Well, they're great for destroying units with no air defense capability. Expect them to die in short order over any serious AD resistance though, especially orbiting, dropping JDAMs etc. It's a good thing most nations can't afford S-300s.theski wrote:To Think that they are 50 years old.. They are the real HAMMER OF THE GODS..
NEWSFLASH: TOO BIG FOR BREAKING NEWS THREAD
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Master of Ossus
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I guess it would be okay for me to let you in on what I'm hearing at work. Basically, both sides were right to an extent. What the Defense Department is saying is that the divisions have been "destroyed" in the sense that they are no longer effective as divisions. That means that individual companies, or even battalions, might be capable of fighting, still, on a limited basis, but since a lot of support equipment and stuff is available only at a divisional level this means that they have been SEVERELY mauled by aircraft.Sea Skimmer wrote:Okay.....
Just watching CNN recently, it sounds like the division or divisions are being considered combat ineffective by the US Army, which could either mean a major chunk was destroyed or simply that they scattered or some combination of the two.
The ground engagements with both divisions have been very small, if any actually happened. I haven't actually heard a lot about that. What's left of both divisions appear to be in full retreat/routed. It is unclear whether this is an organized withdrawal to another area in an effort to regroup, or a disorganized retreat for the purposes of escaping. In any case, both divisions have been effectively "destroyed" in the sense that they can no longer defend the areas they were originally sent to guard, by the Iraqi high command. You can take that as being "destroyed," or "forced to retreat," or something else altogether, but that's what I've been hearing from my staff.
I'm sorry I can't be more helpful, but that's all we've got right now. You can imagine that this has been kind of hard to cover, since you get lots of reporters telling you lots of different things. It's like making a jigsaw puzzle with only a couple of the pieces, and then once you've got part of it together you get another story the next day....
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HELL YEAHNathan F wrote:Can we get a big ol' HELL YEAH for that one?Wicked Pilot wrote:I love B-52s.
There's nothing like 144,000lbs of pure kiss your ass goodbye flying over head to ruin your day.
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Sea Skimmer
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Interesting. While direct fire combat does seem pretty limited, a lot of tube and some rocket artillery is being thrown around. It can be heard in Baghdad... Though that's no surprise.Master of Ossus wrote:
I guess it would be okay for me to let you in on what I'm hearing..
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Sea Skimmer
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Even the most basic of S-300 systems cost 600 million per battery, the higher end ones are nearing the billion mark. Mind you, that's only with one or two sets of reloads and no form of bodyguard. So that little fact isn't likely to change. The nation which can throw around that kind of money are highly unlikely to want to fight America anyway.Vympel wrote:Well, they're great for destroying units with no air defense capability. Expect them to die in short order over any serious AD resistance though, especially orbiting, dropping JDAMs etc. It's a good thing most nations can't afford S-300s.theski wrote:To Think that they are 50 years old.. They are the real HAMMER OF THE GODS..
As it stands, Russia doesn't have a marketable integrated air defense system. They have great systems for sale, but no one can buy more then a few pieces. Those few pieces simply get swamped and then it turns into a shooting gallery.
That's why so many armed forces are just buying vast swarms of MANPADS, a cheep investment that can't be blown away in 15 minutes and will keep tactical bombers above 15K, where many are ineffective.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
$600 million per battery?! Russia has 37 SAM regiments. 33 of those are equipped with S-300 (four with S-200) systems- with three fire battalions per regiment. What does the cost work out at?Sea Skimmer wrote:
Even the most basic of S-300 systems cost 600 million per battery, the higher end ones are nearing the billion mark. Mind you, that's only with one or two sets of reloads and no form of bodyguard. So that little fact isn't likely to change. The nation which can throw around that kind of money are highly unlikely to want to fight America anyway.
Sure, they *could* get swamped if you're not smart (it is fully mobile, after all, unlike the previous generation of PVO SAMs), but they'd exact a horrible toll on the enemy. Of course, the only nation capable of swamping a small number of S-300s is the US anyway.As it stands, Russia doesn't have a marketable integrated air defense system. They have great systems for sale, but no one can buy more then a few pieces. Those few pieces simply get swamped and then it turns into a shooting gallery.
But not those annoying B-52s. The mere presence of an S-300 system on the ground will mean they won't dare fly B-52s anywhere near there. And it'd hardly be blown away in 15 minutes- HARM pretty much sucks for homing in on a dead signal now, and S-300 outranges any aircraft with HARM to a ridiculous degree.That's why so many armed forces are just buying vast swarms of MANPADS, a cheep investment that can't be blown away in 15 minutes and will keep tactical bombers above 15K, where many are ineffective.
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Nathan F
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The design would be well over 90.Col. Crackpot wrote:2040?!?! that would make some of them almost 80 years old! holy crap!phongn wrote:The current estimate is that the last of the BUFFs will be retired around 2040 (unless a new, relatively inexpensive bomb truck gets delivered)Stravo wrote:Can anyone see a time in the near future when they would have to be retired? That would be a damned shame, but think of that, this design has been SUCCESSFUL for half a century, how many military weapons have that kind of track record? (excluding warships since they are supposed to have long service records)
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