Warcraft(1,2,3) VS Lord of the Rings

Lt. Nebfer · Post by **Lt. Nebfer** » 2002-08-22 08:55pm

have fun

Captain Cyran · Post by **Captain Cyran** » 2002-08-22 09:42pm

I'd have to go with LotR on this one, with Gandalf I think most anything they send at them would get crushed by him, not to mention Sauron and his ring of power (he ain't dead yet, and eventually he would find WarCraft to be a thorn in his side). It would be close but gotta give it to LotR.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-08-23 01:49am

First Age: Absolute massacre for the Middle Earth forces. Morogoth and his armies would absoluely crush any foe sent against him. He has hordes of Balrogs and Dragons; and those were far more powerful than thoe of later ages.

The elven and human forces would be a tough opponent as well but it would be far more even. If the Valar intervene on their behalf though, it'd be a bitchslappingbeyond belief.

Second and Third Ages: It's possible that the warcraft forces will win. The Valar have foresworn Middle Earth for the most part, they could turn the tide but may well sit it out. The elevish forces are waning and they're the heavy weights of those left. The Numenorians can stand up to the warcraft forces if they unite. It'll be a tough fight but they can win.

Sauron and his armies are a wild card. If he fights the warcraft forces he'll turn the tide for Middle Earth. He may though, decide to corrupt and/or seduce the warcraft forces. If he succeeds, he'll be capble of taking over both sides.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-08-23 06:23am

Defiantly Warcraft. The Forces of warcraft had plate armor and effective gunpowder weapons, while LOTR forces have little better then mail armor and bows, at least in the book. The movie has some plate armor.

Really, where looking at a tech difference of hundreds of years, and Warcraft has the numbers and magic to match what Middle Earth has.

Smiling Bandit · Post by **Smiling Bandit** » 2002-08-23 10:04am

There isn't enogh info on the Warcraft forces. besides, the gunpowder they use is not particularly effective.

Lt. Nebfer · Post by **Lt. Nebfer** » 2002-08-23 10:08am

Ill go with warcraft (on wc3)
on one side we have the human(including Dwarves&High Elves),orcs(Plus Troll's,Turans) and the Night Elves.
Vs mainly a force that at this time can hardly fight with each other.
at least in warcraft the orc's turn out to be good guys.

the only guy warcraft will have problems with is souron(as he cant be killed with normol meanes)

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2002-08-23 11:22am

I'm going with WC overall. The only problems they will have is the first age really. There I think LOTR will win (I do not know enought about the burning legion to say wether they win or not). But the second age and third age is just toast, how are they going to win against armies with air support?

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-08-23 02:04pm

The Forces of warcraft had plate armor and effective gunpowder weapons, while LOTR forces have little better then mail armor and bows, at least in the book.

The LotR mail armor is as effective as plate armor in WC. It's capable of turning arrows, spears and swords. Look at the effectiveness instead of blinding assuming superiority.

WC gunpowder is really no better than bows and arrows or traditional seige weapons. Again, look at effectiveness.

But the second age and third age is just toast, how are they going to win against armies with air support?

The air support from WC isn't that impressive. It's all within a bow shot of the ground and it can be brought down with a few arrows. Add a few eleven archers and they're pincushions in seconds.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-08-23 02:16pm

with warcraft (on wc3)
on one side we have the human(including Dwarves&High Elves),orcs(Plus Troll's,Turans) and the Night Elves.
Vs mainly a force that at this time can hardly fight with each other.

The warcraft forces have their own internal diffuculties. The Alliance fell apart in a matter of years. Heck, members were stabbing each other in the back DURING the war. And simply having a lot species isn't any advantage; most of those have age old feuds with each other that'll boil over given a chance.

The Elves and Numenorians were close allies since the end of the First Age. They both have large and well equipped armies and will work together to face a common threat. The Longbeard dwarves will certainly stand with the elves and men.

Sauron's forces are all at his beck and call. So they don't need to worry about interspecies cooperation.

the only guy warcraft will have problems with is souron(as he cant be killed with normol meanes)

If it's the first age, you'll have to reckon with Morogoth, Sauron's old boss. He'd squash even the toughest of the Legion like a bug.

Even later, you'll have to deal with the Nazgul and their Wraith army. Neither can be killed by normal means; it requires weapons deliberately designed to kill them.[/quote][/code]

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-08-23 02:23pm

Actually, Mithril mail is considerably more effecive than plate mail in WC. Not only is it less restrictive, but it is also more resistant to weapons. I think that LotR would win, at least until the Third Age. In the Third Age it would be a battle. It would depend on how well the Nazgul were able to make the WC people flee (probably they would repel orc hordes before they even began fighting), but I think that the Third Age forces of Middle Earth would lose.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-08-23 02:38pm

Mithril Armor is also very rare and expensive, few have it. I don't recall any exceptional resistance on the part of the armor worn by most troops in LOTR. I recall arrows punch righting though there mail and armor

And if you people want to go by in game Warcraft dynamics for the effectiveness of there armor and weaponry, then Warcraft wins by a huge margin. Warcraft infantrymen aren’t even slowed by direct hits from cannons and ballista , and can be completely engulfed by fire from dragons and keep fighting.

They also have infinite ammunition, never get tired ect..

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-08-23 03:06pm

Mithril Armor is also very rare and expensive, few have it.

It is expensive. The dwarves are the only ones that have it quantity. The elves have it for their higher ups but it's beyond the means for most grunts.

I don't recall any exceptional resistance on the part of the armor worn by most troops in LOTR. I recall arrows punch righting though there mail and armor

Are you kidding? Elven and Dwarvish armor is nearly impenterable. Look at nearly every description of armored troops in battle.

And if you people want to go by in game Warcraft dynamics for the effectiveness of there armor and weaponry, then Warcraft wins by a huge margin. Warcraft infantrymen aren’t even slowed by direct hits from cannons and ballista , and can be completely engulfed by fire from dragons and keep fighting.

They also have infinite ammunition, never get tired ect..

Trust me you don't want to go that route. If you do all the middle earth forces have to do is step outside of "the box" and Warcraft forces can't attack them. And they can't have an army of more than two hundred people.

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2002-08-23 03:32pm

[

But the second age and third age is just toast, how are they going to win against armies with air support?

The air support from WC isn't that impressive. It's all within a bow shot of the ground and it can be brought down with a few arrows. Add a few eleven archers and they're pincushions in seconds.[/quote]
I was referring to them realitisticly. Of course having grunts that survive ship cannon fire for more than one shot is a big plus, but not realistic. Those air forces are a great advantage then however.

starfury · Post by **starfury** » 2002-08-23 04:30pm

The warcraft forces have their own internal diffuculties. The Alliance fell apart in a matter of years. Heck, members were stabbing each other in the back DURING the war. And simply having a lot species isn't any advantage; most of those have age old feuds with each other that'll boil over given a chance.

this fact is definetly going to be a handicap for the warcraft forces, how many orc clans or human nations were destoryed by other members of their alliance, altarc turned on the alliance in WC2, kel-taris recall was thrown out and Gileanas never joined.

the orcs had it even worse, stormreaver and twilight hammer were crushed after they revolted in the original game, the expansion saw the
shadowmoon clan as I recall destory 2 more clans(thunderlord and bonechewer) before they even begin to fight the alliance.

the part that I am most confused about is the makeup of the aerial forces of the LOTR and warcraft side, the warcraft side dragons don't seem very powerful even without using in-game, but how is does the abilites of the dragons of morgoth go, they are supposed to be giants. espically the one called "Rushing jaws" the greatest of his dragons.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2002-08-23 05:05pm

One of Melkors (admittedly most powerful) dragons burns down a town in one breath in the simarillion, he sits on the bridge outside while the orcs loot the place, talking to someone, then turns his head around and blasts it off the map.
I'll check on it and tell you tomorrow, off for the night now

starfury · Post by **starfury** » 2002-08-23 05:24pm

http://legends.warcraftiii.net/history.shtml

this site has a nice history of the Warcraft univserse with a detail of the myths and legends of the game world, quite good.

Shadow WarChief · Post by **Shadow WarChief** » 2002-08-23 06:51pm

"....But Glaurung (The First Dragon) withheld his blast, and opened wide his seroent eyes and gazed upon Turin. Without fear turin looked into them as he raised his sword and straghtway he fell under the binding spell of the lidless eyes of the drargon, and was halted moveless

orcs then sac the place...

"Then suddenly Glauring withdrew his glance..."

Turin goes runs away

...."The Glaurung turned to his own pleasure, and sent forth his blast, and burned all about him. But all the orcs that were busy in the sack he routed forth, and drove them away, and denied them their plunder even to the last thing of worth. The bridge then he broke down and cast into the foam of the river and being thus secure he gathered all the hoard and riches of Felagund and heaped them, and lay upon them in the innermost hall, and rested a while"

-Of Turin Turumbar.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2002-08-24 08:49am

Yup thats it, the sack of Nargothrond.

I also seem to remember in the hobbit that Smaug seems to think that burning down towns it normal dragon fun...

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-08-28 11:33am

One of Melkors (admittedly most powerful) dragons burns down a town in one breath in the simarillion, he sits on the bridge outside while the orcs loot the place, talking to someone, then turns his head around and blasts it off the map.

Glaurung is really exceptional only in that he was the first dragon and for a long while the only. Smaug, Scatha, and Anaclon were all much more powerful and deadly.

Only the great dragons could really stand up to even the least of the uruloki.

Silver Paladin · Post by **Silver Paladin** » 2002-08-28 04:24pm

All of Warcraft?

You guys are completely leaving out the Burning Legion.

Direct from the manual:

"Saergas seeing that his armies were amassed, and ready to follow his every command, launched his army into the vastness of the Great Dark . He referred to his growing army as The Burning Legion. To this date, it is still unclear as to how many worlds they consumed and burned on their unholy crusade across the universe".

Heck, they've conquered a myriad of planets across the universe, while ME's forces are limited to 1 planet.

In addition, the ranks of TBL teem with uber-being like the Eredar (they have Divine armor, so they ignore normal weapons; their abilities include "Finger of Death"), the Nathrezim AKA Dread Lords, the Doom Guards, Pit Fiends, etc.

Heck their "grunts" are Infernos and Felhounds (who devour magic).

Also, remember that if we're really talking about ALL of Warcraft, we will have to bring in the Titans (creators of the Universe) and the Guardians. Medivh displayed being able to tell the future as well as immortality in addition to his dark summoning abilities.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-08-28 07:38pm

I know all about the Burning Legion. I really don't think that they would make much of a difference against the LotR armies in the First or Second Ages, but they are the trump card against the Third Age.

Silver Paladin · Post by **Silver Paladin** » 2002-08-28 10:26pm

Master of Ossus wrote:I know all about the Burning Legion. I really don't think that they would make much of a difference against the LotR armies in the First or Second Ages, but they are the trump card against the Third Age.

I disagree. There is an ENTIRE planet of Eredars. Each of them would easily be on the level of Sauron (as far as combat powress) considering that they are immune to every "normal" weapon, are immune to magic attacks and have stronger combat spells than Sauron. Sauron never approached the "Finger of Death" style insta-kill that Archimonde did.

And the BL's grunt troop is a Inferno, which is basically a mini-Balrog with Magic Immunity. The BL would easily wipe out the Elves/Dwarves/Men of LotR. It would come down to Maia versus the Eredar + Titans. And the Titans created an entire universe, not just a single planet, so I would have to give them the nod.

The problem is, most of LotR depends heavily on Magic in the upper tier of combat. With the Eredar, Infero immune to magic, the Dread Lords resistant to magic, the Felhounds devouring magic, the Warcraft Universe stands an EXCELLENT chance to force the Maia into melee combat (of course, the Maia aren't immune to magic so they would be affected by the BL's spells). That is the key. LotR depends WAAAAAAAY too heavily on magic, and with that stripped away, I strongly belive Warcraft would beat them.

lgot · Post by **lgot** » 2002-08-29 12:00am

Yet Archimonde plans to burn worlds and became what Sauron and the maias already are.
The WC beings are imune to normal weapons they know off, nothing of that can even prove they are immune to LoTR weapons or magic.
And Valars created a universe, which we know of that world.
The great spells of Archimonde for example cannt compare with the one ring, which could control other beings and ruined spirits of those who used it.
Archimonde was once stoped by the elfs druids and Canarius, a demigod helped it. What make you think the burning legion cannt be stoped by valars as well ?

Silver Paladin · Post by **Silver Paladin** » 2002-08-29 12:09am

He planned to be as powerful as Saergas...not Sauron. Saergas singlehandedly defeated the entire Eredar race; I would say he was rather bad ass himself.

At the same time, I could say that Sauron is only immune to weapons that they know of, not WC weapons. Your assumption is ridiculous.

And the Valar choose to LIVE on that world? You're really reaching. I haven't read anything in LotR to imply that there are multiple planets; much less an entire universe full of galaxies of planets.

The One Ring? How about the Sceptre of Mastery?

Archimonde was never "stopped" by anyone. The ritual to open the portal on Kalimdor was interrupted before it could be completed so he never entered.

And in War3, weapons alone could not harm him; thus the entire planet had to lend it's spirit to help contain him. Saruron was defeated by mere mortal powers; nothing approaching the scale of a planetary assistance.

lgot · Post by **lgot** » 2002-08-29 12:20am

He planned to be as powerful as Saergas...not Sauron. Saergas singlehandedly defeated the entire Eredar race; I would say he was rather bad ass himself.

Of course he never wanted to be like Sauron, right ? There is no Saurou in WC....Geez. something as simple as a comparasion, Sauron is a minor god. That is the intention of Archimonde.

At the same time, I could say that Sauron is only immune to weapons that they know of, not WC weapons. Your assumption is ridiculous.

Ridiculous ? Why is this ridiculous. Ridiculous is you, that cannt see how simpe and true that is.
And yes, You can say Sauron is only immune of what they know of. We do not know if his imunity will stand up against it.

And the Valar choose to LIVE on that world? You're really reaching. I haven't read anything in LotR to imply that there are multiple planets; much less an entire universe full of galaxies of planets.

yes. The Valar choose to live on that world. In the Simarillion they sing and made up things. The Middleearth world was put in a universe they created to them. I did not said there is multiple planets, and why would be galaxies, since the sun there is a "mortal human", not a star ? And the moon is the light of a tree ?

The One Ring? How about the Sceptre of Mastery?

oh, my. Tell me the very wonderful things the scepter of mastery did...

Archimonde was never "stopped" by anyone. The ritual to open the portal on Kalimdor was interrupted before it could be completed so he never entered.

Ok,ok, Archimonde's plans.
So, you imply that Archimonde is limited that he need mortals to open a portal in the world to be there ? So why you ever bother to argue ? Archimonde does not have even power to manifest in the Middle Earth.

And in War3, weapons alone could not harm him; thus the entire planet had to lend it's spirit to help contain him. Saruron was defeated by mere mortal powers; nothing approaching the scale of a planetary assistance.

Oh sweet. Seems like Morgoth, which is the most powerful valar, and abble to create the world and beings was banished just by the other Valars. They did not needed the sacrifice of the spirit of world to do so. Archimonde poor dude then.
Plus, Sauron was never defeated by mere mortal powers. Dont be silly about this.