Ukraine reacts to fears of Russian invasion as troops build up at the border

[Ralin]

Arrogance is running a massive nuclear weapons drill

Something they do annually at least from what I understand. Because their nuclear arsenal is a major part of their national defense and they want to make sure it works the way it's supposed to.

while deploying 60% of your military along the border of your neighbor that you have been actively destabilizing before invasion in order to restore your crumbling empire

Again, why would Russia not deploy a sizeable chunk of their military near the border with a country they have a recent and ongoing border dispute with?

Pooh Bear

Nice racism.

[Col. Crackpot]

I object strenuously to calling Xi Poor Bear as being racist. They guy was mocked openly for banning images of Winnie the Pooh in China as Chinese dissidents were mocking him with it. So shove that half assed attempt to destroy my argument ad hominem with accusations of racism up your ass.

As for the rest of your argument you are rationalizing nationalist dick waiving. And while you may envision your self as some anti nationalist anti imperialist smarty pants, you are simply rooting for another nationalist empire builder over another.

[Col. Crackpot]

And Furthermore Ralin, (and formlesss et al) if the United States suddenly deployed 60% of its armed forces to the Mexican border do defend “ethnic Americans” from “cartel narco terrorists” or some bullshit with the CIA running massive clandestine ops and then ran a massive nuclear drill you would rightfully loose your fucking shit over such an outrage. So stop being such a goddamn hypocrite and see the forest for the trees .

[Darth Yan]

People don't get nuance. It's like how WEB Dubois defended Japanese imperialism because it was opposed to european imperialism. That the US is bad doesn't mean Russia isn't doing the same thing. One could argue that when the cold war ended we should have dissolved Nato and created a new organization where Russia joined, or that we shouldn't have backed Yeltsin but what's done is done

[Captain Seafort]

And Furthermore Ralin, (and formlesss et al) if the United States suddenly deployed 60% of its armed forces to the Mexican border do defend “ethnic Americans” from “cartel narco terrorists” or some bullshit with the CIA running massive clandestine ops and then ran a massive nuclear drill you would rightfully loose your fucking shit over such an outrage. So stop being such a goddamn hypocrite and see the forest for the trees.

You missed "after invading and annexing one state and running a separatist insurgency in another."

[Gandalf]

Ha! hahahahahahahaahaha. Oh man. Biden literally threatened to shut down Nord Stream 2 right in front of the German chancellor Olaf Scholz if Russia invades, and when the media called him out for having no authority to do so given its a Russian-German project, he said the US would do it anyway regardless. In previous centuries, that would be grounds for Germany to end its alliance with the US right there and Casus Belli if acted upon. Doing so would certainly hurt Germany more than Russia, and shows the sheer arrogance of the POTUS in 2022.

That threat makes very little sense. How is he going to shut it down? The US can't drone bomb and torture their way through on this one.

[Col. Crackpot]

Ha! hahahahahahahaahaha. Oh man. Biden literally threatened to shut down Nord Stream 2 right in front of the German chancellor Olaf Scholz if Russia invades, and when the media called him out for having no authority to do so given its a Russian-German project, he said the US would do it anyway regardless. In previous centuries, that would be grounds for Germany to end its alliance with the US right there and Casus Belli if acted upon. Doing so would certainly hurt Germany more than Russia, and shows the sheer arrogance of the POTUS in 2022.

That threat makes very little sense. How is he going to shut it down? The US can't drone bomb and torture their way through on this one.

Germany is porked either way. Nordstream aside, there is no way the pipelines running through Ukraine remain intact in a Russian invasion. Ukrainians may get lucky and take out ones in Belarus too. Infrastructure is a valid military target after all. That is a lot of lost capacity and will make for a cold February in Western Europe.

[Gandalf]

Germany is porked either way. Nordstream aside, there is no way the pipelines running through Ukraine remain intact in a Russian invasion. Ukrainians may get lucky and take out ones in Belarus too. Infrastructure is a valid military target after all. That is a lot of lost capacity and will make for a cold February in Western Europe.

The "it was probably going to happen anyway, so we may as well take part" approach to actions never ceases to amuse.

[Col. Crackpot]

Germany is porked either way. Nordstream aside, there is no way the pipelines running through Ukraine remain intact in a Russian invasion. Ukrainians may get lucky and take out ones in Belarus too. Infrastructure is a valid military target after all. That is a lot of lost capacity and will make for a cold February in Western Europe.

The "it was probably going to happen anyway, so we may as well take part" approach to actions never ceases to amuse.

No I am not endorsing this. Just a dose of fatalism. This whole shit show is repulsive.

[Col. Crackpot]

Though I will add this. Maybe Germany shouldn’t have shut down all those carbon neutral reactors and put all their energy eggs in one KGB basket.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Though I will add this. Maybe Germany shouldn’t have shut down all those carbon neutral reactors and put all their energy eggs in one KGB basket.

You have their knee-jerk response to Fukushima to thank for that particular fuckup

[Ralin]

They guy was mocked openly for banning images of Winnie the Pooh in China as Chinese dissidents were mocking him with it.

Some memes comparing him to Pooh were censored years back. Then it became a fad for Sinophobic shitheads to latch onto it as a fig leaf for being racist towards an Asian head of state. Or I suppose you're going to pretend that it's just a coincidence that Pooh is a yellow bear?

And Furthermore Ralin, (and formlesss et al) if the United States suddenly deployed 60% of its armed forces to the Mexican border do defend “ethnic Americans” from “cartel narco terrorists” or some bullshit with the CIA running massive clandestine ops and then ran a massive nuclear drill you would rightfully loose your fucking shit over such an outrage. So stop being such a goddamn hypocrite and see the forest for the trees .

It's not hypocritical at all because that's a terrible analogy that ignores Russia's very real concerns over their national security given their recent border disputes, the apparent internal issues in Ukraine and their issues with NATO.

and then ran a massive nuclear drill

What part of this 'massive nuclear drill' would you say is an outrage as opposed to a normal part of maintaining Russia's nuclear arsenal as a deterrent?

[Ralin]

People don't get nuance. It's like how WEB Dubois defended Japanese imperialism because it was opposed to european imperialism. That the US is bad doesn't mean Russia isn't doing the same thing. One could argue that when the cold war ended we should have dissolved Nato and created a new organization where Russia joined, or that we shouldn't have backed Yeltsin but what's done is done

Frankly I think both sides are flawed and have very real concerns about the other that should be addressed and taken seriously. I also can't see how the US being involved, much less calling the shots in how NATO responds, is anything other than a guarantee that things will either escalate or continue as their are indefinitely. And as an American you should be much more concerned about Biden deliberately or ignorantly starting Operation Ukrainian Freedom against a country that can actually fight the US military and win than anything else.

[Col. Crackpot]

Concerns over border disputes? Loke when they invaded Ukraine last time to restore their Soviet era naval holdings in Sevastopol? Or are you referring to when they invaded Georgia? Or perhaps Syria for Tartus?

And yes, running a massive nuclear drill while mobilizing the overwhelming majority of your military in the direction of the neighbor you invaded a few years prior is an act of intimidation. Can you imagine if NATO ran a massive nuclear drill in 1990 in the run up to Desert Storm?

I think you know this and are being deliberately obtuse as you are behaving as objectively as a Mancunian discussing the strength of Liverpool’s chances at a title this year.

[Ralin]

Concerns over border disputes? Loke when they invaded Ukraine last time to restore their Soviet era naval holdings in Sevastopol? Or are you referring to when they invaded Georgia? Or perhaps Syria for Tartus?

You know full well what I'm talking about, troll.

And yes, running a massive nuclear drill while mobilizing the overwhelming majority of your military in the direction of the neighbor you invaded a few years prior is an act of intimidation

What part of this 'massive nuclear drill' would you say is an outrage as opposed to a normal part of maintaining Russia's nuclear arsenal as a deterrent?

Answer the question, shithead.

Can you imagine if NATO ran a massive nuclear drill in 1990 in the run up to Desert Storm?

Are the current drills larger than the ones Russia normally holds or something?

[Col. Crackpot]

I answered the fucking question. Stop being a deliberately obtuse douche canoe.

[Ralin]

I answered the fucking question. Stop being a deliberately obtuse douche canoe.

No, you did not. What about these 'massive' nuclear drills do you think are outrageous? How do they differ from other drills the Russian military has done to ensure their nuclear arsenal remains ready to use?

[Col. Crackpot]

I answered the fucking question. Stop being a deliberately obtuse douche canoe.

No, you did not. What about these 'massive' nuclear drills do you think are outrageous? How do they differ from other drills the Russian military has done to ensure their nuclear arsenal remains ready to use?

That they coincide with what appears to every reasonable person from Washington to Beijing to be a prelude to an invasion of its neighbor. If you can’t see how deliberately provocative that is then there is no sense continuing this discussion.

[Ralin]

That they coincide with what appears to every reasonable person from Washington to Beijing to be a prelude to an invasion of its neighbor. If you can’t see how deliberately provocative that is then there is no sense continuing this discussion.

So they're 'massive' and an outrage because they're happening now. That's it.

Yeah, not much of an argument.

[Formless]

Germany is porked either way. Nordstream aside, there is no way the pipelines running through Ukraine remain intact in a Russian invasion. Ukrainians may get lucky and take out ones in Belarus too. Infrastructure is a valid military target after all. That is a lot of lost capacity and will make for a cold February in Western Europe.

The "it was probably going to happen anyway, so we may as well take part" approach to actions never ceases to amuse.

He'll "find a way", supposedly.

Its pure bluster. Putin will probably do it before the US can get the chance, just to make Biden look even stupider, and further alienate Germany from its NATO "partners".

[Formless]

Woops, quoted the wrong post. Oh well, it is amusing to see Crackpot and I agree on something, sorta.

[Col. Crackpot]

Woops, quoted the wrong post. Oh well, it is amusing to see Crackpot and I agree on something, sorta.

I’d imagine we would also agree that the great lesson many of us learned the hard way from 2003 is to be very fucking suspicious when a great power is trying to justify the invasion of someone. Saddam was an asshole. The Azov bridge sounds like they are cut from the same cloth. Neither is justification for an invasion based on lies. I half expect Putin to tell us about Zelensky getting yellow cake from Africa at this point.

Jesus the Russians are making the CIA look downright competent lately. I can’t believe we were afraid of these guys.

[Col. Crackpot]

Breaking from Russia Times: Putin has declared the German speaking areas of the Sudetenland… errr i mean Donetsk and Luhansk as separate from Ukraine.

Cue the tanks.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Breaking from Russia Times: Putin has declared the German speaking areas of the Sudetenland… errr i mean Donetsk and Luhansk as separate from Ukraine.

Cue the tanks.

Well apparently parts of those areas are still held by the Ukrainian government. Out come the mines.

[Formless]

Woops, quoted the wrong post. Oh well, it is amusing to see Crackpot and I agree on something, sorta.

I’d imagine we would also agree that the great lesson many of us learned the hard way from 2003 is to be very fucking suspicious when a great power is trying to justify the invasion of someone. Saddam was an asshole. The Azov bridge sounds like they are cut from the same cloth. Neither is justification for an invasion based on lies. I half expect Putin to tell us about Zelensky getting yellow cake from Africa at this point.

Jesus the Russians are making the CIA look downright competent lately. I can’t believe we were afraid of these guys.

So why do you only apply that logic to Russia?