Lake NATO Acheived!

[Highlord Laan]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/10/politics ... index.html Spoiler

NATO chief Jens Stoltenberg said on Monday that Turkey has agreed to back Sweden’s bid to join the military alliance – a major development on the eve of the NATO summit.

The announcement epresents a stunning about-face from Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, who had earlier on Monday suggested Sweden could only join the alliance after his country is accepted into the European Union. Erdoğan has stood in the path of Sweden joining NATO for more than a year over a multitude of concerns.

Speaking at a news conference in Vilnius, Lithuania, following a meeting with Erdoğan and Swedish Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson, Stoltenberg said that the Turkish president “has agreed to forward the accession protocol for Sweden to the Grand National Assembly as soon as possible, and work closely with the Assembly to ensure ratification.”

Erdoğan dropping his opposition marks a major step forward, but does not mean that Sweden will immediately become the next member of the alliance. Stoltenberg did not offer a specific timeline for when Erdoğan would move the document forward to the Turkish Parliament, which must then vote to approve it. Hungary also has not voted to approve Sweden’s membership, though Stoltenberg said Monday that Hungary had made clear that it would not be the last to ratify Sweden’s bid.

Asked by a reporter when Sweden can be expected to officially become a NATO member, Stoltenberg was unwilling to commit to an answer, saying that it was up to Turkey to make an announcement and preferred to focus on the merits of a “historic day”.

“I think that we have to respect that every parliament has their own integrity, their own timelines, so I welcome that the president has made this clear that he will work with the parliament to ensure ratification, but exactly when has to be announced by the Turkish parliament,” Stoltenberg said, adding that the move was the result of a year of negotiations.

The movement on NATO’s accession comes after months of opposition and demands from Ankara. Turkey claimed that Sweden allows members of recognized Kurdish terror groups to operate, most notably the militant Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK). Turkey had also accused Swedish officials of complicity in Islamophobic demonstrations, such as the burning of the Quran.

At his news conference Monday, Stoltenberg noted that Sweden and Turkey had “worked closely together to address Turkey’s legitimate security concerns.”

“As part of that process, Sweden has amended its constitution, changed its laws, significantly expanded its counter-terrorism cooperation against the PKK, and resumed arms exports to Turkey,” he said.

NATO said in a statement that there were additional commitments made at the meeting between Stoltenberg, Erdogan and Kristersson.

The two countries agreed to continue cooperation on counter-terrorism efforts, and NATO will establish a new Special Coordinator for Counter-Terrorism role, the statement said. Sweden and Turkey “also agreed to step up economic cooperation.”

In addition, Sweden “will actively support efforts to reinvigorate Türkiye’s EU accession process,” the statement said.

US President Joe Biden, who is scheduled to meet with Erdoğan on Tuesday evening, welcomed the Turkish president’s commitment “to transmit the Accession Protocol for Sweden to Türkiye’s Grand National Assembly for swift ratification.”

“I stand ready to work with President Erdoğan and Türkiye on enhancing defense and deterrence in the Euro-Atlantic area,” Biden said in a statement Monday.

Top US officials had stepped up pressure on their counterparts in Ankara in the days leading up to the NATO summit. Biden spoke with Erdoğan while he was flying aboard Air Force One Sunday. US national security adviser Jake Sullivan spoke with officials in Turkey and Sweden, respectively, on Monday in preparation for the summit. US Secretary of State Antony Blinken spoke with Turkish Foreign Minister Hakan Fidan three times in a matter of five days, including on Monday morning.

The news represents a major win for Biden, who had consistently expressed confidence that Sweden would join the alliance at the Vilnius summit, despite Turkish opposition. The president told CNN’s Fareed Zakaria in an exclusive interview ahead of the summit that he was optimistic that Sweden would eventually be admitted to NATO, noting Turkey is seeking to modernize its F-16 fleet, along with Greece, which has voted to admit Sweden.

“Turkey is looking for modernization of F-16 aircraft. And (Greek Prime Minister Kyriakos) Mitsotakis in Greece is also looking for some help,” Biden said. “And so, what I’m trying to, quite frankly, put together is a little bit of a consortium here, where we’re strengthening NATO in terms of military capacity of both Greece as well as Turkey, and allow Sweden to come in. But it’s in play. It’s not done.”

This story has been updated with additional reporting.

[LadyTevar]

That little Russian Oblast Outpost is looking a bit worried.

[Highlord Laan]

That little Russian Oblast Outpost is looking a bit worried.

You mean Królewiec?

[Lord Revan]

What's even more ironic is that this is 100% Russia's fault, Putin's lust for power turned 2 countries that had been firmly against joining any military alliances into NATO members with overwhelming popular support for that in those countries.

Prior to the invasion of Ukraine by Russia the popular support for NATO membership was practically non-existent in Finland and Sweden, that turned practically overnight when the invasion happened.

[Highlord Laan]

What's even more ironic is that this is 100% Russia's fault, Putin's lust for power turned 2 countries that had been firmly against joining any military alliances into NATO members with overwhelming popular support for that in those countries.

Prior to the invasion of Ukraine by Russia the popular support for NATO membership was practically non-existent in Finland and Sweden, that turned practically overnight when the invasion happened.

It's also made many NATO members willing to go to the brink with the Z's. There's a push to offer Ukraine NATO membership, even with the horde still in their borders. The idea being if Ukraine joins NATO, poot-poot gets dick slapped harder than he already has, and gets an ultimatum. GTFO, or Article Five goes Mongolian on the rus.

Poland is entirely onboard either way.

[Zwinmar]

Well, a lot of those Baltic countries are real tired of hearing a bunch of Chamberlains kiss Putin's rear while he holds a loaded gun to their heads.

[Lord Revan]

What this also means is St. Petersburg is more or less irrelevant as a military port as is Kalingrad as what you use there you must build there as getting thru the Danish straights is even less of an option now as Sweden is far less likely to protest about it. Also if Russia pisses of NATO badly enough it might mean St. Petersburg is made irrelevant as port period as Denmark will forbid any vessel heading to Russia or under Russian flag from travelling the Danish Straights (thus cutting the sea lane to St. Petersburg).

[LadyTevar]

That little Russian Oblast Outpost is looking a bit worried.

You mean Królewiec?

The Russian port/base on Poland's border, yes. I can't spell it

Now.. looking at this, and looking at the situation right now, Ukraine will NOT be admitted into NATO until RUSSIA has been defeated.

Why? Because if Russia is still invading Ukraine when it's admitted, all those "mutual aid" clauses kick in and suddenly NATO is at war with Russia.

[Captain Seafort]

What this also means is St. Petersburg is more or less irrelevant as a military port as is Kalingrad as what you use there you must build there as getting thru the Danish straights is even less of an option now as Sweden is far less likely to protest about it. Also if Russia pisses of NATO badly enough it might mean St. Petersburg is made irrelevant as port period as Denmark will forbid any vessel heading to Russia or under Russian flag from travelling the Danish Straights (thus cutting the sea lane to St. Petersburg).

Never mind the Belts - imagine the old Tsarist mine-artillery position flipped around.

[Highlord Laan]

That little Russian Oblast Outpost is looking a bit worried.

You mean Królewiec?

The Russian port/base on Poland's border, yes. I can't spell it

Now.. looking at this, and looking at the situation right now, Ukraine will NOT be admitted into NATO until RUSSIA has been defeated.

Why? Because if Russia is still invading Ukraine when it's admitted, all those "mutual aid" clauses kick in and suddenly NATO is at war with Russia.

I was playing with words. The port is called Kaliningrad now, but it was called Królewiec when it was Polish territory.

[Gandalf]

I'm not sure why people are suddenly jumping on the whole Królewiec thing. Interestingly, it was Königsberg far more recently and for longer.

Now.. looking at this, and looking at the situation right now, Ukraine will NOT be admitted into NATO until RUSSIA has been defeated.

Why? Because if Russia is still invading Ukraine when it's admitted, all those "mutual aid" clauses kick in and suddenly NATO is at war with Russia.

Yeah, right now this is a decent moment for western elites. Weapons deals make money, a new boogeyman in Putin makes hardline foreign policy an easier sell, and all of this without any loss of their own citizen's lives. No point ruining that by escalating this into an Article 5 issue.

[LadyTevar]

I'm not sure why people are suddenly jumping on the whole Królewiec thing. Interestingly, it was Königsberg far more recently and for longer.

Now.. looking at this, and looking at the situation right now, Ukraine will NOT be admitted into NATO until RUSSIA has been defeated.

Why? Because if Russia is still invading Ukraine when it's admitted, all those "mutual aid" clauses kick in and suddenly NATO is at war with Russia.

Yeah, right now this is a decent moment for western elites. Weapons deals make money, a new boogeyman in Putin makes hardline foreign policy an easier sell, and all of this without any loss of their own citizen's lives. No point ruining that by escalating this into an Article 5 issue.

I think the Krolewiec thing is Poland hinting they want to take it back.

And no, we do not was escalation, either to Article 5, or to Nukes.

[Lord Revan]

I think only people wanting escalation are the people who had been drooling for WW3 to start the moment this current invasion started, as I mentioned prior this pretty much eliminates 1 major port for Russia as military base (Unlike Turkey neither Estonia or Finland are that friendly or willing to compromise with Putin).

[Highlord Laan]

I mean, I'm all for pissing on the ruz. Doing so on pootie's grave would be even better.

With all the huffing and puffing the little shit is doing about his nukes, I'd be more than happy to roll the dice on his bullshit. From what I'm hearing from friends across the pond, some of which are Military themselves, a large chunk of Europe is just about done with the little-dick motherfucker's posturing anyway.

Besides, all it'll take is one tragically mis-aimed S-400 and Poland won't even ask to go balls deep. They're practically shaking in place at the chance to murderfuck russia to the Urals, Finland has made eye contact across Karelia and winked, a lot of the Baltics aren't far behind, and Erdie would in no way object to cheap real estate.

If he keeps pushing, little pootie's next message from all of Eastern Europe, excepting his bitch boy in Hungary, may well be "assume the position."

They don't need the US' blessing to see to their own security, after all. It's just nice to have our backup.

And don't pretend like we wouldn't give it in a heartbeat.

[LadyTevar]

Do I want to see Putin's Russia stopped dead in their tracks? Yes.

DO I want to see the EU/NATO in a war to do it? No.
Especially since my favorite nephew just went into USAF Bootcamp. He might be going for AirTraffic Controller, but that's still not a safe job if it's military.

[Lord Revan]

The thing about European war and why it's not really a good thing is that it's on our turf, any damages what will happen from a non-nuclear conflict will on us, do we want Putin stopped damn right we do, do most of want to see Helsinki in ruins at same time, not if we can avoid it (it's kind of my home so I prefer to leave it not ruined if possible, yes technically I don't live in Helsinki proper but I live close enough).


It's easy to masturbate over WWIII starting when you're thousands of kilometers from the potential flashpoint, to the point that unless the war goes nuclear you 100% safe, well I won't be so that's why I advocate caution over mindless escalation. Stop putin sure but not by dedicating yourself to Khorne.

[Broomstick]

Too many people in my country lust over this conflict for a variety of reasons, or want to downplay it, or even cheerlead Putin, but they don't realize that even if bullets and bombs aren't reaching North America it DOES affect everyone, everywhere. Yep, you idiots can just keep bitching about rising food prices but no matter what you don't believe (or don't want to believe), this war fucking up Ukrainian agriculture has knock-on effects that impact your dinner table, and at that, we're not nearly as inconvenienced as some other nations.

If the knock-on effects are hitting the US then they're hitting a lot of other people a whole hell of a lot worse.

[Gandalf]

Yeah, it's not helped by the US media I see treating it like a sport event. Do Americans need something between the NBA finals and the MLB playoffs to tide them over right now?

Also, people are adopting anti-Russian racism like they've got Joe McCarthy in their ears. It's absurd and horrible.

[Lord Revan]

I suspect due to the rather selfish and conflict oriented bent of the current US culture, a lot of people have problems seeing things from the point of view of other people. For example annexing Karelia from what I've gathered from the news and polls and what not the actual popular opinion about retaking those areas lost in 1940s is more from "Don't care" to "hell no" with only a minority even considering it and even smaller minority actively desiring it and it's a minority of minority of minority who still want a "greater Finland", mostly racists or warmongers who aren't that popular or numerous.

[Zwinmar]

At this point, Russia and Putin are only going to quit their aggressive actions by being kicked in the teeth. People are anti Russia because they keep attacking others, and just like the religious right, they try to claim they are the ones being persecuted when they are the very ones creating the situation. In short, we have a bunch of Neville Chamberlains trying to appease Russia and it is never going to work.

[Lord Revan]

It is not appeasement to assume Russia's goals aren't to do evil for the sake of evil and that it's enough to make Putin and this cronies look weak by forcing them out of Ukraine and mindlessly escalating things with the goal of creating World War 3 so millions if not billions people will die isn't the answer we seek to stop Putin.

Putin isn't some demigod with total and absolute control that cannot be broken, like the Czar in 1905 and 1917 he has staked in personal prestige into winning a war (the Ukrainian conflict in the case of Putin) and who ever follows him will have to rebuild and they know they can't do that with the West still hostile to them (especially if the rumors of Putin targeting Chinese assets in Ukraine is true, since they probably won't get help from China either after that) so being a mindless hardliner would be against the goals of the Russian elite, Stalin wasn't followed by someone even more worse even though west at the time feared that would be the case.

You don't have to physically harm Putin to stop nor do you really have to take over Russian Territory with the intention of holding long term, nor is there any need for a second front in this conflict currently, don't mistake your bloodlust for rationality they are too very different things.

[Ralin]

You don't have to physically harm Putin to stop

And isn't Putin only moderately right-wing by Russian politics standards? With a big part of what political opposition exists to him coming from the right and revolving around him not being more of a hardliner?

don't mistake your bloodlust for rationality they are too very different things.

I don't know if you've noticed, but almost everything Highlord Laan has posted this year has been some sort of internet tough guy bullshit aimed at right-wingers.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

You don't have to physically harm Putin to stop

And isn't Putin only moderately right-wing by Russian politics standards? With a big part of what political opposition exists to him coming from the right and revolving around him not being more of a hardliner?

don't mistake your bloodlust for rationality they are too very different things.

I don't know if you've noticed, but almost everything Highlord Laan has posted this year has been some sort of internet tough guy bullshit aimed at right-wingers.

I thought I was the only one who noticed he wanted someone to dare Putin to push his luck too far

[Ralin]

I thought I was the only one who noticed he wanted someone to dare Putin to push his luck too far

Shit did I break some sort of rule by saying that out loud?

[Lord Revan]

Probably not as I've been saying the same just in other words