward, he's of Ala-mhigo. That's who is is now. The WoL represents Ul'dah more than he does now. And he has to come completely to terms with this. Best role quest because the second the big bad shows up? Raubhan just fuckin' shotgun kicks it back like 20 feet to save M'Naago.

Oh yea, putting Fordola in charge of fighting in Ala'Mhigo. TERRIBLE idea. She's on the hook for a LOT of destroyed lives. You want to give her a second chance: station her LITERALLY anywhere else, where she won't either illicit feelings of horror or rage from the populace. Also, STILL salty about my boy Arenvald.

Then like.... an old lady pulls a knife on Hein..... who is a world-class SAM, who are canonically faster than the eye. This woman is then BTFO by Yugiri....a NIN of stupid power and speed. And rather than disarming her, she just fuckin' ENDs this old lady.... all, I feel, so we can have the BIG FIGHT. A storyline saved, LITERALLY, by a certain character showing up right after I'm yelling "SURE WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE A HEALER IN THIS FUCKIN' FIGHT" and being like "IMMA HEALER NAO, I WILL HEAL YOU!" The hilarity writes itself.

Ishgard is more stupid Church vs State bullshit with a side of Aymeric eye-fuckin' the WoL the entire time.

Gridania stuff: The Elementals are still dicks who can kiss my grits and I still want to cuddle with Kan-E-Senna: news at 11.

Limsa Stuff: Woman with daddy issues solve problems with gunfire. I don't even know where to rate this one. It's just kind of there.

[TheFeniX]

More nerd shit, cuz this has also been gnawing at me at no one will nerd it out with me: how does the "outside" view Hydaelyn? NOTE: I'm using the pre-endwalker name of the Planet. We know Dragons and Omega are aliens. Midgarsomr brought his clutch from another planet and Hydaelyn agreed to let them settle here. This is why IIRC, we don't see any Dragons on the first.

So, if this was like some Star Trek shit, is the Source the only planet to "exist" in reality? I seriously doubt even Hydaelyn had the power to create multiple ENTIRE universes. What happens if/when the other shards decide to commit to space travel? Is there some kind of barrier? Would they just "loop" back and end up back at Hydaelyn (planet)? Would they hit a barrier and die? End up in the Source universe?

In Metroid Prime 2, um.... the planet whatever it's name was, from the outside look like something in "flux" (to use Star Trek technobable). Even though the planet is shifting from different realities, it still exists as a single entity from the outside. It's not until you land and hit one of the "tears" that you can end up on the other side of the mirror. Are the shards completely locked into their own reality? Is it within ours/there's best interests to try and find a way to move the people to the Source? What kind of Aether imbalance would this create? Is it possible to perform non-violent rejoinings? Would THAT be in the best interests of Hydaelyn?

Thing is, there doesn't seem to be a major DOWNside to sundered being in the same reality with each other. Ardbert came to the Source looking for a fight, and we whooped his ass. The only real difference seems to be, like The Source WoL: he can handle stupid large amounts of light-aspected Aether. But it's not like the concept of him existing on The Source lead to any real issues.

These are questions likely never to be answered.

[Mr Bean]

So to answer something else Zodiark had Elidibus as it's heart. Identical to Venat being Hydaelyn heart. However Elidibus pulled a projecting putting himself outside of Zodiark and ran around until 5.3. After that Zodiark was brainless on the moon. As covered by our good friend the Moon Watcher (who lives on the moon) Emet or Lahabread could have let Zodiark out at any time they wanted to by traveling to the moon (Something we see them do) and smashing up the place but they never tried. Why? Because only a complete Zodiark is useful for their purposes

So, if this was like some Star Trek shit, is the Source the only planet to "exist" in reality? I seriously doubt even Hydaelyn had the power to create multiple ENTIRE universes. What happens if/when the other shards decide to commit to space travel? Is there some kind of barrier? Would they just "loop" back and end up back at Hydaelyn (planet)? Would they hit a barrier and die? End up in the Source universe?

Best guess? If you fly in from space towards the planet the Source is the only thing you see and the only thing you land on. The First and all the remaining shards have the same night sky view but likely they are bubble worlds so go to far and you hit map edge and loop around.

Imagine the source as a nice planet floating in the void and just off it it's reality is a half dozen soap bubbles of existence lightly brushing the Source.

[LadyTevar]

I did the Moon quests. I think we all needed that 'break' with the Moonrabbits before things shifted to "DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM" in Thavnair.

Still don't like Alphinaud and Alisaie's dad. Fully expecting him to be a thorn in my side. Trying NOT to read the spoilers y'all have posted.

[Lord Revan]

Yeah I think the threat and doom of the End days would have not hit anywhere close to as hard if there was wall to wall action and drama as some suggestions I've read have been. You kind of need those breaks for the big scenes to feel big.

One (but certainly not only) issues WoW story telling had was that it was all "big scenes" and no real time to gather your breath, so those big scenes lost all sense of perspective.

[LadyTevar]

Yeah I think the threat and doom of the End days would have not hit anywhere close to as hard if there was wall to wall action and drama as some suggestions I've read have been. You kind of need those breaks for the big scenes to feel big.

One (but certainly not only) issues WoW story telling had was that it was all "big scenes" and no real time to gather your breath, so those big scenes lost all sense of perspective.

FFXIV was good about building drama and breaks from the start. My brother has ran multiple alts through ARR -- and he still forgets what happens after the big rush of beating Titan. The Gutpunch of walking into Standing Stones is still there, even after running one Alt of each (female*) race through it.
They've learned very well how to ride the waves of highs and lows, and how to play the emotions. Hell, they made me like Emet Selch, the bastards.



* Yes, all female, because he'd rather watch female butts running around the screen. In the skimpiest outfit he can find. I'm still wondering WHERE he found all these skimpy outfits.

[Steve]

Yeah I think the threat and doom of the End days would have not hit anywhere close to as hard if there was wall to wall action and drama as some suggestions I've read have been. You kind of need those breaks for the big scenes to feel big.

One (but certainly not only) issues WoW story telling had was that it was all "big scenes" and no real time to gather your breath, so those big scenes lost all sense of perspective.

FFXIV was good about building drama and breaks from the start. My brother has ran multiple alts through ARR -- and he still forgets what happens after the big rush of beating Titan. The Gutpunch of walking into Standing Stones is still there, even after running one Alt of each (female*) race through it.
They've learned very well how to ride the waves of highs and lows, and how to play the emotions. Hell, they made me like Emet Selch, the bastards.



* Yes, all female, because he'd rather watch female butts running around the screen. In the skimpiest outfit he can find. I'm still wondering WHERE he found all these skimpy outfits.

Various glamours, the summer event swimsuits, etc. Also the Coliseum set from Dzaemel Darkhold.

[TheFeniX]

While some of it drags on way to long, FFXIV is good about giving related filler to allow impacts to the player to land. The problem is if you're pounding something like the slog of end-ARR, it's easy to stop caring because it IS a slog.

Coliseum set is smalltime. Gotta get the Light Steel, the straps are dyable. Glamour is the true FFXIV endgame, Housing is Savage. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't actually play the game. I just blew over a million on that "Biker Leather" getup cuz I needed some Biker Bunny Glam for GNB as my PLD one is pretty much complete after getting a dyable version of the level 80 PLD chest. I could also drop cash monies on the Cloud Bike, buuuuuut I'm not that hardcore about it. However, Memoria EX groups these days think you can just bully it and it's become enraging to get clears so I can get the SAM chest. At least we got Rheco a clear, but man was it annoying. Also, the timings on that fight are..... awkward.

If I could deal with alts in this game, I could go back to playing a brick-faced Highlander. But Dear GOD leveling through ARR again makes me tired just thinking about it. My two mains in WoW were male Dranaei and Male Human, with assorted other race/gender combos comprising the other alts I messed around on, same with SWTOR. But as it stands in FFXIV, I'm fine with my BunGirl. But having multiple skimpy glammed females...... I mean, to each their own. Hell, I can't judge, I just put together a RDM set comprised of Quitana Ravel legs, but with the Pag'lathian chest as kind of a Savage Mage getup to contrast my High House Bustle "Lady Mage" RDM glam.

The Pagl Chest shows off tons of middrift, and I love it. Just wish it was dyable: Spoiler

[TheFeniX]

Got me ranting about Endgame and I forgot what I was going to rant about: Rheco was telling me PLD is basically DOA for savage because it doesn't do enough damage...... see, when people start talking about raiding in FFXIV vs WoW, I say (provided it hasn't gone straight to trash after Pandas), FFXIV raiding is kid's stuff compared to WoW in a lot of areas. I mean, there's obvious a lot of bads, but if people are blaming a 5% damage difference between TANKS for not getting the clear, I just don't even know what to say. It still (sort of) amazes me how people defend this mechanical design. And that's really neither here no there, it's the fact that FFXIV is still near 100% reliant on hard enrages. That's the most basic raid design mechanic that exists. We used to bash on SWTOR all the time on the forums because "Hard Enrage: the game." I think the concept of the soft enrage basically died with the Trash Compactor boss and strat that came out of it and this is because the game is designed from the ground up to be abusable without enrages.

But supposed "hard core raiders" routinely ignore that FFXIV mechanical design is so childish, rote mem and hard enrages are basically the only option on the table. Say what you will about WoW raiders, and boy were they some of the worst people, those nerds could do numbers, they could analyze mechanics. There's pretty much none of that WRT Savage in FFXIV: for better or worse. I personally don't mind, but it's like being used to playing Spades and some kids are like "GO FISH IS JUST AS COMPLICATED!" I'll stick with muh EXs, thank you.

The good news is that Rheco has stopped asking me when we're going to jump into a few Savage groups because he knows I PLD..... even though I farm on GNB cuz better damage and mitigation (also, it's pretty fun to play). Thanks YoshiP.

[LadyTevar]

Got me ranting about Endgame and I forgot what I was going to rant about: Rheco was telling me PLD is basically DOA for savage because it doesn't do enough damage......

Did someone miss the fact that TANK is not the one who should be doing the damage? That's why there's always 2-4 DPS in every party -- THEY do the damage. Tank does enough damage to keep the Aggro on them.
I've heard some people think HEALERS should be helping with Damage. Yeah, ok, stay out of the ICK long enough that you're not dying, and I will, but that's not what a Healer is really there for (Unless its' Sage).

I haven't played WoW in so long, I forget how they programmed boss mechanics. FFXIV boss mechanics can be simplified and grouped into "Go to one side of the screen", "Get far away", "Get Close", "Group Together", and "Kill the Adds before Boss Powers Up."

[TheFeniX]

Did someone miss the fact that TANK is not the one who should be doing the damage?

Yea, the dev team. Tanks in FFXIV do about 50-60% the damage of a DPS, but since they have nothing better to do, that's fine, whatever, right? Healers do 30-40% the damage as a DPS which is mostly due to them being just Green DPS. The difference is that almost ALL "fluid" (non-rote) mechanics have to be handled by healers what with the bosses positioning themselves for the tanks non-stop. It's even in the new EXs, however I will use Memoria Miseria as an example: as the healer, I have to figure out where I can get my light party to stack safely, all while spamming damage and keeping dumbshit DPS alive, all so they can be like "WTF, why your damage so low WHM?" which is because I've been scraping their worthless hides off the floor non-stop.

That's why there's always 2-4 DPS in every party -- THEY do the damage. Tank does enough damage to keep the Aggro on them.
I've heard some people think HEALERS should be helping with Damage. Yeah, ok, stay out of the ICK long enough that you're not dying, and I will, but that's not what a Healer is really there for (Unless its' Sage).

"Nah bro, this isn't WoW! HEALER GOTTA DO DEEPS. WHAT ARE YOU BAD!?" Look, I spam the absolute FUCK out of Glare cuz I have always subscribed to ABC (Always Be Casting) and mana management in this game is a joke. Literally, if all you did was heal, what with all the abilities (that cost 0 mana, versus Spells) that heal? You'd be sitting on 100% mana at all times. FFXIV is so mechanically broken that the only thing that can pressure healer mana is:
A. Spamming too much Glare
B. Constantly having to Raise (you won't make enrage anyways).
C. DPS being so bad and taking so much damage that you're forced out of everything and down to spamming your mana-murdering heals such as Medica II or (and this is where it gets real bad) Cure2.

THAT said, if your fight design has literally 80% (EIGHTY PERCENT, not hyperbole, I've talked with Savage raider and I've seen logs) of casts in raid content for healers as their damage ability (Glare, Broil, etc), you're fuckin' BAD at fight design.

I haven't played WoW in so long, I forget how they programmed boss mechanics. FFXIV boss mechanics can be simplified and grouped into "Go to one side of the screen", "Get far away", "Get Close", "Group Together", and "Kill the Adds before Boss Powers Up."

Everything. Literally everything. Break off a tank, healer, and 2-3 DPS to assault towers while the main tank just does ONE HUGE add fight? THEN leaving a DPS up top with a bit of self-sustain to launch both spears to drag the ACTUAL boss down while they setup to do the same at the second tower? And then the ACTUAL boss fight is a super-stressful 60 (SIXTY) seconds of "oh shit, I got the line shot, I gotta RUUUUUN to the back" while the tanks are madly swapping aggro and then it's all over, either the boss is dead or you are, and you're like "WTF just happened?"

And the SoO Shamans fight. Just google a video. Holy SHIT tanking that fight was pod racing. That ONE fight literally BTFO pretty much every FFXIV fight EVER made, right there. Sure, FFXIV is the KING of cinematic boss fights (5:35 is one of my fav moments in GAMING, period), but it's fuckin' small time raiding. WoW raids are also "special" in that the first wing is usually VERY accessible to to anyone except the most brain dead players. It's mechanically about the level as Expert Dungeons and has easy DPS checks. It's later tiers where it gets "bring your a-game." This concept dates back to even WotLK what with the whole 7/12 heroes deal. The 7th boss was Prof Putricide: bring your Sunday Best, or you're dead. However, it was easy to pug the first 6 bosses of ICC.

WoW, at one point or another, literally just did... "things" with raids. There was no mechanic they wouldn't try. Mostly because the raid design team was awesome. But also because the game setup to ALLOW these types of mechanics. I shit you not, there were TRASH pulls in WoW raids and some Heroic dungeons that required more prep than some FFXIV fights. Man.... I fuckin' MISS when WoW was good.

EVERY fuckin' FFXIV raid fight is:
A. You're in an arena.
B. The Edges of said arena do some kind of bad thing to you.
C. There's a big motherfucker in that Arena you need to punch.
D. You're actually in a dungeon and the edge of the Arena MAY or MAY no murder you in some way.
E. You're going to be beating on this fucker for 15 minutes, because YoshiP LOOOOOVES draggin' shit out.

Meanwhile, Savage FFXIV raiders are such crybabies, they constantly moan about any "casuals" getting ANY kind of access to "Muh 1337 gears." NOTE: The FFXIV community is probably the least toxic (aside from Warframe) out there. However, their Savage shitters manage to somehow be more annoying than WoW raiders.

[LadyTevar]

Meanwhile, Savage FFXIV raiders are such crybabies, they constantly moan about any "casuals" getting ANY kind of access to "Muh 1337 gears." NOTE: The FFXIV community is probably the least toxic (aside from Warframe) out there. However, their Savage shitters manage to somehow be more annoying than WoW raiders.

First -- I've not heard that kind of moaning from any FF players myself, so I can't say anything about it. As you said, FFXIV is the least toxic I've ever seen in any other MMORPG I've played in (Everquest, SWTOR, WoW).
I am also playing on Faerie, the LBGT+ friendly world, which might have something to do with it. LBGT+ players are more likely to say "Hey, I like your outfit! Here, have a token of appreciation." They're often Dramatic, and fill a Raid Chat will silliness, but they're rarely toxic. My experience with Asshole Gamers they're also incel homophobics. Those don't stay long when every player within range gangs up on you the first time you use a anti-gay/anti-trans slur in open chat.

[Lord Revan]

My FC does Savage runs and one the first questions I asked before joining was "how are you about LGBTQ+ people" (maybe not phrased that way but essentially that) and said FC (despite the rather edgy name) is rather chill and friendly.

I've not encountered the WoW style "if you don't match my unrealistic standards for other players you're a bad player and *insert homophobic and possibly sexist slur here*". Honestly the FF14 community as a whole seems to be against the toxic elitism that plagued WoW.

My chief complaint in 8 man (or alliance) content is people (typically DPS but I've seen healers do it as well) insisting on standing next to the tank 24/7, not only not getting positionals or wasting time running thru the boss for the rear ones, but also standing in the danger zone for the Tank Buster. I had wipe on Tsukuyomi because both healers and loads of DPS opted to stand in "Torment unto Death" (a cleave Tank Buster that takes about 30-50% of the tank's health based on how much mitigation the tank is using and obviously this is without barriers or immunities) and obviously got 1 shotted and do note this is not only announced by the boss screaming "Worm!" in the voice lines but also it has rather long cast time (it tracks the MT but only the main tank).

[LadyTevar]

My chief complaint in 8 man (or alliance) content is people (typically DPS but I've seen healers do it as well) insisting on standing next to the tank 24/7, not only not getting positionals or wasting time running thru the boss for the rear ones, but also standing in the danger zone for the Tank Buster. I had wipe on Tsukuyomi because both healers and loads of DPS opted to stand in "Torment unto Death" (a cleave Tank Buster that takes about 30-50% of the tank's health based on how much mitigation the tank is using and obviously this is without barriers or immunities) and obviously got 1 shotted and do note this is not only announced by the boss screaming "Worm!" in the voice lines but also it has rather long cast time (it tracks the MT but only the main tank).

Some Healers think they need to be close to 'see' the Tank. I'm guessing they've not figured out how to use the party list to cast their spells. DPS should be flanking or back-stabbing, but some bosses move so much it's hard to get positioned. The Bosses that are on/off the edge like Midgarsomr at the Lake you don't have a "flank".

I myself as a DPS has missed "the Ick" signal and not moved, because I was too focused on getting that combo. Last few trials/raids, there's been a Healer who was nice enough to Rescue me over to where they were standing safe. Other times, I'm running out of the Ick but I'm not fast enough -- Ooops I'm dead. It happens, and I know it pisses off the Healers. I'm really bad about it when it's a First Run.

Now, that said, I don't fight Savage. I have been fighting Extreme because of the Mounts. Myself and 3 of my FC now have ALL the Horse-like mounts, including Kirin. We're going after the Birds next. Get the most active of us online, we're a Light Party with Lvl 80+ members. We can run an Extreme un-synched until everyone gets the whistle/horn. (We were beating one of the primals in 35secs)

[Lord Revan]

My chief complaint in 8 man (or alliance) content is people (typically DPS but I've seen healers do it as well) insisting on standing next to the tank 24/7, not only not getting positionals or wasting time running thru the boss for the rear ones, but also standing in the danger zone for the Tank Buster. I had wipe on Tsukuyomi because both healers and loads of DPS opted to stand in "Torment unto Death" (a cleave Tank Buster that takes about 30-50% of the tank's health based on how much mitigation the tank is using and obviously this is without barriers or immunities) and obviously got 1 shotted and do note this is not only announced by the boss screaming "Worm!" in the voice lines but also it has rather long cast time (it tracks the MT but only the main tank).

Some Healers think they need to be close to 'see' the Tank. I'm guessing they've not figured out how to use the party list to cast their spells. DPS should be flanking or back-stabbing, but some bosses move so much it's hard to get positioned. The Bosses that are on/off the edge like Midgarsomr at the Lake you don't have a "flank".

I myself as a DPS has missed "the Ick" signal and not moved, because I was too focused on getting that combo. Last few trials/raids, there's been a Healer who was nice enough to Rescue me over to where they were standing safe. Other times, I'm running out of the Ick but I'm not fast enough -- Ooops I'm dead. It happens, and I know it pisses off the Healers. I'm really bad about it when it's a First Run.

Now, that said, I don't fight Savage. I have been fighting Extreme because of the Mounts. Myself and 3 of my FC now have ALL the Horse-like mounts, including Kirin. We're going after the Birds next. Get the most active of us online, we're a Light Party with Lvl 80+ members. We can run an Extreme un-synched until everyone gets the whistle/horn. (We were beating one of the primals in 35secs)

I'm Red Mage main, I'm familiar with all of this, what I mean as DPSers or Healer that go out of their way to be next to the tank (be it me or someone else), after all there's a world of difference between "oops I was too slow to move from an attack I didn't realize was coming" and "I stand in the area I know could get hit by a Tank Buster because I think it makes me look cool or something".

Bosses that don't have flanks or rear tend to not have Tank Busters that are AoE either (though just to be sure you'd want to stay clear of the tank anyway as some do have small AoEs focused on the tank as Tank Busters so if you stand too close you can still get hit).

Essentially there's a difference between making mistakes and intentionally doing something the tank explicitly told you not to do or intentionally doing things the game goes out of its way to tell is a bad idea.

[TheFeniX]

First -- I've not heard that kind of moaning from any FF players myself, so I can't say anything about it. As you said, FFXIV is the least toxic I've ever seen in any other MMORPG I've played in (Everquest, SWTOR, WoW).
I am also playing on Faerie, the LBGT+ friendly world, which might have something to do with it. LBGT+ players are more likely to say "Hey, I like your outfit! Here, have a token of appreciation." They're often Dramatic, and fill a Raid Chat will silliness, but they're rarely toxic. My experience with Asshole Gamers they're also incel homophobics. Those don't stay long when every player within range gangs up on you the first time you use a anti-gay/anti-trans slur in open chat.

This is mostly Reddit and Discord shenans. FFXIV players generally keep this shit out of the public eye because the vast majority of the playerbase isn't assholes and the GMs will actually action. Pretty sure even way back in T5 I got a guy banned for combo parse shaming me and calling me the f-word. NOTE: In WoW, I would have just laughed it off. But in FFXIV, it was such a rare thing, I ended up submitting a ticket.

I've not encountered the WoW style "if you don't match my unrealistic standards for other players you're a bad player and *insert homophobic and possibly sexist slur here*". Honestly the FF14 community as a whole seems to be against the toxic elitism that plagued WoW.

Every community has these. Hell, in Warframe Arbitration, another Nekros (MR30) said "Fenix, why do you have so much HP? You really need to work on your build, it's shit. You don't know how to play Nekros." Meanwhile, he died 3 times, and I never went down once. It's a running joke in our group, no matter the game, of "Fenix and his shit Nekros build." Thing is, even in FFXIV, there was a time I bothered with Savage content. Just because these people were LESS toxic than WoW raiders, doesn't mean they don't tolerate a level of it way above the general community. This is why I stick to EXs. Oh, speaking of Savage, finally did get around to beating up Angry Clown Savage and got tiny mount.

My chief complaint in 8 man (or alliance) content is people (typically DPS but I've seen healers do it as well) insisting on standing next to the tank 24/7, not only not getting positionals or wasting time running thru the boss for the rear ones, but also standing in the danger zone for the Tank Buster. I had wipe on Tsukuyomi because both healers and loads of DPS opted to stand in "Torment unto Death" (a cleave Tank Buster that takes about 30-50% of the tank's health based on how much mitigation the tank is using and obviously this is without barriers or immunities) and obviously got 1 shotted and do note this is not only announced by the boss screaming "Worm!" in the voice lines but also it has rather long cast time (it tracks the MT but only the main tank).

Technically, that's a frontal cone. FFXIV actually has very few cleaves. The only way to get cracked by one is to meet the requirements (usually aggro based) for it. A "pure" cleave mechanic would only be capable of killing the number of players targeted, a Conal can kill as many as were hit by it. But to also be clear, I routinely use the term "get cleaved" when some other player gets wreck by a buster, such as on Ramuh EX. My rant aside, Alte Roite has a "true" cleave (twinbolt) that is based on position to the main tank (so the OT wants to stand closest to the MT). This is versus the Cleave Auto (which is also a line shot) in Diamond Weapon, which is based purely on enmity.

TBF to Tsyu, that fight is hectic for a lot of people and they usually just forget about her conal. This is why, for instance, on Shiva EX/Unreal, I always positioned Bow on any edge, facing directly outward, even though it can be a DPS loss. If you follow the mantra of "be on her butt", you will not die. I'm just glad I got that dog and never have to go back, people constantly fuckin' up meteors drove me nuts, it's not a hard mechanic. I'm sure you can bully it a lot easier at 90 though. A tank who knows Tsyu and Shiva uses the same concept of "pulling through" on Shiva Circle/Tsyu fans.

EDIT: I meant to say "Cleaving Busters" are rare in FFXIV. The devs have started using them more in Ally Raids. Thunder God Cid being one of the oldest. And multiple bosses in the Nier raids use "Auto Cleaves." Such as Junkyard Glados or the first boss in Puppet's Bunker.

[Lord Revan]

Honestly I had no issue positioning Tsukuyomi, I even said before the first pull "Don't be in front of her" (or words to that effect, I can't remember my exact wording at this point) and we still got wiped because people stood in front of her and long enough that wasn't just a following a positional (not that healers have those to begin with).

I can only guess they were trying to get better look at my rear (well the rear of my character) or thought the "her" I was referring was my character and not female boss.

and yes I know "Torment unto Death" is technically a cone but calling it cleave is simply easier for me as I'm used to "boss has a cleave=don't be in front of them".

[TheFeniX]

I think my funniest moment was, in a Trial Roulette got Shiva HM, I turned her Sword Conal into the raid like you're supposed to on EX and wiped the entire raid except the other tank. And I just said "whoops."


This WAR stopped mid dungeon to type this out. Thought he had DCed, it took them so long to type it. I almost responded with: "Maybe I would if you didn't risk dying every time it fell off. You aren't dead, I'm spamming damage." But I ended up just ESC and didn't say a word. I hate being a fuckin' mentor at times.

I know WARs think they're immortal and shit, but you aren't. Yea, there's WARs soloing Dungeons and shit. You aren't that guy. You hit one button and then spam some AOEs. You don't Arms Length, you don't Reprisal. The 20 seconds your Bloddwhetting isn't up, you're getting wrecked and I'm overhealing you with oGCDs because I don't want to stop spamming Holy long enough to GCD heal you. And I don't want to stare at your bar to see the fuckin' icon on/off. I'd let you die, but I just want my tomes.

[Lord Revan]

I think my funniest moment was, in a Trial Roulette got Shiva HM, I turned her Sword Conal into the raid like you're supposed to on EX and wiped the entire raid except the other tank. And I just said "whoops."


This WAR stopped mid dungeon to type this out. Thought he had DCed, it took them so long to type it. I almost responded with: "Maybe I would if you didn't risk dying every time it fell off. You aren't dead, I'm spamming damage." But I ended up just ESC and didn't say a word. I hate being a fuckin' mentor at times.

I know WARs think they're immortal and shit, but you aren't. Yea, there's WARs soloing Dungeons and shit. You aren't that guy. You hit one button and then spam some AOEs. You don't Arms Length, you don't Reprisal. The 20 seconds your Bloddwhetting isn't up, you're getting wrecked and I'm overhealing you with oGCDs because I don't want to stop spamming Holy long enough to GCD heal you. And I don't want to stare at your bar to see the fuckin' icon on/off. I'd let you die, but I just want my tomes.

Honestly I've had harder time healing Warriors on my sage then Dark Knights even though Dark Knights are suppose to have utter crap self heal atm, since warriors think they're immortal and ignore all their defensive skills so they have most the time only the inherent damage reduction thru a trait you can't remove this is often comboed with them pulling way too much for their gear/skill leaving poor old me spamming every heal I got apart from Kardion (as I got no time to do damage) just to keep them from dying (and due to how Sage is designed burning thru my mana).

There's also the Warriors who "forget" that their level 90 self healing comes from traits and skill they might not have available at lower levels so adjustments are needed (FYI:My sage is not level 90 yet).

[TheFeniX]

So, I'm kinda of an elitist asshole, but I've raided. Pretty heavily. I've seen all kinds and I FUCKING HATE "meta shitters." Putting on Defiance and popping Bloodwhetting doesn't make you a baller tank. Like even back in ARR: all the damn BLMs, YoshiP's beloved class. Even as a selfish DPS, a good BLM is worth their weight in DPS. The average BLM? Worth nothing. People constantly read "class is best in <x>" and it's like there's tons of people willing to jump ship from classes/roles they are (hopefully) good at playing, to dive into a class they'd be lucky to access 80% of the DPS it can accomplish.

And it racks me off. Play what class/role you're good. Hell, learn a new role! I'll heal, tank, DPS with you all day and never say a single negative thing.

But don't be telling your healer how to play when:
A. You ain't dyin'
B. Healer is spending 100% of their GCDs on damage.
C. You think 2 abilities makes you a tank.

[Lord Revan]

Honestly in 4 mans if no-one is dead and the Healer isn't constantly MP starved the healer is "good enough" that others shouldn't be telling them how to play the game.

That said there's more to tanking then +threat still and a single self-heal no matter how good said self heal is. That's probably why I found Dark Knights so much easier to heal, they know they got poor self heal so don't think themselves invisible because they spam a single skill on cooldown, while Warriors and to lesser extent Paladins think themselves to be replacement healers because they spam a certain skill (Bloodwhetting on Warriors or Clemency on Pallies), I got a level 90 pally I know if played correctly they're very hard to slay but there's the "if played correctly" part there, just spamming Clemency will only make your MP starved and it's not powerful enough to replace a healer, sure if it crits you can get back half of your health, but I can do the same with a Diagnosis crit and I can spam Diagnosis far more then you can spam Clemency (since Sages have inherent MP regeneration) so the price of the heal isn't as bad as 4000 MP is a for a pally, not mention healers got ways to heal that cost 0 MP and those tend to be quite effective ones too.

[Lord Revan]

Ghetto edit:I checked while my pally heals for about 12k per cast with Clemency and my Sage heals for about 6k per cast on Diagnosis, that's not whole deal here as my sage is level 88 and mostly in level 80 raiding gear, while my pally is level 90 and ready for Savage item level wise though IIRC unmelded atm (that said Clemency is potency 900 and Diagnosis is potency 400).

However Clemency is 4000 mp per cast (and that cannot be reduced at all even if it can be made instant cast), while Diagnosis is 400 mp and as I mentioned before it's actually the weakest and least mana efficient of Sage heals (its true main purpose is to give the single target shield thru an interaction with the Eukrasia skill) while your actual go to heals are the Addersgall heals that are much more powerful and instant cast (while you got only 3 charges of Addersgall it recharges much faster then MP and you got a skill that gives you a free Addersgall should you need one).

EDIT:even Eukrasian Diagnosis is "only" 800 MP and that's actually quite a powerful shield you get, 150% of the amount of healing to be exact.