White House: Classified documents found at Biden's Delaware home from his time as vice president

[EnterpriseSovereign]

White House: Classified documents found at Biden's Delaware home from his time as vice president.

Documents with classified markings from US President Joe Biden's time as vice president have been found at his home in Wilmington, Delaware, the White House said on Thursday.

This comes just days after it was disclosed that sensitive documents were also found at the office of his former Washington institute.

Richard Sauber, a special counsel to the president, said a “small number” of documents with classified markings were found in a storage space in Biden's garage in Wilmington, with one document being located in an adjacent room.

The now President Biden had served as vice president under Barack Obama for eight years.

Sauber said the Department of Justice was “immediately notified” after the documents were found and that department lawyers took custody of the records.

On Monday the Justice Department said that it was reviewing a batch of potentially classified documents found in the Washington office space of President Biden’s former institute.

Mr Sauber said “a small number of documents with classified markings” were discovered as Biden’s personal attorneys were clearing out the offices of the Penn Biden Centre - where the president had kept an office after he left the vice presidency in 2017, until shortly before he launched his presidential campaign in 2019.

Mr Sauber added the documents were found on November 2, 2022 in a “locked closet” in the office.

Attorneys immediately alerted the White House Counsel’s office, who notified the National Archives and Records Administration - which took custody of the documents the next day, Mr Sauber said.

“Since that discovery, the President’s personal attorneys have cooperated with the Archives and the Department of Justice in a process to ensure that any Obama-Biden Administration records are appropriately in the possession of the Archives," he said.

[Solauren]

I want to know this - WHY the * were they in his house in the first place?

[The_Saint]

I want to know this - WHY the * were they in his house in the first place?

Why were classified documents at a golf club?

To be fair... sounds like Biden's attorney's/minions are being far more cooperative/proactive than some other notable individual.

[Solauren]

No, what I mean is - WHY did he think it was a good idea to take them out of a secure location in the first place?

[Zaune]

No, what I mean is - WHY did he think it was a good idea to take them out of a secure location in the first place?

It was probably down to human error: It got misfiled in a manilla envelope of non-classified documents that were then later boxed up for storage without more than a cursory check, and if the missing documents were noticed at all they were probably deemed too low-priority to trigger a more thorough search. This sort of thing has probably happened to every President all the way back to Gerald Ford, since most of the current document-retention policies are there because of Nixon.

[Lord Revan]

Yeah unless there starts to show more documents then found now, honestly I'd file it under "human error", the problem with Trump wasn't classified documents were found where they shouldn't be but rather the twofold issue of there being a lot of documents and that Trump tried to retain them via deception.

Essentially the difference here is that when documents he shouldn't have were found in Biden's possesion he (well his lawyers) notified the proper authorities ASAP and those documents were taken where they were suppose to be. On the other hand Trump or people under him did their all for the the classified documents Trump had would not be returned to the proper authorities. There's very much a difference here or at least appears to be.

[LadyTevar]

A Meme I've seen going around on Facebook makes it pretty easy to understand:

Biden -- "I borrowed some books from the library and forgot I had them. Here they are, fine me for the days missing."

Trump -- "Books? I didn't borrow any books. If I did I gave them all back. You can't prove I have any library books. Oh, those? Those aren't your books, they're MY Books. No you cant have them back! What do you mean Warrant!! YOU CAN"T DO THIS! I DECLARED THEM MY BOOKS! NO I'm not Hiding More Books!! THIS IS PERSECUTION!!!"

[bilateralrope]

Special counsel appointed to probe Biden's handling of classified documents

Garland said Robert Hur, who served as the top federal prosecutor in Maryland under Trump, will act as a quasi-independent prosecutor to determine whether classified records from Biden's time as vice president had been improperly stored at his residence in Delaware and a think tank in Washington.

No surprise here. Biden mishandled classified documents, so the special council is needed to figure out what happened.

[LadyTevar]

Special counsel appointed to probe Biden's handling of classified documents

Garland said Robert Hur, who served as the top federal prosecutor in Maryland under Trump, will act as a quasi-independent prosecutor to determine whether classified records from Biden's time as vice president had been improperly stored at his residence in Delaware and a think tank in Washington.

No surprise here. Biden mishandled classified documents, so the special council is needed to figure out what happened.

Someone said Robert Hur was "Trump-Era", and implied he was GOP. Interesting choice, I guess so the GOP cant' say there was a cover-up with a GOP was doing the investigation.

But Biden's lawyers are being very clever, immediately sharing everything with the media, making it all open and transparent.

[Solauren]

No, what I mean is - WHY did he think it was a good idea to take them out of a secure location in the first place?

It was probably down to human error: It got misfiled in a manilla envelope of non-classified documents that were then later boxed up for storage without more than a cursory check, and if the missing documents were noticed at all they were probably deemed too low-priority to trigger a more thorough search. This sort of thing has probably happened to every President all the way back to Gerald Ford, since most of the current document-retention policies are there because of Nixon.

Why did he take anything home in the first place? He's retired. Give all the documents related to work, back to work, except stuff you personally wrote.

[bilateralrope]

Why did he take anything home in the first place? He's retired. Give all the documents related to work, back to work, except stuff you personally wrote.

My guess is that everyone intended to return those documents when Biden's term as VP ended. But someone made a mistake and put them in the wrong box.

[Zaune]

Either that or he chose to retain copies of stuff like the minutes of particularly significant meetings for his own records, so that if he ever chose to write his memoirs or engage the services of a biographer he could look up exact details without having to file a request with the national archives.

[Solauren]

Either that or he chose to retain copies of stuff like the minutes of particularly significant meetings for his own records, so that if he ever chose to write his memoirs or engage the services of a biographer he could look up exact details without having to file a request with the national archives.

That, I can understand. So, bad packing skills. THAT I can understand.

You will not believe some of the shit I've found in Dockets at work.

[bilateralrope]

Either that or he chose to retain copies of stuff like the minutes of particularly significant meetings for his own records, so that if he ever chose to write his memoirs or engage the services of a biographer he could look up exact details without having to file a request with the national archives.

If classified documents are minutes of a meeting, then talking about that meeting at all in a memoir seems like a bad idea.

[Straha]

No, what I mean is - WHY did he think it was a good idea to take them out of a secure location in the first place?

It was probably down to human error: It got misfiled in a manilla envelope of non-classified documents that were then later boxed up for storage without more than a cursory check, and if the missing documents were noticed at all they were probably deemed too low-priority to trigger a more thorough search. This sort of thing has probably happened to every President all the way back to Gerald Ford, since most of the current document-retention policies are there because of Nixon.

Why did he take anything home in the first place? He's retired. Give all the documents related to work, back to work, except stuff you personally wrote.

Members of the NSC, POTUS, and VPOTUS have the right to bring classified documents to their offices and to their domicile and other offices in ways that other members of the Federal Government simply do not.

Initial reports are that this stuff was found amongst briefing documents and Think Tank meeting notes. Gut instinct is that this stuff was used during relatively low level innocuous meetings, the Biden staff and Biden shoved everything into folders after the meetings, and that was that. The US security apparatus is notorious for being very happy to classify even the most innocuous of documents, which would also explain why they didn't flag for anyone as being included. (Jeffrey Lewis loves to tell the story about how he was at a public panel on North Korean nuclear weapons discussing OSINT and in the middle of his presentation taken, basically, from Google Maps and twitter another panelist started whispering in his ear warning him not to discuss classified intel.) Eventually some low level staffer is rummaging through shit, sees a (C) on something, and instead of burning/shredding the documents does the right thing and reports it up the chain. Leading to this.


Today NPR was reporting that they found more documents. Similar story, Biden's lawyer was doing a final sweep of his house, found a document that was classified, stopped the search because he's not cleared and called in the DOJ who sent over the FBI and they found five pages of classified material. Shocking.

[Zaune]

Also worth noting that all these classified documents have been lying undisturbed at the bottom of a box or the back of a filing cabinet in Mr Biden's basement since at least the end of his term as VP, so even if there was anything in there that could do real harm in the wrong hands at the time it's probably so outdated as to be largely worthless by now.

[Lord Revan]

Yeah everything I keep hearing about this is that it's probably something that wouldn't have even made into the news if not for Trumps "problems" of misplacing classified documents.

unless the GOP is insanely vindictive (and possibly even then), it wouldn't surprise me at all if nothing came of this, just a case "a mistake was made it has been since corrected, no further action is warranted".

EDIT:as I said previously the issue with Trump wasn't so much that he had classified documents but rather the scale of the classified material in his possession and his reluctance to hand them over.

[Eternal_Freedom]

This whole thing does rather bring to mind a SW quote from Thrawn that I really like: "The difference between an error and a mistake? An error becomes a mistake when it's not corrected."

[bilateralrope]

No, what I mean is - WHY did he think it was a good idea to take them out of a secure location in the first place?

It was probably down to human error: It got misfiled in a manilla envelope of non-classified documents that were then later boxed up for storage without more than a cursory check, and if the missing documents were noticed at all they were probably deemed too low-priority to trigger a more thorough search. This sort of thing has probably happened to every President all the way back to Gerald Ford, since most of the current document-retention policies are there because of Nixon.

Why did he take anything home in the first place? He's retired. Give all the documents related to work, back to work, except stuff you personally wrote.

There is a podcast called Jack where one host is Andrew McCabe, a former deputy director of the FBI. It's mainly about the special council investigation into Trump, Jan 6, etc, but the latest episode (#7, Jan 15 2023) starts with a discussion of how classified documents, and those of higher secrecy, are handled day to day and the impracticalities of restricting them further.

That should make it easier to understand why this was probably a mistake by some of Biden's staff.

[Solauren]

Oh, the second Zaune mentioned his memoiors, it clued in why he would be taking non-classified stuff home, and how someone not examining everything properly could lead to this.

As I said, I've found absolutely shocking stuff in Dockets at work.
i.e Stuff that belonged in another docket (which had to then be tracked down), Food wrappers, reciepts unrelated to work, personal records from the person that last created or handled the docket, etc.

[bilateralrope]

Mike Pence: Classified documents found at former vice-president's home

7 hours ago
By Mattea Bubalo
BBC News

Classified files have been found at ex-US Vice-President Mike Pence's home in the latest discovery of secret papers at the homes of officials who have served in the top ranks of government.

The documents, discovered by a lawyer last week for Mr Pence at his Indiana home, have been handed over to the FBI.

Investigators are already looking into President Joe Biden and ex-President Donald Trump's possession of files.

Mr Trump faces a criminal investigation for allegedly mishandling papers.

Representatives for Mr Pence sent a letter to the National Archives alerting them to the documents.

The FBI came to the former vice-president's home to collect the documents, bypassing "standard procedures" and requesting "direct possession" of them, lawyers added in a separate letter.

Under the Presidential Records Act, White House records are supposed to go to the National Archives once an administration ends. Regulations require such files to be stored securely.

A "small number of documents bearing classified markings" were "inadvertently boxed and transported" to Mr Pence's home at the end of Mr Trump's presidency, his lawyer wrote in a letter shared with US media.

The latest development emerged after Mr Pence sought legal help from specialists in handling classified documents "out of an abundance of caution".

He asked for help "after it became public that documents with classified markings were found in President Joe Biden's Wilmington residence", the letter read.

Lawyers found "a small number of documents that could potentially contain sensitive or classified information", which were locked by the former vice-president in a safe.

An aide to Mr Pence told CBS News, the BBC's US partner, the documents were stored in boxes in an insecure area of Mr Pence's home. The aide said they were taped shut.

According to US media, the documents are believed to have first been taken to Mr Pence's home in Virginia before later being sent to Indiana.

After the letter became public, Mr Trump came to Mr Pence's defence, taking to his Truth Social social media platform to say that he is "an innocent man".

"He never did anything knowingly dishonest in his life," Mr Trump wrote. "Leave him alone!!!"

Mr Pence had repeatedly said over the last months that he did not believe he was in possession of classified documents.

Earlier this month, he told CBS that he was confident reviews of documents in his home were done "in a thorough and careful way".

Mr Biden previously said he had "no regrets" over not going public before the midterm elections with the news that classified documents had been discovered in his private office.

Six more classified files were found during a 13-hour search of President Biden's home in Delaware on Friday, his lawyer Bob Bauer said in a statement on Saturday.

The documents unearthed so far are believed to be related to Mr Biden's eight-year tenure as vice-president under former President Barack Obama.

Mr Biden offered access "to his home to allow DoJ [the Department of Justice] to conduct a search of the entire premises for potential vice-presidential records and potential classified material", Mr Bauer added.

Earlier this month, Mr Biden's lawyers said a first batch of classified documents had been found on 2 November at the Penn Biden Center, a think tank that the president founded in Washington DC.

A second batch of records was found on 20 December in the garage at his Wilmington home, while another document was found in a storage space at the house on 12 January, his lawyers said.

Representatives for former Presidents Obama and George W Bush told Reuters on Tuesday that their administrations had turned over all documents to the National Archives after leaving office.

The discoveries at the homes of Mr Pence and Mr Biden come as Mr Trump faces a special counsel inquiry over his alleged mishandling of documents.

Hundred of classified records were found at Mr Trump's Florida Mar-a-Lago residence - Mr Trump and his lawyers resisted handing over the documents until the FBI raided the Florida holiday home last August.

He denied any wrongdoing, alleging that President Biden was being treated more favourably by the FBI.

Document discovery timeline

• 2 November 2022 - First batch of classified documents found at the Penn Biden Center, a think tank that President Joe Biden founded in Washington DC
• 20 December - Second batch of records found in the garage of Joe Biden's Wilmington home
• 12 January - Document found in a storage space at Mr Biden's Wilmington home
• 19 January - FBI agents come to Mike Pence's Indiana home to collect files
• 20 January - Department of Justice investigators discover six more classified documents during a 13-hour search of Biden's home in Delaware.

I'm posting this here because it looks like Pence did the same thing as Biden. Someone got sloppy handling classified documents, they got put somewhere they shouldn't be, then handed over promptly when they were discovered. Worth an investigation to make sure that's all that happened, but I'm not expecting anything serious to be discovered.

[Lord Revan]

Yeah the difference here seems to be that while Pence and Biden connected the proper authorities when classified material was found, while Trump did his all to hide the fact he had classified material.

[Eternal_Freedom]

I'm less inclined to say it's an honest error corrected ASAP thanks to this bit: "[Pence] asked for help "after it became public that documents with classified markings were found in President Joe Biden's Wilmington residence", the letter read."

Sounds like he knew of them but waited until Biden admitted it so he wouldn't look as bad.

Still far less shitty than Trump's actions over it all however.

[Prannon]

I'm less inclined to say it's an honest error corrected ASAP thanks to this bit: "[Pence] asked for help "after it became public that documents with classified markings were found in President Joe Biden's Wilmington residence", the letter read."

Sounds like he knew of them but waited until Biden admitted it so he wouldn't look as bad.

Still far less shitty than Trump's actions over it all however.

I think it's more likely that Pence was sitting there in his office one day, chin in hands, contemplating something to the effect of:

"Hmm... they found it with Trump, and they found it with Biden now too. I'm running for president soon... best have the guys check and make sure I'm clean now instead of during the primary."

It's a natural reaction. When others get caught fucking up, you generally check to make sure that you are not also fucking up without knowing.

[Zaune]

I would have expected Pence to have the documents quietly disposed of rather than admit any wrongdoing on his part, but you're not wrong.