D&D: Honor Among Thieves

[LadyTevar]

And the druid turning into an owlbear, which is not a thing, owlbears not being natural animals.

No, they're not. And thank you, I'd forgotten that bit. But DAMN if it doesn't follow The Rule Of Cool!!

Now, if you want to argue "Natural Animal" and assume 'non-intelligent/sapient', there are several DragonKin that would fall into that. Various wyrms, wyverns, dragon turtles....

[Dass.Kapital]

And the druid turning into an owlbear, which is not a thing, owlbears not being natural animals.

No, they're not. And thank you, I'd forgotten that bit. But DAMN if it doesn't follow The Rule Of Cool!!

Now, if you want to argue "Natural Animal" and assume 'non-intelligent/sapient', there are several DragonKin that would fall into that. Various wyrms, wyverns, dragon turtles....

Hello.

My personal take on the 'Shifter' as she's depicted so far?

While the character migth pass them selves off as a "Druid'. I am more betting that she's a Gold Dragon 'In disguise".

They have a Black and a Red. Pulling a Gold out at some opportunly dramatic moment would seem the thing to do.

Cheers.

[LadyTevar]

Hello.

My personal take on the 'Shifter' as she's depicted so far?

While the character migth pass them selves off as a "Druid'. I am more betting that she's a Gold Dragon 'In disguise".

They have a Black and a Red. Pulling a Gold out at some opportunly dramatic moment would seem the thing to do.

Cheers.

THAT would be Amusing, and perfect example of GM Dues ex Machina.
We'll have to see which way it goes.

[Solauren]

There were Feats in 3E that let Druids wildshape into Magical Beasts, and other Creature Types. Yeah, some were 'epic level,' but 'Director Fiat' is probably the same as 'DM House Rules' in this case.

[LadyTevar]

There were Feats in 3E that let Druids wildshape into Magical Beasts, and other Creature Types. Yeah, some were 'epic level,' but 'Director Fiat' is probably the same as 'DM House Rules' in this case.

Call it what it is -- "THE RULE OF COOL"

[Tsyroc]

I'm not a big D & D fan or participant but these trailers look good.

I am really vaguely familiar with the game from the early 1980's and this seems like it takes that into consideration.

That being said. I think this film will do worse box office wise than it deservers.

IMO includes stuff that that if it was in a 1990's or earlier D&D movie/show it would have blown my mine and likely got an awful lot of NON D&D people at least interest in the movie because of how fun/bizarre it was. Sorry Krull.

[Batman]

The thing is apparently getting a german localizazion (so a commercial for it on TV this week) so it doesn't appear to be quite as dead as we feared.

[LadyTevar]

The thing is apparently getting a german localizazion (so a commercial for it on TV this week) so it doesn't appear to be quite as dead as we feared.

Good to know.

I am planning on seeing it in Theater, which is something I've NOT been able to do for any of the recent MCU movies. I want to support this movie as best I can, so they'll make more like it.

[Adam Reynolds]

If you haven't and are interested in this, you really should check out The Legend of Vox Machina, an adaptation of the somewhat famous Critical Role actual play. It requires an Amazon Prime subscription, which I don't love, but it's a solid show overall. The second season just ended.

Even cooler is that they are also going to adapt The Mighty Nein, which I'd say is even better based on parts of the original stream I've seen.

[LadyTevar]

If you haven't and are interested in this, you really should check out The Legend of Vox Machina, an adaptation of the somewhat famous Critical Role actual play. It requires an Amazon Prime subscription, which I don't love, but it's a solid show overall. The second season just ended.

Even cooler is that they are also going to adapt The Mighty Nein, which I'd say is even better based on parts of the original stream I've seen.

I haven't watched because I don't have Prime and at this point in time can't afford any streaming.

[Adam Reynolds]

Based on the trailers I thought this was solid, but now I am genuinely impressed:

[LadyTevar]

Based on the trailers I thought this was solid, but now I am genuinely impressed:

The "Question the Dead" is something I have TOTALLY SEEN around a TT Game. At least he's rather blasé about the result "Welp, let's get the shovel and dig up another one."
TBH, the more I see, the more I like about it.

[Sidewinder]

I wonder if anyone read Variety writer Adam B. Vary's 2023 interview with John Francis Daley and Jonathan Goldstein, who co-directed and co-wrote the film?

[VARY:] In that vein, I was really struck in "Honor Among Thieves" that the lead female characters- Michelle Rodriguez’s Holga and Sophia Lillis' Doric- are at the forefront of the action scenes, and the men are often hanging back.

GOLDSTEIN: That was not an attempt at wokeness on our part.

DALEY: Swear to God, it wasn’t. We liked that Holga is the bruiser that does the dirty work for Edgin, and he doesn't like to get his hands dirty. We also love EMASCULATING LEADING MEN.

GOLDSTEIN: Not for woke reasons!

DALEY: Just because it’s funny and fun and fresh. It was the dynamic we had with Rachel McAdams and Jason Bateman's characters in "Game Night."

GOLDSTEIN: Or Tom Holland versus Robert Downey Jr. in "Spider-Man." We like our male heroes to be challenged and not simply heroic.

DALEY: What's funny is that in our casting process on multiple films, we've met movie stars that you would think are comfortable enough in their own skin that they would be able to portray themselves in a vulnerable light. But a lot of them really don’t feel comfortable doing that. Obviously, we won't name a name here, but there is a notable movie star-

GOLDSTEIN: I can think of two.

DALEY:- who is so handsome and awesome and will not make himself look weak. That's so shocking, because to me, that feels like the most fun that you could have as an actor.

GOLDSTEIN: I think they think they love to do that. But when it comes down to it, they're not really willing to look foolish or "less than."

DALEY: We've talked about this before with Chris Pine. What we love about Chris is that he's hyper-aware of that and wants to MAKE HIMSELF LOOK AS BAD AS POSSIBLE, almost to a fault. Sometimes we’re like, "All right, no, you have to be a hero in this moment."

Emphasis mine. YouTube critics I follow, are all infuriated over this, and predicting the film will bomb.

Comments? Do you think statements the directors/writers gave in this interview, will help or hurt the movie?

[Rogue 9]

Jesus, who cares? D&D doesn't have statistical differences between males and females of any given species, and being both player in and GM of mixed-gender gaming groups, I've seen both male and female characters in every conceivable party role by this point. If people want to make an issue of it, that says a lot more about them than the film.

Speaking of which, I don't think this trailer made it into the thread, and the opening of it illustrates that wonderfully:

[Gandalf]

I'm not sure of the problem. Chris Pine likes looking silly, and the writers are happy to oblige.

[LadyTevar]

Emphasis mine. YouTube critics I follow, are all infuriated over this, and predicting the film will bomb.

Comments? Do you think statements the directors/writers gave in this interview, will help or hurt the movie?

"There is no such thing as Bad Publicity".

First, I don't see what they're throwing shit-fits about. Personally, I'll bet 90% of them make female characters on games just to watch the booty, and never realize they're actually making the WOMAN the HERO when they do it.

Also, it won't bomb because all of them will go see the movie just so they can report "EWWW IT STUNK".

[Solauren]

Emphasis mine. YouTube critics I follow, are all infuriated over this, and predicting the film will bomb.

Comments? Do you think statements the directors/writers gave in this interview, will help or hurt the movie?

It's a fantasy game that has had species/racial/gender change/post-mortality ascension/time travel in it since he beginning, who with a brain or knowledge of the source material really fucking cares?

I'm a Male Elf.... I've just had sex with a female gnome, now I'm that female gnome.... now as a female gnome I'm traveling back in time to have sex with my male self to have my own baby....
And in game, it took maybe 5 spells, and less then a day. (Sex Change, Species Change, Time Travel, Cross-breeding spell, Time Travel to return back. Possible spell to have a healthy baby in 9 hours instead of 9 months) And maybe 15 minutes of game play. (More if there is acting involved)

[Lord Revan]

Honestly this comes off as rather funny to me when consider that most popular D&D media besides the game itself is the Critical Role franchise in its various forms and they've not been "anti-Woke" in the way those YT-"critics" would want them to be in fact they've been very inclusive towards people who aren't straight white cis men even if they're not making a fuss about it and as Bi man myself I'm happy to see bi (especially male) characters who aren't just pervy villain which was the default when I was growing up and for a long time after that too (or it was "not too bi" where we were said the character was bi but didn't show it except for fanservice with female characters).

I'm starting to wonder if this is just another case of in-secure men raging over not being depicted as the "strongest" character around.

[LadyTevar]

I'm starting to wonder if this is just another case of in-secure men raging over not being depicted as the "strongest" character around.

Are you kidding? Its TOTALLY insecure men raging over Teh Wimmen being strong, powerful characters.

[Batman]

Women belong in the kitchen and are to have babies, nothing more. It's not like there any working strong female characters.
(Lara Croft, Supergirl, Diana, Katniss, whatever the ladies from the Underworld and Resident Evil Franchises are called) and those people HATE that such characters not only exist, but work and are popular even with male audiences.

[Batman]

In their opinion, us males are supposed to treat women as baby factories, food dispensers, and sex toys. Valen forbid we treat them as PEOPLE leave alone let them be HEROES.

[Lord Revan]

I'm starting to wonder if this is just another case of in-secure men raging over not being depicted as the "strongest" character around.

Are you kidding? Its TOTALLY insecure men raging over Teh Wimmen being strong, powerful characters.

Yeah probably should used sarcasm tags there, as yeah there really isn't any doubt so my line was more of the sarcastic "I wonder if could be *insert the thing it blindly obviously is*" then expressing actual doubt on the matter.

[Rogue 9]

New clip.

[Grand Moff Yenchin]

New clip.

57 seconds. If you see them, you see them (and yes, later in the clip they show up again!)

[Adam Reynolds]

Emphasis mine. YouTube critics I follow, are all infuriated over this, and predicting the film will bomb.

Comments? Do you think statements the directors/writers gave in this interview, will help or hurt the movie?

This is something that is said every time a piece of "woke media" comes out. If they are right and it does tank they can claim they are the cause, if they are wrong they just ignore the fact that they previously said this(like with Captain Marvel or Black Panther). It creates a situation in which every work that is "woke" has to be perfect or it will be dogpiled.

The opposite even happened with Top Gun Maverick last year, with conservatives claiming that it was successful because it was anti-woke and pro-American rather than that it was successful because Tom Cruise is a maniac who insisted that they used scenes in an actual maneuvering aircraft that gave it such a visceral feeling it was hard not to enjoy it.

In this case, there is also the added problem that there is the anti-WOTC backlash that is still ongoing despite everything. If there is a loss here it will be a result of that.