Why are all ship captains always literal captains?

[Adam Reynolds]

In real navies, much of the time the captain of a ship is not an actual captain. In the US Navy for example most destroyers and attack submarines are captained by a naval commander(O-5, contrasted with the captain as O-6). This is even more true in a branch like the Coast Guard in which they have a larger number of smaller ships for which sometimes the captain is as low as a Lieutenant(O-3).

Starfleet by contrast seems to exclusively use captains to be in charge of individual ships regardless of size, so you end up with Captain Freeman on the Ceritos having the same paper rank as Picard on the Enterprise or Sisko on strategically vital DS9.

[Gandalf]

Perhaps being out in deep space (and all of the subsequent wacky risks) requires specific administrative authorisations only available to Captains.

For example, UFP rules state that offically initiating first contact requires someone with a diplomacy rank of three or greater. This could be a certain level of administrative staff from the UFP bureaucracy, a person with the title Ambassador, or a Starfleet person with a rank of Captain or above. So many other possible scenarios are delegated to various governmental, political, and Starfleet ranks, that having a Captain solves the bureaucratic headache.

[bilateralrope]

How often have we seen a ship that wasn't an exploration vessel ?

I can think of two: the ship from Lower Decks. But it was still used for "second contact" missions, which sound like diplomatic missions. Even if they are more bureaucratic than first contacts. Or The Defiant from DS9, which was crewed by DS9 personnel.

[Crazedwraith]

This came up previously in the alien captains thread. and what I said at the time. Pretty similar to Gandalf's logic I think.

You make a valid point though. Just strikes me as really really odd. Gives you the odd situation where a full Lieutenant as Security Chief on a Galaxy might actually be responsible for more personnel than the Captain on an Oberth.

Yes but to use Worf as example only in regards to their security duties. Riker and Troi were seen often doing performance reviews / personnel decision. He still has them and Picard above him checking his work and ultimately having the responsibility.

The Captain of even a smaller ship still has ultimate responsibility for everyone on board and everything that happens. They might also be called on to conduct impromptu first contact and negotiations with minimal referral to the admiralty/starfleet command which a modern navy probably doesn't happen nearly so much. So they might like the captains of any vessel to have that experience and pull to handle that.

[RogueIce]

I think it's worth noting that Sisko did command the Defiant for a bit before he got his fourth pip in DS9. And indeed, the reason he started as Commander Sisko was to Be Different from a Captain always commanding. I don't think they referred to him as "Captain" while he commanded the Defiant as a Commander, though.

Anyway, I think Gandalf has the right of it, they want someone with the rank and experience of a Proper Captain because of how independent these ships tend to be. I could see a Miranda-class only have a Commander or Lt. Commander in charge, if it was only ever on patrol duties within the interior of the Federation. But we don't really see those kinds of ships in the shows, we see the ones out on the edges and frontiers, Boldly Going and all that so having somebody of suitable rank and experience to handle whatever comes up so far from Starfleet Command makes sense.

[Crazedwraith]

I think it's worth noting that Sisko did command the Defiant for a bit before he got his fourth pip in DS9. And indeed, the reason he started as Commander Sisko was to Be Different from a Captain always commanding.

And because that was what B5 was doing.

[Evilchumlee]

The easy answer is... Starfleet is not a modern day navy.

Starfleet's rank system and overall military structure is just not as rigid or formal as modern day militaries are, although we do have some evidence that that are some jobs that require a specific rank, and there are specific things that need to be done to acquire that rank. Side note, rank also less important to position, so it's entirely possible for an '09 Kirk situation where someone may prove to be exceptional at commanding a ship... but is NOT a Captain, and thus promoted to Captain for the position.

Becoming a "Commander" involves a specific test that must be taken, which then qualifies one for bridge command. Now we do see times when someone who is not a full Commander "take the conn", but I think that's different than actually being in full command... every shift has a Commander-level officer in command, but there may be times when that person is not directly on the bridge. We know Dr. Crusher would occasionally pull shifts in command on the bridge, but if she stepped off the bridge to go to sickbay for something, the next ranking officer would take the chair... but Crusher is still "in command", i.e. any big decision would still need to go through her.

Seems like becoming a full "Captain" is required to command a starship full time. SNW has shown that, at least in the 23rd century, if there's an operation where two ships need to work together on a single project, seems like a "Fleet Captain" is necessary if even temporarily. That seems to change later on.

In the long run, like I said at the top, in Starfleet I think POSITION is more important than RANK, but there are also regulations that certain positions require a specific rank.

In all fairness though we don't see many smaller, non-exploration ships so it's entirely possible there are Commanders for them. Hell we know DS9, initially considered a backwater unimportant assignment, had Commander Sisko in charge. Something like an old Miranda that patrols around and does police actions might have a Commander in charge. We just don't really see any of that.

[RogueIce]

Speaking of Starfleet is not a modern day Navy, we had Riker get four pip when he took command of the Big-E in "Best of Both Worlds" but then go right back down to three when Picard came back. I don't recall if anyone else got a "temporary" promotion like this that was then reduced...maybe Data that one time Jellico made him XO? I know he switched shirt colors but don't remember if he changed pips.

[Evilchumlee]

Speaking of Starfleet is not a modern day Navy, we had Riker get four pip when he took command of the Big-E in "Best of Both Worlds" but then go right back down to three when Picard came back. I don't recall if anyone else got a "temporary" promotion like this that was then reduced...maybe Data that one time Jellico made him XO? I know he switched shirt colors but don't remember if he changed pips.

Just recently, Pike got a temporary promotion to Fleet Captain, changed his insignia and badge.

The Riker situation may have been somewhat unique... if my theory is correct and one MUST hold the rank of Captain to command a ship, Riker would therefore HAVE to have been promoted to Captain, as for all they knew at the time, he was now in permanent command of Enterprise.

When Picard came back, Riker could have fought with Starfleet to keep is promotion, but that would have meant moving off the Enterprise, which Riker had already turned down. So he voluntarily took the grade reduction to stay on Enterprise.

Riker's promotion to Captain wasn't intended to be temporary. Starfleet had already tried to promote him. He finally took it when he was getting Enterprise. When Picard came back and it was either stay a Captain and move or go back to the old spot... Riker pulled a Riker and chose to stay on Enterprise.

Most other circumstances, whoever was promoted would have just transferred out.

[Juubi Karakuchi]

It may be an old age-of-sail custom; in which anyone in command of a ship is named 'Captain' rather than by their formal rank.

I vaguely remember this being suggested regarding the starship Valiant during the Dominion War. The ship was crewed by Red Squad cadets, but their captain was killed; and while dying, gave Cadet Tim Watters a battlefield commission as Captain. Nog and Jake Sisko arrived later, and Nog accepted Watters as Captain; despite being a commissioned ensign and thus technically outranking him. The title and status of Captain is distinct from actual rank or seniority. Though it probably didn't help that Nog was in awe of Red Squad, and couldn't bring himself to challenge Watters.

Also, Spock and Scott were addressed as 'Captain' during the TOS movies, on the basis that they had attained sufficient experience and status to become Captains; even though they weren't actually commanding ships at the time.

In other words it's all a matter of status, courtesies and tradition; rather than a strictly delineated set of titles and responsibilities.

[Evilchumlee]

It may be an old age-of-sail custom; in which anyone in command of a ship is named 'Captain' rather than by their formal rank.

That is directly addressed at points and it's absolutely true.

I don't think that stands in opposition that the formal, permanent officer commanding the ship bears the actual rank "Captain".

If Riker is sitting in the chair and Picard is sleeping or something, Riker is "Captain". If Picard is presumed dead or some such, Riker is actually promoted to the rank of Captain.

Though it probably didn't help that Nog was in awe of Red Squad, and couldn't bring himself to challenge Watters.

There were layers to that. If I recall, Watters suggested he received a battlefield commission to Captain... which may or may not have actually happened. I think it was more that, prior to passing, the Captain told Watters to take command... Watters... presumed that was a field commission to Captain.

Also, Spock and Scott were addressed as 'Captain' during the TOS movies, on the basis that they had attained sufficient experience and status to become Captains; even though they weren't actually commanding ships at the time.

I think it's more "A ship HAS to be commanded by a Captain, but a Captain doesn't need to command a ship."

Captain is a rank AND a position. Rank-Captains can do other tasks than Role-Captains.

In all fairness too, the TOS movies are all odd situations.

WoK, Spock was actually "officially" Captain of the Enterprise, which was to be used as a training vessel. Scotty was there to train cadets. Plot happens, and they end up on a mission.

ST3, they're heading back after all that and plot ensues.

STIV, same.

ST5, with Kirk now reduced to Captain, some strings were probably pulled to keep Spock on the ship. Scotty may not have actually been permanently assigned, he was overseeing the repairs/refit whatever they were doing. It's still possible thought that Enterprise was a training ship, it did seem to just tend to hang out around Earth at this point.

ST6, they were all basically retired and put on the ship specifically to project to the Klingons.

[Old Plympto]

Hi all. Old Plympto back after, I dunno, 15 years and a lot of hypertension medication.

Wasn't Data assigned the command of the USS Sutherland while he was Lieutenant Commander once? Everyone called him "Captain" while he was CO IIRC.

[Evilchumlee]

Hi all. Old Plympto back after, I dunno, 15 years and a lot of hypertension medication.

Wasn't Data assigned the command of the USS Sutherland while he was Lieutenant Commander once? Everyone called him "Captain" while he was CO IIRC.

Yes.

It's mentioned in VOY "Nightengale" as well, that anyone in command of a ship gets called "Captain". It's pretty well established in Trek.

The more pressing question is why everyone who is a permanent captain of a ship an actual Captain in rank.

The easy answer is... Starfleet isn't the US Navy. If given permanent command of a starship, you get promoted to Captain... even if it's not the next rank for you. Kelvin Kirk goes from Ensign to Captain.