The Influences on D&D... If Made Today

[Majin Gojira]

A thought has been percolating around my head, about Dungeons & Dragons, and the literary influences that helped design the world of the game. Among several articles, there were a LOT of influences that ranged from major (Tolkein) to "One creature from this one story" (The Displacer Beast).

The ones that stood out to me the most, literary wise, were:

• J.R.R. Tolkein/The Lord of the Rings

• Robert E. Howard/The Conan and related stories.

• H.P. Lovecraft/The Cthulhu Mythos

• Edgar Rice Burroughs/Tarzan, Pelucidar, Barsoom

• Fritz Leiber/Farhad and the Gray Mouser

• Michael Moorcock/Elric of Melniboné

Of that original list, most have fallen off the pop-cultural radar. Only Tolkein, Howard, and Lovecraft really remain -- though the influences of the others are felt well beyond D&D.

A thought occurred to me looking over all this "What if someone did this Today?"

I know we have faith edition showing some bleed-in from newer series (4 Elements Monk/ Avatar the Last Airbender is kind of obvious), it's been only minor. If influences from modern fantasy/science fiction works got a stronger foothold over in the creation of D&D, what would those things be and what would it look like?

I mean, besides Avatar, since that is already tapped thematically for D&D. Same for Star Wars, because that influences Everything,

And on that note, you are not limited to literature specifically for this thing. Any story told in any medium is valid.

[Solauren]

Basically, anything that was influenced by D&D. (In irony)

[Batman]

Were Farhad and the Gray MouserMichael Moorcock/Elric of Melniboné ever ON the the pop culture radar? Never heard of Mouser guy before I got here.

[GuppyShark]

Elric was a significant influence on Warhammer, so it would bleed over from there if nothing else.

[KraytKing]

Probably ASOIAF, but not much. It doesn't really notch into "fantasy" in the way the others do, but it's pretty big culturally and especially big with the fanbase that D&D holds. Perhaps it would influence a more toned-down style, less of the sword and sorcery type with big, flashy spells that do anything and everything. That, I think, might be supported by other contemporary fantasy, though I'll admit I've not kept up with the modern trends.

I guess the best, most boring answer would be "whatever role playing games now are about."

[LadyTevar]

I would say more that D&D influenced what we have today.

ASOIAF/Game of Thrones had multiple characters on different quests, learning new roles (Arya becomes an assassin, Jon a Ranger, etc). Avatar:Last Airbender was a random mixed party on a quest to save the world. Discworld started with a Tolkien Satire, and lifted from D&D as well.

[Solauren]

There is a chance that Harry Potter would influence it as well.

[Jub]

It's kind of tough to disentangle post-D&D fantasy from the game itself. If you want to see what might influence a modern cultural touchstone fantasy game, look at modern fantasy games and see what's influenced them.

[Lord Revan]

It's kind of tough to disentangle post-D&D fantasy from the game itself.

Indeed that's kind of the problem with thought experiments like this, the very fact the work in question (in this case Dungeons and Dragons) has itself influenced so much that you'd might end in situation where the work ends up influencing itself indirectly if we assume all other works remain the same, if we assume other works don't remain the same then it's within the realms of pure speculations

[Majin Gojira]

It's kind of tough to disentangle post-D&D fantasy from the game itself.

Indeed that's kind of the problem with thought experiments like this, the very fact the work in question (in this case Dungeons and Dragons) has itself influenced so much that you'd might end in situation where the work ends up influencing itself indirectly if we assume all other works remain the same, if we assume other works don't remain the same then it's within the realms of pure speculations

I think outside of direct influences and adaptations (Critical Role, Record of Lodoss War, Goblin Slayer, Overlord), the chain-of-influence from the original sources that inspired D&D to what inspired D&D is more like a passing of the touch with D&D as an intermediary. It can get kind of weird. Like, Dragonquest is highly influential to a lot of fantasy in Japan, and it was influenced by games such as Wizardry and Ultima, which were influenced by D&D. So, how much creative DNA does something like That Time I Got Reincarnated As A Slime get from D&D that's truly D&D?

It's hair-splittingly difficult try and sus out, that's for sure! But I think we can use that as a framework for saying that things would largely be the same, but the overt stuff would not be there. Alternatively, you could look at well-loved fantasy series with detailed world-building that have gotten a stronghold onto the nerd-spheres.

So, that's two ways to narrow things down.

But perhaps I've been looking at nonwestern fantasies for so long (Throne of the Crescent Moon by Saladin Ahmed, "The Sixth World" series by Rebecca Roanhorse, The "Obsidian and Blood" trilogy by Aliette de Bodard, Journey to the West, and Iron Widow by Xiran Jay Zhao) that it's skewed my perspective. Along with reading fantasy that just predates or was contemporary to the first edition (The Dragon & The George by Gordon R. Dickson) perhaps under-valuing D&D's influence in my own mind.

[Esquire]

I think you probably don't get Vancian magic in a made-today D&D; maybe magic system looks like some weird mashup of the Dresden Files and Harry Potter, with a lot of willpower checks and focus instruments instead of defined spell levels and single-digit per-day casting limits.

[LadyTevar]

I think you probably don't get Vancian magic in a made-today D&D; maybe magic system looks like some weird mashup of the Dresden Files and Harry Potter, with a lot of willpower checks and focus instruments instead of defined spell levels and single-digit per-day casting limits.

Dresden Files is based on D&D. Hell, he even PLAYS DnD.

[Coop D'etat]

Yes, but he's right that a system made now wouldn't consider Dying Earth a major influence. Probably use something akin to a mana pool. As it is, 5e made a major move in that direction with flexible spell slots rather than spells being something you prepared while resting and you were limited to the type and mix you selected then.

A lot of racial things and cosmic alignments have gone out of style as well.

[Darth Lucifer]

Magic: The Gathering definitely had influence on Dungeons & Dragons and when WOTC purchased TSR, alot of creatures and lore from M:TG went into D&D. When collectible card games (CCG's) first came on the scene in the early 90's, many people thought it would be the death of tabletop RPG's but they have endured and now later generations of gamers enjoy both CCG's and tabletop.

[Esquire]

I think you probably don't get Vancian magic in a made-today D&D; maybe magic system looks like some weird mashup of the Dresden Files and Harry Potter, with a lot of willpower checks and focus instruments instead of defined spell levels and single-digit per-day casting limits.

Dresden Files is based on D&D. Hell, he even PLAYS DnD.

Sure, but Harry never says 'whelp, no more fireballs for me today, better switch to my second-level spells, ' is my point.

[Majin Gojira]

I think you probably don't get Vancian magic in a made-today D&D; maybe magic system looks like some weird mashup of the Dresden Files and Harry Potter, with a lot of willpower checks and focus instruments instead of defined spell levels and single-digit per-day casting limits.

That ... actually carries over into adaptations of D&D seen today. With a more 'mana'/'power point' style of freeform magic.

At least, if Critical Role: The Legend of Vox Machina is anything to go by.

[Solauren]

Magic: The Gathering definitely had influence on Dungeons & Dragons and when WOTC purchased TSR, alot of creatures and lore from M:TG went into D&D. When collectible card games (CCG's) first came on the scene in the early 90's, many people thought it would be the death of tabletop RPG's but they have endured and now later generations of gamers enjoy both CCG's and tabletop.

Problem - Magic the Gathering (and other CCGs) were heavily inspired by pre3e-D&D.

[Gunhead]

Hmm... If D&D was made today, I think the first difference would be, it wouldn't be system wise at all like D&D currently is.
Which is sort of interesting. Do people pick up D&D rules or the world first?? I only have a passing familiarity with D&D gaming worlds, which I guess means at no point I went "Well THIS is a world I want to use". Not meaning that they're bad as such, I tend to stay away from fantasy overall so I have no particular interest in D&D worlds.
However, since we're talking about ... reimagined??? D&D.. It an interesting question because it's kind of chicken or the egg type of question.

-Gunhead

[GuppyShark]

Yeah, the D&D setting books seem unpopular. There's not even a Dragonlance book.

[Solauren]

WOTC switched to mostly digital publishing except for the 'introduction stuff'. The reason being simple economics.

With setting books, the only person to buy them is usually the Dungeon Master. Who now, usually owns a computer.

Printed books have a higher profit margin.

[Esquire]

Yeah, the D&D setting books seem unpopular. There's not even a Dragonlance book.

That's because Dragonlance is a pretty weird setting that hasn't been popular for decades, if ever. Eberron and FR are very much alive in current D&D, as far as I know.

[Solauren]

Yeah, the D&D setting books seem unpopular. There's not even a Dragonlance book.

That's because Dragonlance is a pretty weird setting that hasn't been popular for decades, if ever. Eberron and FR are very much alive in current D&D, as far as I know.

True. Dragonlance 'Saga' system pretty much killed it as a game setting.
Then you had all that stuff with Takahsis being 'the One God' and having stole the planet and put it in a time pocket....

[GuppyShark]

I forgot what it eventually devolved into, Dragons of Autumn Twilight was still a classic.

[Solauren]

I forgot what it eventually devolved into, Dragons of Autumn Twilight was still a classic.

It's okay, most people burned the 'Saga and later' stuff out of their minds


Oh, something that would influence D&D - Zombie Plague movies/tv shows.

[Majin Gojira]

I forgot what it eventually devolved into, Dragons of Autumn Twilight was still a classic.

It's okay, most people burned the 'Saga and later' stuff out of their minds


Oh, something that would influence D&D - Zombie Plague movies/tv shows.

That just reminds me of the alterations I saw once to turn D&D zombies into Romero types. Increase the AC by 2, reduce the hit points to like 2, and give them an infectious bite (con reducing disease).

Of course, the best zombie RPG will always be "All Flesh Must Be Eaten."