UKRAINE WAR - 1 YEAR AND GOING.

[Broomstick]

Functionally, there is some overlap between a "guided torpedo" and an "undersea drone"

[Solauren]

I wonder if anyone has done work on drones that can both fly and navigate underwater...? Fly over the obstacle(s) (or hop over it like a flying fish) then onward to the target.

The two main issues I can think of here are physics and energy. Flying through air is a different proposition than going through water, and the energy requirements are different because water is obviously more dense than air.

Now, that said, you could *probably* make a literal flying-boat drone, at least; put detachable wings and tail on a small boat, fly it over whatever obstacles exist, land it on water, break off the wings and tail, proceed on top of the water. Under the water would be a whole other kettle of fish.

Which isn't to say that nobody has thought of it; someone probably has... but if there are serious efforts in that direction, nobody is talking about it yet.

Multi-component drone (kinda like a Doucon Transformer)

Aerial Drone essentially carries the aquatic/subaquatic drone close to the target, then releases it. It then ascends, autopilots back to base
The Aquatic drone goes online just before release, hits the water, powers up, and does it's think.

Basically mini-bomber dropping a mini-sub.

[LadyTevar]

Multi-component drone (kinda like a Doucon Transformer)

Aerial Drone essentially carries the aquatic/subaquatic drone close to the target, then releases it. It then ascends, autopilots back to base
The Aquatic drone goes online just before release, hits the water, powers up, and does it's think.

Basically mini-bomber dropping a mini-sub.

All that's old is new again. See Torpedo planes, as used in WWII and famously helped sink the Bismarck

The biggest difference now is both plane and torpedo can be remotely piloted, so no risk to human life, while the drone carries far more explosive power than the torpedos of old.

Either way, I really hope Ukraine blows up that bridge, one way or another. That would be the biggest black eye they can give Russia, stop a major supply route, and really boost morale.

[bilateralrope]

I wonder if anyone has done work on drones that can both fly and navigate underwater...? Fly over the obstacle(s) (or hop over it like a flying fish) then onward to the target.

The two main issues I can think of here are physics and energy. Flying through air is a different proposition than going through water, and the energy requirements are different because water is obviously more dense than air.

Now, that said, you could *probably* make a literal flying-boat drone, at least; put detachable wings and tail on a small boat, fly it over whatever obstacles exist, land it on water, break off the wings and tail, proceed on top of the water. Under the water would be a whole other kettle of fish.

Which isn't to say that nobody has thought of it; someone probably has... but if there are serious efforts in that direction, nobody is talking about it yet.

Multi-component drone (kinda like a Doucon Transformer)

Aerial Drone essentially carries the aquatic/subaquatic drone close to the target, then releases it. It then ascends, autopilots back to base
The Aquatic drone goes online just before release, hits the water, powers up, and does it's think.

Basically mini-bomber dropping a mini-sub.

What about the other way round ?

An aquatic drone to travel most of the distance with a missile to cross the torpedo nets. Then the aquatic drone attempts to return to base.

Or gets the russians to waste their time chasing it if Ukraine doesn't want to risk them following it to whoever launched it.

[LadyTevar]

The two main issues I can think of here are physics and energy. Flying through air is a different proposition than going through water, and the energy requirements are different because water is obviously more dense than air.

Now, that said, you could *probably* make a literal flying-boat drone, at least; put detachable wings and tail on a small boat, fly it over whatever obstacles exist, land it on water, break off the wings and tail, proceed on top of the water. Under the water would be a whole other kettle of fish.

Which isn't to say that nobody has thought of it; someone probably has... but if there are serious efforts in that direction, nobody is talking about it yet.

Multi-component drone (kinda like a Doucon Transformer)

Aerial Drone essentially carries the aquatic/subaquatic drone close to the target, then releases it. It then ascends, autopilots back to base
The Aquatic drone goes online just before release, hits the water, powers up, and does it's think.

Basically mini-bomber dropping a mini-sub.

What about the other way round ?

An aquatic drone to travel most of the distance with a missile to cross the torpedo nets. Then the aquatic drone attempts to return to base.

Or gets the russians to waste their time chasing it if Ukraine doesn't want to risk them following it to whoever launched it.

Hell... make it a two-fer... Drone-plane drops sea-drone, sea-drone goes after bridge supports, drone-plane goes after nearby warship/patrol vessel to cause additional confusion/damage.

[Solauren]

I think we can all agree, multi-drone combinations certainly increase tactical possibilities

Now we need to have NATO figure out how to have drones drop off smaller drones that will act like buzz-droids on Russian fighters (purely for the lolz)

[Eternal_Freedom]

I think we can all agree, multi-drone combinations certainly increase tactical possibilities

Now we need to have NATO figure out how to have drones drop off smaller drones that will act like buzz-droids on Russian fighters (purely for the lolz)

Sooo...you wanna build Matryoshka drones? Seems fitting

[Zaune]

If the Russian military even vaguely had their shit together, they'd not only be jamming the spectrum bands the drones were being controlled over but direction-finding on the signals and hitting them with artillery. Remotely-piloted vehicles of any sort are rather antithetical to EMCON.

[The_Saint]

All the block ships and EM jamming in the world won't have much effect on a Storm Shadow / SCALP.

[LaCroix]

Also, they are already equipping some drones with AI that keeps it on target if the guidance is interrupted in some way during terminal.

[Solauren]

Also, they are already equipping some drones with AI that keeps it on target if the guidance is interrupted in some way during terminal.

I'm pretty sure that's called 'autopilot'.

But seriously, that is not a surprise. Jamming radio/communications is 'old hat' for military, so having your remote controls be able to take over themselves in that event isn't a 'can we do it', it's a 'we will need this eventually'.

[Batman]

There's a world of difference between an autopilot that can follow a preprogrammed flight plan an AI with actual decision making capabilities.

[Zaune]

Indeed. As I have often said when this topic comes up elsewhere, when someone creates an AI that's sophisticated enough to be entrusted with completely unsupervised, autonomous weapons-release authority they'll have to let it vote and pay it wages.

[LaCroix]

They are now sendind the VDV (or whatever they have trained up to replace the losses) to man the trenches at the southern looming breakthrough.

Sending "special forces"/paratroopers to man trenches means you have nothing else left. Nothing of their training will help them to be any more effective than a normal infantryman at dodging artillery shells and drones. Sending those meas that all your reserves are deployed and you need to start pulling from other locations to plug gaps.

8 weeks. It took eight weeks to get "off the beach", but it seems like the breach is imminent, now.

People keep posting about the fabled defensive lines, but then, with no one sitting inside those positions, they are nothing more than a slightly more secure backyard fence.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Except for the dense minefields the Russians have left in their wake that Ukraine has to deal with.

[LaCroix]

Even those HAVE to be less dense between the defense lines, for the russians need to sally out to reenforce the line in front of them, so there are corridors for counterattacks, while the first line has nothing but a death zone in front of it.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

If the Russians are even halfway competent they're going to be training all their guns on those corridors. Based on what we've seen so far, that's far from a given, mind

[Lord Revan]

Well if Russians were even halfway competent they'd probably be in Kyiv by now, since even with their clusterfuck of plan they got close and during the early period of the war Russia was much stronger then it is now. Russia's problem is/was wasting the strength they got not that didn't have it.

That said they're not totally moronic either so targeting predetermined corridors of attack might be something they do, that said there's no telling if their artillery is in good enough condition to do so or that they got enough ammo on site to do it.

[Broomstick]

One problem with laying a minefield during an active war is that the person(s) who know where all the mines are, including those corridors, might get killed - in which case no one might know how all that is laid out. It's happened in other conflicts, I could certainly see it happening here. This can cause all sorts of complications for the Russians.

[LaCroix]

Of course they will target those.

But guns can be destroyed - where do you think the ukrainians are wrecking 30-ish guns per day...

Mine clearing under fire takes much longer...
Funny enough, the mines are easily spotted. After a long hot day, they show up on ir cams in the evening/night. Makes mapping your attack and deminingsoo much quicker...

UA drones just blew up the main transport airport hub at Kresty in pskov... oil, ammo, a couple IL 76.

Those were crucial at stopping the kharkiv breakthrough, airlifting man, material and jeavy equipment to plug the gaps. Taking that out now means that RU will struggle to do the same at the southern front in the near future.

[LadyTevar]

BBC news article today: Russia's kamikaze drones

In short, Russia's started sending 'on station' drones up. One drone has targeting computer and finds a vehicle on the ground. It then sends the targeting info to an attack drone.
The article doesn't say if the surveilance drones are piloted, but I'm guessing the attack drones just follow directions of "circle til target acquired".

[madd0c0t0r2]

We're getting ever closer to the flying minefield drones I invented for that storygame here a decade ago.

The ir trick us neat though

[Solauren]

BBC news article today: Russia's kamikaze drones

In short, Russia's started sending 'on station' drones up. One drone has targeting computer and finds a vehicle on the ground. It then sends the targeting info to an attack drone.
The article doesn't say if the surveilance drones are piloted, but I'm guessing the attack drones just follow directions of "circle til target acquired".

It's taken this long for that to be thing? That would have been like one of the first things I'd have been trying to figure out. As long as each drone could carry and detonate a block of C4, that's way cheaper then most missiles.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Both sides have been mounting cage armour on the roofs of their vehicles as a means of defence against such attacks.

[The_Saint]

Both sides have been mounting cage armour on the roofs of their vehicles as a means of defence against such attacks.

That and camouflage netting with wire cable or mesh threaded through it strung up high in trees helps catch the larger drones.
There was footage of a Ukrainian T72 under a tree that had 5 suicide drones hung up in the branches and netting above it.