Anyone else watching Obi-Wan Kenobi?(Spoiler thread)

[NecronLord]

Mercy from the same Obi-Wan who expected Luke to kill his own father?

Yes. Obi-Wan knows it must be done but can't bring himself to do it. If he was detached, if it wasn't Anakin, just some other Sith lord, his answer to 'Are you here to destroy me' would probably be 'Yes.'

[Galvatron]

Now I have to wonder why the Emperor decided to rein in Vader at the end. Did Obi-Wan not just demonstrate that he continues to be a legitimate threat? Why intentionally allow him to remain at large?

If I'm being generous, I might think Palpatine was using the threat of surviving Jedi as bogeymen to justify his continuous military buildup to the Senate. Hell, it wouldn't surprise me if he even had the ISB conduct false flags against Imperial targets in the name of known Jedi survivors.

The problem is, no writer (that I'm aware of) has ever suggested such a thing.

[Gandalf]

Perhaps the Emperor decided that Obi-Wan will most likely try to remain in hiding, and that if they try to engage him, he'll be more trouble that he's worth.

[Lonestar]

Excellent ending.

Deborah Chow directed/produced every episode and she killed it with this series. The Cinematography alone was fantastic.

Got a little choked up when Vader was wheezing and Kenobi realized Anakin was truly dead.

[Lord Revan]

Mercy from the same Obi-Wan who expected Luke to kill his own father?

Yes. Obi-Wan knows it must be done but can't bring himself to do it. If he was detached, if it wasn't Anakin, just some other Sith lord, his answer to 'Are you here to destroy me' would probably be 'Yes.'

Yeah think of it like Anakin being on life support but mortally injured in way that the machines are the only thing keeping him "alive" and killing Vader as turning of said life support, rationally speaking Obi-wan knows what needs to be done, but at the same time the irrational side of his personality is still holding on the hope that maybe just maybe his friend can recover and come back.

It's a fool's hope for sure but you got to remember that Obi-wan has lost pretty much everything, most of his friends and Jedi order that was his de facto family gone, his home is now the imperial palace so it's gone as well. When we remember this we can probably understand him for wanting to cling unto what ever shreds of this former life he can even if doing so is irrational.

[RogueIce]

Now I have to wonder why the Emperor decided to rein in Vader at the end. Did Obi-Wan not just demonstrate that he continues to be a legitimate threat? Why intentionally allow him to remain at large?

Obi-Wan was Vader's obsession, Vader's nemesis and Vader's desire to kill. Not Palpatine. Palpatine probably doesn't give a single fuck about any lone surviving Jedi, even Yoda, except as a background threat to keep his hold on power. Sure if they pop up their heads they get smashed down, but otherwise? Not worth the trouble. There are (disposable) Inquisitors for that, anyway.

Anyway, Palpatine reining in Vader was all about...reining in Vader. A hunt for Obi-Wan was Vader being independent. Palpatine wasn't gonna have that. If it means letting Kenobi go to keep Vader in his place, so be it.

[bilateralrope]

Now I have to wonder why the Emperor decided to rein in Vader at the end. Did Obi-Wan not just demonstrate that he continues to be a legitimate threat? Why intentionally allow him to remain at large?

For 10 years Obi-Wan wasn't a threat. Then Reva provoked him into coming out of hiding by targeting Leia. So Palpatine is probably thinking that as long as Leia gets left alone, Obi-Wan will stay in hiding.

[Solauren]

Also, right then and there, Vader was not ready to fight Obi-wan. That was pretty obvious.

However, leaving Obi-wan alive and 'off limits', gives Vader a reason to train even harder to get to the point where he can steam-roll Kenobi.

In short, the Emperor was making Kenobi a legitimate goal for Vader, instead of an unhealthy and dangerous obsession.

[NecronLord]

Now I have to wonder why the Emperor decided to rein in Vader at the end. Did Obi-Wan not just demonstrate that he continues to be a legitimate threat? Why intentionally allow him to remain at large?

If I'm being generous, I might think Palpatine was using the threat of surviving Jedi as bogeymen to justify his continuous military buildup to the Senate. Hell, it wouldn't surprise me if he even had the ISB conduct false flags against Imperial targets in the name of known Jedi survivors.

The problem is, no writer (that I'm aware of) has ever suggested such a thing.

Quite possibly Palpatine knows that deep down, Obi-Wan's hopes are true. Luke was able to sense it.

Particularly if the Emperor has any thought or doubt that Padme's kids may be alive (and honestly I wouldn't be surprised if he commissioned an exhumation and anaylsis) despite his lies, then he should be at least somewhat concerned that Vader may become unreliable. Palpatine knows that Anakin's first loyalty was always family, him second and the Jedi third.

Obi-Wan alone may not be a threat. Obi-Wan and the Chosen One on the other hand. Palpatine doubtless fears Vader defecting, to be a sith in both old and new canon is to become consumed by fear and paranoia. He is wise to keep Vader away from Obi-Wan, and keep him discipining random military officers and politicians.

Incidentally watching ESB, and seeing Palpatine talk about "He could destroy us [...] The Son of Skywalker must not become a Jedi" - it occurs to me that Palpatine must be very much afraid of Luke in the Disney canon as we know that the whole reason for the 'Shroud of the Darkside' was local to Jedi trained on Coruscant - without it Palpatine would potentially be facing a much more serious opponent if Luke attained true mastery. Palpatine has never encountered an unclouded Jedi Master... and he knows he hasn't.

[Galvatron]

I can't get over how insipid the soundtrack was. Glad to see there are others who agree...

[Elfdart]

Meh. A boomer rant.

Too bad the kids grew up enjoying the prequels and basically ignores what people like you tried to enforce what Star Wars fans should or should not like.

It's a good thing voices like yours is becoming a minority now with time. Your kind of attitude got us the Star Wars sequels.

Is this the first "OK Boomer" in SDN history? Well done!



I watched the series. Like Solo, it was created by people who didn't pay much attention to the movies, but who think they need to fill in "plot holes" that were never really there. As Nerdonymous said in his pithy manner:

As it turns out, it's not George Lucas who doesn't understand the plots of his movies, it's that you don't.

Apparently, they felt the need to explain how Leia knows about Obi-Wan. In the hologram in ANH, she knows his name and knows where to find him because he served her father in the past. They think it's a "plot hole" that when Luke barges into her cell on the Death Star, tells her he's there to rescue her, he's got her R2 unit and refers to the old Jedi as Ben Kenobi that she could put 2+2 together. Now writers of fan fiction, posts on fan sites, and clickbait columnists might need every detail explained step by step, but normies don't.

A few other issues:

So much for Bail Organa watching Leia and Obi-Wan Kenobi watching Luke.

Qui-Gonn gets stabbed in the gut and dies. Two inquisitors get run through (one by an angry Darth Vader) and neither are killed. Are the new red lightsabers defective or something?

The moment I saw Indira Varma's name, I knew she was a goner. A few years ago, I dubbed her the female Sean Bean since she gets killed in every movie or TV show she appears on. The only time her character lived was in Kama Sutra: A Tale of Love a brilliantly photographed historical/soft porn epic -though she's forced to watch as her boyfriend is pulled apart by elephants. Someone give her a role with a happy ending!

The shots of the ships in space are really chintzy. Just use stock footage from the movies if you can't do any better.

Wait, Kenobi and the Larses are now friendly? I guess he pisses them off again over the next ten years since Owen tells Luke that Ben is "just a crazy old man". Oh, and Luke doesn't recognize a lightsaber in Ben's living room after having a red one waved in his face as a child?


That said, the series was entertaining in spite of these glaring flaws. It was fun to see Ewan McGregor, who like Alan Bates has more charisma than the big screen can often contain, take over the small screen in spite of the dumbing down of his character. Hayden Christiansen and Joel Edgerton were also very good, considering how little screen time they got. The little girl who plays Leia was also good. It was also nice that James Earl Jones got his voice back because he sounded terrible in Rogue One.

[Darth Yan]

Meh. A boomer rant.

Too bad the kids grew up enjoying the prequels and basically ignores what people like you tried to enforce what Star Wars fans should or should not like.

It's a good thing voices like yours is becoming a minority now with time. Your kind of attitude got us the Star Wars sequels.

Wait. What?

I'm twenty one. I was born after Phantom Menace. I DID grow up with the prequels, I used to LOVE Revenge of the Sith. But they are as close to objectively bad storytelling as you can get, and so I hate them now. Not for ruining Star Wars, but because they are bad movies.

What about that thinking brought us the sequels? The problem has been the same for both trilogies, people with no creativity and no respect for consumers thought they knew what good Star Wars, or good storytelling, should be. The sequels wouldn't have been good any way you slice it, because the wrong people were in charge. It ended up being nothing but derivative nonsense that religiously aped the appearance of the originals while containing none of what made them actually good, but if the reaction to the prequels had been good, then it would have been some other heartless mush with no feeling whatsoever.

Rogue One was how it's done. Same with 2003 Clone Wars, and little bits of 2008 Clone Wars if you isolate them from context. Because actually creative people were allowed to run free and tell a story, not write the script calculated to wring the most money from our pockets.

Have you got any actual quarrels with things I said? Or just a handwave and dismissal as the mad ravings of an entitled fan from another time?

I may not hate it as much as you do since my enthusiasm for Star Wars has never really recovered since 1999, but I couldn't disagree with a single thing you said.

In fact, I want to read about the "hundred more little things." There must be something we'd disagree on.

Lol, I appreciate the ego boost. Well, here's everything else I thought was dumb.

The meat harvesting assembly line Kenobi works in. They show a curious lack of haste, don't you think? It was moderately interesting the first day, but then they come back to the same animal for two more days? No visible relief shift? Wouldn't they have only a little time to harvest meat before it spoils?

When the Inquisitors arrive on Tatooine. This is a scummy backwater, far from the authority of the Empire. Maybe they DON'T all instantly recognize the Inquisitors and bow in fear.

Where was the scum and villainy, for that matter? Where were the gruff types who grudgingly cooperate with Imperials, only when credits are involved?

The timeline was already fucked up by the prequels, but if Darth Vader isn't even the only guy in black armor with a lightsaber and telekinesis, then Admiral Motti's interaction with him is pretty fuckin dumb. I'm okay with Inquisitors, mind you, but they should be a pretty secretive thing. They work in the shadows, and they CERTAINLY aren't famous enough to be instantly recognized on Tatooine. Especially if they're aliens.

Other Jedi schmuck. He was pretty boring. He still dressed like a Jedi. He did not at all seem like the kind of guy to evade a galactic-scale manhunt for ten years. He might have looked tougher or been smarter or SOMETHING.

Why did Kenobi have to be convinced to dig up his lightsabers? The point of his continued existence after ROTS is to train Luke to one day destroy his father and the Empire. Meaning he still needs lightsabers. This gets back to the bigger point, which is that I don't think Kenobi needs any more character arc than he has already had, such as realizing that the galaxy does still need Jedi.

Princess Leia's scenes were a little offensive, honestly. Making absolutely clear that she is royal, and her life is better because of it.

Kumail Nanjiani's character. Is that really the best hustle he can come up with? Pretend to be one of the most wanted men in the galaxy to earn a few credits? Why does he need to pretend to use telekinesis and mind tricks, couldn't he just tell people he has an inside guy and sell passage the regular way? The kid he works with just needs to say "Jedi" to the wrong guy ONCE, and then they both end up shot or in an Imperial prison without trial. It's like pretending to be a Jew in 1943 Germany; there is no reason to, and it just puts a HUGE target on your head.

Darth Vader's suit-up scene. It was really cool, until they put his helmet on. The mask is a separate piece from the top, but they put it on in one go. Why? It didn't affect the scene at all, it just was a miss on an extremely basic technical detail.

Why did they design ANOTHER Imperial shuttle for the Inquisitors to use? Every Star Wars show and movie is addicted to using the same characters and inventing new equipment, when it should be the other way around. Everything in the OT looks old, but it's hard to see how it GOT old when they invent new shit every six months. Also, the new shuttle design was way more slick and sleek than the regular Imperial Shuttle, the same disease every new model has. Krennic's shuttle in Rogue One was particularly guilty.

Vader doesn't sit down, he just perpetually paces or stands menacingly. And when he sits, he DEFINITELY doesn't sit in huge thrones. I love the concept of his Mustafar palace, but they screwed up with the throne.

The amount of carnage Vader caused walking down the street was a little excessive. I get that he's supposed to be evil, but he's a MEASURED evil. The Inquisitor lady who we're told in the first episode is off her rocker is the one who just randomly slaughters people while walking down the street.

It took Kenobi and Vader a while to detect each other, don't you think? The sensed each other from MILES apart on the Death Star, but when they finally meet, they don't realize until they're a few hundred feet distant.

Quinlan Vos signed his name on the wall of the safe house, as did other Jedi. First, it implies that a HUGE number of Jedi evaded Order 66 and makes one wonder why Yoda and Kenobi spent so much effort on Luke. Couldn't they have rounded up those dozens of already-trained Jedi and attached them to the Rebel Alliance? Might ONE of them have joined the Rebellion before ANH? Second, that's great security, again. All it takes is for that ONE safe house to get busted, and there's a record of every Jedi who went through it. Importance is immediately ratcheted up from "we caught a Jedi here" to "we might catch EVERY Jedi here."

Stupid fight scene between Kenobi and the stormtroopers outside the laser gate. He very obviously reaches for his blaster, and neither of the two troopers shoot him? What were they waiting for? Why did they flinch out of the way when he shot the probe droid? And why is he even good with a blaster at all? I don't think he should have been troubled by a squad of stormtroopers, but there are ways to get him through it while still portraying the stormtroopers as a competent force to be feared.

Three foot tall laser gate, that you could easily go around. It isn't the focus of the episode, but it wouldn't be hard to design it to not be eye-catchingly silly.

Leia waffles between the intelligence of a five-year-old and the wisdom of a Jedi. Obi-Wan really can't convince a ten year old that he isn't hiding anything? But at the same time, she just blabs on and on in public that he has a lightsaber and is a Jedi? Why would he even show her that? She has no need to be privy to that information. She is going to be under close Imperial scrutiny for her entire life, and if at ANY point she lets slip that she was rescued by a man with a lightsaber, she and her whole family die or are imprisoned and mind-raped to give him up.

Why do the Inquisitors know that Anakin and Darth Vader are the same person? Vader himself barely acknowledges that fact, you think he would make sure that his attack dogs know it? The Emperor actively wants to DESTROY the existence of Anakin, so why would HE tell? And why would the story of Anakin and Obi-Wan's clash be common knowledge, either? Or their relationship? The Jedi Order was wiped out, its records destroyed. There is no reason for any Inquisitors to know anything about Anakin.

Not so much a problem, just wishful thinking on my part: I wish we would see Vader or Kenobi thrash one of the Inquisitors. They get built up to be total badasses, then just get destroyed on a whim by a real Jedi or Sith. Like the fight between Ventress and Dooku in Tartakovsky's Clone Wars.

Anyway, this is all the whining I've got. Pretty much all of this would have been acceptable if the rest of the show was good, or if they were spread out over ten episodes instead of just three. But it isn't, so these piss me off even more. Someone argue with me over some of these, I fucking love arguing.

You have the arrogant "my way or the high way" attitude. The prequels are flawed but I can understand what Lucas wanted to do. You don't seem willing to give any quarter.

[ray245]

Wait, Kenobi and the Larses are now friendly? I guess he pisses them off again over the next ten years since Owen tells Luke that Ben is "just a crazy old man". Oh, and Luke doesn't recognize a lightsaber in Ben's living room after having a red one waved in his face as a child?

Having a concussion as a 10 year old is hardly going to help him remember what happened.

Qui-Gonn gets stabbed in the gut and dies. Two inquisitors get run through (one by an angry Darth Vader) and neither are killed. Are the new red lightsabers defective or something?

Revenge does wonder for the will to live. We have a history of darksiders surviving fatal blows out of pure spite.

[Lord Revan]

Also did Luke ever saw Reva use her lightsaber, by the time they're alone in the cave Luke's out cold so he wouldn't remember anything about that.

[Elheru Aran]

Revenge does wonder for the will to live. We have a history of darksiders surviving fatal blows out of pure spite.

Considering that afaik Clone Wars is still canon... Darth Maul survives being cut quite literally in half. Pretty sure a lightsaber to the gut isn't that much of a barrier to survival in comparison. Qui-gon dying from it is a bit odd, but then, maybe it takes the whole "stewing in hatred" shtick to pull off. Goes a long way to explaining how Anakin survives being turned into something comparable to a hot-dog that's fallen in a campfire, as well.

[ray245]

Considering that afaik Clone Wars is still canon... Darth Maul survives being cut quite literally in half. Pretty sure a lightsaber to the gut isn't that much of a barrier to survival in comparison. Qui-gon dying from it is a bit odd, but then, maybe it takes the whole "stewing in hatred" shtick to pull off. Goes a long way to explaining how Anakin survives being turned into something comparable to a hot-dog that's fallen in a campfire, as well.

The best explanation for Qui-Gon is simply he's not a Sith. Unlike Sith who sought to cling on to life in any shape or form, Jedi teaching embrace being a part of the living force upon their passing.

Qui-Gon as the Jedi that first discover a way to live on as a force ghost is likely to have embraced this idea. I mean look at how Obi-Wan and Yoda ended up as force ghosts. They embraced their death. Yoda's message to Anakin in ROTS about not worrying about finding ways to keep someone alive is essentially the Jedi philosophy.

[Darth Yan]

In both the films and EU people who survived initial stabbings were so hopped up on rage the dark side was keeping them alive

[Lord Revan]

In legends we even got Darth Sion who was essentially a walking corpse kept alive by nothing but the Dark Side of the Force (he's from KOTOR2).

Spoilers for KOTOR 2 just in case Spoiler

In fact the way you beat Darth Sion is having him let go of his anger and let nature take its course, since trying to beat him conventionally is a pointless effort as the Dark Side will make sure he'll survive anything you can throw at him, even though the pre-existing injuries he has should have caused him to die ages ago.

So Dark Siders surviving injuries that should by all rights killed them isn't something new for this series, though it will be interesting to see if Reva will survive now that she's let go of her anger.

[ray245]

In legends we even got Darth Sion who was essentially a walking corpse kept alive by nothing but the Dark Side of the Force (he's from KOTOR2).

Spoilers for KOTOR 2 just in case Spoiler

In fact the way you beat Darth Sion is having him let go of his anger and let nature take its course, since trying to beat him conventionally is a pointless effort as the Dark Side will make sure he'll survive anything you can throw at him, even though the pre-existing injuries he has should have caused him to die ages ago.

So Dark Siders surviving injuries that should by all rights killed them isn't something new for this series, though it will be interesting to see if Reva will survive now that she's let go of her anger.

She probably got some medical attention on her trip to Tatooine or afterwards.

[wautd]

Why did they design ANOTHER Imperial shuttle for the Inquisitors to use?

Because it can be turned into more toys afterwards

Personally I think that the finale was a bit of a mess. While it had some good things, it had some awful editing and writing as well. Especially the beginning of the episode instantly broke my suspension of disbelief.
Reva finds a way to get of the planet, getting time to heal her mortal wound and get to Tatooine? OK. This would take weeks, if not months right? Even if I'd be generous and use Hollywood movie healing speeds, this would still take a few days at least.

But then we have the rebel transport with Obi-Wan being chased by an ISD. We find out that the chase is still ongoing when Reva arrives on Tatooine.
Unless Reva managed to heal and get to Tatooine in mere hours, am I supposed to believe that the rebel transport is being chased by an ISD for DAYS?!? In those days, the ISD couldn't outrun a generic transport ship (despite being in the same league of a fricking Corellian Corvette), nor hit the transport ("increase firepower" ), nor anyone on board getting the idea to launch all the TIE fighters they have on board (you know, which could be better suited to disable the transport instead of accidentally blowing it up with a Turbolaser in case Vader wanted to kill Obi-Wan himself). That was just atrocious writing

I also wished that the Obi-Wan and Vader fight would have been one big scene instead of broken up by less interesting scenes.

[ray245]

Reva finds a way to get of the planet, getting time to heal her mortal wound and get to Tatooine? OK. This would take weeks, if not months right? Even if I'd be generous and use Hollywood movie healing speeds, this would still take a few days at least.

You're thinking they are normal humans. Darksiders have shown time and time again they aren't normal humans.

[Broomstick]

Gut "shots", and belly wounds in general, are crap-shoots.

It's possible to be wounded in the belly and have the weapon/projectile/whatever miss all vital organs, or at least not fatally damage anything, and the person survive. This has happened to people in real life (actress Charisma Carpenter, for example, fell onto and was impaled by rebar as a child, which is why you almost never see her in belly-baring outfits). Or, if you lacerate the liver, or hit the descending aorta, the person can die in just a minute or two. And everything in between.

Maybe Qui-Gon had his descending aorta sliced and he couldn't react fast enough to survive it. Maybe Head Inquisitor and Third Sister had wounds that failed to intersect anything too vital. I'm assuming Star Wars medical tech can handle peritonitis with no trouble. Lose some intestines? Hell, we can survive that with our tech. I mean, it's not fun, but it's survivable.

So, sure, one person can get skewered and survive and another with a superficially similar wound may not.

[Gandalf]

Why did they design ANOTHER Imperial shuttle for the Inquisitors to use?

Because it can be turned into more toys afterwards :wink:

Interestingly, there's a fun procurement based answer there. If the Empire places an order for shuttles with a commercial supplier, they may have to settle for what's on the shelf. The shuttle company presumably releases new models each year or so as models advance and improve. So if the Imperial Public Service has a centralised procurement department, they may apportion each year's new models based on perceived priority. If the Inquisitors are directly under the Emperor, it makes sense for the IPS to always give them the shiny new equipment. Someone gets their used shuttles, and so on. Lowest on the hierarchy, like some Outer Rim outpost might be using old shuttles held together with patchwork repairs and hope until the latest castoffs make it in. If it's not centralised, then it's likely to be far more chaotic.

Eventually some hardware is sold as ex-government to civilian markets, helping the balance sheet a bit.

[Galvatron]

If new shuttles are released every year, I find it curious that VIPs like Vader and Palpatine are still flying around in Lambdas some 13 or 14 years later during the events of ROTJ.

[Batman]

'New' doesn't always mean 'better' (hence the disasters that are the Osprey and the F-35).