UKRAINE WAR - 1 YEAR AND GOING.

[bilateralrope]

Any guesses as to how long before the bridge becomes permanently unuseable ?

Because that seems the only likely outcome at this point.

[Lord Revan]

Any guesses as to how long before the bridge becomes permanently unuseable ?

Because that seems the only likely outcome at this point.

Too many variables to make anything resembling an educated guess. It could be very soon if Russia keep wanting to reject reality in favor of their own narrative or it could take very long if Russia relaxes their grip on the idiot ball they've had death grip on recently.

[LadyTevar]

Russians suddenly block traffic on Crimean Bridge

ALONA MAZURENKO — FRIDAY, 28 JULY 2023, 23:47

[*]Russian media have previously asserted that the Crimean Bridge is guarded from the sky by fighter jets and underwater by divers and "combat dolphins".

"COMBAT DOLPHINS"
Wow. Just... Wow...

Yes, I know theres been rumors that Russia's been training dolphins for underwater military/spy stuff. So has the US, supposedly. But, did it actually ever come to the point where it actually WORKED?

And what could the dolphins do, anyway? Swim up to the drone and nudge it off course is about all I could think of. At least a dolphin could keep up, I dont' see a diver being able to catch a torpedo or drone doing even 5knots.

[bilateralrope]

Yes, I know theres been rumors that Russia's been training dolphins for underwater military/spy stuff. So has the US, supposedly. But, did it actually ever come to the point where it actually WORKED?

The Russians never said anything about protecting the bridge from drones on the surface. Just the sky and underwater. While Ukraine says they used a surface drone.

[bilateralrope]

Putin says African proposal could be basis for peace in Ukraine

The proposal floats a series of possible steps to defuse the conflict, including a Russian troop pullback from Ukraine.

30 Jul 2023

Russian President Vladimir Putin has said that an initiative presented by African leaders could be a basis for peace in Moscow’s war on Ukraine but claimed that attacks from Kyiv made a cessation of hostilities “virtually impossible”.

The Russian leader made the comments in Moscow on Saturday after meeting leaders from Africa in Saint Petersburg and hearing their calls for Russia to move ahead with their plan.

The proposal, according to the Reuters news agency, floats a series of possible steps to defuse the conflict, including a Russian troop pullback, removal of Russian tactical nuclear weapons from Belarus, suspension of an International Criminal Court (ICC) arrest warrant against Putin and sanctions relief.

Details of the proposal have not been publicised.

“There are things that are virtually impossible to implement, like a ceasefire – but Ukraine is advancing, they’re on a strategic offensive, how do we hold our fire when they’re advancing on us?” Putin told reporters.

“This can only be a bilateral initiative. But the [African] initiative in my opinion can become the foundation of certain processes towards a peaceful resolution, just like China’s initiative, there’s no competition or contradiction here,” he said.

Kyiv, too, has previously poured cold water on the African plan.

The Chinese proposal, unveiled earlier this year, is a 12-point position paper that calls for a de-escalation and eventual ceasefire in Ukraine.

Volodymyr Zelenskyy, the Ukrainian president, has rejected the idea of a ceasefire now, which would leave Russia in control of nearly a fifth of his country and give its forces time to regroup after 17 grinding months of war.

He has also said that peace talks would require Moscow to withdraw its forces from occupied Ukrainian territory, something Russia has said is not negotiable.

Commenting on the subject of peace talks, Putin said, “We did not reject them”, but that “in order for this process to begin, there needs to be agreement on both sides”.

The Russian president also appeared to downplay not attending an economic summit in South Africa’s Johannesburg next month amid the controversy over the ICC arrest warrant, issued over war crimes relating to the abduction of children from Ukraine.

Asked about his reasons for not going, Putin told Russian journalists that he was “in contact with all colleagues” from the bloc of developing economies known as BRICS, and said he did not “think my presence at the BRICS summit is more important that my presence here, in Russia, right now”.

He added that he will take part via video link and Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov will travel to the August 22-24 gathering, which will bring together leaders from Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa.

South Africa is a signatory to the Rome treaty that formed the ICC and is therefore obligated to arrest the Russian leader if he sets foot on South African territory.

South Africa had given strong hints that it would not arrest Putin if he attended but had also been lobbying for him not to come to avoid the problem.

Although Moscow dismissed the warrant, Putin has not travelled to a country that is a signatory to the ICC treaty since his indictment. Analysts have said that the public debate about whether the Russian leader would travel to South Africa was in itself an unwelcome development for the Kremlin.

It sounds like Putin is feeling some pressure.

[Lord Revan]

Possibly though it could also be a case that South African proposal is another case "Russia gets what they want and Ukraine can't do anything about it" in which case I don't really judge Ukrainians for rejecting it.

If for example "Ukraine" is defined in such a away that Russia still gets to keep the part it annexed a while back then "troop pull back from Ukraine" would be little more then an empty gesture.

[bilateralrope]

Possibly though it could also be a case that South African proposal is another case "Russia gets what they want and Ukraine can't do anything about it" in which case I don't really judge Ukrainians for rejecting it.

If for example "Ukraine" is defined in such a away that Russia still gets to keep the part it annexed a while back then "troop pull back from Ukraine" would be little more then an empty gesture.

Yes. It sounds like it's one of those plans.

Though the removal of nukes from Belarus suggests Putin is under enough pressure to at least pretend he's giving up something important.

[Zwinmar]

Peace plan is real easy: Russia pulls back to its pre 2014 border and keeps its grubby paws off Ukraine (or anyone else). That is all they have to do, but they wont because Russia is a bully and will pull this stunt over and over. You cannot appease them.

[wautd]

Peace plan is real easy: Russia pulls back to its pre 2014 border and keeps its grubby paws off Ukraine (or anyone else). That is all they have to do, but they wont because Russia is a bully and will pull this stunt over and over. You cannot appease them.

Russia paying for the damages they've caused and seeing their war criminals trialed in a war tribunal would be nice as well.

[bilateralrope]

Peace plan is real easy: Russia pulls back to its pre 2014 border and keeps its grubby paws off Ukraine (or anyone else). That is all they have to do, but they wont because Russia is a bully and will pull this stunt over and over. You cannot appease them.

The only thing I can see stopping Russia from trying this again is for all the countries nearby to join NATO. Anything less from a peace agreement means they will try again once they think they have sufficiently rearmed.

[Broomstick]

"COMBAT DOLPHINS"
Wow. Just... Wow...

Yes, I know theres been rumors that Russia's been training dolphins for underwater military/spy stuff. So has the US, supposedly. But, did it actually ever come to the point where it actually WORKED?

And what could the dolphins do, anyway? Swim up to the drone and nudge it off course is about all I could think of. At least a dolphin could keep up, I dont' see a diver being able to catch a torpedo or drone doing even 5knots.

Train a dolphin to tolerate having something on its back. Train it to swim to a boat or other target and bop the target with the thing on its back. When it comes time for the combat mission the thing on the dolphin's back is a live bomb and when the dolphin bops it into the target it goes BOOM.

It's not the like Russians would care about killing a dolphin.

[Zaune]

It's not the like Russians would care about killing a dolphin.

They might prefer to avoid having to train new ones every time, though. Might as well rig it with a timer.

[LadyTevar]

Peace plan is real easy: Russia pulls back to its pre 2014 border and keeps its grubby paws off Ukraine (or anyone else). That is all they have to do, but they wont because Russia is a bully and will pull this stunt over and over. You cannot appease them.

The only thing I can see stopping Russia from trying this again is for all the countries nearby to join NATO. Anything less from a peace agreement means they will try again once they think they have sufficiently rearmed.

Yep.
And don't hold your breath on the WarCrimes trials. That will be a resounding "NO DEAL" from Russia.

[LadyTevar]

It's not the like Russians would care about killing a dolphin.

They might prefer to avoid having to train new ones every time, though. Might as well rig it with a timer.

This is what I was thinking, yes. Training men is cheap.

Training ONE dolphin probably costs as much as one brigade of men, when you add in the price of maintaining the tank they live in, providing the food, any medications they might need, and the basic training just to get them to listen to you before you even start to get into the REAL training and equipment.

[Highlord Laan]

The proposal floats a series of possible steps to defuse the conflict, including a Russian troop pullback from Ukraine.

It sounds like Putin is feeling some pressure.

As if Russia will actually keep to a treaty.

[Solauren]

It's not a question of if Russia will keep to a treaty.

Will Putin keep a treaty is the real question.

[LadyTevar]

It's not a question of if Russia will keep to a treaty.

Will Putin keep a treaty is the real question.

Look at how well they kept the "Grain Deal" to get the answer to that one.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

It's not the like Russians would care about killing a dolphin.

They might prefer to avoid having to train new ones every time, though. Might as well rig it with a timer.

This is what I was thinking, yes. Training men is cheap.

Training ONE dolphin probably costs as much as one brigade of men, when you add in the price of maintaining the tank they live in, providing the food, any medications they might need, and the basic training just to get them to listen to you before you even start to get into the REAL training and equipment.

Better than a timer, a remote. In WWII they trained dogs to destroy tanks in this manner, though that program was a total failure.

[Solauren]

They might prefer to avoid having to train new ones every time, though. Might as well rig it with a timer.

This is what I was thinking, yes. Training men is cheap.

Training ONE dolphin probably costs as much as one brigade of men, when you add in the price of maintaining the tank they live in, providing the food, any medications they might need, and the basic training just to get them to listen to you before you even start to get into the REAL training and equipment.

Better than a timer, a remote. In WWII they trained dogs to destroy tanks in this manner, though that program was a total failure.

Modern remote control devices are probably better then animals anyway. Easier to mass produce, train, store, etc.

[The_Saint]

My understanding of dolphin and other marine animal use in modern military (pretty sure it's only Russia and USA with such programs) are as carriers of camera equipment and the animal is substituting for having to creatw a drone with sensors and then programming it to find 'odd' things like mines.

[bilateralrope]

The proposal floats a series of possible steps to defuse the conflict, including a Russian troop pullback from Ukraine.

It sounds like Putin is feeling some pressure.

As if Russia will actually keep to a treaty.

Last I heard, one of the things keeping Ukraine out of NATO is that Russia disputes who Crimea belongs to.

If The pressure on Russia increases enough for them to declare that Crimea belongs to Ukraine, that obstacle goes away. Then joining NATO is the rest of the peace plan. Except for some promises that nobody expects Russia to keep.

[The_Saint]

It'll be a pretty chilly day in hell for Russia to cede claims to Crimea. To do so would be a direct admission that everything since 2014 (not to dismiss anything prior) was just illegal dick swinging by Russia.

[GrosseAdmiralFox]

It'll be a pretty chilly day in hell for Russia to cede claims to Crimea. To do so would be a direct admission that everything since 2014 (not to dismiss anything prior) was just illegal dick swinging by Russia.

Hell would legitimately be at Absolute Zero before Russia cedes claims on Crimea (either that or the aftermath of something akin to DOWNFALL or STARVATION). Then there is the fact that this is the equivalent of Alsace–Lorraine for Russia, and those who studied history know how that went.

[LadyTevar]

Russians buying up Cheap Apartment Flats in Muriupol

TL:DR

Russia has been tearing down what's left of Muriupolian homes and apartments and building new ones on the edges of the city.
Of course, these are not for the Muriupolian Citizens to live in, these are for SALE to Good Loyal Russians.

Russia media is flooded with glowing reports of Muriupol's reconstruction:

"In the place of ruins, there are now new blocks of flats, nurseries, schools - everything's being restored with the most modern of technologies," says a report on state TV station Rossiya 1.

Russian citizens are listening, and are too busy dreaming of a nice big house by the sea to think about how it's going to end up with Ukraine takes Muriupol back.

[wautd]

Russians buying up Cheap Apartment Flats in Muriupol

TL:DR

Russia has been tearing down what's left of Muriupolian homes and apartments and building new ones on the edges of the city.
Of course, these are not for the Muriupolian Citizens to live in, these are for SALE to Good Loyal Russians.

Russia media is flooded with glowing reports of Muriupol's reconstruction:

"In the place of ruins, there are now new blocks of flats, nurseries, schools - everything's being restored with the most modern of technologies," says a report on state TV station Rossiya 1.

Russian citizens are listening, and are too busy dreaming of a nice big house by the sea to think about how it's going to end up with Ukraine takes Muriupol back.

I've read that article the other day and it boiled my blood. If that isn't evidence of Russia's ethnic cleansing and colonialism then I don't know what is. And how zombified and brainwashed are those russians who think it's a sane to move to Mariupol and buy an appartment in occupied territory