Highlord Laan wrote: ↑2023-08-12 03:24am
I am legit hoping the trumpian hordes do something stupid during all this. I'd like nothing more for the zombies and their meal tam six fuckbois to get force fed the curb.
Oh look, it's the internet tough guy!
"I don't like what this person said, so I'm going to call them a meme."
He's calling a spade a spade, and you, once again, ARE acting the Internet Tough Guy, as you have in other threads on this Site.
Something you have been repeatedly been reported for, and IIRC Dalton has warned you about.
Do we need to have a discussion, or will you stop here?
Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet
Judge Tanya Chutkan rules ex-president free to share ‘non-sensitive materials’ but rejected majority of his other requests
Hugo Lowell in Washington
@hugolowell
Fri 11 Aug 2023 20.25 BST
The federal judge presiding over Donald Trump’s 2020 election subversion case on Friday warned inflammatory remarks from the former president would push her to schedule the trial sooner, saying she would take every step to safeguard the integrity of proceedings and to avoid tainting the potential jury pool.
The admonition came as the US district court judge Tanya Chutkan ruled on Trump’s requests to have fewer restrictions in a protective order that will govern what evidence turned over to his lawyers in the discovery process the former president could share publicly.
Broadly speaking, Chutkan ruled that Trump was free to share “non-sensitive materials” as designated by prosecutors, but narrowed the scope so closely that it could ultimately amount to only a pyrrhic victory. Chutkan also ended up rejecting the majority of Trump’s other requests.
The judge repeatedly emphasized that she would not take into account Trump’s presidential campaign, telling Trump’s lead lawyer John Lauro that the former president’s free speech rights were not absolute and that they came second to the fact that he is now a criminal defendant.
“What the effects of my order are on a political campaign are not going to influence my decision. This is a criminal trial,” Chutkan said. “The defendant’s desire to conduct a campaign, to respond to political opponents, has to yield.”
Trump has characterized the indictment, charging him with four felonies over his attempt to obstruct the congressional certification of Joe Biden’s election win on 6 January 2021 and to overturn the results of the 2020 election, as a political witch-hunt and infringing on his first amendment rights.
To that end, his lawyers had filed a 29-page brief before the hearing asking the judge to issue a less restrictive protective order, a routine step in criminal cases to ensure evidence turned over to defendants in discovery is used to help construct a defense but not chill witnesses.
Trump’s legal team had asked for various accommodations, such as giving Trump the ability to make public any transcripts of witness interviews that are not protected by grand jury secrecy rules and to expand the circle of people who could gain access to the discovery material.
Prosecutors in the office of special counsel Jack Smith had asked to impose a protective order almost immediately after Trump was arraigned last week, specifically referencing a vaguely threatening post from Trump that read: “IF YOU GO AFTER ME, I’M COMING AFTER YOU!”
The prosecutors did not ask the judge to impose a gag order on Trump to prevent him from discussing the case, but made an inferential argument that there needed to be clear rules on how Trump could publicly use evidence turned over to him in discovery.
The judge was skeptical of the government’s argument that even non-sensitive materials should be subject to the protective order, saying Trump was prohibited from intimidating witnesses as a condition of his pre-trial release, and agreed to limit the scope of the order.
But Chutkan was unimpressed by the attempt of Trump’s lawyers to designate witness deposition transcripts and recordings as “non-sensitive” and rejected that request, which will dramatically reduce the volume of records that Trump could discuss publicly.
The judge also refused to allow yet-unnamed volunteer attorneys or consultants working for Trump to view the discovery material, saying the request from Trump’s lawyers was so broad that it could “include just about anyone” including potential “unindicted co-conspirators”.
“The definition you have currently is simply too broad,” Chutkan told Trump’s lawyers. “It allows just about anybody. You know, I live in Washington, anyone is a consultant.”
Chutkan ruled that Trump would be allowed to review the discovery materials without needing his lawyers there with him every time, seemingly sympathetic to the plea from Trump’s lawyer John Lauro that “babysitting” his client while he read transcripts was not practical.
The judge, however, imposed caveats after prosecutor Thomas Windom raised concerns that Trump might try to copy sensitive discovery materials if left alone with them. “He has shown a tendency to desire to hold on to material he knows he should not have,” Windom quipped.
Chutkan’s final decision was to allow Trump to review the discovery materials alone so long as he did not carry electronic devices that could replicate the records. She also ruled that Trump could take notes, but that his lawyers needed to review them to ensure it did not include “sensitive” content.
The judge also made clear that the moment Trump took a break from looking at the the discovery materials, his lawyers needed to regain custody of them from Trump. “Certainly he can’t carry them around with him,” Chutkan said.
Trump was represented in court by Lauro, a former federal prosecutor, his law firm partner Gregory Singer, and Todd Blanche. Afterwards, Lauro declined to comment on the hearing. The government was represented in court by prosecutors Windom and Molly Gaston.
bilateralrope wrote: ↑2023-08-12 01:46pm
This could get fun.
I am not wondering how many lawyers are going to try working with Trump for this, and end up quitting to avoid the stress, ulcers, and possible criminal conspiracy charges Trump is going to cause.
I've been asked why I still follow a few of the people I know on Facebook with 'interesting political habits and view points'.
It's so when they comment on or approve of something, I know what pages to block/what not to vote for.
bilateralrope wrote: ↑2023-08-12 01:46pm
This could get fun.
I am not wondering how many lawyers are going to try working with Trump for this, and end up quitting to avoid the stress, ulcers, and possible criminal conspiracy charges Trump is going to cause.
There are restrictions on lawyers quitting in the middle of a case, in part because of the delay that introduces. So I wouldn't put it past Trump to try changing lawyers to add delay. If no lawyers are willing to touch him because he's an uncontrollable client, that's even more delay. It would be worse in the classified documents case due to the security clearance requirements.
Also, Trump has a history of not paying debts in full. Which also limits who would willingly work for him unless they get paid up front or some other assurance of payment.
bilateralrope wrote: ↑2023-08-13 02:37am
Also, Trump has a history of not paying debts in full. Which also limits who would willingly work for him unless they get paid up front or some other assurance of payment.
Specifically, it adds even more incentive towards his defense being run by True Believers who don't care about the money, with all the attendant consequences.
One does have to wonder how much overlap there is between "people who buy into Trump's personality cult" and "competent lawyers".
There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)
Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
-- fgalkin
Zaune wrote: ↑2023-08-13 10:47am
One does have to wonder how much overlap there is between "people who buy into Trump's personality cult" and "competent lawyers".
It would be a very small overlap, I think. Especially if you add in "UnPaid".
Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet
Presumably they'd accept a prestigious position in the new administration with ample opportunities to acquire various forms of plunder as recompense. Whether or not Trump follows through on that will hopefully remain a matter for conjecture.
There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)
Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
-- fgalkin
Zwinmar wrote: ↑2023-08-13 08:24am
Give him a public defender just like normal people have to use.
Public defenders are for people who can't afford an attorney.
You have a better chance of Trump defending himself in court than admitting he doesn't have any money.
Rule #1: Believe the autocrat. He means what he says.
Rule #2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule #3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule #4: Be outraged.
Rule #5: Don’t make compromises.
Zwinmar wrote: ↑2023-08-13 08:24am
Give him a public defender just like normal people have to use.
Public defenders are for the indigent - Trump still has money.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory.Leonard Nimoy.
Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy
Zwinmar wrote: ↑2023-08-13 08:24am
Give him a public defender just like normal people have to use.
Public defenders are for people who can't afford an attorney.
You have a better chance of Trump defending himself in court than admitting he doesn't have any money.
THIS RIGHT HERE.
Trump's lawyers are probably stuck for the long haul right now, and it's their own fault for seeing "money" should they pull it off. There's still the Fulton Co GA stuff that's yet to resolve, so there's that on it's way.
Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet
Donald Trump is already facing 78 criminal charges across three cases - but this week in Georgia, he could be hit with one he has never seen before: racketeering.
Local prosecutors in Fulton County have been investigating the efforts to overturn Mr Trump's defeat in the closely-contested state in the 2020 election.
US media reports suggest the district attorney's office could be pursuing racketeering charges that implicate several people in a sprawling election subversion conspiracy, with Mr Trump as the alleged ringleader.
If it does, it would be indicting a former American president on charges once used to convict mob bosses like John Gotti and Vincent Gigante.
And it gets more interesting:
Federal Rico statutes list 35 crimes that would qualify as evidence of racketeering, but Georgia's Rico laws choose from a list of 65.
Prosecutors are required to show that a criminal "enterprise" exists and to detail a pattern of racketeering that rests on at least two qualifying crimes.
Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet
I now have this mental image of just about everyone connected to Trumps administration (via knowing Trump), going 'oh shit' and calling their lawyer....
I've been asked why I still follow a few of the people I know on Facebook with 'interesting political habits and view points'.
It's so when they comment on or approve of something, I know what pages to block/what not to vote for.
The president can not pardon state crimes. Normally that's up to the governor of that state. Not in Georgia though, they have a pardon board who handles them.
If there is anything that's going to make Trump flee the country before trial or negotiate for plea deals, this would be it.
And if second term President Trump decides no actually the president can pardon state crimes which part of Georgia law enforcement is going to shoot it out with the Secret Service and possibly the Marines to put him in prison or keep him there?
Ralin wrote: ↑2023-08-15 12:32am
And if second term President Trump decides no actually the president can pardon state crimes which part of Georgia law enforcement is going to shoot it out with the Secret Service and possibly the Marines to put him in prison or keep him there?
He's gotta win first. And maybe the GOP will find their balls and not nominate him this time.
Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet
Ralin wrote: ↑2023-08-15 12:32am
And if second term President Trump decides no actually the president can pardon state crimes which part of Georgia law enforcement is going to shoot it out with the Secret Service and possibly the Marines to put him in prison or keep him there?
Well in that situation it becomes the question whether the secret service and the armed force will back him if he assumes unconstitutional powers.
A stumbling block of him remaining in power the first time was that they weren't likely to.
TD:LR --
BBC talked to older voters at a GOP Breakfast in Georgia. The Older GOP believes Trump is being targeted just to keep him out of the White House. They think he can win the trials and the White House both. They Believe in Trump.
BBC talked to Young Republican Voters at a Wine-tasting Fundraiser in Georgia. They're all seeing how Biden carried Georgia votes last time, not Trump. They're seeing how candidates who supported Trump lost their campaigns last time. They'll support Trump if he gets the nomination, but they want to see "young blood" in the nominations. They're very concerned about what will happen if Trump gets nominated.
SIde note -- I'm willing to bet all those attending the GOP Breakfast were all older, lower-income Republicans, Trumps "true base".
A Wine-Tasting Fundraiser gets those Republicans who can afford a $100/head dinner, the upper-crust of the Party, who are seeing the writing on the wall.
Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet
Ralin wrote: ↑2023-08-15 12:32am
And if second term President Trump decides no actually the president can pardon state crimes which part of Georgia law enforcement is going to shoot it out with the Secret Service and possibly the Marines to put him in prison or keep him there?
The Secret Service is to protect the president from harm, it's not to prevent him being arrested or facing justice. Trump was arrested in New York, even if he wasn't held, and the SS did nothing to prevent that.
Also, the marines - or whatever branch of the military you name - does not swear loyalty to the president, they swear it to the constitution. Despite Trump's and Trumpists' wet dreams, the US military is not a private army. Again, the marines will not prevent the lawful arrest of a government official.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory.Leonard Nimoy.
Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy
Ralin wrote: ↑2023-08-15 12:32am
And if second term President Trump decides no actually the president can pardon state crimes which part of Georgia law enforcement is going to shoot it out with the Secret Service and possibly the Marines to put him in prison or keep him there?
The Secret Service is to protect the president from harm, it's not to prevent him being arrested or facing justice. Trump was arrested in New York, even if he wasn't held, and the SS did nothing to prevent that.
Also, the marines - or whatever branch of the military you name - does not swear loyalty to the president, they swear it to the constitution. Despite Trump's and Trumpists' wet dreams, the US military is not a private army. Again, the marines will not prevent the lawful arrest of a government official.
IIRC from what I've read the Secret Service is suppose to be loyal to the "throne not the monarch" like the military and aren't duty bound to obey the people they are assigned to protect.
I may be an idiot, but I'm a tolerated idiot
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n
Even as a lowly Census worker and thus very temporary Federal employee I was required to swear to uphold and defend the US constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic. This applies to the military as well as the Secret Service. And "former president convicted of election fraud in an attempt to subvert the peaceful transfer of power" is, arguably, a domestic enemy of that constitution. The SS would still have to protect Trump from physical harm but that is all that is required of them, or even permitted to them. They will see that he is protected from harm during the arrest process and if he is imprisoned, but they will not (and should not) interfere with the legal system or any punishment handed down by that system.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory.Leonard Nimoy.
Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy
