We need to talk about Andor

[wautd]

I'm surprised that there's no tread about the new Disney+ show here yet.
As someone who thinks that Rogue One is one the best Star Wars movie out there, I was extremely hyped for this show. Having seen the first 4 episodes... I wasn't disapointed. About time there's a Star Wars series that focuses more on the Rebellion.
Great world building, good story with no dumb plot holes, nice scenery, great action scenes,... not a lot to complain about it really. The show feels grounded/pretty realistic and unless they mess up the ending, this will probably top the Mandalorion for me (which was good, but I wasn't a big fan of the stand alone episodes that felt way too short. Andor feels more like a 3-4 hour long movie cut into several episodes).

Oh and Stellan Skarsgård is fucking badass in this series. What an actor. Loved his transformation in Ep4.

[bilateralrope]

I wonder where they are going with the corp security guy. His story clearly isn't done, and the motivation for trying to arrest Andor was because he cared about the lives of his two dead comrades. Could he be joining the Rebellion later ?

[wautd]

I wonder where they are going with the corp security guy. His story clearly isn't done, and the motivation for trying to arrest Andor was because he cared about the lives of his two dead comrades. Could he be joining the Rebellion later ?

Indeed. He'll either join the Rebellion or goes full Empire. He's probably bitter and disillusioned so I would guess the former but it can swing either way

[bilateralrope]

I wonder where they are going with the corp security guy. His story clearly isn't done, and the motivation for trying to arrest Andor was because he cared about the lives of his two dead comrades. Could he be joining the Rebellion later ?

Indeed. He'll either join the Rebellion or goes full Empire. He's probably bitter and disillusioned so I would guess the former but it can swing either way

It's going to be an interesting meeting when he next runs into Andor either way.

[Eframepilot]

I wonder where they are going with the corp security guy. His story clearly isn't done, and the motivation for trying to arrest Andor was because he cared about the lives of his two dead comrades. Could he be joining the Rebellion later ?

My hunch is that he'll go deeper into the Empire. He's on Coruscant now and so is that blonde ISB woman who is trying to hone in on Andor and the Rebels. She was foiled at getting access to the case through that stolen and recovered box, but now a guy connected to the incident is unemployed on the same planet. She'll probably try to use him.

[bilateralrope]

Is he on Coruscant ?

It looked like an apartment complex that could be in any city and he was visiting his mother.

Also, that was some impressive dysfunction within the ISB. That blonde woman found something that justified her getting access to case files held by someone else because it might be connected to events in her sector. Just a simple copying of files. But instead the infighting between members of the ISB is given priority over their regulations and investigating events they are meant to deal with.

[wautd]

Is he on Coruscant ?

It looked like an apartment complex that could be in any city and he was visiting his mother.

Also, that was some impressive dysfunction within the ISB. That blonde woman found something that justified her getting access to case files held by someone else because it might be connected to events in her sector. Just a simple copying of files. But instead the infighting between members of the ISB is given priority over their regulations and investigating events they are meant to deal with.

I actually like that little detail. It reminded me of the infighting between the Nazis during WW2.

What I did found silly though was, that in a universe with a million planets, the news of a couple of corp security getting their asses kicked on a backwater planet reaches the meeting room of the top brass ISB on the capital city, and gets high priority in return. Waaaay too much micromanaging.

[bilateralrope]

What I did found silly though was, that in a universe with a million planets, the news of a couple of corp security getting their asses kicked on a backwater planet reaches the meeting room of the top brass ISB on the capital city, and gets high priority in return. Waaaay too much micromanaging.

Maybe it was that stolen imperial device that grabbed their attention. Maybe someone on the planet was upset that corp security from a different planet came and caused trouble. So that person complained to the Empire.

But I think they aren't paying as much attention to the galaxy as they think they are. Most planets are hushing stuff up to avoid Imperial attention so, when the ISB hears of a small event like this, they think it's unusual and give everyone else a reminder of why they hide things.

[vakundok]

I liked portraying Mothma's life. Deception inside deception. At this point I would put my bet her husband not knowing who she is.

That starpath must be a point of pride. Even if corporate security failure gives an excuse to take direct control of a planet, this did not seem to be their motive and a planet is not much more than the ten or so dead security officers when viewed from a six sector high vantage point.

[RogueIce]

Also, that was some impressive dysfunction within the ISB. That blonde woman found something that justified her getting access to case files held by someone else because it might be connected to events in her sector. Just a simple copying of files. But instead the infighting between members of the ISB is given priority over their regulations and investigating events they are meant to deal with.

Not really? The Major said it himself: if they went around chasing every coincidence backed by somebody's gut instinct they'd be doing nothing else, and 99.99% of the time it would be absolutely nothing in the end. That's the way life works. They don't know they're in a TV show and that this chain of coincidence is actually important.

The narrative even supports it, to an extent: originally Cassian's theft of the Starmap had nothing to do with Rebellion or revolution or anything more important than getting credits. Plain and simple. Even after he killed the Corpo goons, he just wanted money to escape, not a higher purpose. It is only by the tiniest twist of fate that following this thread would result in anything more than a simple theft-for-credits, even if ISB broke it wide open and captured Andor.

What I did found silly though was, that in a universe with a million planets, the news of a couple of corp security getting their asses kicked on a backwater planet reaches the meeting room of the top brass ISB on the capital city, and gets high priority in return. Waaaay too much micromanaging.

It was a group of Lieutenants reporting to a Major. Again, with the above example, don't let the fact the camera is following these characters overinflate their actual importance to The System. As for the meeting taking place on Coruscant, well that's just crippling over centralization for you. Or that ISB likes to be in the comforts of the Capital and only the field agents venture out into the dirtier parts of the Empire on a routine basis.

[Lord Revan]

Honestly as mentioned by others ISB having in-fighting issues is actually not a bad thing at all, the empire wasting time and resources in petty rivalries and backstabbing was a rule of thumb would go a long way into explaining why they suffered such major collapse after Endor, if there was an epidemic mistrust of your fellow members of the imperial military/hierarchy it would be much harder for a successor build up a sufficient power base to overcome the Rebellion (or at this point possibly the New Republic) and maintain hold on systems wanting to leave from the empire.

Not mention this mistrust would benefit the rebellion in other ways as well (like high-ranking officers not reporting potential rebel activity until it was too late due not wanting to loose their status within the hierarchy).

[vakundok]

The most junior lieutenant was responsible for two sectors, the "bright star", but probably not the most senior, for six. The major stated the ISB mission statement as wrong and in an organization with heavy infighting one has to be very sure in his position to do that. I can easily imagine that major to be responsible for some percentages of the galaxy at the bare minimum, or for a specific function of the ISB accross the galaxy at maximum. Kind of a department lead, two or max three levels below the top, senior position with max a few dozens in numbers. (Emm, senior in an organization where non seniors can steamroll the local interests of megacorporations to merely make a point and I thought I saw the back of an army trooper through the window when he announced it.)
The lieutenants were still lectured to notice small things and take care of the details themselves, I can imagine this topic was brought up as the most insignificant looking one.
The starpath was important enough to get obscured in the official report as a box, but it would have probably not been a good idea trying to withold it from their commander.

I got the feeling that the increased traffic in the Scariff sector was the superlaser dish of the Death Star.

[Darth Yan]

Hell just look at the Nazisl; they and other fascist governments were LUDICROUSLY incompetent and prone to infighting. It's by their very nature

[KraytKing]

I'm trying not to read the thread because I only watched the first three episodes so far, but God damn. This show is amazing. So far they've avoided MCU type humor but still not been crushingly heavy, the dialogue has been incredible (particularly between the old corporate security boss and the new guy), and the style is just beautiful. I love that the ship that crashed on Andor's planet was a Republic vessel--and the crew still casually shot the first children they saw. That's an Imperial type thing to do for sure and they generally look Imperial. It was small, but I'm grateful for any moment where we don't portray the rise of the Empire as one overnight shift where everyone became an instant asshole through mind control.

Loved the concept of the shipbreaker planet where they all have scrap metal to bang as their alarm system. Very clever. I like that the stakes are so far pretty low. Andor DOES save the galaxy--but this isn't that story. This is where he becomes the skilled agent and spy that he was at the start of his galaxy-saving story, and so he just fights galactic mall cops. Also, he has no spy skills. He fucks up pretty badly in some obvious ways. But this is the story of him becoming a spy; if he was skilled at the start, the story wouldn't be able to develop.

I will say, the first three episodes should have been one thing. The first two weren't episodic: the endings were nonsense and they told no compelling individual story. The three of them together, however, makes for an EXCELLENT two hour feature, and I don't know why they couldn't just release it as a long premier. Part of why I'm not watching the other episodes as they come out: if all of them are leveraged to tell a story in two hours but are 45 minutes long, then I'll just watch them three at a time, once a month.

There were some other problems, of course, but I watched it on premier night however many weeks ago and I don't really remember everything clearly. Overall, very good. Makes me more pissed about Kenobi, though, since apparently they knew how to make good television this whole time and just decided to make god-awful TV instead.

[vakundok]

Hell just look at the Nazisl; they and other fascist governments were LUDICROUSLY incompetent and prone to infighting. It's by their very nature

I think it is more related to the overpowered top coming up with unrealistic ideas (they usually declare themselves as visionary leaders) trying to force those to reality via middle management. As the goals can not be achieved, fake statistics and success reports become the norm replacing previous middle layers with smooth talkers completely lacking the competence to the area (as per their self evaluation they are experts of course, who can learn any area without ever doing it).
When the environment changes pushing for actual results, this causes a collapse of the whole system.

Sorry, my point is only that this is not specific to governments and/or fascist, current big companies are no exceptions.

[Galvatron]

Overall, very good. Makes me more pissed about Kenobi, though, since apparently they knew how to make good television this whole time and just decided to make god-awful TV instead.

That's what happens when you get writers who think Star Wars is nothing but "a kids' show about space wizards!" and "it's supposed to be schlocky!"

Tony Gilroy ain't like that.

[Darth Yan]

I thought that Obi Wan and Anakin's final duel in Episode 6 was generally well regarded.

[ray245]

Kenobi had a lower budget than Andor, and it shows.

Andor latest episode was wonderful.

[Galvatron]

It was wonderful, except for the fact that the firefight sounded more like Star Trek phasers than Star Wars blasters. I don't understand the creative decisions that led to that. At least they got the TIE fighter sound effects right.

[Elfdart]

Overall, very good. Makes me more pissed about Kenobi, though, since apparently they knew how to make good television this whole time and just decided to make god-awful TV instead.

That's what happens when you get writers who think Star Wars is nothing but "a kids' show about space wizards!" and "it's supposed to be schlocky!"

Tony Gilroy ain't like that.

That's because Kenobi was meant to be a two-hour movie released in theaters, not a TV series. So they padded it out with a lot of dumbth, as Steve Allen would say.

[Galvatron]

Overall, very good. Makes me more pissed about Kenobi, though, since apparently they knew how to make good television this whole time and just decided to make god-awful TV instead.

That's what happens when you get writers who think Star Wars is nothing but "a kids' show about space wizards!" and "it's supposed to be schlocky!"

Tony Gilroy ain't like that.

That's because Kenobi was meant to be a two-hour movie released in theaters, not a TV series. So they padded it out with a lot of dumbth, as Steve Allen would say.

Imagine if they'd done the same thing with Solo: A Star Wars Story. You might have gotten an entire episode devoted to the backstory of his Corellian Bloodstripes.

[Coop D'etat]

What I did found silly though was, that in a universe with a million planets, the news of a couple of corp security getting their asses kicked on a backwater planet reaches the meeting room of the top brass ISB on the capital city, and gets high priority in return. Waaaay too much micromanaging.

Maybe it was that stolen imperial device that grabbed their attention. Maybe someone on the planet was upset that corp security from a different planet came and caused trouble. So that person complained to the Empire.

But I think they aren't paying as much attention to the galaxy as they think they are. Most planets are hushing stuff up to avoid Imperial attention so, when the ISB hears of a small event like this, they think it's unusual and give everyone else a reminder of why they hide things.

The guy in charge is a major, I don't think they're all that senior in the ISB. I'd suggest in fact that they're very junior in the hierarchy all things considered.

It speaks more to the encroaching centralization and bureaucracy that this is being discussed on Corusant.

The theft was big news everywhere though, because that is was big enough to matter.

[Lord Revan]

What I did found silly though was, that in a universe with a million planets, the news of a couple of corp security getting their asses kicked on a backwater planet reaches the meeting room of the top brass ISB on the capital city, and gets high priority in return. Waaaay too much micromanaging.

Maybe it was that stolen imperial device that grabbed their attention. Maybe someone on the planet was upset that corp security from a different planet came and caused trouble. So that person complained to the Empire.

But I think they aren't paying as much attention to the galaxy as they think they are. Most planets are hushing stuff up to avoid Imperial attention so, when the ISB hears of a small event like this, they think it's unusual and give everyone else a reminder of why they hide things.

The guy in charge is a major, I don't think they're all that senior in the ISB. I'd suggest in fact that they're very junior in the hierarchy all things considered.

It speaks more to the encroaching centralization and bureaucracy that this is being discussed on Corusant.

The theft was big news everywhere though, because that is was big enough to matter.

Second in Command of the ISB is a colonel though, I suspect ISB or at least this part of it is rather small.

[bilateralrope]

An interesting thought came to mind about the new job the corpo guy got. My initial feeling of that scene was one of oppressive bureaucracy.

But then I remembered all the people I've seen complaining about open offices. Office spaces without even cubicles to separate one persons workspace from the next. Lots of distractions, both from the noise of the other people working (especially if they use the phone) and from people who are more tempted to interrupt each other for "one quick question" due to the lack of barriers. Apparently it's not good for productivity, nor well liked. But companies like it because it lets them cram people in tighter, saving costs.

I get the feeling that a lot of the people who complain about open offices would prefer the layout of the workstations in Andor.

Of course, this is working under the Empire. There will be plenty of policies there that they don't like. But I'm only thinking about the layout of the workstations here.

[GuppyShark]

Kinda curious about the uncle and his 'favours' though. The best he could swing was an entry-level data entry job? And that was the big family favour? The dude was recently fired, sure, but still had the credentials to be a fairly ranking member of that corpo security force.