Ukraine reacts to fears of Russian invasion as troops build up at the border

[Broomstick]

I don't see how being a woman of colour is relevant, but most of the argument was whataboutism - of course there are Nazis in Russia.

What is hopeful is that she pointed out how badly Right Sector and similar groups do in elections. The average Ukrainian wants nothing to do with that shit.

I think the relevancy is being of non-Ukrainian, non-Slavic, (arguably) non-European ethnicity means she has some basis to speak of how minorities are treated in Ukraine.

[Lord Revan]

Somethingof a dark thought came to me recently, there's only few countries Russia could realistically invade that are both near enough to the core regions of Russia that they would have something resembling a logistical base to do so and are not NATO members (so Russia could technically assume US wouldn't join the conflict as an invasion of a NATO member isn't really something US can safely ignore if they don't want to disband NATO).

Those being Armenia, Georgia and more importantly for me Finland (technically speaking Sweden isn't a NATO member either but only way Russia could realistically invade Sweden is either thru Finland or Norway and Norway is a NATO member) and Georgia and Armemia might too far or not important enough for Russia to bother.

[GuppyShark]

Finland is now approaching NATO, and now is certainly the time to do it - earlier would have been seen as provocation. Russia has its hands full and can't do much to retaliate.

That aside, Finland is a member of the European Union which does have mutual defence in its charter.

[Broomstick]

I think Armenia, Georgia, and Moldova are more likely targets than Finland at this point (although yes, Moldova would have to be through Ukraine). Being a EU member does provide Finland with some protection.

Nonetheless, I totally understand why Finland would be concerned about Russia. Hasn't Finland always been concerned about Russia? Now even more so.

[His Divine Shadow]

Finland is now approaching NATO, and now is certainly the time to do it - earlier would have been seen as provocation. Russia has its hands full and can't do much to retaliate.

That aside, Finland is a member of the European Union which does have mutual defence in its charter.

Finlands military is well funded, more advanced than Ukraines and has trained for this for 70 years. Given their showing in Ukraine I don't fear the russian invader scenario much even without NATO.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Finland is now approaching NATO, and now is certainly the time to do it - earlier would have been seen as provocation. Russia has its hands full and can't do much to retaliate.

That aside, Finland is a member of the European Union which does have mutual defence in its charter.

Finlands military is well funded, more advanced than Ukraines and has trained for this for 70 years. Given their showing in Ukraine I don't fear the russian invader scenario much even without NATO.

Especially if Finland has any more soldiers like the White Death!

[Highlord Laan]

Well, the Senate just passed a new Lend-Lease Act to help in Ukraine. While it would take months to train up Ukrainian forces on Western equipment, it would take much less time were the US to, say, start buying up old Soviet gear from nation around the world, replace them with newer Western models, then turn around "lend" that old Soviet gear to the Ukrainians while training up other units on Western machines.

Hell, South Korea has what, 35 or 40 new model T-80's Russia gave them as a debt repayment. Since they operate K2's anyway, think they'd be willing to trade for some new US-made stuff?

[Solauren]

I think it would be historically ironic, if not hilarious, if the US did that. Buy or trade for old Soviet gear, give it to the Ukraine, and the Ukraine uses it to hold off the more 'modern' successor to the Soviet military.

It wouldn't just be the 'nail in the coffin' of the discussion of Russian corruption and incompetence, it would be the bulldozer that filled in the grave.

[Captain Seafort]

I think it would be historically ironic, if not hilarious, if the US did that. Buy or trade for old Soviet gear, give it to the Ukraine, and the Ukraine uses it to hold off the more 'modern' successor to the Soviet military.

The Poles have been trying to persuade the US to do that for weeks - "give us F-35s, so we can give the Ukrainians our MiG-29s".

[Crazedwraith]

I think it would be historically ironic, if not hilarious, if the US did that. Buy or trade for old Soviet gear, give it to the Ukraine, and the Ukraine uses it to hold off the more 'modern' successor to the Soviet military.

The Poles have been trying to persuade the US to do that for weeks - "give us F-35s, so we can give the Ukrainians our MiG-29s".

Rather they want to swap their MiGs for american planes (older ones than f35s iirc) and have the americans give the migs to ukraine. They don't want to supply directly themselves.

[Captain Seafort]

Rather they want to swap their MiGs for american planes (older ones than f35s iirc) and have the americans give the migs to ukraine. They don't want to supply directly themselves.

If I had a border with Russia, I wouldn't want to give away my best kit without replacement either.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Another day, another war crime:
At least 50 killed after rockets hit Ukraine station evacuating civilians.

At least 50 people have been killed and 300 more wounded in a rocket strike on a train station being used to evacuate civilians in eastern Ukraine.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said Russian military attacked a train station in the city of Kramatorsk, in the eastern region of Donetsk.

Thousands of people were at the train station at the time preparing to head to safer regions, said the president, after officials urged residents to flee while they could ahead of a predicted new Russian offensive in the east.

Russian bombing of Borodyanka leaves countless civilians buried in own homes.

Distressing images and disturbing stories surrounding the massacre in Bucha shocked the world, but Ukrainian President Volodymyrr Zelenskyy has warned what has happened in Borodyanka is even worse.

An ITV News team travelled to the town around 30 miles north-west of Kyiv where they were met with scenes of devastation.

The team saw blocks of flats ripped apart by Russia missiles, striking without warning and wreaking devastation.

Walls could be seen ripped off buildings where tables were set and last meals were uneaten.

Those who have died in assaults on the region are still being counted, with 30 people being found in the past three days.

However, officials believe that at least 100 people had sought refuge in their basements when Russia's bombs fell.

Emergency service workers are currently searching through the debris without the expectation of finding anyone alive underneath the rubble.

[GuppyShark]

I think Armenia, Georgia, and Moldova are more likely targets than Finland at this point (although yes, Moldova would have to be through Ukraine). Being a EU member does provide Finland with some protection.

Nonetheless, I totally understand why Finland would be concerned about Russia. Hasn't Finland always been concerned about Russia? Now even more so.

Did you catch the press conference the Belarusians did where they (deliberately or not) had in the background a warplan involving Russian forces capturing Ukraine and Moldova? If Ukraine had collapsed, it would be a logical extension.

[Solauren]

Did you catch the press conference the Belarusians did where they (deliberately or not) had in the background a warplan involving Russian forces capturing Ukraine and Moldova? If Ukraine had collapsed, it would be a logical extension.

As far as I am concern, Anyone bordering Russia (specially near the Ukraine) or the Ukraine itself needs to move to high military alert.
Simply put - I don't think Putin is going to stop with Ukraine. Even if he is not successful, he'll probably claim "Ukrainian elements have escaped our justice into (whatever country) so we are pursing them."

[Lord Revan]

Finland is now approaching NATO, and now is certainly the time to do it - earlier would have been seen as provocation. Russia has its hands full and can't do much to retaliate.

That aside, Finland is a member of the European Union which does have mutual defence in its charter.

Finlands military is well funded, more advanced than Ukraines and has trained for this for 70 years. Given their showing in Ukraine I don't fear the russian invader scenario much even without NATO.

To be honest I fear more becoming one of the nameless dead then Russia actually defeating Finland in a war.

[Lord Revan]

Did you catch the press conference the Belarusians did where they (deliberately or not) had in the background a warplan involving Russian forces capturing Ukraine and Moldova? If Ukraine had collapsed, it would be a logical extension.

As far as I am concern, Anyone bordering Russia (specially near the Ukraine) or the Ukraine itself needs to move to high military alert.
Simply put - I don't think Putin is going to stop with Ukraine. Even if he is not successful, he'll probably claim "Ukrainian elements have escaped our justice into (whatever country) so we are pursing them."

I'd say it depends, Putin might stop though not thru kindness of his heart but simply because mercs don't fight if you don't pay them or can you buy food, ammo or fuel for your conscripts if you got no money to do so and the Russian economy has gone down the toilet (I dunno it that's true yet but it does look like it's heading towards that direction).

Even Putin is limited to acting within reality as much as he wished to do otherwise.

Also "You'll get the loot (or share of it) after the fact" isn't gonna work as well these days as the cost of running a war is generally way more then any wealth you might get from short term looting.

[wautd]

After already disbanding Memorial Society earlier this year (because they said bad things about Stalin), Putin's regime just kicked out Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch.

[Broomstick]

Did you catch the official reason for doing so? According to Putin's government those entities were kicked out because they "violated" Russian law. That is, they refused to take the Kremlin line, called a war a war, pointed out Russian atrocities, and otherwise told the truth. Of course they had to go.

[Lord Revan]

Did you catch the press conference the Belarusians did where they (deliberately or not) had in the background a warplan involving Russian forces capturing Ukraine and Moldova? If Ukraine had collapsed, it would be a logical extension.

As far as I am concern, Anyone bordering Russia (specially near the Ukraine) or the Ukraine itself needs to move to high military alert.
Simply put - I don't think Putin is going to stop with Ukraine. Even if he is not successful, he'll probably claim "Ukrainian elements have escaped our justice into (whatever country) so we are pursing them."

Well I doubt even Russians aren't stupid enough to try to attack another country thru Ukraine at least before this current conflict is over (as that would be one hell of an exposed flank just begging to be turn attacked). Now had Ukraine folded like it was probably Kremlin's plan sure then it could make sense but as long as there's fighting in the Ukraine it wouldn't be at all wise for Russians to plan attacking things not directly at their border.

[Lord Revan]

Did you catch the official reason for doing so? According to Putin's government those entities were kicked out because they "violated" Russian law. That is, they refused to take the Kremlin line, called a war a war, pointed out Russian atrocities, and otherwise told the truth. Of course they had to go.

To be fair they probably did violate Russian laws since it wouldn't surprise me at all if there was a law against questioning the official "truth" given by the Kremlin.

[Solauren]

Well I doubt even Russians aren't stupid enough to try to attack another country thru Ukraine at least before this current conflict is over (as that would be one hell of an exposed flank just begging to be turn attacked). Now had Ukraine folded like it was probably Kremlin's plan sure then it could make sense but as long as there's fighting in the Ukraine it wouldn't be at all wise for Russians to plan attacking things not directly at their border.

And since when as something being stupid prevented someone like Putin from doing something?

[Lord Revan]

Well I doubt even Russians aren't stupid enough to try to attack another country thru Ukraine at least before this current conflict is over (as that would be one hell of an exposed flank just begging to be turn attacked). Now had Ukraine folded like it was probably Kremlin's plan sure then it could make sense but as long as there's fighting in the Ukraine it wouldn't be at all wise for Russians to plan attacking things not directly at their border.

And since when as something being stupid prevented someone like Putin from doing something?

There's stupid and there's Stupid, it's one thing to do something that has a high chance of backfiring and totally another to do a thing that can't do pretty much anything else then to backfire on you.

[Captain Seafort]

To be fair they probably did violate Russian laws since it wouldn't surprise me at all if there was a law against questioning the official "truth" given by the Kremlin.

There is.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Well thanks to the existence of Kaliningrad, both Poland and Lithuania share a border with Russia. Not that Russia could actually defend it from invasion without going through northeast Poland from Belarus to form a land corridor, and to do that they would have to take the Polish city of Suwałki.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

It's been pointed out that the total cost of the military aid sent to Ukraine so far is equal to how much the EU pays for Russian fuel every day. The problem is Germany whose kneejerk reaction to Fukushima by shutting down all their nuclear plants has left them hopelessly dependent on Russian energy.