Britain's artificial creations are failing

[Spice Runner]

Well, there's that bit where they started up citizenship reform in a way that disproportionately targets Muslim communities in the middle of a surge in anti-Muslim violence and rhetoric...

But do tell me how that's just propaganda.

The CAA law fast-tracks citizenship of Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Jain, Parsi and Christian immigrants from Afghanistan, Pakistan and Bangladesh who arrived in India before 2015. The law has not yet been implemented yet though passed by parliament. Yes it does not include or Muslim immigration from Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan.

Tell me again how this leads to India going for genocide?

You do know that are over 200 million voting Muslim citizens in India?

The CAA establishes religion as a basis for citizenship and excludes Muslims from that basis, paired with the (funny how you decided to only focus on the CAA here) the NPR and NRC, and comes on the back of a process that systematically and discriminatorily targeted Muslims as ineligible for citizenship. The CAA, together with the NPR and NRC, targets Muslims as ineligible for membership in the body politic specifically on the basis of religion in doing so, and that's come at the same time as - and I note that you decided to ignore it - a marked uptick in government-sanctioned anti-Muslim rhetoric and anti-Muslim violence. This all comes with a proto-fascist Hindutva party in power, with leaders who openly call for repressions towards and violence against the Muslim community.


Quite bluntly: Any time a state embarks on a campaign of prolonged calls for violence against, legal restrictions on, and the potential expulsion of millions on the basis of religion or race, it is a proto-genocidal logic. And it is precisely this campaign that the BJP has embarked on.

I suppose this is when you call this Pakistani propaganda and the protest movements Pakistani fronts, eh?

Oh, and yes, I am quite aware. I am also quite aware that that fact does not prevent the emergence of a proto-genocidal logic, nor its continued maintenance. Now how about you explain what's so splendidly democratic about the Modi government?

The National Register of Citizens (NRC) is an exercise by the Indian government to recognise and expel illegal immigrants pursuant to Section 14A of the Citizenship Act, 1955 read with the Foreigners Act, 1946

The NPR is a register of residents of India where the enumerator collects demographic and biometric data of individuals living at the place of enumeration for six months or more.

The governments of West Bengal and Kerala have suspended work on NRC and NPR.

Hindutva is a political tool used by the current Indian government to win elections. There is immense pressure on the government by many to go much further...

The government has it's loud mouths and idiots who call for hurting and killing Muslims. They should be thrown out.

These type of events happen because of prior extremism by Hindus against Muslims and then that pushes the Hindu population towards more extremism which then pressure the government towards more draconian measures

Kerala Muslim boy calls for genocide of Hindus

Muslim men behead a Hindu tailor for supporting in social media post a suspended government minister who quoted their holy text about prophet Muhammad

Well, there's that bit where they started up citizenship reform in a way that disproportionately targets Muslim communities in the middle of a surge in anti-Muslim violence and rhetoric...

But do tell me how that's just propaganda.

The CAA law fast-tracks citizenship of Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Jain, Parsi and Christian immigrants from Afghanistan, Pakistan and Bangladesh who arrived in India before 2015. The law has not yet been implemented yet though passed by parliament. Yes it does not include or Muslim immigration from Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan.

Tell me again how this leads to India going for genocide?

You do know that are over 200 million voting Muslim citizens in India?

The CAA establishes religion as a basis for citizenship and excludes Muslims from that basis, paired with the (funny how you decided to only focus on the CAA here) the NPR and NRC, and comes on the back of a process that systematically and discriminatorily targeted Muslims as ineligible for citizenship. The CAA, together with the NPR and NRC, targets Muslims as ineligible for membership in the body politic specifically on the basis of religion in doing so, and that's come at the same time as - and I note that you decided to ignore it - a marked uptick in government-sanctioned anti-Muslim rhetoric and anti-Muslim violence. This all comes with a proto-fascist Hindutva party in power, with leaders who openly call for repressions towards and violence against the Muslim community.


Quite bluntly: Any time a state embarks on a campaign of prolonged calls for violence against, legal restrictions on, and the potential expulsion of millions on the basis of religion or race, it is a proto-genocidal logic. And it is precisely this campaign that the BJP has embarked on.

I suppose this is when you call this Pakistani propaganda and the protest movements Pakistani fronts, eh?

Oh, and yes, I am quite aware. I am also quite aware that that fact does not prevent the emergence of a proto-genocidal logic, nor its continued maintenance. Now how about you explain what's so splendidly democratic about the Modi government?

The National Register of Citizens (NRC) is an exercise by the Indian government to recognise and expel illegal immigrants pursuant to Section 14A of the Citizenship Act, 1955 read with the Foreigners Act, 1946

The NPR is a register of residents of India where the enumerator collects demographic and biometric data of individuals living at the place of enumeration for six months or more.

The governments of West Bengal and Kerala have suspended work on NRC and NPR.

Hindutva is a political tool used by the current Indian government to win elections. There is immense pressure on the government by many to go much further...

The government has it's loud mouths and idiots who call for hurting and killing Muslims. They should be thrown out. The Indian government nor the Indian state is not moving towards a program of genocide.


Kerala Muslim boy calls for genocide of Hindus

Muslim men behead a Hindu tailor for supporting in social media post a suspended government minister who quoted their holy text about prophet Muhammad

Well, there's that bit where they started up citizenship reform in a way that disproportionately targets Muslim communities in the middle of a surge in anti-Muslim violence and rhetoric...

But do tell me how that's just propaganda.

The CAA law fast-tracks citizenship of Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Jain, Parsi and Christian immigrants from Afghanistan, Pakistan and Bangladesh who arrived in India before 2015. The law has not yet been implemented yet though passed by parliament. Yes it does not include or Muslim immigration from Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan.

Tell me again how this leads to India going for genocide?

You do know that are over 200 million voting Muslim citizens in India?

The CAA establishes religion as a basis for citizenship and excludes Muslims from that basis, paired with the (funny how you decided to only focus on the CAA here) the NPR and NRC, and comes on the back of a process that systematically and discriminatorily targeted Muslims as ineligible for citizenship. The CAA, together with the NPR and NRC, targets Muslims as ineligible for membership in the body politic specifically on the basis of religion in doing so, and that's come at the same time as - and I note that you decided to ignore it - a marked uptick in government-sanctioned anti-Muslim rhetoric and anti-Muslim violence. This all comes with a proto-fascist Hindutva party in power, with leaders who openly call for repressions towards and violence against the Muslim community.


Quite bluntly: Any time a state embarks on a campaign of prolonged calls for violence against, legal restrictions on, and the potential expulsion of millions on the basis of religion or race, it is a proto-genocidal logic. And it is precisely this campaign that the BJP has embarked on.

I suppose this is when you call this Pakistani propaganda and the protest movements Pakistani fronts, eh?

Oh, and yes, I am quite aware. I am also quite aware that that fact does not prevent the emergence of a proto-genocidal logic, nor its continued maintenance. Now how about you explain what's so splendidly democratic about the Modi government?

The National Register of Citizens (NRC) is an exercise by the Indian government to recognise and expel illegal immigrants pursuant to Section 14A of the Citizenship Act, 1955 read with the Foreigners Act, 1946

The NPR is a register of residents of India where the enumerator collects demographic and biometric data of individuals living at the place of enumeration for six months or more.

The governments of West Bengal and Kerala have suspended work on NRC and NPR.

Hindutva is a political tool used by the current Indian government to win elections. There is immense pressure on the government by many to go much further...Past grievances from violence committed between Hindu and Muslim groups keep cycling into new events murders and riots.

The Indian constitution forbids any insult to religion. Meant to keeps peace between the different religions. There is absolute freedom of speech

marginalization and discrimination against Muslims in India

Kerala Muslim boy calls for genocide of Hindus

Muslim men behead a Hindu tailor for supporting in social media post a suspended government minister who quoted their holy text about prophet Muhammad

India's top court grants bail to Muslim journalist accused of insulting Hindus democracy in action

The current Indian government led by the BJP has loud mouths and morons who threaten Muslims and call for violence against Muslims and they should be thrown out.

However the Indian government is bound by the constitution of India and an independent and active Judiciary.

With very large biometric database and pervasive surveillance and facial recognition, India will eventually move towards a security state much like China where they make people disappear quietly and seek to keep order above all else rather than some outright Nazi regime. The loud mouths and thugs are a distraction from the leadership actual long goal of economic growth even at the cost of suppression of Muslims

I don't agree but that is where India is headed

[Spice Runner]

I don't know what I did. Multiple posts with two responses. Apologies and if any mod can clean up. Thank you.
I only mean to post the last post with only the second response to the quote by user loomer

Duplicate post deleted

[Broomstick]

Between India and Pakistan that is not possible. The hostility is too great. I suspect India will never accept Pakistan or vice versa until a change in generations or another war.

Given they both have nukes let's hope it's not another war. It's not guaranteed the nukes would be used, but let's not test it.

What the fuck Sri Lanka was doing is beyond me. They had a good thing going but fucked it up.

I have the impression that borrowing too much then having the whole house of cards collapse was the problem though I could be wrong. The economic disruptions to a tourism-dependent area caused by covid-19 seems to have been the trigger. Kick out one of the major economic supports of a nation and bad things will happen.

[Broomstick]

India is currently controlled by a proto-fascist government building steam towards an active genocide. I'm not sure you've thought through the degree to which it's kept strong democratic institutions.

To be fair, you could say that about a number of democracies these days.... The "active genocide" part is debatable, but the proton-fascism is not.

[Broomstick]

You do know that are over 200 million voting Muslim citizens in India?

That puts them at about 14% of the Indian population. They're a minority and there is reason to believe they are at risk of oppression.

[loomer]

India is currently controlled by a proto-fascist government building steam towards an active genocide. I'm not sure you've thought through the degree to which it's kept strong democratic institutions.

To be fair, you could say that about a number of democracies these days.... The "active genocide" part is debatable, but the proton-fascism is not.

Absolutely. We're in something of a pickle globally with the rise of far-right populisms and the rapid resurgence of proto-fascism into the political mainstream, and we can only expect it to get worse between the mass disabling event we're seeing unfold and the spectre of climate crisis.

(Side note: For a typo, proton-fascism would be incredible as an entry on one of those satirical political alignment charts for wizards, the far future, etc)

The National Register of Citizens (NRC) is an exercise by the Indian government to recognise and expel illegal immigrants pursuant to Section 14A of the Citizenship Act, 1955 read with the Foreigners Act, 1946

The NPR is a register of residents of India where the enumerator collects demographic and biometric data of individuals living at the place of enumeration for six months or more.

The governments of West Bengal and Kerala have suspended work on NRC and NPR.

Yes, and? The combined effect of the NPR and NRC with the CAA is likely to resemble the Assam situation without serious safeguarding. This isn't exactly a controversial view.

Hindutva is a political tool used by the current Indian government to win elections. There is immense pressure on the government by many to go much further...Past grievances from violence committed between Hindu and Muslim groups keep cycling into new events murders and riots.

Yes, and? A party that uses Hindutva to win elections is still a Hindutva party, and the existence of past tensions and grievances being exploited for political ends is not only not inconsistent with the emergence of genocidal logic, but often directly inspires it. There were similar issues in Rwanda, for instance.

The Indian constitution forbids any insult to religion. Meant to keeps peace between the different religions. There is absolute freedom of speech

Are you suggesting this is sufficient to demonstrate that India is fine, actually, and there's no proto-genocidal expression? Remind me, does the mere existence of a constitutional right or protection guarantee that right or protection is actually observed?

marginalization and discrimination against Muslims in India

Kerala Muslim boy calls for genocide of Hindus

Muslim men behead a Hindu tailor for supporting in social media post a suspended government minister who quoted their holy text about prophet Muhammad

India's top court grants bail to Muslim journalist accused of insulting Hindus democracy in action

Ah, I see. So these links are 'democracy in action', and we can ignore the active attacks on public intellectuals, the dismantling of anti-Hindutva university courses and programs, attacks on journalists, reprisals against protestors against the CAA, efforts to introduce large-scale censorship, and the government in power hosting and defending numerous high level officials who call for violence against an out-group because... there's violence by Muslims as well. I see.

Remind me, is the BJP a pro-Muslim party supporting these acts and speeches? Does the PFI hold government?

Oh, and by the way: that naijaonpoint article is a repost from fucking jihad watch. For someone worried about propaganda, you might want to watch the shit you read and link to.

The current Indian government led by the BJP has loud mouths and morons who threaten Muslims and call for violence against Muslims and they should be thrown out.

The current Indian government led by the BJP has loud mouths and morons who are using the language of genocide and implementing the framework to do it.

However the Indian government is bound by the constitution of India and an independent and active Judiciary.

Ah yes, the constitution. Remind me: Is the CAA constitutional? Because quite a few Indian jurists seem to be under the impression that it isn't. And for that matter, remind me... does the Ministry of Law and Justice ever interfere in, or worse, actively undermine judicial appointments, transfers, and independence?

With very large biometric database and pervasive surveillance and facial recognition, India will eventually move towards a security state much like China where they make people disappear quietly and seek to keep order above all else rather than some outright Nazi regime. The loud mouths and thugs are a distraction from the leadership actual long goal of economic growth even at the cost of suppression of Muslims

I don't agree but that is where India is headed

'a distraction from the leadership's actual long goal of... suppression of Muslims'. Come the fuck on, are you even listening to yourself? It doesn't matter why a political party builds the logic of genocide up and engages in proto-genocidal rhetoric: the act in itself is sufficient to raise huge alarm bells.

[Spice Runner]

You do know that are over 200 million voting Muslim citizens in India?

That puts them at about 14% of the Indian population. They're a minority and there is reason to believe they are at risk of oppression.

Oppression, intimidation, yes I agree that is likely and is currently happening unfortunately.. But genocide I cannot imagine as that would create a civil war.

Mass riots and vigilante killings, intimidation and violence against Muslims can happen it is possible sadly just like 2002 and 1993. I foresee that happening more often in the BJP rupee states

States in India have much more freedom from the central government vs the how states are organized in the USA.

There are states like Uttar Pradesh and Assam that have the BJP in power that are going to the extreme such as demolishing homes of Muslims who have protests and riots in response to prophet Muhammad row recently for example

Then there are states like Kerala and Bengal and Rajasthan where the regional opposition to the BJP is in power and they have not for example implemented the NRR, CAA or NPR and the central government is not interfering as far as I know.

[Spice Runner]

The National Register of Citizens (NRC) is an exercise by the Indian government to recognise and expel illegal immigrants pursuant to Section 14A of the Citizenship Act, 1955 read with the Foreigners Act, 1946

The NPR is a register of residents of India where the enumerator collects demographic and biometric data of individuals living at the place of enumeration for six months or more.

The governments of West Bengal and Kerala have suspended work on NRC and NPR.

Yes, and? The combined effect of the NPR and NRC with the CAA is likely to resemble the Assam situation without serious safeguarding. This isn't exactly a controversial view.

Yes Assam through pressure from Assamese who hate the Bangladeshis has implemented NPR, NRC and CAA and it is an ugly situation.

The BJP is waiting for majority in the upper house or I suspect they are encouraging state by state implementation where they have ruling governments.

I won't argue this point. This is something the BJP has wanted for a long time far before they came into power in 2014

[Spice Runner]

Hindutva is a political tool used by the current Indian government to win elections. There is immense pressure on the government by many to go much further...Past grievances from violence committed between Hindu and Muslim groups keep cycling into new events murders and riots.

Yes, and? A party that uses Hindutva to win elections is still a Hindutva party, and the existence of past tensions and grievances being exploited for political ends is not only not inconsistent with the emergence of genocidal logic, but often directly inspires it. There were similar issues in Rwanda, for instance.

I'm not defending the party. Yes they do use past grievances stretching back centuries to rile up Hindu voters.

I see more of a state sponsored oppression and discrimination and intimidation against Muslims vs out and out genocide

[Spice Runner]

The Indian constitution forbids any insult to religion. Meant to keeps peace between the different religions. There is absolute freedom of speech

Are you suggesting this is sufficient to demonstrate that India is fine, actually, and there's no proto-genocidal expression? Remind me, does the mere existence of a constitutional right or protection guarantee that right or protection is actually observed?

marginalization and discrimination against Muslims in India

Kerala Muslim boy calls for genocide of Hindus

Muslim men behead a Hindu tailor for supporting in social media post a suspended government minister who quoted their holy text about prophet Muhammad

India's top court grants bail to Muslim journalist accused of insulting Hindus democracy in action

Ah, I see. So these links are 'democracy in action', and we can ignore the active attacks on public intellectuals, the dismantling of anti-Hindutva university courses and programs, attacks on journalists, reprisals against protestors against the CAA, efforts to introduce large-scale censorship, and the government in power hosting and defending numerous high level officials who call for violence against an out-group because... there's violence by Muslims as well. I see.

Remind me, is the BJP a pro-Muslim party supporting these acts and speeches? Does the PFI hold government?

Oh, and by the way: that naijaonpoint article is a repost from fucking jihad watch. For someone worried about propaganda, you might want to watch the shit you read and link to.

My bad as to jihadwatch repost. I didn't see that. However this news is what ordinary Hindus do see in India reposted again and again and from various sources and this stuff creates more extremism among the Hindu population who then vote in the BJP and expect the BJP to oppress the Muslims in turn.

The democracy in action was only referenced for the court granting bail to a man who is a fact checker for alt news whom the BJP wanted jailed for posting insult to Hindu God's. The court is going to quash the FIR (charges) against him it seems. I fucked up the quotes and links.

[Spice Runner]

The Indian constitution forbids any insult to religion. Meant to keeps peace between the different religions. There is absolute freedom of speech

Are you suggesting this is sufficient to demonstrate that India is fine, actually, and there's no proto-genocidal expression? Remind me, does the mere existence of a constitutional right or protection guarantee that right or protection is actually observed?

The current Indian government led by the BJP has loud mouths and morons who threaten Muslims and call for violence against Muslims and they should be thrown out.

The current Indian government led by the BJP has loud mouths and morons who are using the language of genocide and implementing the framework to do it.

However the Indian government is bound by the constitution of India and an independent and active Judiciary.

Ah yes, the constitution. Remind me: Is the CAA constitutional? Because quite a few Indian jurists seem to be under the impression that it isn't. And for that matter, remind me... does the Ministry of Law and Justice ever interfere in, or worse, actively undermine judicial appointments, transfers, and independence?

With very large biometric database and pervasive surveillance and facial recognition, India will eventually move towards a security state much like China where they make people disappear quietly and seek to keep order above all else rather than some outright Nazi regime. The loud mouths and thugs are a distraction from the leadership actual long goal of economic growth even at the cost of suppression of Muslims

I don't agree but that is where India is headed

'a distraction from the leadership's actual long goal of... suppression of Muslims'. Come the fuck on, are you even listening to yourself? It doesn't matter why a political party builds the logic of genocide up and engages in proto-genocidal rhetoric: the act in itself is sufficient to raise huge alarm bells.

I don't mean to suggest India is fine as it currently is going. I mean to make the point that genocide is not a realistic option for the BJP as much as members of the BJP might want it.

State sponsored oppression and intimidation yes. When the Indian constitution starts getting changed by the BJP then I would worry.

[Spice Runner]

The Indian constitution forbids any insult to religion. Meant to keeps peace between the different religions. There is absolute freedom of speech

Are you suggesting this is sufficient to demonstrate that India is fine, actually, and there's no proto-genocidal expression? Remind me, does the mere existence of a constitutional right or protection guarantee that right or protection is actually observed?

The current Indian government led by the BJP has loud mouths and morons who threaten Muslims and call for violence against Muslims and they should be thrown out.

The current Indian government led by the BJP has loud mouths and morons who are using the language of genocide and implementing the framework to do it.

However the Indian government is bound by the constitution of India and an independent and active Judiciary.

Ah yes, the constitution. Remind me: Is the CAA constitutional? Because quite a few Indian jurists seem to be under the impression that it isn't. And for that matter, remind me... does the Ministry of Law and Justice ever interfere in, or worse, actively undermine judicial appointments, transfers, and independence?

With very large biometric database and pervasive surveillance and facial recognition, India will eventually move towards a security state much like China where they make people disappear quietly and seek to keep order above all else rather than some outright Nazi regime. The loud mouths and thugs are a distraction from the leadership actual long goal of economic growth even at the cost of suppression of Muslims

I don't agree but that is where India is headed

'a distraction from the leadership's actual long goal of... suppression of Muslims'. Come the fuck on, are you even listening to yourself? It doesn't matter why a political party builds the logic of genocide up and engages in proto-genocidal rhetoric: the act in itself is sufficient to raise huge alarm bells.

I don't mean to suggest India is fine as it currently is going. I mean to make the point that genocide is not a realistic option for the BJP as much as members of the BJP might want it.

State sponsored oppression and intimidation yes. When the Indian constitution starts getting changed by the BJP then I would worry.

[Spice Runner]

Between India and Pakistan that is not possible. The hostility is too great. I suspect India will never accept Pakistan or vice versa until a change in generations or another war.

Given they both have nukes let's hope it's not another war. It's not guaranteed the nukes would be used, but let's not test it.

What the fuck Sri Lanka was doing is beyond me. They had a good thing going but fucked it up.

I have the impression that borrowing too much then having the whole house of cards collapse was the problem though I could be wrong. The economic disruptions to a tourism-dependent area caused by covid-19 seems to have been the trigger. Kick out one of the major economic supports of a nation and bad things will happen.

I agree. I hope against any nukes. But the rhetoric on both sides is unhinged these days

[MKSheppard]

Artificial states created by Britain in the mid 20th century are facing deep trouble with the global economy going south and rising inflation.

Please explain to me how Bangladesh is an artificial state created by Britain in the Mid 20th C.

Please provide citations and sources.

[Spice Runner]

Artificial states created by Britain in the mid 20th century are facing deep trouble with the global economy going south and rising inflation.

Please explain to me how Bangladesh is an artificial state created by Britain in the Mid 20th C.

Please provide citations and sources.

Artificial was the wrong word to use I concede that. However Britain created the borders of modern nation Bangladesh.

1945-1946 Elections held in the Central Legislative Assembly and the Council of State British occupied India (South Asia). The Indian national Congress won a large number of seats and the Muslim league led by Jinnah won Muslim majority regions

The borders of East Pakistan were created by British boundary commission hastily from 1946-1947 and arbitrarily in its arrogance

East Pakistan when it declared independence from Pakistan and became Bangladesh retained the borders that Britain created.

The vote to create pakistan in 1945-46

The creation of East Pakistan

The independence of Bangladesh from Pakistan

[Spice Runner]

Artificial states created by Britain in the mid 20th century are facing deep trouble with the global economy going south and rising inflation.

Please explain to me how Bangladesh is an artificial state created by Britain in the Mid 20th C.

Please provide citations and sources.

Here is the origin of Bangladesh. British arrogance in dividing Bengal by religion in 1905. Bunch of fucks they were.

The first Partition of Bengal (1905) was a territorial reorganization of the Bengal Presidency implemented by the authorities of the British Raj. The reorganization separated the largely Muslim eastern areas from the largely Hindu western areas.

British racist fuckery from 1905

[Ralin]

There is no perfect answer. The economic integration between India and Bangladesh that has been happening is a good example. Free access and investment between both is being implemented. Bangladesh manufactures and sells to India and vice versa India manufactures and sells goods as well as raw resources to Bangladesh. India has full access through a Bangladesh to access Assam through rail and road as does Bangladesh to India.

Between India and Pakistan that is not possible. The hostility is too great. I suspect India will never accept Pakistan or vice versa until a change in generations or another war.

That really doesn't answer what's wrong with Pakistan and Bangladesh's geography and borders beyond implying that they should either be part of or integrated with India. Which sounds a lot like you're saying the problem is that they exist as countries in the first place.

Here is the origin of Bangladesh. British arrogance in dividing Bengal by religion in 1905. Bunch of fucks they were.

The first Partition of Bengal (1905) was a territorial reorganization of the Bengal Presidency implemented by the authorities of the British Raj. The reorganization separated the largely Muslim eastern areas from the largely Hindu western areas.

British racist fuckery from 1905

You seem to be glossing over the fact that this was supported by quite a few Indian Muslims at the time, and that they chose to maintain much of this reorganization after independence, in favor of treating everyone involved as passive recipients of British arrogance.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

The Bangladesh–India border was a real mess until 2015 when they finally swapped territories, greatly simplifying their borders. Took them 40 years to do it, mind!

[Spice Runner]

There is no perfect answer. The economic integration between India and Bangladesh that has been happening is a good example. Free access and investment between both is being implemented. Bangladesh manufactures and sells to India and vice versa India manufactures and sells goods as well as raw resources to Bangladesh. India has full access through a Bangladesh to access Assam through rail and road as does Bangladesh to India.

Between India and Pakistan that is not possible. The hostility is too great. I suspect India will never accept Pakistan or vice versa until a change in generations or another war.

That really doesn't answer what's wrong with Pakistan and Bangladesh's geography and borders beyond implying that they should either be part of or integrated with India. Which sounds a lot like you're saying the problem is that they exist as countries in the first place.

Here is the origin of Bangladesh. British arrogance in dividing Bengal by religion in 1905. Bunch of fucks they were.

The first Partition of Bengal (1905) was a territorial reorganization of the Bengal Presidency implemented by the authorities of the British Raj. The reorganization separated the largely Muslim eastern areas from the largely Hindu western areas.

British racist fuckery from 1905

You seem to be glossing over the fact that this was supported by quite a few Indian Muslims at the time, and that they chose to maintain much of this reorganization after independence, in favor of treating everyone involved as passive recipients of British arrogance.

The problem with Pakistan and Bangladesh borders is that they both got screwed in terms of resources and valuable industrial areas.

Bangladesh got low lying swamp land and farms while industrial and port city of Calcutta went to India. That has at least partially kept them back

Pakistan got Sindh Baluchistan lots of desert with just a single port city of Karachi a part of developed Punjab and lots of mountains with hostile pashtuns.

I don't support reintegration. Pakistan and Bangladesh would not want that while many Indians don't want that either except for the fringe Hindus that want Arkhand Bharat and the fringe Muslims that want a Ghazwa e Hind.

Economic trade is better.


Bengal was originally ruled by Islamic sultanates since the 1350s the conquered by the Mughal Islamic empire in the 16th century until the 18th century when Nawab (former Mughal governors) broke away.

Britain conquered and ruled a Bengal in the late 18th century with a displaced an islamic elite and large Hindu and Muslim population living together under their rule .

During the British rule of Bengal ordinary Hindus and Muslims starting rising into positions of civil service in the government. Britain did create a secular state though they used divide and rule to keep the natives from revolting against their rule.

Yes the Muslim league and Muslims wanted their own separate region they could rule themselves. I apologize if I've ignored that important fact.

However the way arrogant British drew up borders it's like they wanted to keep hostility between Hindus and Muslims alive

[Elfdart]

Eugene McCarthy opined that it's hard to think of anything in human history that has caused more harm than British map-makers. Two other pithy remarks come to mind:

Ernest Jones said that the sun never sets on the British Empire, nor does the blood ever dy.

Someone else pointed out that the sun never sets on the British Empire because even God can't trust an Englishman in the dark.

It won't be much longer before our waning empire makes us the butt of snappy one-liners. It'll be well-deserved, that's for sure.

[Spice Runner]

Eugene McCarthy opined that it's hard to think of anything in human history that has caused more harm than British map-makers. Two other pithy remarks come to mind:

Ernest Jones said that the sun never sets on the British Empire, nor does the blood ever dy.

Someone else pointed out that the sun never sets on the British Empire because even God can't trust an Englishman in the dark.

It won't be much longer before our waning empire makes us the butt of snappy one-liners. It'll be well-deserved, that's for sure.

True. Empires come and go but the people remain.

I love modern Britain Europe and Americans. So many great people.

My family knows many Muslims and Christians. We the different people of Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Nepal and Sri Lanka are what remain of various centuries of empires long gone now.

However many Hindus in India including many levels are of the government up yo to the top have a giant chip on their shoulder. We see something new every year from Citizens ship laws to revoking Kashmir's unique status to now the pressure to demol

[Spice Runner]

I hit post too fast

Now in India there is pressure building by various Hindu groups to demolish mosques built on older temples.

It's moving towards a state where Muslims will be oppressed and discriminated against unless true liberal opposition can pull their shit together. The current opposition Congress national party has their heads up their asses.

If Pakistan does end up failing then the BJP will be further beholden to do whatever they want to the Muslim of the subcontinent. If they start changing the constitution I will worry.

It's a wait and see what happens this decade.

[loomer]

Spice Runner, I really think you may find it helpful to look into the construction of genocidal logic and necropolitics. Most of your response to 'India is heading towards genocide' is to point to... the construction of genocidal logic, and then say 'but it won't really happen' because the courts, the constitution, or economic necessity will prevent it. Now hopefully you're right, but the construction of these logics destabilizes the systems themselves when they're present over a long enough period. A good starting point is Mbembe's Necropolitics - its accessible enough while also being a cornerstone of a lot of theory, and while its helpful to first be fully familiar with Fanon, it isn't necessary to grasp most of Mbembe's points.

[Spice Runner]

Spice Runner, I really think you may find it helpful to look into the construction of genocidal logic and necropolitics. Most of your response to 'India is heading towards genocide' is to point to... the construction of genocidal logic, and then say 'but it won't really happen' because the courts, the constitution, or economic necessity will prevent it. Now hopefully you're right, but the construction of these logics destabilizes the systems themselves when they're present over a long enough period. A good starting point is Mbembe's Necropolitics - its accessible enough while also being a cornerstone of a lot of theory, and while its helpful to first be fully familiar with Fanon, it isn't necessary to grasp most of Mbembe's points.

Thank you I will check I out.
I took a look at the summary of Mbembe's Necropolitics and it is a fascinating read. From what I read in the summary blurb is disturbing and I can see how it can be related to what we see on the ground today...

[Eternal_Freedom]

It's also worth remembering that just because something is forbidden, explicitly or implicitly, in a constitution does not mean it can't happen.

Two cases in point. Look at the (remarkably progressive for the time) Wiemar Constitution in 1920's Germany, and then the complete hellhole that Hitler made of it more-or-less legally.

Second case, the US. In their Declaration of Independence you have "all men are created equal" and their First Amendment says, in part, that Congress shall pass no laws restricting the right to freedom of assembly and expression. Both came about while slavery was still a legal practice, which is a pretty big block to "freedom of expression and/or assembly".

So yeah, something may be unconstitutional now. But constitutions can and do change, and not always for the better.