Final Fantasy XIV

[Darth Yan]

The WoL has such little "bloodlust" in her, admittedly a nebulous concept, she's essentially immune to:
A. WAR rage, using is in it's "pure" form from essentially the beginning
B. The Eye of Niddhog's influence
C. The corrupting influence of Black Magic
D. pissing off the Elements and can near instantly access the higher powers of White Magic.

Other characters struggle massively under the weight of negative emotions and constantly look to "the rock" that is the WoL. Where is this bloodlust? There's never a wisp of it, Zenos rants about it, but he's full of shit. Emet murdered MILLIONS over the years. He is DIRECTLY responsible for most of the bad shit that has happened to you. Where is the smug smile at his death? Why does the WoL instead look like she's about to cry?

Yea, there's a dichotomy there of me fighting some low grade pirates and opening on them with Dragonfire Dive. Or the fact that the WoL's body count is in the thousands. But that's a GAMEPLAY contrivance. You either accept it for what it is or you literally cannot analyze most video games since reducing HPs to 0 is (better or worse) a core-concept of many. Yuna (FFX) has also laid low thousands of monsters/humans: is she bloodthirsty?

The list goes on and on and she's been through some insane bullshit, not the least of which having tons of her friends murdered and then, after "killing" said Head Murdering Asshole (Gaius) the, admittedly mute, WoL seems more sad about the whole ordeal.

Now, you could make the argument the Blessing of Light (Traveler's Ward) makes her immune to a lot of shit, since it's supposed to make her Aether incapable of being changed by external forces. Except, "LOLWHOOPS" Fandaniel and Zenos SOMEHOW figure out a way to soul jack her, with little to no explanation.

My beef with Zenos's whole everything is that he takes years of established lore and vomits on it so the devs can hold up some kind of mirror to the WoL that doesn't. fucking. exist. It's on par with WoW bullshit where they just asspull whatever lore they want, retconning shit when they want, all for cool cutscenes. It's cheap and lazy. Much like Ran'Jit: Zenos exists in a near total vacuum. After dealing with his bullshit for 3 expacs, I still have no emotional connection to him unlike tons of crying fans. I don't get his draw and I never will. He's that annoying road bump on your drive home you just have to keep putting up with every day. Worse, actually, he's like a speedbump on a 70mph highway: His shit clashes with everything else.

The level 80 PLD (GLD, really) quest had more emotional impact to me because Aldus just wants a scrap with you. Nothing on the line. And he takes one good look at you and says "I can't win." He understands instantly that the hardships you've dealt with and the drive you needed to conquer them puts you on a level way above him. And he's not all "HUR HUR, your bloodlust got you there."

People who see "bloodlust" (or whatever) in THEIR WoL are seeing it in themselves. Not the actual character. I DO, at times, get annoyed that MY WoL is NOT someone I have a lot of control over internally. But I don't go making shit up about her to fit my FanLore. Zenos is basically Kreia (KOTOR2): someone who sees themselves in others because they hate themselves and the world and want someone to "get" them. So they impress their own failings on the Protag/Player. They both spout mostly stupid bullshit to appeal to edgy teenagers and man-children, but are saved by stellar voice acting.

Dear God, Estinien would make a better foil to Zenos than the WoL.

1.) You ARE making up shit to fit your fanlore though. I can just as easily say that the Warrior’s compassion and love of protecting people (which even Zenos concedes is a main driving factor) is what allows them to resist war rage, nidhoggs eye, black magic and avoid pissing off the elementals/use white magic. The warriors a blank cipher in many ways so the players are writing their own personality. They

2.) Yuna is compassionate true. The warrior still has a higher body toll, and even Yuna has a killing edge (you don’t get good at killing unless on some level you either enjoy it or shut it out.) Hell, one of the Garlean soldiers you meet (Octavia) is a survivor of your attack on the Praetorium and she’s clearly still traumatized just by the memory of seeing you in action.

I’ll say it again. The warrior IS a killer, and damn good at it. I can easily imagine them having at least a part of themselves that enjoys it

For certain people (Asahi Brutus) I think even the nicest warrior would have taken pleasure in making him a greasy smear on the floor.

You’re being rather narcissistic by saying your interpretation is the only right one

[TheFeniX]

1.) You ARE making up shit to fit your fanlore though. I can just as easily say that the Warrior’s compassion and love of protecting people (which even Zenos concedes is a main driving factor) is what allows them to resist war rage, nidhoggs eye, black magic and avoid pissing off the elementals/use white magic. The warriors a blank cipher in many ways so the players are writing their own personality. They

So wait, you can say Love and Compassion is what makes her tick, and that somehow proves the WoL has some kind of bloodthirsty streak? I'm not really understanding your point here. MY point is that IF the WoL has a bloodthirsty streak, it literally only exists when interacting with ONE character: Zenos. You literally do not find examples of her going out of her way to cause more misery and death than necessary, outside of a few "joke" options such as telling the Anata leader "I will kill your god if necessary." Which even as a joke option makes it VERY clear the WoL nearly always HAS to put down primals. It's a NEED, not a desire.

Based on everything I know about the WoL over years of playing her and doing... pretty much every fuckin' quest in the game: given the option to fight or walk away (100% esp when death is on the line). She'll walk away. But, obv there's a part in EW where she does the opposite. And it's dumb. Holy SHIT is it dumb, but some people might not be there, so I won't spoil.

This is some weird shit to argue. If some bully is picking on you everyday, stepping on the back of your shoes, pulling your backback straps, punching you, pushing you, smacking your friends around, sending goons to beat up your family, and then after months of this, you finally snap and lay him out. Are you really gonna sit there and be like "OH NOES, I am JUST LIKE him! I like violence!" You can't push people into a corner and get them to snap and then claim some sort of high ground: "You're just like me." It's stupid in real life and it's stupid in fiction.

2.) Yuna is compassionate true. The warrior still has a higher body toll, and even Yuna has a killing edge (you don’t get good at killing unless on some level you either enjoy it or shut it out.) Hell, one of the Garlean soldiers you meet (Octavia) is a survivor of your attack on the Praetorium and she’s clearly still traumatized just by the memory of seeing you in action.

Yea, I'm sure there were a LOT of Nazi soldiers traumatized by them getting their asses kicked from both sides by the Allied forces. That proves what? The WoL is obvious beyond a first rate combatant. So what? What does this prove? You saying "you gotta have bloodlust to get there" is a purely speculative opinion. But I can't think of a single example of the WoL going over the line, pushing further when the amount of violence needed to solve a problem is done.

Does this character say "ZOMG, and then she was slaughtering fleeing combatants and eating their entrails." Nope.

I’ll say it again. The warrior IS a killer, and damn good at it. I can easily imagine them having at least a part of themselves that enjoys it

You can imagine whatever you want: I follow the lore of the game. I can't think of a single instance where the WoL pushed things farther than they have to go. But hey, I've been playing this game off and on since Syrcus Tower. Who knows what I've forgotten. You got some EXAMPLES, hit me with them. But as I've already said, equating a body count in a video game doesn't really cut it. I mean, hilariously Last Action Hero fuckin' NAILS this idea. Arnold is just TIRED of people trying to kill him all the time and him just YOLOing them: "There's ALWAYS someone in the closet trying to kill me."

This is just.... the circumstances of the whole "Hero Motif." I mean, if people AREN'T trying to kill them and their friends? There's no story. To turn that around on the character as some sort of Bloodlust? Is unfair.

For certain people (Asahi Brutus) I think even the nicest warrior would have taken pleasure in making him a greasy smear on the floor.

So, you're saying the WoL is able to internalize their base instinct for revenge, vengeance, brutality against people who damn sure deserve it? We agree 100%. FFXIV, for better or worse, CONSTANTLY puts the WoL into instances where they are given zero choice in whether or not to kill someone. It has to be done to protect herself or others. To me, this whole argument is like "oh man, you KILLED that guy who was about to murder 15 children!? WOW. Such bloodthirst." Show me some examples where the WoL had a choice and decided to push past, push further, beat some guy down, mow down surrendering soldiers. You know, shit that Zenos does for breakfast. YOU want to turn Asai into paste, the WoL just wants people to stop being evil.

You’re being rather narcissistic by saying your interpretation is the only right one

Whatever, I have eyes and ears. You can't write a character one way 100% of the time and then just be like "Yea, but BELOW THE SURFACE!?" It's dumb, as I've said: the DRK 30-50 stuff was a way better breakdown of the WoL (and The Player). Hell, Gaius was as well and rightfully points out how the WoL refuses to TAKE POWER for herself. And if she only did this.... well, she'd be pretty fuckin' terrifying. Sure is a good thing this isn't a Bioware game, right? Cuz then you WOULD have the option to revel in Bloodlust. There'd be a WHOLE lot MORE dead bodies if I had a choice. And at the least, Gaius would be getting a right-hook at least once or twice during ShB. BUT, like I said: Better or worse the WoL isn't really "our" character.

But let's face facts here: FFXIV is not some deep thematic dive into WHAT IS MAN type shit. The themes they learn on are not complex. In fact, it's one of the things I REALLY enjoy about the writing: it doesn't have it's head up it's ass trying to work with shit they don't understand. I mean, I was groaning about the time travel shit, and then they, in a smart and simple way, created a stable time loop. Which is.... .well, let's face it, a LOT of writers can't do that. So, to sum this rant up: when they stumble, such as with Ran'Jit and Zenos, it is PAINFUL to me because the writing in this game has been on average extremely high quality and consistent with itself.

[TheFeniX]

Because quote tags break spoiler tags, I'm doing this part extra. I'm actually fairly observant about shit that happens. I've mentioned this before, but there's a part in the Phys Ranged DPS Role Quest where: Spoiler

And old, and I mean old, Aura lady pulls a knife on Hein attempting to stab him.
Hein is a top flight SAM who are canonically faster than the human eye.
Yugiri is likely the best NIN to exist outside the WoL.
To stop this old lady with a knife?
Yugiri speed dashes and straight up ENDS her.

This is in a setting where Merylweb has been shown to causally shoot weapons out of people's hands. And she's not shown to be particularly fast. And I'm just laughing because the WoL won't do that when the stakes are way higher. The complete overreaction to this is never hit on. Sure, yea, an old lady with a knife is a threat to a normal person. But these two (three)? Gonna need a bit of exposition here to explain why that was necessary. Exposition we didn't get. If the WoL acted like that more often? We would not be having an argument.

[Darth Yan]

1.) You ARE making up shit to fit your fanlore though. I can just as easily say that the Warrior’s compassion and love of protecting people (which even Zenos concedes is a main driving factor) is what allows them to resist war rage, nidhoggs eye, black magic and avoid pissing off the elementals/use white magic. The warriors a blank cipher in many ways so the players are writing their own personality. They

So wait, you can say Love and Compassion is what makes her tick, and that somehow proves the WoL has some kind of bloodthirsty streak? I'm not really understanding your point here. MY point is that IF the WoL has a bloodthirsty streak, it literally only exists when interacting with ONE character: Zenos. You literally do not find examples of her going out of her way to cause more misery and death than necessary, outside of a few "joke" options such as telling the Anata leader "I will kill your god if necessary." Which even as a joke option makes it VERY clear the WoL nearly always HAS to put down primals. It's a NEED, not a desire.

Based on everything I know about the WoL over years of playing her and doing... pretty much every fuckin' quest in the game: given the option to fight or walk away (100% esp when death is on the line). She'll walk away. But, obv there's a part in EW where she does the opposite. And it's dumb. Holy SHIT is it dumb, but some people might not be there, so I won't spoil.

This is some weird shit to argue. If some bully is picking on you everyday, stepping on the back of your shoes, pulling your backback straps, punching you, pushing you, smacking your friends around, sending goons to beat up your family, and then after months of this, you finally snap and lay him out. Are you really gonna sit there and be like "OH NOES, I am JUST LIKE him! I like violence!" You can't push people into a corner and get them to snap and then claim some sort of high ground: "You're just like me." It's stupid in real life and it's stupid in fiction.

2.) Yuna is compassionate true. The warrior still has a higher body toll, and even Yuna has a killing edge (you don’t get good at killing unless on some level you either enjoy it or shut it out.) Hell, one of the Garlean soldiers you meet (Octavia) is a survivor of your attack on the Praetorium and she’s clearly still traumatized just by the memory of seeing you in action.

Yea, I'm sure there were a LOT of Nazi soldiers traumatized by them getting their asses kicked from both sides by the Allied forces. That proves what? The WoL is obvious beyond a first rate combatant. So what? What does this prove? You saying "you gotta have bloodlust to get there" is a purely speculative opinion. But I can't think of a single example of the WoL going over the line, pushing further when the amount of violence needed to solve a problem is done.

Does this character say "ZOMG, and then she was slaughtering fleeing combatants and eating their entrails." Nope.

I’ll say it again. The warrior IS a killer, and damn good at it. I can easily imagine them having at least a part of themselves that enjoys it

You can imagine whatever you want: I follow the lore of the game. I can't think of a single instance where the WoL pushed things farther than they have to go. But hey, I've been playing this game off and on since Syrcus Tower. Who knows what I've forgotten. You got some EXAMPLES, hit me with them. But as I've already said, equating a body count in a video game doesn't really cut it. I mean, hilariously Last Action Hero fuckin' NAILS this idea. Arnold is just TIRED of people trying to kill him all the time and him just YOLOing them: "There's ALWAYS someone in the closet trying to kill me."

This is just.... the circumstances of the whole "Hero Motif." I mean, if people AREN'T trying to kill them and their friends? There's no story. To turn that around on the character as some sort of Bloodlust? Is unfair.

For certain people (Asahi Brutus) I think even the nicest warrior would have taken pleasure in making him a greasy smear on the floor.

So, you're saying the WoL is able to internalize their base instinct for revenge, vengeance, brutality against people who damn sure deserve it? We agree 100%. FFXIV, for better or worse, CONSTANTLY puts the WoL into instances where they are given zero choice in whether or not to kill someone. It has to be done to protect herself or others. To me, this whole argument is like "oh man, you KILLED that guy who was about to murder 15 children!? WOW. Such bloodthirst." Show me some examples where the WoL had a choice and decided to push past, push further, beat some guy down, mow down surrendering soldiers. You know, shit that Zenos does for breakfast. YOU want to turn Asai into paste, the WoL just wants people to stop being evil.

You’re being rather narcissistic by saying your interpretation is the only right one

Whatever, I have eyes and ears. You can't write a character one way 100% of the time and then just be like "Yea, but BELOW THE SURFACE!?" It's dumb, as I've said: the DRK 30-50 stuff was a way better breakdown of the WoL (and The Player). Hell, Gaius was as well and rightfully points out how the WoL refuses to TAKE POWER for herself. And if she only did this.... well, she'd be pretty fuckin' terrifying. Sure is a good thing this isn't a Bioware game, right? Cuz then you WOULD have the option to revel in Bloodlust. There'd be a WHOLE lot MORE dead bodies if I had a choice. And at the least, Gaius would be getting a right-hook at least once or twice during ShB. BUT, like I said: Better or worse the WoL isn't really "our" character.

But let's face facts here: FFXIV is not some deep thematic dive into WHAT IS MAN type shit. The themes they learn on are not complex. In fact, it's one of the things I REALLY enjoy about the writing: it doesn't have it's head up it's ass trying to work with shit they don't understand. I mean, I was groaning about the time travel shit, and then they, in a smart and simple way, created a stable time loop. Which is.... .well, let's face it, a LOT of writers can't do that. So, to sum this rant up: when they stumble, such as with Ran'Jit and Zenos, it is PAINFUL to me because the writing in this game has been on average extremely high quality and consistent with itself.

1.) More that they have love and compassion.....but also a part that enjoys fighting and overcoming limits and challenges. Hell even Zenos admits that compassion and a desire to help others is your primary driving force. He just thinks that there is ALSO a part of you that likes fighting and enjoys overcoming obstacles. You can be both a primarily nice and compassionate person....and still have a small part of yourself that enjoys combat (which does NOT equate to being a violent look like Zenos). That the warrior is primarily compassionate does not mean they can't have a part of themselves that likes fighting even if they prefer the peaceful option the majority of the time. Heck you mention that one of the temptations in the dark knight storyline is the temptation to just go back to being an adventurer. Wouldn't just being an adventurer mean killing things on some level?

2.) The reasons I like Zenos are partially in the "desperately searching for a purpose and meaning" that he embodies. It's made clear that he's never really had challenges or obstacles to overcome like the Warrior. It was only when the Warrior beat him that he had a goal and a challenge....something to make life worth living. Varis and Emet Selch also didn't do much to help him and the fact that he does help you implies that had he been raised better he might not have been so terrible.

3.) There's no such thing as a truly dispassionate warrior. Every time a person fights, kills etc there's a part of them that feels passion and anger. The Warrior of Light is no different. And given just how many warriors they've cut down I can EASILY by that there's a small part of them that does enjoy fighting opponents. Doesn't mean they kill children or engage in wanton cruelty. They may not seek out violence but they won’t run from it

4.) Anger at injustice isn’t malevolent but it is anger. There’s a part that wants the bad people to suffer.

[LadyTevar]

FeniX, Yan, I'm gonna put on the Mod Hat and ask that y'all either make a new thread to argue this elsewhere, or just take a break.
Neither of you are making any NEW points in the argument, and neither of you are convincing the other who's right.

Please let this thread go back to discussion of other points of the game, not just how you think "Zenos Sux".

Large size is so y'all see the message.

[TheFeniX]

That's fair. I've said my piece and in the absence of examples, there's nothing that's going to change my mind.

Finally got all Tanks and Healers to 90. The disparity in survivability is.... staggering. There's this meme on Novice Network that Augmented <x> gear (essentially the "best" gear from last expac, so ilvl 530 at 80) cannot take you all the way to next expac. It's always been a hilarious idea, as it damn sure can. You may possibly run into some issues on double trash pulls in the "eights" dungeons, such as My. Gulg (anything in the X7 to X9 level range). For DRK, this is an incredibly dangerous time. Blackest Night falls off heavily and you're basically in a sprint to cycle CDs, even with a great healer. PLD/GNB are better in this regard but things can still get dicey.

Then you LOLWAR and it's like...... the funniest shit ever as you're spamming out metric tons of damage and healing for 5k PER MOB hit. And then you just need to cycle in a rando defensive until Bloodwhetting is back up in 25s. And your 60 second on-demand self heal (Equilibrium) just hits for a flat 20k.This is good though because WAR is now super flashy and I already have the PLD and GNB mounts. Kyle was bitching about my PLD self-heals ("ZOMG Clemency crits for 25k"), but he may as well AFK as healer if the DPS aren't taking damage if I'm on WAR.

For healers like.... my SGE is 90 and I've never done anything relevant. Not a single dungeon, just quests, FATEs, and MSQ roulette. I have no idea how to play it and dont' care to. GLAREMAGE for life. People meme about it having no mana, and yea it suffers from this unlike every other healer, but literally Lucid and Assize on CD and mana is never an issue. The push now is to get my last 4 classes to 90 and then spam Mentor Roulette until new content comes out, I get bored and fuck off to Warframe, or I rage hard enough at Sprout tanks and shit Mentor DPS to lose my crown.

Now the debate: what class do I buy my 590 weapon for?

SIDENOTE: Pixie Beast Tribe Quest do not nerf the XP gains past 80, in case you didn't know, so it's still an easy ~1mil XP per day for les than 5 minutes of work.

[LadyTevar]

Finally got all Tanks and Healers to 90. The disparity in survivability is.... staggering. There's this meme on Novice Network that Augmented <x> gear (essentially the "best" gear from last expac, so ilvl 530 at 80) cannot take you all the way to next expac. It's always been a hilarious idea, as it damn sure can. You may possibly run into some issues on double trash pulls in the "eights" dungeons, such as My. Gulg (anything in the X7 to X9 level range). For DRK, this is an incredibly dangerous time. Blackest Night falls off heavily and you're basically in a sprint to cycle CDs, even with a great healer. PLD/GNB are better in this regard but things can still get dicey.

Yes, I've noticed that in the CD cycle for DRK. I'm trying to find an Optimate HotBar mix (I'm using a controller, not PC key). I have all my Dam.Reduction on the LT/arrow keys, so I can cycle thru. But Cooldowns leave me having to space things out so I wind up with no protection for critical seconds. Suggestions on how to work this would be AWESOME.

SIDENOTE: Pixie Beast Tribe Quest do not nerf the XP gains past 80, in case you didn't know, so it's still an easy ~1mil XP per day for les than 5 minutes of work.

Yep. Pixie side-quests are about the best in the game, imho. The area is also the best layout for FATE-hunting, but I've gotten too high to use them. Torma/Upper Khalousa is not a bad layout, but you have to ignore the FATES below the cliff, they're too low. Gonna look at Ondu Cup next, those FATES were listed as Lvl 79+.

Big Question: Do you get XP from TRUSTS? If so, would that be a good way to lvl your 80+ characters?

[TheFeniX]

Yes, I've noticed that in the CD cycle for DRK. I'm trying to find an Optimate HotBar mix (I'm using a controller, not PC key). I have all my Dam.Reduction on the LT/arrow keys, so I can cycle thru. But Cooldowns leave me having to space things out so I wind up with no protection for critical seconds. Suggestions on how to work this would be AWESOME.

So, the basic thing is, on a double pull, providing your healer is competent:

No CDs (not even Blackest Night) while pulling mobs and grouping up, movement alone will mitigate. Blackest Night (TBN) as soon as they are grouped up. Damage spike is variable depending on if you have a WHM spamming Holy, which will give you ~ 8 seconds of mitigation. I let them get a few hits in after TBN and then Abysal Drain at ~ half HP to immediately heal myself back to full (shares a CD with Carve and Spit, so be careful). After that, you generally want to use your longest CDs first, to get the CDs cooling:
Shadow Wall (30% for 15 seconds) easily gets you into your next TBN. As DRK, ALWAYS bank 3000Mana, use the rest on Flood of Darkness for more damage.
After that, I usually combine CDs when cycling between them and TBN.
Reprisal + Arms Length. Be careful when you use Arms Length as the mobs have to HIT you for them to be slowed, so if the WHM is chain-stunning, Arms Length can be useless.
Rampart + Dark Mind/Dark Missionary. This depends on if mobs are using any kind of magic damage, which can be hard to gauge.
Past 82, you can also start cycling in Oblation. It's trash, but it's still 10%.

After that, if the pull goes on too long, you are completely at the mercy of your healer and DPS output to kill the mobs before they kill you or you survive long enough that cooldowns start coming back.

The issue isn't that DRK is hard, it's that a weak healer, literally, kills you AND forces you to near panic into overusing CDs in the moment: versus any other tank where no matter how good/bad the healer is, your pull is generally the same. Excepting maybe PLD because you have a powerful cast-time heal.

Gonna look at Ondu Cup next, those FATES were listed as Lvl 79+.

Honestly? I would join literally whatever FATE train party is up that is at/higher level than me, even if it's in higher level EW zones, provided you have flying unlocked for said zones. Yes, you get (a bit) less XP, but the sheer volume of FATES a large group can chew through in quick fashion is well worth any lost XP per FATE.

EDIT: I have never seen an EW FATE group complain about a sub-80 being in the group. YMMV.

Big Question: Do you get XP from TRUSTS? If so, would that be a good way to lvl your 80+ characters?

Ok, don't quote me on this numberwise. But, yes. It's good XP, just like the meme of "if roulettes are done, queue for highest level dungeon as DPS and do FATEs while you wait." This is a newer option. First boss gives about 500k, second 800k, and last about 1.1mil. You get less gear drops, but you obv get them all: easy GC seals farming also to buy the 4.0 boxes for Mounts/Minions. It's how I'm leveling BLM cuz I have no idea how to play it well and don't care to learn. I'm still only barely up to 85 on all the Scions..... excepting Alisae.

NOTE: DPS scions literally only single-target most of the time, so chain pulling isn't always the best unless you've got a murder AOE DPS like Dancer, etc. However, If you can cheese Graha-Thrancred into pulling an extra pack and are willing to AOE like mad, any of the healers will keep them alive. YoshiP has made it near impossible for an Avatar Tank/Healer combo to die. Trust me, I've tried. The DPS will also scale up/down their DPS based on your performance, but there's a "floor." If you try to AFK as DPS and/or just auto-attack/etc: it will take much longer. But performing "adequate" will lead to ~20 minute clear times (this is actually by design).

They gutted XP in "max level" dungeons, such as Paglathian or Matoya's Relict, but "leveling" dungeons (those in the X1-X9 level ranges) give great XP in EW zones.

[LadyTevar]

So, the basic thing is, on a double pull, providing your healer is competent:

No CDs (not even Blackest Night) while pulling mobs and grouping up, movement alone will mitigate. Blackest Night (TBN) as soon as they are grouped up. Damage spike is variable depending on if you have a WHM spamming Holy, which will give you ~ 8 seconds of mitigation. I let them get a few hits in after TBN and then Abysal Drain at ~ half HP to immediately heal myself back to full (shares a CD with Carve and Spit, so be careful). After that, you generally want to use your longest CDs first, to get the CDs cooling:
Shadow Wall (30% for 15 seconds) easily gets you into your next TBN. As DRK, ALWAYS bank 3000Mana, use the rest on Flood of Darkness for more damage.
After that, I usually combine CDs when cycling between them and TBN.
Reprisal + Arms Length. Be careful when you use Arms Length as the mobs have to HIT you for them to be slowed, so if the WHM is chain-stunning, Arms Length can be useless.
Rampart + Dark Mind/Dark Missionary. This depends on if mobs are using any kind of magic damage, which can be hard to gauge.
Past 82, you can also start cycling in Oblation. It's trash, but it's still 10%.

After that, if the pull goes on too long, you are completely at the mercy of your healer and DPS output to kill the mobs before they kill you or you survive long enough that cooldowns start coming back.

The issue isn't that DRK is hard, it's that a weak healer, literally, kills you AND forces you to near panic into overusing CDs in the moment: versus any other tank where no matter how good/bad the healer is, your pull is generally the same. Excepting maybe PLD because you have a powerful cast-time heal.

That's really good advice! I don't have as much problems with pulling the Mobs, it's the Boss fights that really have me sweating the CDs. I've had my CD run out just before having to run for a side (and not making it), and it's never fun. Especially when the safe side is all the way on the other side from where I pulled the Boss *sigh*.

Ok, don't quote me on this numberwise. But, yes. It's good XP, just like the meme of "if roulettes are done, queue for highest level dungeon as DPS and do FATEs while you wait." This is a newer option. First boss gives about 500k, second 800k, and last about 1.1mil. You get less gear drops, but you obv get them all: easy GC seals farming also to buy the 4.0 boxes for Mounts/Minions. It's how I'm leveling BLM cuz I have no idea how to play it well and don't care to learn. I'm still only barely up to 85 on all the Scions..... excepting Alisae.

NOTE: DPS scions literally only single-target most of the time, so chain pulling isn't always the best unless you've got a murder AOE DPS like Dancer, etc. However, If you can cheese Graha-Thrancred into pulling an extra pack and are willing to AOE like mad, any of the healers will keep them alive. YoshiP has made it near impossible for an Avatar Tank/Healer combo to die. Trust me, I've tried. The DPS will also scale up/down their DPS based on your performance, but there's a "floor." If you try to AFK as DPS and/or just auto-attack/etc: it will take much longer. But performing "adequate" will lead to ~20 minute clear times (this is actually by design).

They gutted XP in "max level" dungeons, such as Paglathian or Matoya's Relict, but "leveling" dungeons (those in the X1-X9 level ranges) give great XP in EW zones.

I've ran a couple dungeons as TRUST first, but I got stuck on Matoya's because while the NPCs were showing me where to stand to avoid AOEs, I didn't get the message about "ride water plume up to second level to stop Party Wipe".

Also, I could be wrong, but Alphinaud seems to prioritize healing Alisaie when you have them both in the party. Character-wise, that's a nice touch that he watches out for her, but I'm not getting healed as much and have wiped when I died.

[TheFeniX]

That's really good advice! I don't have as much problems with pulling the Mobs, it's the Boss fights that really have me sweating the CDs. I've had my CD run out just before having to run for a side (and not making it), and it's never fun. Especially when the safe side is all the way on the other side from where I pulled the Boss *sigh*.

There's no singular mechanic that will outright kill a tank in normal content, even if you don't pop mitigation, that isn't designed to kill anyone. The passive mitigation, including health, tanks have is insane compared to 2.0. I've seen DRKs in Puppet's Bunker at 16 stacks (before they capped them) just shrugging off hits.

So, the nice thing about DRK is "I don't know what's going on, but I get the feeling I'm doing it wrong and am about to take a ton of damage. Better use Blackest Night." It's the singular most powerful non-immunity defensive in the game and on a pretty short CD. If you're on unsure footing during a fight, you can just rely on normal defensives for tank busters and use TBN for when you're just completely lost. The amount of times I've been in voice chat on a new fight as PLD and said "Iiiiiiii don't know what's about to happen, so I'm just going to Hallowed Ground. Good luck to the rest of you" and then a shitload of people dying is.... pretty high. Unf, the CD is much longer than TBN.

As you get more experienced and comfortable with tanking, you're able to "drop back" and see the big picture. Thing is, tanking is IMO the easiest role in FFXIV (compared to it being fuckin' pod racing in WoW). As I said earlier, your passive mitigation lets you essentially ignore some mechanics that would one-shot DPS/Healers. FFXIV are mechanical treadmills: the boss itself has a rotation and very few actually deviant. Once you accept that you will make mistakes and instead focus on what you CAN do, rather than panicking (not sayin YOU specifically panic, it's just something I notice in a lot of tanks), it becomes a step-by-step process and leaves you plenty of time to absorb the bigger picture.... and notice that, for instance, other players about to get cracked.

I've ran a couple dungeons as TRUST first, but I got stuck on Matoya's because while the NPCs were showing me where to stand to avoid AOEs, I didn't get the message about "ride water plume up to second level to stop Party Wipe".

So the AI for ShB is far behind that of EW. The only ShB "expert" I've done as trust is Paglathan and that was only to get every class to 81 so I could move to EW dungeons. EW Avatars can show you pretty much all the mechanical doohickies needed to clear. But there are some mechanics in ShB that are not intuitive enough for Avatars to "explain by doing."

[LadyTevar]

I've ran a couple dungeons as TRUST first, but I got stuck on Matoya's because while the NPCs were showing me where to stand to avoid AOEs, I didn't get the message about "ride water plume up to second level to stop Party Wipe".

So the AI for ShB is far behind that of EW. The only ShB "expert" I've done as trust is Paglathan and that was only to get every class to 81 so I could move to EW dungeons. EW Avatars can show you pretty much all the mechanical doohickies needed to clear. But there are some mechanics in ShB that are not intuitive enough for Avatars to "explain by doing."

I did notice during the Elpis dungeon that the TRUST members were far more proactive. Good to know it's all the NPCS improved, gives me more trust in them.

I've also noticed when Tanking that it is pretty much "Stand there and keep Boss' attention, and avoid Ick". Which is far simpler than DPS, where I have panicked because "Wait, am I supposed to kill the adds? Why can't I hit that one, OW that hurt where'd that Ick come from?" Tanking is very simple compared to that. I'm also not getting 'lost' in hitting my combos like I do when playing Dragoon, I've missed the Ick warning because I was trying to get the Dragon's Eye stuff off.

[Steve]

As a tank, I've found that some awareness is useful if you've got abilities to buff/help party members, and bigger fights like the raids can have stuff like tank swap mechanics or tank-only stacks to look out for. Keeping ideal positions also comes into play, like some fights you might want a boss towards the edge, or towards the center.

[TheFeniX]

When things are going well in 99% of content, the only thing a tank needs to concern themselves is tank related stuff such as, as said, positioning and tank swap mechanics. Thing is, TAKING damage is counter-intuitive playing to a lot of players. It's usually the antithesis of gameplay. You're getting shot in a shooter? Take cover. Your front line is getting wrecked in and RPG, pull them back. In MMOs themselves (obv RPGs), the same concept applies to healers and DPS. A big part is understanding that there is only so much you can do and faith must be placed in the rest of the group if you're doing your job right.

Can I solo most dungeon bosses (hell, even some raid bosses) as Tank when shit goes 110% South? Sure yea, but I know the role and my class. I utilize 100% of my kit non-stop. Mostly out of boredom. On double trash pulls, if I make it to the boss with any CDs left... well, I'm not doing it right (except as WAR where Bloodwhetting and Equilibrium are literally all you need). Do you need to be that player? Prolly not. I'm a shitty MNK and NIN. I access ~90% of what the classes are capable of doing. IDGAF to do more and for the content I run/ran with them, that's fine.

Thing is, everyone wants to jump into a role (or anything really) and be on par with those who have done it for way too long. I mean, I laugh fuckin' hard at the 2435324534 reddit posts of "Tips for new Tanks?" Because HERE is how you tank:
1. Put on Stance
2. Make sure things are hitting you.
3. Profit.

Once you get over the dissonance that you are SUPPOSED to take damage in this role and that your Health Pool is a resource to be utilized. The game becomes that much easier. If you're tanking for weeks/months and can't intuitively figure out how to utilize your kit, no amount of reading is going to do you any good. You would be reading up on new tricks, that's it. Raid tanking is not for everyone. I've known multiple people who could not cut it, JUST as I could not cut it as a raid healer in WoW.

[Lord Revan]

Most poor tanks I've been in parties tend to manage their Health pools poorly though. Sure if you use Bloodwhetting and Equilibrium correctly FF14 Warriors are for all intents and purposes impossible to kill (I've also done a FC where we had no healer, granted that was by accident and with a pally tank but still we cleared the Dungeon without any wipes).

However if you manage your CDs poorly you'll end up in situation where you don't have those when you need them and yes it is quite possible for a Warrior to die even even without Vuln stacks. It all boils down to managing your Health pool correctly (and yes that does include predicting when a big hit comes so that you got enough health to not get 1 shotted).

Big part of Tanking in FF14 is also knowing what hits you can take and what you should not take.

That said there's no "I" in team (and nor there is "me", there's a "am" but that's not the same thing), so in the end there's rarely if ever only person who is "guilty" of the group not reaching their goals. Poor DPS might make the fights last too long, a poor healer might get the tank killed or lower the DPS due the damage dealers having to self heal instead of doing damage (or just dying).

[TheFeniX]

Here's the rub, I can't think of a single non-EX/Savage hit a tank can't take. Unmitigated. Not at this point in the game. In ARR, your passive mitigation was only your HP pool and armor. Paladins having WAY more armor until they normalized Shield Armor rating (making is useless). And instead just gave flat % mitigation to tanks, which is hilariously overpowered and also helps to homogenize tank class. Like, in SWTOR, the PvP spec for Guardian was better for tanking because the Defense tree gave resistance and armor which could not resist Internal Damage, which pretty much EVERY fuckin' tank buster was. So the % damage reductions were your only passive mit. BW didn't balance for people not being stupid and speccing Vigilance, so I could shrug of tank busters (on Nightmare Mode) like it was nothing.

WAR literally has 17 second windows where it's mortal in a trash fight. Bloodwhetting is on a 25 second CD, and lasts 8 seconds. Provided you line your GCD up to maximize hits. After that, you have left:
Rampart
Vengeance
Thrill of Battle
Equilibrium
Reprisal
Shake it Off (cuz I get what I want, and I like what seeeeeEEEE.)
Arm's Length

Shit isn't hard, you have buttons. Tons of them. And honestly, I've dealt with tanks double pulling and popping zip, zero, nada. And I can keep them up. It's painful, and I'm usually down to casting Cure2. But tanking just.... it isn't fuckin' hard. The idea of chain pulling in WoW and using nothing? I dunno how it is now, but in Cata > Early Legion: your rotation was your life. So... if you tried that, you would just evaporate, healer or no healer.

Boss fights are honestly even easier than trash. Literally, Vengeance (your 30%) for tank busters (maybe, if you're bored) and Shake it Off on raid wides just..... cuz bored. Look, I actually ENJOY the two EW EXs, but man they are fuckin' WEAK sauce (tank wise) to old EX content. It's ALL positioning. And you can survive Best Girl EXs double-buster with just your 30% and 20% mit, solo.

Versus Shiva Unreal where you needed to time CDs for max uptime during a weapon. Esp during staff, because the raidwides come later in that phase, so you wanna time Rampart and Reprisal to help yourself and the healers. And then, since Awareness is gone, you're also going to want something for Bow. Now, when you solo tank it, woof: you gotta work for it son. Oh, and you also have to consistently position her right, or she kills everyone.

[LadyTevar]

So far I see you talking Paladin and Warrior.

I'm using Dark knight.

[TheFeniX]

I used to main SCH and it's still a really good class. But I've monged WHM heals so much, it's hard to go back to a class that needs 3 buttons to do what WHM does in 1. While WHM is arguably one of the weaker healers, but it does great work for the bare minimum. That is now WAR for tanking. Honestly, I would still main PLD (or even GNB), but I already have the mounts. And I left WAR behind (as a serious tank) years ago. So, time to hammer it.

You're basically playing Tanking Savage right now as DRK. It's not even that DRK is bad. It's not, NO class is. They are all easily capable of downing content without being considered a "carry" by anything but the most crybaby of Savage parsing shitters. But here's the rub. Everything DRK does, every other tank does better outside raw damage. When it comes to self/party healing, DRK doesn't even rate. YoshiP changed the tank meta with EW and just didn't bother telling anyone on the DRK team about it.

Last night on the final story 90 dungeon, we lost the healer at 75% on the first two bosses. As WAR: Using Nascent Glint on CD, using it on the DPS back and forth, we cleared them with zero issue. Outside me fuckin' up once on the second boss and having nothing left to heal myself back up (boss went down when I was at 3% HP). The other tanks can do that with a bit more work. DRK cannot. It's self-sustain is non-existent comparatively.

Here's the other rub: healers can get lazy healing the other tank classes, esp with all the meme WARs out there who barely have to work to slam out metric tons of damage and self-healing. Then they get a DRK tank who.... can only slam out metric tons of damage and one baller heal (Abyssal Drain) every 90s.

You have a choice to make if tanking makes you uncomfortable.
1. Switch to another tank class. I would recommend WAR or to a lesser extent GNB. Their lower skill gap and more rounded set of CDs will make learning to calm yourself easier to ease into the role.
2. (recommended) If you enjoy the class. Continue to play DRK at this point in the game and power through to become comfortable. And then realize you got comfortable by playing Hard Mode tanking, and the other Tanks are so hilariously easy to survive as in comparison. I never switched to a class or spec I didn't like for numbers or mitigation or whatever. I only care that WAR is FUN for me for once in this game. So I'll mong it, until it isn't.

But there's no "trick" to tanking. There's nothing anyone can really teach you outside of basic shit like "stance: use aggro gen abilities such as "unmend." You're better off just running content with a tank you know is good at what they do (or randos) and just watching what they do. The only real advice I can give, and this goes back to my WoW raiding days, is this:
1. You will fuck up and people will die and it will be your fault. Whoop-di-fuckin' do, it's a video game. Also, yea healers gotta deal with that shit too.
2. Anyone giving you shit, esp DPS, can fuck off. I don't even let their comments rate. If DPS want to put on their big boy pants, they can decide to tank or heal.

[LadyTevar]

YES YES!! I BEAT THE GAME!!
Thank you Steve, for all the help!!

The Endcredits were wonderful, although I missed the "Tevar Tahalshia as Warrior of Light" because I was watching the Birdie fly by.

Then I went and beat the Lvl 80 Role quest for Tank (thank you Reddit, I had been running to the same tower as the NPC, and never thought of casting Blackest Night on the NPC when he was about to get hit hard).

Then I completed the Healer and Magical DPS Lvl 90 role quests and got that fancy Lvl 90 armor where I can dye it blue (each job is a different shade of Blue).

Then I went and picked up Dancer, because I'm a completionist and dammit I'm going to do the 80+ Ranged DPS as well as the Tank Role quest. The Tank is 80, but the Dancer will be a long slog from lvl 60.

THEN... I can go play my Alt that I switched from Ninja to Archer/Bard, who only just joined the Scions. Jhelian Tahalshia is Bard 30, Ninja 30, Botanist 25, and I'm gonna dye all her stuff GREEN! (i tried to fight Ninja. I could not get even the simple macros to work)

Or... maybe I will go make a new alt -- Nitram Tahalshia, a Rogedan Paladin/Blackmage.

[Lord Revan]

Just to warn you Dancer is one of those jobs it takes a while to get your full kit so there's a lot of times where you wonder "what am I suppose to do here" as the tempo of the class seems "off", granted it's not as bad as Reaper who don't even get a major part of their kit until level 80 and their burst window finisher at level 90 so that class feels really incomplete when doing lower level content.

[Mr Bean]

Just to warn you Dancer is one of those jobs it takes a while to get your full kit so there's a lot of times where you wonder "what am I suppose to do here" as the tempo of the class seems "off", granted it's not as bad as Reaper who don't even get a major part of their kit until level 80 and their burst window finisher at level 90 so that class feels really incomplete when doing lower level content.

I mean you don't get birds your most important skill until 986 but you get Standard Step at 15 and Fountainfall your last single target at 40, everything beyond that is just giving you more tools in the kit

Shield Samba your 10% damage reduction before a Raidwide at 56
Closed Position to give damage to a friend
And the rest are a mix of GCD's and saber damage your big damage up.

Maybe it's just me but Dancer really gelled with me, it's the class I main because it's so fun to be so constantly rewarded with pretty buttons that light up all nice.

[TheFeniX]

Dancer is fun even at 60, and only becomes more fun. It can also nuke Moogle EX in 30 seconds, so there’s that…..

The only class I think just levels “perfect” is Red Mage. I can’t think of any fat they could cut on it. Versus Dragoon which gets bloated to high hell IMO.

[Steve]

YES YES!! I BEAT THE GAME!!
Thank you Steve, for all the help!!

You're quite welcome.

The Endcredits were wonderful, although I missed the "Tevar Tahalshia as Warrior of Light" because I was watching the Birdie fly by.

I think you can rewatch it in Unending Journey? (The cutscene player in the inn rooms/living quarters in the major hub cities). It really was a nice touch.

Whatever their flaws, the FFXIV creative team cannot be accused of being unthoughtful towards their audience. Even when they make mistakes it's clear they value us.

Then I went and beat the Lvl 80 Role quest for Tank (thank you Reddit, I had been running to the same tower as the NPC, and never thought of casting Blackest Night on the NPC when he was about to get hit hard).

I figured there was a mechanics issue, I just didn't remember the fight well enough to figure out what.

Then I completed the Healer and Magical DPS Lvl 90 role quests and got that fancy Lvl 90 armor where I can dye it blue (each job is a different shade of Blue).

I love how the armor can be gotten at level 89 now, it just syncs up to level 90.

I also hope that whenever they do the relic weapon for this expansion they do it like Stormblood and make the initial steps, at least, a refinement of the class gear. I'd love to see Lightbringer (PLD sword) with glowy bits.

Then I went and picked up Dancer, because I'm a completionist and dammit I'm going to do the 80+ Ranged DPS as well as the Tank Role quest. The Tank is 80, but the Dancer will be a long slog from lvl 60.

The Ranged DPS role questline has some fun bits, yeah. But you'll probably need a week or two to get DNC to 85 to start it. The Big Four in the roulettes should get about 1.5-2 levels a day, minimum (THat is, Leveling, Alliance Raid, Main Scenario, and Frontline PvP). Definite 2 levels a day if you also do your tribal quests. Did you unlock the Ananta and Kojin ones yet?

The good news is DNC is very fun and arguably the best aimed class.

THEN... I can go play my Alt that I switched from Ninja to Archer/Bard, who only just joined the Scions. Jhelian Tahalshia is Bard 30, Ninja 30, Botanist 25, and I'm gonna dye all her stuff GREEN! (i tried to fight Ninja. I could not get even the simple macros to work)

Or... maybe I will go make a new alt -- Nitram Tahalshia, a Rogedan Paladin/Blackmage.

We could use more Roes.... says the guy who hasn't rolled any.

What's blocking you with Ninja, BTW? You only have the one mudra starting out so it's not like later where you've got all the different combinations of mudras to keep in your head. At that point everything else is basically your main combo IIRC.

Anyway, have fun with alts. I'm saving my re-play of the whole game run for 6.1 and the opening of the Trust system to the 2.0 dungeons. Maybe it's time I took Gwen (another alt, DRG main) through Heavensward after all, or maybe my Miqo'te (Ninja catgirl!) deserves some attention. I've barely played a lot of my alts these past couple years.

[TheFeniX]

Roes have... animation issues, IMO. It's the same reason I can't play a lot of races. MaleRa run speed doesn't match the animation. MaleRo run like they're holding a dump in. FemMidlanders are way too dainty. FemRoe are basically Lydia from Skyrim ( masculine run animation). They should consider adding animation "themes" much like cpose. Which is honestly not hard since all races outside lala and MaleRoth (IIRC) use the same meshes and animation rigs. And let's face it, Lala's have the best all around animation spread in the game.

Much like they applied a bunch of racial animations across the board to /cpose, they need to do the same with a ton of others, even if things like run animations are clientside only. This is not hard to do (don't ask me how I know) and it's not jank except for in the most extreme of poses, such as something like /stretch for Miqote applied to certain races with bigger arms.

The problem likely, as always with this engine, is expanding the arrays. So as a cut-through, they could use an animation selector/replacer, rather than actually expanding the options to include all at once.

I like that FFXIV broke me of dealing with alts. I would enjoy having the option of having a character option for my Brick Faced male Highlander "Me" character. But my BunGirl is just fine. What would be nice is a new fantasia, that allows you to have X number of presets. Think of them like Glam Plates: You pay $X dollars, and you get a slot unlock to slam a one-time appearance into. While this would jack with the naming conventions, oh well.

[LadyTevar]

Sir Nitram liked playing big bulky dudes with hearts of gold, so Roe was the default if I did it. He also loved his Paladin-type characters, and of course he was The Black Mage.

But that's for when I get FFXIV downloaded to the new laptop Main problem is I will have to get a new headphone set, because mine has the USB/Green/Pink audio plugs, and this laptop has a single plug

[LadyTevar]

Since I had to re-install, not only was the HUD fucked up, all my Gear Sets were gone, all the Crossbars were back to default, and now I need help getting Summoner set up right because of all the buttons are "If (x) happens, switch to button to (y)", and I keep winding up with the same copy in two-three different spaces.