UKRAINE WAR - 1 YEAR AND GOING.

[Zaune]

Well, that's a new one alright. Weaponised gentrification!

[Solauren]

Well, that's a new one alright. Weaponised gentrification!

Actually, it's not.

It was at one time very common for conquered territory to be offered to sale to the conqueror's citizens.
A prime example would be part of the events that lead up to the English Civil War called the War of the Roses.

England had invaded France, and occupied a good section of it, and then sold/leased out land to Englishmen.
After the King died, and his son took over, the son arranged for peace. The deal was 'peace, and a wife, for the land'.
The french king sent his daughter to marry the English king. They were married, and the land automatically transferred back.
And then the french drove off and killed all the Englishmen.

That, and a few other things, lead to the House of York taking power from the Lancasters, putting RIchard of York on the throne.

I think Putin is trying to set up something like that.
If Russia holds onto the territory, they have loyal Russians in place.
If they don't, the Ukrainians have a choice - killl/drive out the Russians, or let them stay.
if they stay, Russia has loyalists in place for the next attempt to invade.
If the Ukrainians drive them out, now the rest of Russia is mad at that treatment.

Win-Win, and Russia gets $$$ for the land they 'sold'.

[Ralin]

if they stay, Russia has loyalists in place for the next attempt to invade.
If the Ukrainians drive them out, now the rest of Russia is mad at that treatment.

1) How many Russian citizens are going to willingly stay in a reclaimed Ukranian city?
2) "Russia will get mad" seems very low on the list of things a victorious Ukranian government is likely to be concerned about.

[LaCroix]

Also, have you seen most of Russia?

Living in a warzone, but with at least some infrastructure still existing/being rebuilt as a propaganda project is going to look quite good for a lot of people.

[Ralin]

Also, have you seen most of Russia?

Living in a warzone, but with at least some infrastructure still existing/being rebuilt as a propaganda project is going to look quite good for a lot of people.

Yeah that's a good point. Willing to bet there are also resettlement payments and such floating around as incentives. Probably really favorable loan terms for buying apartments and houses too.

[LaCroix]

1) see my post above...
2)This is for internal consumption - having these people driven out of Ukraine will allow the Government to claim "see- we told you they are monsters and hate all of us - we did it for YOU!"

And once these people are all thrown out of ukraine and back over the border, you got a lot of people with no money left, no home to stay, a family to feed... perfect recruitment material...

Everything can be utilized in multiple ways.

[Ralin]

2)This is for internal consumption - having these people driven out of Ukraine will allow the Government to claim "see- we told you they are monsters and hate all of us - we did it for YOU!"

I feel like, even assuming spin and apathy and people being dumb, that very, very few people who haven't completely chugged the Kool aid are going to think that Russians who moved into conquered territory getting kicked out after that territory was taken back is a horrific crime against the Russian people. I mean come on.

[LadyTevar]

Also, have you seen most of Russia?

Living in a warzone, but with at least some infrastructure still existing/being rebuilt as a propaganda project is going to look quite good for a lot of people.

Yeah that's a good point. Willing to bet there are also resettlement payments and such floating around as incentives. Probably really favorable loan terms for buying apartments and houses too.

One of those quoted in the article, "Vladamir"* was said to be living in Artic Russia.
So, hmm, move to a place that's warmer than the Artic, has an ocean view, and it's cheap (and probably bigger than his current living area)? No wonder he went ahead and sold his current house and is just waiting to move.
I almost pity him, until I read where he believes UKRAINE was the one to level the city.

* -- name was change for the article

[LadyTevar]

2)This is for internal consumption - having these people driven out of Ukraine will allow the Government to claim "see- we told you they are monsters and hate all of us - we did it for YOU!"

I feel like, even assuming spin and apathy and people being dumb, that very, very few people who haven't completely chugged the Kool aid are going to think that Russians who moved into conquered territory getting kicked out after that territory was taken back is a horrific crime against the Russian people. I mean come on.

Dude... look at the Trumpers in the US, and THEN TELL ME there's not equally stupid people in Russia.

[Ralin]

Dude... look at the Trumpers in the US, and THEN TELL ME there's not equally stupid people in Russia.

What did you think I meant by 'completely chugged the Kool-Aid?'

[Gandalf]

One of those quoted in the article, "Vladamir"* was said to be living in Artic Russia.
So, hmm, move to a place that's warmer than the Artic, has an ocean view, and it's cheap (and probably bigger than his current living area)? No wonder he went ahead and sold his current house and is just waiting to move.
I almost pity him, until I read where he believes UKRAINE was the one to level the city.

* -- name was change for the article

It's like a modern Russian version of Lincoln's Homestead Act. Put a place within your borders, and encourage internal migration to solidify your claim over the territory.

[LadyTevar]

One of those quoted in the article, "Vladamir"* was said to be living in Artic Russia.
So, hmm, move to a place that's warmer than the Artic, has an ocean view, and it's cheap (and probably bigger than his current living area)? No wonder he went ahead and sold his current house and is just waiting to move.
I almost pity him, until I read where he believes UKRAINE was the one to level the city.

* -- name was change for the article

It's like a modern Russian version of Lincoln's Homestead Act. Put a place within your borders, and encourage internal migration to solidify your claim over the territory.

It's been working for Israel for decades.

[Gandalf]

It's been working for Israel for decades.

Indeed. On a bigger scale, look at Australia and North America.

Having taken all of the land centuries ago, it's now inconceivable now for many people to ever talk decolonisation in a rational way, having benefitted from the state violently making space for them.

[LadyTevar]

It's been working for Israel for decades.

Indeed. On a bigger scale, look at Australia and North America.

Having taken all of the land centuries ago, it's now inconceivable now for many people to ever talk decolonisation in a rational way, having benefitted from the state violently making space for them.

Unfortunately true.
Even to the point of using infectious diseases to get rid of them.

And, according to recent theories, those diseases were first accidently spread from the Conqistadors in Mexico through the Native trade routes, which is why the English colonists thought the land 'deserted' and the Natives in small communities. Nothing like a plague to kill off entire tribes and leave their land fallow.

[wautd]

Russian terrorist attack targeting journalists and rescue workers in a "double-tap" missile attack on a hotel and pizzeria in Pokrovsk kills 7 people and injures 81 people (although the numbers might still increase)

[wautd]

Putin’s Forever War

Interesting longread on the NYT.
Not included in this article, but apparantly, Russia will change its school curriculum on September 1st where history will be rewritten again, the unprovoked invasion will be justified and the West will be villified. With Putin turning Russia into a fascist North Korea, I don't see this war ending any time soon

[Juubi Karakuchi]

I suppose it depends on your definition of 'end'.

It's quite plausible that Ukraine could force Russia from its territory, including Crimea, over the next few years. But Putin doesn't have to stop there, so long as he's in power. All he needs to do is throw the odd missile Ukraine's way every now and then, and the war is technically still on. Simply refusing to stop may end up being the only plausible bargaining chip he has left.

[bilateralrope]

Russians ask people not to burn down military enlistment offices, blaming "Ukrainian scammers" for it

TETIANA LOZOVENKO — TUESDAY, 8 AUGUST 2023, 12:42

The Russian Ministry of Internal Affairs has claimed that "phone scammers from Ukraine" are forcing Russians to commit sabotage and terrorist attacks.

Source: Interfax, a Russian news outlet, with reference to the press service of the Russian Ministry of Internal Affairs

Quote from the Russian Interior Ministry: "The scammers start a conversation with victims using standard techniques: they report supposedly suspicious transfers from their bank account, attempts to take out a loan on their behalf, or offer to help law enforcement agencies stop the criminals.

After the scheme is successfully implemented and the deceived people lose all their money, the criminals do not stop. Now they try to push their easily influenced victims into committing a crime."

Details: "Phone scammers" offer a way to return the money, take revenge on the scammers or help in their detention, and sometimes "employ threats".

Quote from the Russian Interior Ministry: "But whatever the pretext, it all ends the same way: with a demand to set fire to military, transport or banking infrastructure facilities.

... It is noteworthy that fraudsters began to use this technique on a large scale only during the last week."

More details: The so-called scammers also directly address Russians with a proposal to arrange a sabotage for money.

Background:

Since the end of July 2023, more than 30 military enlistment offices have been set on fire in Russia. Some arsonists claimed that they were following the "instructions of the FSB" and were carrying out tasks given to them over the phone.

Ukrainska Pravda is the place where you will find the most up-to-date information about everything related to the war in Ukraine. Follow us on Twitter, support us, or become our patron!

Last time I heard of scammers pulling something like this was back in 2016 when they were targeting Burger Kings in the US.

[Solauren]

Scammers doing what's basically a public service??!?!?

That's, confusing to say the least....

[Lord Revan]

I suppose it depends on your definition of 'end'.

It's quite plausible that Ukraine could force Russia from its territory, including Crimea, over the next few years. But Putin doesn't have to stop there, so long as he's in power. All he needs to do is throw the odd missile Ukraine's way every now and then, and the war is technically still on. Simply refusing to stop may end up being the only plausible bargaining chip he has left.

there's the matter that the Forever War North Korea has been engaging has drained their coffers and really the only reason North Korea hasn't been forced to sue for peace is support from China but we don't know if China is either willing or capable of supporting 2 bankrupted states whose actions only drain resources.

[Ralin]

there's the matter that the Forever War North Korea has been engaging has drained their coffers and really the only reason North Korea hasn't been forced to sue for peace is support from China but we don't know if China is either willing or capable of supporting 2 bankrupted states whose actions only drain resources.

It is?

What about all that aid the US has sent them?

Also North Korea doesn't have oil

[Solauren]

1) How many Russian citizens are going to willingly stay in a reclaimed Ukranian city?
3 bedroom house, with free working water and electricity, 1/3 the cost of your current home and none of the utility bills, in historically Russian territory! Incentives to move!

You'd see alot of low income people going 'fuck yeah'.



2) "Russia will get mad" seems very low on the list of things a victorious Ukranian government is likely to be concerned about.
No, but having angry Russian citizens volunteering to reclaim 'lost Russian territory/avenge wronged Russian citizens' is something Putin definitely wants.

[LadyTevar]

Quite a bit on the BBC website today.

Russian Convict Accused of Double Murder
Short Version:
A convict press-ganged into Wagner after doing only 6 of 18yrs for leading a group of men in a murder/robbery/car theft, returned to the same town "on leave" and is now accused of another double homicide with two accomplices. The bodies of the victims show they were shot, and the female "suffered a violent death". The convict and accomplices are all in custody, the accomplices saying the convict was "in charge". The convict is claiming innocence.

Russia Still Obtaining Key Military Supplies
Short Version:
Russia is working with shady companies in China, HongKong, and other places to obtain computer chips and other electronics needed for modern war machines. Sanctions are continuing, but are they working?

Tensions Mounting on Poland/Belarus Border
Short Version:
After Belarusian helicopters crossed 2km into Poland, 10k Polish military troops are being moved to the border.
Belarus is denying the incursion, comparing it to "old wives' tales", while the townspeople of Bielowieza have posted photographs on social media of a Mi-8 helicopter and a Mi-24 helicopter with Belarusian markings, which BBC VERIFY states they have matched the serial numbers to helicopters seen at a Belarusian air force base in 2018.
Some think-tank talking heads are quoted on the reasons why Belarus would push Poland like this.

[Solauren]

I'm willing to give Belarius the benefit of the doubt as the national level.

Probably some idiot that screwed up caused the helicopter fly over.

[Batman]

Very likely. 2 km is small enough to be a navigation error (or even equipment inaccuracy, given those are old russian birds).