Thor: Love and Thunder | Official Teaser

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Nice to see that New Asgard didn't forego all of their advanced tech and in fact it seems to have become quite the tourist hotspot, ironic for someplace so cold, they had to have been hard at work transforming a small fishing port into something that can service at least three massive cruise ships.

Perhaps if Darcy and Sif had more than cameo roles, for a two hour film it felt like a lot of their material it was left on the cutting room floor. Marvel once again followed their tradition of lopping people's arms off, in this case it was Sif who suffered this fate- at the end we see her training one-handed. Not that she has to remain that way- if Wakanda can fashion a complete arm and shoulder for Bucky, there's no reason they cannot fashion a replacement for Sif.

Mjolnir could somehow break apart and reform itself at will now, with each piece able to act independently- a concept first seen in Iron Man 3. At the end we had the shattered Necrosword (somehow) repairing itself with dust from Mjolnir, it was only Jane Foster herself who destroyed both weapons.

[LadyTevar]

(snip)
... a woman who was being killed by the thing that was keeping her alive. It's almost like Mjolnir was full of palladium.

Well, that much is true to the comics, and one of the things I found really interesting about the storyline. Jane is taking Chemotherapy to stop her cancer, but every time she becomes Thor, it cleans her body of the chemo but not the cancer.
Which is pretty much medically correct -- Chemotherapy works on the idea of poisoning the body and hoping it kills off the cancerous cells before it kills off all the healthy cells. The transformation removes the poisons, but keeps the cancer because despite everything they're still part of Jane's natural body.

Now, we can argue that this is just another method of "fridging" because it's killing the Woman (but not the man), and Sif losing an arm also falls into that category imho.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

(snip)
... a woman who was being killed by the thing that was keeping her alive. It's almost like Mjolnir was full of palladium.

Well, that much is true to the comics, and one of the things I found really interesting about the storyline. Jane is taking Chemotherapy to stop her cancer, but every time she becomes Thor, it cleans her body of the chemo but not the cancer.
Which is pretty much medically correct -- Chemotherapy works on the idea of poisoning the body and hoping it kills off the cancerous cells before it kills off all the healthy cells. The transformation removes the poisons, but keeps the cancer because despite everything they're still part of Jane's natural body.

Now, we can argue that this is just another method of "fridging" because it's killing the Woman (but not the man), and Sif losing an arm also falls into that category imho.

Yet despite the lore saying one of the things associated with the hammer is "great health" (and Thor specifically telling the hammer to protect her), according to the doctor it somehow interfered with her body's ability to fight the disease, except everything we were told implies that she was losing that fight anyway. Of course the chemotherapy should also have made her hair fall out, but nobody wants to see bald Natalie Portman. That part could be handwaved as her wearing a wig of course.

[LadyTevar]

(snip)
... a woman who was being killed by the thing that was keeping her alive. It's almost like Mjolnir was full of palladium.

Well, that much is true to the comics, and one of the things I found really interesting about the storyline. Jane is taking Chemotherapy to stop her cancer, but every time she becomes Thor, it cleans her body of the chemo but not the cancer.
Which is pretty much medically correct -- Chemotherapy works on the idea of poisoning the body and hoping it kills off the cancerous cells before it kills off all the healthy cells. The transformation removes the poisons, but keeps the cancer because despite everything they're still part of Jane's natural body.

Now, we can argue that this is just another method of "fridging" because it's killing the Woman (but not the man), and Sif losing an arm also falls into that category imho.

Yet despite the lore saying one of the things associated with the hammer is "great health" (and Thor specifically telling the hammer to protect her), according to the doctor it somehow interfered with her body's ability to fight the disease, except everything we were told implies that she was losing that fight anyway. Of course the chemotherapy should also have made her hair fall out, but nobody wants to see bald Natalie Portman. That part could be handwaved as her wearing a wig of course.

It gave her GREAT health! It Removed The POISONS. It's made her able to be walking around, fighting the good fight, as if she was perfectly strong and healthy!
Until she's no longer acting as Thor.
In the comics, at that point, she was drawn disturbingly close to photos of Auschwitz survivors -- no hair, sunken features, skin over bones. I can understand not wanting to make Portman look that sick. Romancing a barely alive skeleton on-screen?

[Bedlam]

I'd say this was my least favorite Marvel movie for quite a while although I can't put my finger on exactly why. I was overly silly, although, generally I like that in movies, maybe it just pushed it a little far?

Part may be that it doesn't seem to exactly fit into previous Marvel canon, in particular what is a 'god', in the first Thor movie Asgardian's were just aliens with sufficiently advanced technology, Byfrost was a worm hole (even mentioned in this film), etc but now we have a city full of creatures apparently from all sorts of pantheon's from around the universe, and most planets are apparently protected by a few gods, are they all from different advanced species apparently separate from the normal tech level of the galaxy seen in Guaridans? Are they all one species which camps out and gets worshiped all over the universe? Or are they really Supernatural beings (the whole Valhalla bit at the end makes it seem even more supernatural unless you want to rationalize it as some sort of Asgardian uploading your brain at the point of death afterlife thing). Eternals and Guardian's also seems to have god like beings but they have previously at least tried to put a layer of sort of Science Fiction over them like earlier Thor did.

Plus it would have seemed easier for Thanos to have gotten a wish from Eternity than to collect all the Infinity Stones if he wanted to kill half the universe.

[Solauren]

We don't know Thanos's early life and exploits. For all we know, he did try to get to Eternity, but couldn't get the Gate to open, and couldn't find out the key. That might have lead to his raising his armies, going about things the 'old fashioned way', and then he heard about the Infinity Stones....

It's likely that Gorr, a mortal, only knew about Eternity and the Bifrost being the key because of the Necrosword.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

That, and Stormbreaker (the key) didn't even exist until Thor visited Nidavellir which was already some time after Thanos did.

We didn't even get to what happened to Korg, with any emotional weight disappearing the moment it was revealed he survived as a disembodied face and the Kronan God didn't get involved to help him. And it being revealed that they were a one-gender race who reproduced by using a volcano to make offspring out of molten rock. Or something.

[Solauren]

That, and Stormbreaker (the key) didn't even exist until Thor visited Nidavellir which was already some time after Thanos did.

We didn't even get to what happened to Korg, with any emotional weight disappearing the moment it was revealed he survived as a disembodied face and the Kronan God didn't get involved to help him. And it being revealed that they were a one-gender race who reproduced by using a volcano to make offspring out of molten rock. Or something.

Bifrost was the key, not Stormbreaker specifically. (At least that's how Jane read it, and since she's very-high end for a human intelligence)
In theory, the old Bifrost bridge from Thor #1, and the replacement in #3, could have opened the Gates to Eternity.

[Crazedwraith]

I watched and I went in with low expectations from here and other threads maybe that was why I unexpectedly enjoyed it? I'd spoiled myself on a lot of details.

It's obvious that despite the shared universe thing, the end of Endgame was not a part of the plan for Love and Thunder, every element of it was quickly discarded and moved on from asap. Fat Thor, Thor as a GotG, Valkyrie as a king, all acknowledged and then play basically no part in it.

So was that whole Thor/Jane romance supposed to happen between AoU and Ragnarok? Seems the only time it could do as they were implied to still be together in AoU. (or maybe that was near the end of the relationship when she was too busy to hang out with the Avengers with him?) I mean it... worked-ish but it was an obvious fudge.

I loved seeing Sif back, hated how little they did with her.

One thing I hadn't heard about and was an perfect blend of cheesy and awesome was Thor declaring all the children "Worthy" and bestowing his power upon them. Presumably explains why he needed Jane's back up to fight Gorr; he's only got so much power to go around.

And the ending is good. It felt like it need more polish, or more scenes with Gorr and Jane as opposed to Omnipotence City. It guess OC is need to underline the whole 'the other gods are jerks' thing but it feels like time that could have been better used. Like polish it up so the end follows better from the start.

As an addendum, kind sucks that Zoe Saldana didn't get a gig as a Guardian in this movie and I wonder this period with Thor will prove as awkward to write around in GotG 3 as it is here.

[Khaat]

"All the powers (for a limited time only) of Thor!"

Finally saw it. Seemed to be missing a re-write or two? The characters had some sloppy lines, could have been punched up: almost everything with the GotG, everything with Sif, Sif's wish for Valhalla getting nerfed "You have to die in the battle." "Oh, shit!", the awkward of the romance and falling apart - without dialog, just Korg's voice-over. And if the Necrosword knows where the Gate is, and what the key is, why not where Omnipotence City is (especially considering it wants all the gods dead)? Not enough shadows there? Mrh.

Some dialog was cute, and fit: "Having accepted, they are now yours. No take-backsies!"

[EnterpriseSovereign]

It just came to Disney +, I'm going to have to rewatch it at some point, it just wasn't up to Marvel's usual standard especially for their big summer tentpole film so I'm in no hurry. Can't wait to see what HISHE does with it. Next up- Wakanda Forever.

[Elfdart]

I finally got around to watching it and it was great fun. The best part was Zeus prancing down the stairs holding up his tutu with both hands. Taika Waititi should do more of these.

[Batman]

Wait. As Thor basically REMOVED Mjölnir from pre-Ragnarok reality by nabbing it and taking it to Endgame, doesn't that mean it would no longer have been THERE for Hela to shatter and Jane find the fragments and become Lady Thor?
And this is why I hate time travel stories.

[Gandalf]

Wait. As Thor basically REMOVED Mjölnir from pre-Ragnarok reality by nabbing it and taking it to Endgame, doesn't that mean it would no longer have been THERE for Hela to shatter and Jane find the fragments and become Lady Thor?
And this is why I hate time travel stories.

According to the rules awkwardly outlined by Endgame, you can't alter what has happened. So theoretically they could go back and grab infinite Mjolnirs. Or infinite Avengers for the big end fight.

[Crazedwraith]

Yeah, timetravel creates branching timelines sort of, maybe. Unless Cap is involved possibly. They managed to make it very unclear in just one movie.

In any case additionally that mjolnir was returned to it's original place in time by Steve along with the infinity stones at the end of Endgane.

[Tribble]

Wait. As Thor basically REMOVED Mjölnir from pre-Ragnarok reality by nabbing it and taking it to Endgame, doesn't that mean it would no longer have been THERE for Hela to shatter and Jane find the fragments and become Lady Thor?
And this is why I hate time travel stories.

According to the rules awkwardly outlined by Endgame, you can't alter what has happened. So theoretically they could go back and grab infinite Mjolnirs. Or infinite Avengers for the big end fight.

IIRC Captain America returned Mjolnir along with the stones when he went back.

IIRC they could easily alter what has happened; however that just creates an alternate timeline rather than help fix the one they were in. Tony and Co figured out that the only way to fix their timeline was to bring the stones to the present there and use them, changing things prior to that wouldn’t accomplish anything. Plus Tony didn’t want other changes being made since that would risk his family.

And IIRC It was only pointed out after they went into the past that they could doom parallel timelines as well if they made a bunch of changes like removing the stones, which is why Banner promised to return whatever they borrowed.

Dr Sttange apparently knew all this but kept his cards close to his chest for obvious reasons (and being dead for several years made it easier to keep his secrets).

[Batman]

I forgot the bit where they planned to return the Stones (and presumably Mjolnir) to the past, My bad.

[Gandalf]

IIRC Captain America returned Mjolnir along with the stones when he went back.

IIRC they could easily alter what has happened; however that just creates an alternate timeline rather than help fix the one they were in. Tony and Co figured out that the only way to fix their timeline was to bring the stones to the present there and use them, changing things prior to that wouldn’t accomplish anything. Plus Tony didn’t want other changes being made since that would risk his family.

And IIRC It was only pointed out after they went into the past that they could doom parallel timelines as well if they made a bunch of changes like removing the stones, which is why Banner promised to return whatever they borrowed.

Dr Sttange apparently knew all this but kept his cards close to his chest for obvious reasons (and being dead for several years made it easier to keep his secrets).

I think the stones work on a different set of rules to the other stuff.

They couldn't go back and kill baby Thanos because apparently doing things in the past doesn't change the future. Assuming Professor Hulk is right on that issue, they should be able to raid the past with impunity. Thanos effectively did that for himself, where MCU Phase II era Thanos, Gamora and friends jumped forward to a time following their own deaths in Infinity War, all without fucking up the timeline.

[Lost Soal]

I think the stones work on a different set of rules to the other stuff.

They couldn't go back and kill baby Thanos because apparently doing things in the past doesn't change the future. Assuming Professor Hulk is right on that issue, they should be able to raid the past with impunity. Thanos effectively did that for himself, where MCU Phase II era Thanos, Gamora and friends jumped forward to a time following their own deaths in Infinity War, all without fucking up the timeline.

He didn't jump forward he jumped from an alternate reality, the fact "our" Nebula didn't vanish when the other one was killed proves this. As for what happened to that universe after... it may have carried on or it could have been deleted as an unacceptable deviation.

[Gandalf]

I think the stones work on a different set of rules to the other stuff.

They couldn't go back and kill baby Thanos because apparently doing things in the past doesn't change the future. Assuming Professor Hulk is right on that issue, they should be able to raid the past with impunity. Thanos effectively did that for himself, where MCU Phase II era Thanos, Gamora and friends jumped forward to a time following their own deaths in Infinity War, all without fucking up the timeline.

He didn't jump forward he jumped from an alternate reality, the fact "our" Nebula didn't vanish when the other one was killed proves this. As for what happened to that universe after... it may have carried on or it could have been deleted as an unacceptable deviation.

If he jumped forward from an alternate reality, then shouldn't he have appeared in the future of that reality?

Also, the lack of Nebula disappearing also backs the idea that you can fuck around in the past with no consequences.

[Darth Yan]

I think the stones work on a different set of rules to the other stuff.

They couldn't go back and kill baby Thanos because apparently doing things in the past doesn't change the future. Assuming Professor Hulk is right on that issue, they should be able to raid the past with impunity. Thanos effectively did that for himself, where MCU Phase II era Thanos, Gamora and friends jumped forward to a time following their own deaths in Infinity War, all without fucking up the timeline.

He didn't jump forward he jumped from an alternate reality, the fact "our" Nebula didn't vanish when the other one was killed proves this. As for what happened to that universe after... it may have carried on or it could have been deleted as an unacceptable deviation.

If he jumped forward from an alternate reality, then shouldn't he have appeared in the future of that reality?

Also, the lack of Nebula disappearing also backs the idea that you can fuck around in the past with no consequences.

The Pym particles don't just jump through time, they also jump through space. He didn't just jump futures but realities as well.

It's simple. Whenever time travel occurs a new reality is branched off from the moment of the change. The Pym Particles Quantum Realm allow people to not just travel back in time but also to the prime reality. This is all laid out in the movie.

[Gandalf]

The Pym particles don't just jump through time, they also jump through space. He didn't just jump futures but realities as well.

It's simple. Whenever time travel occurs a new reality is branched off from the moment of the change. The Pym Particles Quantum Realm allow people to not just travel back in time but also to the prime reality. This is all laid out in the movie.

Where is that all laid out? It's been a while since I've watched it, and I mainly remember Hulk's lecture about why they can't kill baby Thanos, and the Ancient One talking about how the stones prevent alternate realities.

What you say is true in that the moment you appear in the past, it should be altered. But the film puts a lot of effort into establishing it isn't necessarily the case.

[Darth Yan]

I remember them outlining that or at least implying it. The Russos said that Captain America used the Pym particles to travel back to the main reality from the branch he created. I believe the wiki takes a similar interpretation. It's the one that makes sense with the rules ergo it's what I go with.

[Ralin]

Honestly this is the sort of thing I'm inclined to chalk up to 'Really weird shit that doesn't behave consistently because it involves messing with fundamental aspects of how the universe works in ways that shouldn't be possible' and assume that the on-screen explanations are just best guesses about how it will work. Meaning something like Cap going back in time and living a whole new life didn't fuck up the timeline this time but it might next time if someone does the exact same thing, and that's exactly why people shouldn't be playing around with time travel.

Not up on the latest movies and Marvel shows though.

[Gandalf]

I remember them outlining that or at least implying it.

Where?

The Russos said that Captain America used the Pym particles to travel back to the main reality from the branch he created. I believe the wiki takes a similar interpretation. It's the one that makes sense with the rules ergo it's what I go with.

The Russos said Captain America lived in a "branch dimension," so it's inherently possible that he created and lived in one before returning the last stone. It would preserve the timeline as the Ancient One outlined it. The interview portion I found doesn't mention Pym particles or any methodology, so I can only assume you found a better one.

At the same time, McFeely and Markus wrote that Captain America is living in the main timeline, just in the background of everything else going on. That's way more consistent with what is happening in the film.