NEWSFLASH: TOO BIG FOR BREAKING NEWS THREAD

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-04-02 10:25am

BAGHDAD DIVISION OF REPUBLICAN GUARD DESTROYED
3RD INF. DIV CROSSED TIGRIS RIVER
VANGUARD ELEMENTS OF 3RD I D 19 MILES FROM BAGHDAD

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... 3Apr2.html

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-04-02 10:26am

Care to post the article as a quote since none of us can read that.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-04-02 10:29am

The Washington Post wrote:By Luke Baker

SOUTH OF BAGHDAD, Iraq (Reuters) - U.S. forces smashed through elite Iraqi divisions to within 19 miles of Baghdad on Wednesday, using fearsome air power to back the swiftest advance of the war to oust President Saddam Hussein.

U.S. Marines seized a vital bridge over the Tigris River and then raced along its northern bank toward the Iraqi capital, while the 3rd Infantry Division thrust northward after encircling the Shi'ite Muslim shrine city of Kerbala.

A military source told a Reuters correspondent with the Third Infantry that vanguard units were just 19 miles from the southern edges of the capital. Some had crossed to the eastern bank of the Euphrates that lies on their route to Baghdad.

Forces pushing along the Tigris valley from the southeast were as near as 25 miles away, the source said.

"The dagger is clearly pointed at the heart of the Baghdad regime and will continue to be pointed at the heart of that regime," U.S. Brigadier General Vincent Brooks said.

However, Iraq dismissed as "illusions" reports that U.S. forces had crossed the Tigris or made gains anywhere else.

Brooks said the thrusts had taken some U.S. troops across a "red line" around Baghdad which the military believed could trigger a poison gas attack by Iraqi forces.

"If it's used, we'll be prepared for it being used," he said. "It causes us to maintain protective postures of our forces as they approach this area, but it doesn't make us stop."

The United States launched the war on March 20 to oust Saddam and rid Iraq of the weapons of mass destruction whose existence Baghdad denies. Invasion forces have yet to find any.

REPUBLICAN GUARD DIVISION "DESTROYED"

Brooks said U.S. troops had destroyed the Baghdad Division of the Republican Guard near the town of Kut, 105 miles southeast of Baghdad, and had fought two other Guard divisions.

Two huge American bombs exploded close to Kut, sending giant mushroom clouds into the air, Reuters correspondent Sean Maguire, traveling with the Marines, reported.

For the first time, B-52 bombers used six precision-guided 1,000-pound bombs spraying armor-destroying bomblets to stop an Iraqi tank column on Tuesday, the military said.

Bombs also hit central Baghdad, killing several motorists and hitting a Red Crescent hospital, Reuters correspondent Samia Nakhoul reported. She said at least five cars had been crushed, with their drivers burned to death inside.

Hospital sources said at least 25 people, including medical staff and patients, had been wounded in the daylight raids, which also pulverized buildings in a trade fair, next to a government security office which was not visibly damaged.

Iraqi Information Minister Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf said air strikes had killed 24 civilians and wounded 186 in the past 24 hours, with 10 dead and 90 wounded in Baghdad alone.

"No matter how many Iraqi civilians they kill, this will make us even stronger and even more determined to repel the invasion and to defeat them," Sahaf said.

On world markets, the rapid U.S. offensive pleased investors hoping for a speedy end to the war. Stocks and the dollar rose, oil tumbled and traditional safe haven assets fell sharply.

Two powerful U.S. columns are now closing on the capital from the south and southeast after an aerial bombardment that battered elite units guarding the city for more than a week.

SADDAM MEETING REPORTED

Iraqi television said Saddam met officials, including his two sons Uday and Qusay, but showed no footage of the meeting and there was no independent confirmation that it had occurred.

Two messages read on television for Saddam on Tuesday urged Iraqis to wage holy war on the invaders.

Long obsessed with his own security, the Iraqi leader hardly ever appears in public or on live television, contributing to persistent uncertainty about his whereabouts and health.

Soon after the television reported Saddam's meeting with officials, planes bombed one of his palaces in central Baghdad.

"It was a very powerful explosion," Reuters correspondent Nadim Ladki said as white smoke billowed from the area.

B-52s pummeled Iraqi frontlines near the city of Mosul and bombed targets near the oil hub of Kirkuk, Reuters correspondent Jon Hemming reported from Kurdish-held territory further north.

Helicopters and fighter planes strafed Fedayeen militia active in Najaf, another Shi'ite shrine city in central Iraq.

Reuters correspondent Kieran Murray, with the 101st Airborne, saw columns of smoke rise above Najaf after British Tornado aircraft bombed the ruling Baath Party headquarters.

Sahaf said Iraqi forces had fought off a U.S. attack on Najaf and accused the Americans of bombing shrines there.

A U.S. spokesman accused Iraqi forces in Najaf of firing from the gold-domed shrine of Ali, one of the holiest sites for Shi'ite Muslims. The Americans did not return fire, he said.

The advances on the Euphrates and Tigris, which flows through Baghdad, came after U.S. troops halted their push for the capital for several days to bolster vulnerable supply lines.

The commander of British forces in Iraq, Air Marshall Brian Burridge, said the decisive phase of the war had begun but might not end soon. "Decisive phases often take time," he said.

"We need to proceed with great delicacy in Baghdad as we did in Basra because we don't want to cause any more damage to the place than is necessary and we certainly don't want to add to civilian casualties."

He cited the tactics of British forces who have surrounded the southern city of Basra, staging a series of quick strikes into the center to kill or capture forces loyal to Saddam. They have held back from a frontal assault.

HEARTS AND MINDS

The British troops have been eager to win the trust of civilians, while repelling sporadic paramilitary forays.

Three British tanks fired on a building on the edge of Basra on Wednesday after three mortar rounds landed near a British checkpoint, Reuters correspondent Michael Georgy reported.

In the southern city of Nassiriya, where U.S. forces have faced tenacious resistance, Marines staged a decoy attack to cover the rescue of a U.S. woman soldier, Jessica Lynch, 19.

Special forces plucked her from a hospital where she had been held since her convoy was ambushed on March 23.

Lynch had two broken legs and a broken arm. The bodies of two U.S. soldiers were also recovered from the hospital.

Iraq says more than 650 civilians have been killed and more than 4,000 wounded during the war. Grisly television images of Iraqi casualties have fueled Arab anger over the invasion.

The United States has paid little heed to the diplomatic fallout from the Iraq conflict, but Secretary of State Colin Powell has begun a hastily arranged trip to heal bruised relations with allies in Turkey and the European Union.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-04-02 10:50am

It's not too big for breaking news at all. If I could merge it, I would.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2003-04-02 10:58am

This is what the US war machine is trained to do, and they do it very well indeed.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-04-02 11:02am

I'd be quite surprised if this isn't the typical over-enthusiastic reporting that has typified the war thusfar.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2003-04-02 11:08am

Vympel wrote:I'd be quite surprised if this isn't the typical over-enthusiastic reporting that has typified the war thusfar.

Also a valid point, shal wait a few hours (say til I wake up as it is 2:30am here)

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-04-02 11:18am

Vympel wrote:I'd be quite surprised if this isn't the typical over-enthusiastic reporting that has typified the war thusfar.

Seriously, I really think that it is becoming an issue. I am sick and tired of hearing things like the Battle for Baghdad has begun....trooops 40 miles from Baghdad. C'mon, the Battle for Baghdad happens when our troops are fighting in the suburbs of the city or actually in the city. The fucking cable news networks need to fill all this airtime so they also rework headlines that we have heard already earilier in the day to make it seem fresh. Its really annoying, I want accurate news not sensationalist nonsense.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-04-02 11:21am

Fox News wrote:"The Baghdad Division has been destroyed," said Brig. Gen. Vincent Brooks.

He said that two other Republican Guard divisions had been engaged around the city of Karbala and that coalition forces had seized control of a dam on Lake al-Milh.

de·stroy ( P ) Pronunciation Key (d-stroi)
v. de·stroyed, de·stroy·ing, de·stroys
v. tr.
1 To ruin completely; spoil: The ancient manuscripts were destroyed by fire.
2 To tear down or break up; demolish. See Synonyms at ruin.
3 To do away with; put an end to: “In crowded populations, poverty destroys the possibility of cleanliness” (George Bernard Shaw).
4 To kill: destroy a rabid dog.
5 To subdue or defeat completely; crush: The rebel forces were destroyed in battle.
6 To render useless or ineffective: destroyed the testimony of the prosecution's chief witness.

The General said it is destroyed, pretty damn hard to spin 'destroyed'. something either is destroyed or not destroyed.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-04-02 11:24am

Indeed, and a city is either captured, or it is not. Regardless, that's what Rumsfeld claimed.

Fox News on TV also just claimed that the Medina had been 'destroyed'. The only way to destroy a division is to encircle it and pound it into nothing. Anything less is rout/retreat.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-04-02 11:30am

Vympel wrote:Indeed, and a city is either captured, or it is not. Regardless, that's what Rumsfeld claimed.

Fox News on TV also just claimed that the Medina had been 'destroyed'. The only way to destroy a division is to encircle it and pound it into nothing. Anything less is rout/retreat.

agreed, the media is quite overdramtic in it's reporting, but this claim has not been made by a media anylist or anchor or reporter. it was made by Genreal Brooks, a person who actually knows the meaning of the words destroyed, degraded and routed in a millitary context.

Post by **Coyote** » 2003-04-02 01:10pm

Our own media, in its ham-handed attempts to look good and be on the military's "side" and not have its patriotism questioned, has gone too far-- it gets way too enthusiastic about things that cannot be confirmed or are still in the balance. Hence things like Basra, Umm-Qasr, and Nahariyya being taken several times in the minds of over enthusiastic reporters.

It ends up making our military look silly. The reporters don't want to be accused of the things that happened in Vietnam, where they appeared to be instrumental in the domonization of the US forces, but this has the opposite (and equally disheartening) effect.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-04-02 01:39pm

Stravo wrote: Seriously, I really think that it is becoming an issue. I am sick and tired of hearing things like the Battle for Baghdad has begun....trooops 40 miles from Baghdad. C'mon, the Battle for Baghdad happens when our troops are fighting in the suburbs of the city or actually in the city.

*thwaps Stravo with a copy of "The Last Battle" by Cornelius Ryan and
"Enemy at the Gates" by William Craig*

The Battle is begun, we're smashing thru the outer ring of resistance.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-04-02 01:55pm

MKSheppard wrote: The Battle is begun, we're smashing thru the outer ring of resistance.

Hey Shep, i'm hearing now that the Medina division has been routed. Thats 2 whole fucking divisions wasted! About 10,000 men, give or take in a division...thats a lot of dead. must have been one hell of a firefight.

Queeb Salaron · Post by **Queeb Salaron** » 2003-04-02 01:59pm

Col. Crackpot wrote:
MKSheppard wrote: The Battle is begun, we're smashing thru the outer ring of resistance.
Hey Shep, i'm hearing now that the Medina division has been routed. Thats 2 whole fucking divisions wasted! About 10,000 men, give or take in a division...thats a lot of dead. must have been one hell of a firefight.

Hot damn... I can see the light-green blips on that corny NightVision camera the the news stations have... Millions of them, most ending in the chests of Iraqi soldiers...

...Do Iraqis turn green when they get hit by those little glowing bullets?...

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2003-04-02 02:00pm

I love B-52s.

There's nothing like 144,000lbs of pure kiss your ass goodbye flying over head to ruin your day.

theski · Post by **theski** » 2003-04-02 02:13pm

To Think that they are 50 years old.. They are the real HAMMER OF THE GODS..

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-04-02 02:16pm

Can anyone see a time in the near future when they would have to be retired? That would be a damned shame, but think of that, this design has been SUCCESSFUL for half a century, how many military weapons have that kind of track record? (excluding warships since they are supposed to have long service records)

Queeb Salaron · Post by **Queeb Salaron** » 2003-04-02 02:23pm

Stravo wrote:Can anyone see a time in the near future when they would have to be retired? That would be a damned shame, but think of that, this design has been SUCCESSFUL for half a century, how many military weapons have that kind of track record? (excluding warships since they are supposed to have long service records)

::Shrugs:: Bullets. But even those have been refined. And they differ by an order of magnitude or two...

Landmines.

M-16s are gonna be up there eventually, methinks.

The officer's pistol: 9mm handgun. Been around for a long time.

And, of course, the old-fashioned 20mm cannon mounted on the back of a Jeep or Hummer.

Other than that, though...

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-04-02 02:29pm

Stravo wrote:Can anyone see a time in the near future when they would have to be retired? That would be a damned shame, but think of that, this design has been SUCCESSFUL for half a century, how many military weapons have that kind of track record? (excluding warships since they are supposed to have long service records)

The current estimate is that the last of the BUFFs will be retired around 2040 (unless a new, relatively inexpensive bomb truck gets delivered)

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-04-02 02:34pm

phongn wrote:
Stravo wrote:Can anyone see a time in the near future when they would have to be retired? That would be a damned shame, but think of that, this design has been SUCCESSFUL for half a century, how many military weapons have that kind of track record? (excluding warships since they are supposed to have long service records)
The current estimate is that the last of the BUFFs will be retired around 2040 (unless a new, relatively inexpensive bomb truck gets delivered)

2040?!?! that would make some of them almost 80 years old! holy crap!

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-04-02 02:50pm

us army: boo.
elite republican guard: eee!

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-04-02 03:42pm

Col. Crackpot wrote:
2040?!?! that would make some of them almost 80 years old! holy crap!

One plan called for some massive upgrades and keeping them till 2060...

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-04-02 03:43pm

I've seen these reports. But I don't believe them, while where not talking about very large divisions I doubt more then a fraction has been destroyed or captured, more likely the rest retreated.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-04-02 04:09pm

Okay.....

Just watching CNN recently, it sounds like the division or divisions are being considered combat ineffective by the US Army, which could either mean a major chunk was destroyed or simply that they scattered or some combination of the two.