Abbott joins DeSantis in human trafficking

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Abbott joins DeSantis in human trafficking

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The Guardian
Greg Abbott decision to bus migrants to LA condemned as ‘despicable stunt’

Los Angeles mayor says Texas governor ‘using human beings as pawns’ amid reports migrants were not given food or drink on bus

Governor Greg Abbott of Texas’s decision to bus migrants to Los Angeles this week has been decried as a “despicable stunt”, as advocates in California reported that the group was not offered food during the 23-hour trip.

On Wednesday, 42 migrants, including 15 youth and three babies, arrived at Union Station in downtown LA, said Jorge-Mario Cabrera, the communications director for the Coalition for Humane Immigrant Rights-Los Angeles (Chirla), who met the group when they arrived. The travelers he spoke to came from Venezuela, Honduras, Guatemala and Haiti, and one came from China, he said, adding some told him they had been on the bus for nearly a day without any food or drink.

The Roman Catholic Diocese of Sacramento, where 16 migrants from Venezuela and Colombia were brought last Friday from Texas.

Abbott tweeted that it was the “1st bus of migrants” arriving in LA, claiming Texas border towns “remain overrun & overwhelmed because Biden refuses to secure the border”. Recent reports, however, have found that the number of migrants crossing the US-Mexico border is at its lowest levels since the start of Joe Biden’s presidency. Abbott has faced increasing scrutiny for his bussing program over the last year, which has reportedly sent tens of thousands of migrants to Democratic-run cities, including New York, Chicago, Philadelphia and Washington.

Immigrants’ rights groups have said the practice can be exploitative and cruel, noting last year that one bus Abbott sent to Philadelphia had a 10-year-old girl on it who had to be hospitalized from dehydration and a high fever. Last month, the governor sent buses to vice-president Kamala Harris’s residence in Washington.

LA councilmember Eunisses Hernandez said on Thursday several city agencies and nonprofits triaged the situation, offering health screenings, mental health care, connections to legal aid, assistance with family reunification and homeless services if needed.

“Our community organizations do this every single day, the only difference here is these migrants were used as a political stunt, transported to our city for political means,” she said. “This action by the governor of Texas is a reflection of how incapable he is of running a state, of meeting a crisis head-on. It’s just really pathetic. But Los Angeles is a place where we value and welcome everyone.”

LA mayor Karen Bass said in a statement that after she took office last year, she directed city agencies to plan for possible scenarios in which LA “was on the receiving end of a despicable stunt that Republican governors have grown so fond of”.

“This did not catch us off guard, nor will it intimidate us. Now, it’s time to execute our plan. Our emergency management, police, fire and other departments were able to find out about the incoming arrival while the bus was on its way and were already mobilized along with non-profit partners before the bus arrived,” she said.
There's more at the link.

Last time I checked, transporting unwilling people across state lines is kidnapping, whether you use force to get them in the vehicle or fraud. Since we'll all die of old age waiting for the Justice Department to press kidnapping or human trafficking charges, there's a simple and effective solution:

Governors and mayors who get migrants dumped on their doorsteps should arrest the drivers of these shipments on human trafficking charges and impound the buses. Rinse and repeat as necessary. No bus charter company wants to lose its vehicles -even temporarily as they try to get them back in court. No drivers want to get cuffed, either. This goes for flights, too. No air charter service wants their planes seized and pilots cuffed. Of course the drivers/pilots and flight coordinators can get out of trouble by testifying as to who hired them. Put out warrants for them, too.

Crying about the sadistic racism of Abbott and DeSantis only encourages more of it. Other MAGA pols will get into the act, too. Lock 'em up!
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Re: Abbott joins DeSantis in human trafficking

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Is there a reason we're not seeing the authorities act against this?
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Re: Abbott joins DeSantis in human trafficking

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Spinelessness. The only pols who have called this state-sponsored kidnapping what it is are the governor and attorney general in California. The ones in DC, NY and Massachusetts just whined. You can bet the ranch that there's going to be a lot more next year with the election.
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Re: Abbott joins DeSantis in human trafficking

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If the Feds know which bus companies are in on it, they can charge under federal statute because it crosses state lines. Why has that not happened yet?
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Re: Abbott joins DeSantis in human trafficking

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Gandalf wrote: 2023-06-15 09:36pmIs there a reason we're not seeing the authorities act against this?
Maybe they figure it's better to have undocumented immigrants dumped over the state line than dumped in mass graves. Because I honestly would not be surprised if that's exactly what Abbot or DeSantis order done next.
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Re: Abbott joins DeSantis in human trafficking

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Arresting the drivers/pilots is more like shooting the messenger than actually going after the real source of the problem. Those guys are doing the job they're hired to do and if they don't have a common language with the people they're transporting they might be unaware of what exactly is going on. I'm not totally discounting it, but the people behind this shit would be entirely happy to let someone else take the fall for it.

Nor is it enough to arrest DeSantis, Abbott, and Ducey (Arizona) - they need to be convicted.

Prosecutors in Texas, Florida, and Arizona are not going to bring charges, of course. Prosecutors in the affected cities/states don't have jurisdiction. It will require Federal charges. Are the Feds ignoring this? Or are they quietly putting plans in place? While there are reasons to doubt the latter consider that Trump is only now being indited on Federal charges, it might be a case of wheels turning slowly.

But I'd really like to see the governors of those three states pay for this.
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Re: Abbott joins DeSantis in human trafficking

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Abbott is literally trying to pardon a MAGA terrorist who murdered someone.

A colossal piece of shit.
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Re: Abbott joins DeSantis in human trafficking

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Formless wrote: 2023-06-16 12:36am If the Feds know which bus companies are in on it, they can charge under federal statute because it crosses state lines. Why has that not happened yet?
Good question. My guess is that Biden and Garland still think MAGA can be bargained and reasoned with (aside from Trump) and they'll stop if they're asked politely.
Broomstick wrote: 2023-06-16 04:19am Arresting the drivers/pilots is more like shooting the messenger than actually going after the real source of the problem. Those guys are doing the job they're hired to do and if they don't have a common language with the people they're transporting they might be unaware of what exactly is going on. I'm not totally discounting it, but the people behind this shit would be entirely happy to let someone else take the fall for it.

Nor is it enough to arrest DeSantis, Abbott, and Ducey (Arizona) - they need to be convicted.
The idea is not to put drivers or pilots in jail, it's to get them to swear to the identities of who hired them. Deterring others would just be a bonus.
Prosecutors in Texas, Florida, and Arizona are not going to bring charges, of course. Prosecutors in the affected cities/states don't have jurisdiction. It will require Federal charges. Are the Feds ignoring this? Or are they quietly putting plans in place? While there are reasons to doubt the latter consider that Trump is only now being indited on Federal charges, it might be a case of wheels turning slowly.

But I'd really like to see the governors of those three states pay for this.
The Bexar County Sheriff has asked the local DA to bring charges. The California AG has demanded records from Florida about the shipments and is opening an investigation into Greg Abbott's role in trafficking, too. But you're right: it won't matter unless or until someone gets arrested and convicted.
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Re: Abbott joins DeSantis in human trafficking

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bobalot wrote: 2023-06-16 07:15am Abbott is literally trying to pardon a MAGA terrorist who murdered someone.

A colossal piece of shit.
Just think: If Greg Abbott had been the governor of Oklahoma back in 1995, Timothy McVeigh would have walked.
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Re: Abbott joins DeSantis in human trafficking

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Elfdart wrote: 2023-06-16 02:13pm
bobalot wrote: 2023-06-16 07:15am Abbott is literally trying to pardon a MAGA terrorist who murdered someone.

A colossal piece of shit.
Just think: If Greg Abbott had been the governor of Oklahoma back in 1995, Timothy McVeigh would have walked.
Don't be stupid.
McVeigh blew up a FEDERAL BUILDING, and MURDERED KIDS. Abbott wouldn't have stepped in front of that bus for any amount of money or fame, because even the conservatives were shocked and horrified at the death and destruction.

So, again... don't be stupid, this is a false equivalency.
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Re: Abbott joins DeSantis in human trafficking

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I was referring to Abbott trying to get a pardon for a racist thug who committed cold-blooded murder during the BLM protests after bragging about how much he'd like to kill demonstrators and deliberately ramming his car into the crowd.

Do try to keep up.
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Re: Abbott joins DeSantis in human trafficking

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Elfdart wrote: 2023-06-16 08:25pm I was referring to Abbott trying to get a pardon for a racist thug who committed cold-blooded murder during the BLM protests after bragging about how much he'd like to kill demonstrators and deliberately ramming his car into the crowd.

Do try to keep up.
Oh yes, do try to keep up and keep trying to say a man who rammed a car into a crowd of people is equivalent to a man who BLEW THE FRONT OFF AN ENTIRE BUILDING.

Now, yes, Abbott's a dirtbag who's trying to pander to the AltRight by trying to pardon a murderous racist asshole. I'm not arguing that.
I'm arguing he'd not have done so for McVeigh, as you claimed.



Now, to get back on track with the OP --

I fully believe that right now both California and Texas are in the "get enough evidence to make this stick" phase, and as we've endured with the whole Trump fiasco, we know that can take a while. The mere fact that they ARE digging for evidence and moving on possible criminal actions is encouraging, as I thought DeSantis was going to slide away from his little stunt without even a smear of mud. This kidnapping of migrants for a political stunt is far more dangerous and damning than his little fight with Disney, and it's annoying how it's been swept under the rug. Abbott playing copy-cat is even worse, and shows how far the GOP Alt-Right will go to woo voters.

I can only hope that they're put up on charges, but at this point I think their base will still love them for it, just like the Trumpers.
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Re: Abbott joins DeSantis in human trafficking

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So what I want to know is who actually rounded them up and put them on the buses. Was it police or other law enforcement? Because the chances police being prosecuted for forcibly seizing someone and transporting them somewhere against their will seem like basically zero. And if they aren't going to be prosecuted doesn't seem likely the people above them will be either.

Is there any precedent for trying to extradite a governor?
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Re: Abbott joins DeSantis in human trafficking

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They were not forcibly rounded up. They were lured onto these buses and planes with false promises of accommodation, food, shelter, and jobs. No doubt the perpetrators of these acts thought that would insult them - "we didn't FORCE anyone to take this trip! They were willing!". Except that lying to people in order to get them onto buses and planes to take them to other destinations and then just abandoning them there is also a form of trafficking.
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Re: Abbott joins DeSantis in human trafficking

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Broomstick wrote: 2023-06-17 05:01pm They were not forcibly rounded up. They were lured onto these buses and planes with false promises of accommodation, food, shelter, and jobs. No doubt the perpetrators of these acts thought that would insult them - "we didn't FORCE anyone to take this trip! They were willing!". Except that lying to people in order to get them onto buses and planes to take them to other destinations and then just abandoning them there is also a form of trafficking.
There's survivor stories from Africa, from the Americas, from Western Europe, where people were promised Good Jobs, Safe Shelters, Money, Food, etc... and they were then left stranded in places where they did not know the language and had no way to get home, while those that made the Promises were long gone and never found again.

Sounds EXACTLY like what DeSantis and Abbott did to these people.
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Re: Abbott joins DeSantis in human trafficking

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Broomstick wrote: 2023-06-17 05:01pmNo doubt the perpetrators of these acts thought that would insult them - "we didn't FORCE anyone to take this trip! They were willing!". Except that lying to people in order to get them onto buses and planes to take them to other destinations and then just abandoning them there is also a form of trafficking.
LadyTevar wrote: 2023-06-17 05:42pmThere's survivor stories from Africa, from the Americas, from Western Europe, where people were promised Good Jobs, Safe Shelters, Money, Food, etc... and they were then left stranded in places where they did not know the language and had no way to get home, while those that made the Promises were long gone and never found again.

Sounds EXACTLY like what DeSantis and Abbott did to these people.
Now I'm no big city lawyer, but seems to me that the obvious counter here would be that those weren't technically lies because the people in question are currently receiving aid and shelter. Especially given that the mayor of Los Angeles is quoted saying that city agencies were prepared to receive and care for them.
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Re: Abbott joins DeSantis in human trafficking

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The people making the promise to lure people did not, in fact, have any of the offered items waiting for those people. The fact that on the other end there are decent people willing to help in no way mitigates the fraudulent nature of the lure. These people were abandoned - literally dropped off onto a street. Often near potential shelter, yes, but still abandoned.

The intention is to cause disruption and distress at the destination cities. The migrants are being used as pawns. Especially telling is that they are typically NOT provided with food, water, or other care during these trips which, given the distances involved, are lengthy. For example, a bus trip from the Mexican border in Texas to Chicago is 21 hours of driving time. Assuming the occasional stop for refueling and the driver to piss once in awhile, and violating national safety standards by having the driver do the whole trip without stopping, that's basically an entire day. An entire day in which the migrants receive no food and no water. But more realistically it's a multi-day trip during which the migrants are on the bus the entire time, again, without food or water. Some have arrived at destinations in need of medical care which had been denied to them both at the border facilities and along the entire trip. Even if you accept the argument that there is help at the other end of the trip these people are NOT being treated humanely along the way.

The plane trips are shorter in duration and perhaps not so onerous to the migrants, but that still does not make it right.

Quote from former Chicago mayor Lori Lightfoot:
Lori Lightfoot wrote:“What I don’t like to see is people taking these cross-country trips, getting off the bus and being immediately taken to the hospital because they were put on the buses with delicate medical conditions that no one in Texas seemed to care anything about,” Lightfoot said on CNN. “That is simply not right, and it’s un-American.”
Yeah. Transporting people in conditions that are such they need to be taken to a freakin' hospital on arrival is not OK. I'll just further point out that the Texas/Mexican border is desert country and heat induced illnesses and dehydration are common in migrants entering the US by that point, and a few dozen each year are badly enough affected to die every year. So... take ill, dehydrated people, lure them onto a bus, drive them for two days without food or water to a city thousands of kilometers away... yeah, that's fucking disgusting.
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Re: Abbott joins DeSantis in human trafficking

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I'm not saying I consider this good or okay, but it seems like an obvious defense. Especially given that 1) we're talking about someone as important and powerful as a state governor and 2) kinda hard to say the migrants aren't better off not being under his authority.
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Re: Abbott joins DeSantis in human trafficking

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Ralin wrote: 2023-06-18 07:25am I'm not saying I consider this good or okay, but it seems like an obvious defense. Especially given that 1) we're talking about someone as important and powerful as a state governor and 2) kinda hard to say the migrants aren't better off not being under his authority.
Yes, we're talking about a Powerful State Governor, which is why they are trying to build an air-tight case before going any further.
Yes, they're better off anywhere but under the power of that Governor.

BUT IT'S NOT A DEFENSE IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM.
They are deliberately causing HARM -- to the migrants, who are not given food, medical attention, or water before or during transport, and who are being lied too about why they're being transported.
HARM to the cities where they're being taken and ABANDONED -- no warnings the migrants were coming, no follow-up after to offer aid, just dump and run and Abbott and DeSantis pat themselves on the back for "Owning the Libs".

Last time I looked, "Deliberate Intent to Harm or Cause Harm" was a Legal Charge in the Judicial Code that can put you in jail.
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Re: Abbott joins DeSantis in human trafficking

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The problem is not in the notion of transporting these migrants to another city - hell, some of these people have walked from Argentina to the United States, I really doubt a two-day bus ride - emphasis on ride - would be something they'd resist.

That's part of the problem - they are very open to further travel in hopes of something better. It's makes them easy to lure.

The problem is the fraud, coercion, and neglect that also occurs with the schemes of DeSantis and Abbott. We have legal terms for this, like "reckless endangerment" and "manslaughter" for when the trip turns fatal.
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Re: Abbott joins DeSantis in human trafficking

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Ralin wrote: 2023-06-18 07:25am I'm not saying I consider this good or okay, but it seems like an obvious defense. Especially given that 1) we're talking about someone as important and powerful as a state governor and 2) kinda hard to say the migrants aren't better off not being under his authority.
I live in Texas. Abbott is putting out notices for homeowners to set their thermostats to 85F (which means he knows our grid going to go tits-up and soon -like when over 700 people died from the cold two years ago) AND signed the Death Star bill which among other things, removes mandatory water breaks for those who work outside where the THI is close to 120*. The state government here is diabolical. No doubt people are better off in California.


* Texas leads the nation in heat-related deaths on the job.
Ralin wrote: 2023-06-18 04:30am
Broomstick wrote: 2023-06-17 05:01pmNo doubt the perpetrators of these acts thought that would insult them - "we didn't FORCE anyone to take this trip! They were willing!". Except that lying to people in order to get them onto buses and planes to take them to other destinations and then just abandoning them there is also a form of trafficking.
LadyTevar wrote: 2023-06-17 05:42pmThere's survivor stories from Africa, from the Americas, from Western Europe, where people were promised Good Jobs, Safe Shelters, Money, Food, etc... and they were then left stranded in places where they did not know the language and had no way to get home, while those that made the Promises were long gone and never found again.

Sounds EXACTLY like what DeSantis and Abbott did to these people.
Now I'm no big city lawyer, but seems to me that the obvious counter here would be that those weren't technically lies because the people in question are currently receiving aid and shelter. Especially given that the mayor of Los Angeles is quoted saying that city agencies were prepared to receive and care for them.
Elie Mystal, who really is a lawyer, thinks human trafficking charges might not stick, but makes the case for kidnapping charges here:

The Nation.
I do not know why treating brown people like unwanted garbage so titillates the Republican MAGA base. I do not know how white media pundits at major publications and outlets can refer to this situation as a “policy debate.” I do not know what the specific defect is in the MAGA Republican psyche that allows them to order, authorize, or support forced or coerced relocation as one option among many. All I know for sure is that treating children as sub-creatures who can be bused cross-country for the sole purpose of trolling the opposition party is what makes Abbott and DeSantis the actual sub-creatures. This… stunt… is monstrous, and anybody who supports or both-sides it is either a monster themselves or far too comfortable with monstrosity for my taste.

I can make a good argument that the GOP has reached some new moral nadir with these antics—and I’d like to be able to argue that what it’s doing is illegal, but that is a little shakier. Unfortunately, not every sick and twisted thing Republicans come up with is illegal, and in this case it’s not even like Abbott or DeSantis invented this evil themselves. Forced or coerced relocations have a long history in the United States, and the white people who make the rules always have made those relocations “legal” at the time. The forced relocation of the Cherokee was “legal.” The internment of Japanese Americans was “legal.” Even “Greyhound therapy,” in which cities (often Democratic) give homeless men and women one-way tickets out of town on Greyhound buses was, and still is, technically legal.

Abbott and DeSantis are engaged in a kind of human trafficking, but not the kind that is illegal. Our human trafficking laws, at both the state and federal level, only criminalize relocating people and children for the purposes of sex or some other labor. Sending people across state lines to have a laugh with your good ol’ boys at the next KKK or NRCC rally is not illegal under our relevant human trafficking statutes; it’s just deeply fucked up.

But there are other laws. The Immigration and Nationality Act makes it illegal to knowingly harbor undocumented workers, and then transport them. This law is generally aimed at human smugglers, but it could be used against the Republican governors or their agents.

Where the governors might be more exposed is with federal kidnapping laws. It is a crime to kidnap somebody and transport them across state lines, and that crime includes tricking people (the legal term is “inveigle”) to go “voluntarily.” NPR reports that at least some of the people who ended up on Martha’s Vineyard were told that they would be going to Boston, and that in Boston they would be able to get expedited work papers; Rolling Stone reports that they were also promised housing.

Being told that you’re going to Boston to receive work visas but being sent to Martha’s Vineyard to be an unwilling participant in a political stunt could be enough of a violation to charge the planner with kidnapping. Boston is a major city where one might reasonably expect services, shelter, and work. Martha’s Vineyard, well… that might as well be in New Jersey.

At the very least, the Department of Justice should try to make such a case. My father was lucky; the coach who signed him greeted him at the airport, and Denver turned out to be not a bad place to live. He was treated decently, as were the Venezuleans who ended up on Martha’s Vineyard. But the goals of Abbott and DeSantis are not to find places that will treat new residents decently; their goals are to find places that will snap under the weight of unexpected guests. If Martha’s Vineyard shows that it can handle a sudden influx of new people—as Boston can, as D.C. can, as New York can (despite the pathetic and swaggerless mewling of Mayor Eric Adams)—the Republicans will just find somewhere else to send people.

Republicans like Abbottt and DeSantis never stop trying to hurt people. They have to be made to stop. The DOJ must try, and if that doesn’t work, then Congress must expand the human trafficking laws to prohibit shipping people across state lines for political gain.
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