Republicans are having trouble electing a speaker of the house

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Republicans are having trouble electing a speaker of the house

Post by bilateralrope »


House adjourns as speakership evades McCarthy even after sixth vote

Republicans push back deadline of electing new speaker to noon on Thursday, after six failed votes in two days

Joan E Greve and Lauren Gambino in Washington
Thu 5 Jan 2023 03.04 GMT


The House remained paralyzed on Wednesday, after Republican leader Kevin McCarthy failed for the sixth time to capture the speaker’s gavel as his critics stood firm in their opposition to his candidacy. After the House adjourned for a few hours, McCarthy and his allies went into negotiations with the Republican holdouts without a clear path forward to end the standoff, then pushed back a seventh vote on the House leadership until Thursday.

The House held a total of three inconclusive votes in the speakership election on Wednesday, mirroring the three votes held a day earlier. Across all six ballots, no speaker candidate successfully captured the 218 votes expected to be needed for a victory. The stalemate marked the first time in a century that a House speaker was not chosen in the initial vote. After the sixth vote on Wednesday evening, the House moved to adjourn until at least 8pm ET, giving Republicans more time to reach a solution, then pushed back the deadline again, voting to adjourn until noon the following day.

“It looks messy,” said congressman Mike Gallagher, a Republican from Wisconsin, in a speech nominating McCarthy for speaker on Wednesday, “but democracy is messy.”

One congressional reporter wrote that it felt like Groundhog Day on Capitol Hill, referencing the classic film where the protagonist is forced to relive the same day over and over again, while the president called the stalemate “embarrassing.”

On the sixth ballot, McCarthy earned just 201 votes, and all 212 Democrats voted for the minority leader, Hakeem Jeffries of New York. Twenty conservatives opposed to McCarthy’s bid rallied behind congressman Byron Donalds of Florida, while congresswoman Victoria Spartz of Indiana, who had supported the Republican leader in earlier rounds of balloting, voted “present”.

Explaining her vote, Spartz said Republicans should “stop wasting everyone’s time” and reconvene only when they have enough votes to elect a speaker.

Despite rounds of negotiations and a plea for unity from Donald Trump, McCarthy’s prospects appeared dimmer after his sixth failed attempt to become speaker. In remarks nominating Donalds for speaker on the fifth vote, far-right conservative congresswoman Lauren Boebert suggested that Trump reverse course and tell McCarthy: “It’s time to withdraw.”

But, hours later, McCarthy supporters were more upbeat as Republicans narrowly won a vote to adjourn the House until Thursday, suggesting to Capitol Hill reporters that a deal to elect McCarthy might still be within reach.

All House business, including the swearing-in of new members, has come to a halt until the speakership is determined.

The continued stalemate has infused even routine votes, like the vote on whether to adjourn the House until Thursday, with unusual drama. There was shouting, arguments and confusion on the floor of the House on Wednesday night, as Democrats voted to block the Republican move to adjourn, with the goal of forcing McCarthy into facing a fourth unsuccessful vote in a single day. Democrats lost that effort by only a handful of votes, a possible sign of more struggles to come as a divided Republican party takes their narrow majority in the House of Representatives, after a smaller-than-expected series of wins in the midterm elections.

The tension in the House chamber seemed to ratchet up on Wednesday as the votes stretched on. Nominating McCarthy for the sixth ballot, congresswoman Kat Cammack claimed without evidence that Democrats had been drinking alcohol during the speakership election, prompting boos from the other side of the aisle. When Republican congressman Scott Perry stood to nominate Donalds, Democrats jeered him over his alleged involvement in efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election.

Joe Biden expressed dismay over the Republican standoff, telling reporters that the gridlock could damage America’s international reputation.

“I just think it’s a little embarrassing it’s taking so long,” Biden said before leaving for a trip to Kentucky. “It’s not a good look, it’s not a good thing. This is the United States of America, and I hope they get their act together.”

Many House Democrats reveled in the dysfunction. Several Democratic members tweeted out photos of themselves enjoying popcorn as the floor fight unfolded on Tuesday. Congressman Jimmy Gomez, a Democrat from California who brought his four-month-old to the Capitol for a swearing-in ceremony that has still not happened, tweeted a photo of his son: “Two bottle feeds and multiple diaper changes on the Democratic cloakroom floor. This speaker vote is taking forever!”

In his floor speech, Gallagher acknowledged the chaos that has consumed the election so far and lamented the party’s narrow majority. Trying to put a positive spin on the situation, he celebrated the intra-party tension as the result of vigorous debate.

“The American people gave us an opportunity,” he said. “They’re asking us to do a job, and nobody has laid out a plan – a proactive policy agenda for the direction we want to take this country – in more detail than Kevin McCarthy.”

Before the chamber convened on Wednesday, Trump offered McCarthy his full-throated endorsement, despite offering a more equivocal stance on McCarthy’s leadership the night before.

“VOTE FOR KEVIN, CLOSE THE DEAL, TAKE THE VICTORY,” Trump said in a post on the social media platform Truth Social, warning that a failure to do so would result in a “GIANT & EMBARRASSING DEFEAT”. But his declaration did little to change the minds of the conservatives dug in against McCarthy, some of whom are the former president’s staunchest allies on Capitol Hill.

Other prominent Trump loyalists, including the Georgia congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene and Ohio congressman Jim Jordan among them, have joined the former president and rallied around McCarthy and called on their conservative colleagues to join them.

The continued chaos came after the first three votes held on Tuesday failed to produce a winner. Across those three ballots, the ranks of McCarthy’s Republican detractors only grew, reaching a total of 20 by the time the chamber adjourned on Tuesday evening.

After demanding a number of changes to chamber rules, one anti-McCarthy lawmaker suggested the leader’s handling of policy was to blame for his poor standing among certain conference members. Scott Perry, chair of the House Freedom Caucus, specifically cited the passage of the omnibus government funding bill last month, even though McCarthy fiercely opposed the legislation.

McCarthy “is falsely selling the media he’s conceded to us in the Rules – not ONE bit will do ANYTHING to stop what just happened in the massive $1.7tn, 4,000-page taxpayer theft bill from 12 days ago”, Perry said on Twitter. “We’ll continue to seek a candidate who’ll put an end to this horrible practice.”

Underscoring the acrimony between the rival Republican camps, Gaetz sent a letter to the building caretakers on Tuesday night suggesting that McCarthy was improperly occupying the speaker’s lobby.

“What is the basis in law, House rule, or precedent to allow someone who has placed second in three successive speaker elections to occupy the Speaker of the House Office?” Gaetz wrote. “How long will he remain there before he is considered a squatter?”

As the Republican conference devolved into chaos, House Democrats rallied around their new leader. Jeffries, who on Tuesday became the first Black American to helm either major party’s House caucus, said Republicans’ failure to elect a speaker was a “sad day” for the institution and democracy.

“This is a crisis of the Congress and it’s a crisis at the hands of the Republican dysfunction,” California congressman Pete Aguilar, the House Democratic Caucus chair, said at a Wednesday morning press conference. Aguilar said Democrats were united behind Jeffries, whom party members emphatically nominated as their choice for speaker.

Due to the conservative defections, Jeffries won the most votes overall on each of the first six ballots, but he fell short of the 218 needed to be elected speaker.
My understanding is that Congress can't do anything until a speaker is selected. So I'm wondering how long this will go on.
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Re: Republicans are having trouble electing a speaker of the house

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They keep taking votes until they get a Speaker. Could be seven votes could be seventy votes. At some point he will have to withdraw and we will get someone else. There are possibilities from the Republicans agree on another old white man, or some sort of power sharing agreement between them..

Hell there's a chance for a less crazy Republican to find four other Republicans friends and get the Democrats on board and get nominated that way.

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Re: Republicans are having trouble electing a speaker of the house

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I wonder what concessions the Democrats could get in exchange for voting for a Republican speaker.

Though I suspect they will need to get bored of the current Republican dysfunction before they even consider that. Well, unless enough Republicans get fed up with this mess that they vote present or for Jeffries and make him speaker.
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Re: Republicans are having trouble electing a speaker of the house

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I've been finding it darkly hilarious that the minority leader (Democrat Jeffries) has been consistently getting more votes in every round than McCarthy. Not enough to get elected, but more than the Republican frothing for the Speakership.

The Republicans are broken. Unfortunately, at this point their brokenness amounts to yet another Republican-instigated government shut-down. Their lunatic fringe is not there to govern, they are there to disrupt.

The only way out is some sort of compromise, but that's exactly what the Republican fringe refuses to do. I have no idea how this ends.
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Re: Republicans are having trouble electing a speaker of the house

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bilateralrope wrote: 2023-01-05 07:00am I wonder what concessions the Democrats could get in exchange for voting for a Republican speaker.
I've heard "no investigations of any Democrat" bandied about as a possibility, but nothing official.
bilateralrope wrote: 2023-01-05 07:00amThough I suspect they will need to get bored of the current Republican dysfunction before they even consider that. Well, unless enough Republicans get fed up with this mess that they vote present or for Jeffries and make him speaker.
If that happens bring some mops - we'll need to clean up after a lot of heads asplode after such a thing. But it might be a good thing in the long run.
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Re: Republicans are having trouble electing a speaker of the house

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Broomstick wrote: 2023-01-05 07:02am I've been finding it darkly hilarious that the minority leader (Democrat Jeffries) has been consistently getting more votes in every round than McCarthy. Not enough to get elected, but more than the Republican frothing for the Speakership.

The Republicans are broken. Unfortunately, at this point their brokenness amounts to yet another Republican-instigated government shut-down. Their lunatic fringe is not there to govern, they are there to disrupt.

The only way out is some sort of compromise, but that's exactly what the Republican fringe refuses to do. I have no idea how this ends.
I've seen some people speculating that 2 years of Republicans dysfunction will help Democrats in 2024 and that was before the Republicans had trouble selecting a speaker.
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Re: Republicans are having trouble electing a speaker of the house

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bilateralrope wrote: 2023-01-05 07:00am I wonder what concessions the Democrats could get in exchange for voting for a Republican speaker.

Though I suspect they will need to get bored of the current Republican dysfunction before they even consider that. Well, unless enough Republicans get fed up with this mess that they vote present or for Jeffries and make him speaker.

The reason why the Freedom Caucus can make the demands they're making is because they know that polarization of the GOP base means that if McCarthy (or anyone else) tried to make a deal with the Dems it would kill them with the base, end their future as a rep, and kill any funding they might be able to get. Meanwhile the Freedom Caucus can use its deployment of dysfunction to solidify its position with its base and fundraise to the max, which means it's win-win for them to be as maximalist as possible.

Beyond that, I just think they really really really don't like Kevin McCarthy, and he is a man who has gone out of his way to make himself unlikeable.
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Re: Republicans are having trouble electing a speaker of the house

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Straha wrote: 2023-01-05 08:17am
bilateralrope wrote: 2023-01-05 07:00am I wonder what concessions the Democrats could get in exchange for voting for a Republican speaker.

Though I suspect they will need to get bored of the current Republican dysfunction before they even consider that. Well, unless enough Republicans get fed up with this mess that they vote present or for Jeffries and make him speaker.

The reason why the Freedom Caucus can make the demands they're making is because they know that polarization of the GOP base means that if McCarthy (or anyone else) tried to make a deal with the Dems it would kill them with the base, end their future as a rep, and kill any funding they might be able to get. Meanwhile the Freedom Caucus can use its deployment of dysfunction to solidify its position with its base and fundraise to the max, which means it's win-win for them to be as maximalist as possible.

Beyond that, I just think they really really really don't like Kevin McCarthy, and he is a man who has gone out of his way to make himself unlikeable.
Yes, the Freedom Caucus does have a lot of power here. Though I suspect that they are overestimating how much power they really have. Leading them to reaching too far with their demands, instead of negotiating a compromise.
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Re: Republicans are having trouble electing a speaker of the house

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bilateralrope wrote: 2023-01-05 09:09am
Yes, the Freedom Caucus does have a lot of power here. Though I suspect that they are overestimating how much power they really have. Leading them to reaching too far with their demands, instead of negotiating a compromise.
But that's the thing. Their power comes from being unwilling to compromise and willing and able to blow everything up.
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Re: Republicans are having trouble electing a speaker of the house

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Other than the fact that nothing is getting done, I have to admit that I find this shit hilarious. The GOP is really showing their ass here.

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Re: Republicans are having trouble electing a speaker of the house

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Ralin wrote: 2023-01-05 09:24am But that's the thing. Their power comes from being unwilling to compromise and willing and able to blow everything up.
Yes. They have a lot of power. I've seen other reporting about the major concessions they got McCarthy to agree to. They just aren't aware that their power has limits. At some point, everyone else decides that it's better to let them blow everything up.

Also, despite all of them voting for Jim Jordan instead of McCarthy, Jim Jordan doesn't want the job. For all that they don't want McCarthy, they haven't picked any alternative who wants to be speaker.
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Re: Republicans are having trouble electing a speaker of the house

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bilateralrope wrote: 2023-01-05 01:53pm
Ralin wrote: 2023-01-05 09:24am But that's the thing. Their power comes from being unwilling to compromise and willing and able to blow everything up.
Yes. They have a lot of power. I've seen other reporting about the major concessions they got McCarthy to agree to. They just aren't aware that their power has limits. At some point, everyone else decides that it's better to let them blow everything up.

Also, despite all of them voting for Jim Jordan instead of McCarthy, Jim Jordan doesn't want the job. For all that they don't want McCarthy, they haven't picked any alternative who wants to be speaker.

McCarthy has no power without them, and in a world where the GOP cannot work with Democrats for structural reasons the HFC has not come close to the limits on their power.
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Re: Republicans are having trouble electing a speaker of the house

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AOC has released a video on her Instagram on what happens when you don't elect a speaker. It's almost an hour long, I haven't watched it myself yet but I'm told it's very informative.
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Re: Republicans are having trouble electing a speaker of the house

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On a sidenote, TIL the Houses of Congress lack any rules against bringing food or even alcohol onto the floor. A rule that they probably can't change without a Speaker.

I'm adding "The Democrats escalate to arming themselves with custard pies" to my 2023 bingo card.
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Re: Republicans are having trouble electing a speaker of the house

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Zaune wrote: 2023-01-05 05:09pm On a sidenote, TIL the Houses of Congress lack any rules against bringing food or even alcohol onto the floor. A rule that they probably can't change without a Speaker.

I'm adding "The Democrats escalate to arming themselves with custard pies" to my 2023 bingo card.
If someone brings in booze, and gets a bunch of the Republicans drunk,and those drunkards help vote a new Speaker in, is that legal?
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Re: Republicans are having trouble electing a speaker of the house

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Good. Fuck'em. May they keep on failing.
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Re: Republicans are having trouble electing a speaker of the house

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bilateralrope wrote: 2023-01-05 07:00am I wonder what concessions the Democrats could get in exchange for voting for a Republican speaker.
Unless there's some sort of binding agreement, I don't know what the Republicans could say that Democrats could trust.
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Re: Republicans are having trouble electing a speaker of the house

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Straha wrote: 2023-01-05 02:00pm
McCarthy has no power without them, and in a world where the GOP cannot work with Democrats for structural reasons the HFC has not come close to the limits on their power.
Then why have they had so much trouble in getting a speaker elected ?
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Re: Republicans are having trouble electing a speaker of the house

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You seem to be under the mistaken assumption that the HFC actually wants the government to function.
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Re: Republicans are having trouble electing a speaker of the house

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I was expecting them to at least get the speaker selected, so they can start bullshit investigations like one into that laptop they claim belongs to Hunter Biden.
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Re: Republicans are having trouble electing a speaker of the house

Post by madd0c0t0r2 »

On the prediction market site I am on, the first market ran between 1 and 15 votes. That's maxed out so they started a new market for 1-50 votes. Then they started one with a log scale....
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Re: Republicans are having trouble electing a speaker of the house

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bilateralrope wrote: 2023-01-05 11:39pm
Straha wrote: 2023-01-05 02:00pm
McCarthy has no power without them, and in a world where the GOP cannot work with Democrats for structural reasons the HFC has not come close to the limits on their power.
Then why have they had so much trouble in getting a speaker elected ?
Because this is a hostage negotiation.

You're thinking about this as a programattic goal, as if both sides have mutually shared interests and want to come together to achieve those interests, and in one, very broad, sense that's true, but this isn't a fight over that.

The dissentors here can, broadly, be understood to be in two camps, with an understanding that they are not mutually exclusive:

1. The line jumpers/disruptors. The way the House has worked for generations is that everyone who serves in the House gets assigned to committees where real work of hammering out legislation gets done, stuff is reported out from committees to the broader House and there the Speaker gets to control when those bills A. get heard and B. if they pass or not. This means that just being a member of the House as a whole is relatively inconsequential, and because the power accrues to the various committees and from there is more focused in the hands of the subcommittee chairs and, ultimately, the committee chair (all of which are assigned almost seniority, if there is interest in the chair) control over the committees is the most important thing you can get. A core demand from groups of rebels is that they get jumped in line for promotion to a variety of committee subchairs and that they, effectively, get new committees with special treatment. They also want to change house procedure so that bills can be amended (and constrained) on the floor during passage by the whole house, which would have the effect of dramatically decreasing the ultimate power of both the committee and the Speaker of the House.

These people do not care who is speaker, what they care about is getting the gonads of the speaker in a jar, and because the more they hold out the more they get there is no reason for them to stop making increasing levels of demands.

2. The people who really truly just don't like Kevin McCarthy. Matt Gaetz, Boebert, Good, and a few others do not like Kevin McCarthy. They do not like him at all. They do not like him in a hat, they do not like him with a cat, they do not like him anywhere, especially not the speaker's chair. Some of this is because he's a schmuck, some of this is revenge for things they think he did to their friends like Steve "Why don't we say nice things about White Supremacy anymore?" King some of it is the accumulation of a grievances from petty deals done over the ages. They want him gone.

However, the party has voted for him to be its leader, by a pretty wide majority. In ye Olde Days this is all that would matter, the party's level of control (coupled with what the power of a Rep used to be before they got rid of pork and earmarks) meant you had to stay in line or else. Except the tenuous nature of the GOP majority and the rebels' financial independence (Gaetz and Boebert are top level fundraisers and have control over swaths of the rabid base of the party) means that those old threats no longer matter, and they are free to stymie McCarthy as long as they like. Conversely, this also means that the rest of the Party really doesn't want to negotiate with them. If you give five schmucks veto ability over your chocie of leader then what's the point of having a majority vote for leader anymore? So there's no incentive for them to betray McCarthy in the short term because in the long-term it's a losing proposition for them (and for whoever replaced him.) But that means this continues as the world's most hilarious game of chicken, because then neither side has any reason to ratchet down or de-escalate.
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Re: Republicans are having trouble electing a speaker of the house

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House called back into session at 10 PM thinking they have a deal.

They do, Gaetz and Boebert agree to vote present in return for whatever concession.

But because McCarthy can't do math, not enough to be elected speaker.

Womp Womp
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Re: Republicans are having trouble electing a speaker of the house

Post by Straha »

On the 15th ballot Kevin McCarthy is elected by getting five dissenters to abstain after there was almost literal fisticuffs on the floor.

The debate on the rules package has been kicked to next week. Who knows what that will look like.
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Re: Republicans are having trouble electing a speaker of the house

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The rules basically give this fringe group veto rights over the whole Republican party... lol
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