Hamas launched mass attacks on Israel

[Darth Yan]

https://apnews.com/article/israel-pales ... 9284fc37d2

Several things.

1.) How in gods name did Israel not see this coming? It’s like the Yom Kippur War when Israel got caught with its pants down.

2.) A lot of people on twitter are advocating genocide against the Palestinians; I get that Bamas is committing appalling crimes but considering all the other horrible shit Israel’s done this year I can’t say I don’t understand them. Israel routinely commits atrocities and this year was bad by any standard.

[Jub]

Israel was a mistake.

[Highlord Laan]

Israel was a mistake.

Not reich enough for you?

Given their actions in gunning down bunkers full of civilians and parading the nude corpses of israeli women and girls, I think it's safe to say HAMAS has signed Gaza's death warrant.

Hamas has fucked around, now comes the "find out" phase. I fully expect the campus crusaders like Jub here to be in true high form.

[Jub]

Israel was a mistake.

Not reich enough for you?

Given their actions in gunning down bunkers full of civilians and parading the nude corpses of israeli women and girls, I think it's safe to say HAMAS has signed Gaza's death warrant.

Hamas has fucked around, now comes the "find out" phase. I fully expect the campus crusaders like Jub here to be in true high form.

I'm not breaking the IvP moratorium for this low-quality bait.

[Highlord Laan]

Israel was a mistake.

Not reich enough for you?

Given their actions in gunning down bunkers full of civilians and parading the nude corpses of israeli women and girls, I think it's safe to say HAMAS has signed Gaza's death warrant.

Hamas has fucked around, now comes the "find out" phase. I fully expect the campus crusaders like Jub here to be in true high form.

I'm not breaking the IvP moratorium for this low-quality bait.

Topic is literally about Israel, you step in and say "Israel was a mistake" then make a thinly veiled appeal to mods when you get called out on it. Are you sure you're not a sockpuppet account for RR?

[Darth Yan]

Given that Israel’s spent the last ten months supporting pogroms and ethnic cleansing I can’t don’t understand the reason for this. Heck the people of Sderot literally cheered as Palestinian civillians were murdered in 2014 and brought popcorn.

Israel started this mess and its existence is founded on the idea that Arabs are vermin.

[Jub]

Topic is literally about Israel, you step in and say "Israel was a mistake" then make a thinly veiled appeal to mods when you get called out on it. Are you sure you're not a sockpuppet account for RR?

Israel was and has continued to be a mistake. You cannot just carve up the Middle East, shove an entirely new nation into this already destabilized region, and then defend them no matter what they do and have it be anything but a mistake.

Not that I'd expect somebody who supports Israel's blockades, supports them killing "subhuman filth", and then has the gall to claim they're taking a neutral stance on Israel to understand these basic facts.

[Jub]

Given that Israel’s spent the last ten months it's entire existance supporting pogroms and ethnic cleansing I can’t don’t understand the reason for this. Heck the people of Sderot literally cheered as Palestinian civillians were murdered in 2014 and brought popcorn.

Israel started this mess and its existence is founded on the idea that Arabs are vermin.

FTFY.

[Adam Reynolds]

Hamas has fucked around, now comes the "find out" phase. I fully expect the campus crusaders like Jub here to be in true high form.

Couldn't you just as easily say that this is Israel's "find out" phase after they fucked around in their attempts to drive Palestinians out of their homes?

[Highlord Laan]

Topic is literally about Israel, you step in and say "Israel was a mistake" then make a thinly veiled appeal to mods when you get called out on it. Are you sure you're not a sockpuppet account for RR?

Israel was and has continued to be a mistake. You cannot just carve up the Middle East, shove an entirely new nation into this already destabilized region, and then defend them no matter what they do and have it be anything but a mistake.

Not that I'd expect somebody who supports Israel's blockades, supports them killing "subhuman filth", and then has the gall to claim they're taking a neutral stance on Israel to understand these basic facts.

When have I ever even pretended to be neutral on Israel? Or called the Palestinians subhuman?

You can bitch and moan from Canada about how Israel shouldn't exist all you want. It does, and it's not going anywhere.

You can also, as is the standard from people like you, completely ignore that every time in the past that Israel came to the table, or hosted it, set it up themselves, or invited the UN to be an arbiter at said table, it is swiftly followed by hamas ignoring or blowing up any agreement made because they (and their backers in Iran) demand, just like you, that Israel shouldn't exist. Then they launch rockets from the roofs of schools and hospitals and complain about return fire, all the while pearls remain clutched in the hands of campus crusaders like you as you cry about how Israel shouldn't exist.

Too bad. Israel exists, and it's not going anywhere.

As for carving up the mideast, I suppose you'll also say that none of the mideastern nations should exist either, since they too were "carved up" by a foreign power? Or would that not jive with your support of terrorist forces and your shared goals for Israel?

[Darth Yan]

Israel’s deals only ever amounted to bantustans and the Palestinians have only ever been justified in rejecting them.

Israel has never been sincere and their reason has always been the belief that Arabs are subhuman animals who deserve slavery.

If you believe Israel should exist as a Jewish state then by definition you think Palestinians are subhuman vermin. There’s no middle ground

https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/202 ... t23-10-07/

Zionism is a blight that belongs in the dustbin of history

[Jub]

When have I ever even pretended to be neutral on Israel?

Perhaps not neutral but you have said, "I'm not a backer of Israel's antics in any way" while whole heartedly supporting them at every turn.

Or called the Palestinians subhuman?

I never said you did.

You can also, as is the standard from people like you, completely ignore that every time in the past that Israel came to the table, or hosted it, set it up themselves, or invited the UN to be an arbiter at said table, it is swiftly followed by hamas ignoring or blowing up any agreement made because they (and their backers in Iran) demand, just like you, that Israel shouldn't exist. Then they launch rockets from the roofs of schools and hospitals and complain about return fire, all the while pearls remain clutched in the hands of campus crusaders like you as you cry about how Israel shouldn't exist.

It's almost like they're occupiers squatting on somebody else's land, keeping their hold through violence and conservative fearmongering rhetoric, and harming their neighbors with blockades that stop such terrible weapons as concrete from being shipped to them. Any concessions they could give would rightly be viewed as a token given the suffering the nation's continued existence will cause.

As for carving up the mideast, I suppose you'll also say that none of the mideastern nations should exist either, since they too were "carved up" by a foreign power? Or would that not jive with your support of terrorist forces and your shared goals for Israel?

As the lines are currently on the map? Fuck no. Things never should have been carved up so that ethnic groups straddle borders and one group is set up to rule over two or three other groups. The borders should have been drawn to create harmony not to sew discord.

[Crazedwraith]

If you believe Israel should exist as a Jewish state then by definition you think Palestinians are subhuman vermin. There’s no middle ground

Er... no? You can support a two state solution. You can think Israel should exist but shouldn't ethnically cleanse it's neighbours. You can think Palestine should exist but not rocket and attack Israeli citizens.

Nuance is possible.

[Crazedwraith]

double post.

[Jub]

If you believe Israel should exist as a Jewish state then by definition you think Palestinians are subhuman vermin. There’s no middle ground

Er... no? You can support a two state solution. You can think Israel should exist but shouldn't ethnically cleanse it's neighbours. You can think Palestine should exist but not rocket and attack Israeli citizens.

Nuance is possible.

The question is how do we get one side to stop harming the other long enough for them to co-exist peacefully when both sides keep painting the others as monsters? The only way it can work is if Israel is willing to stop first and pay reparations to Palestine for years of attempted genocide and the non-existent economy this has caused.

[Crazedwraith]

If you believe Israel should exist as a Jewish state then by definition you think Palestinians are subhuman vermin. There’s no middle ground

Er... no? You can support a two state solution. You can think Israel should exist but shouldn't ethnically cleanse it's neighbours. You can think Palestine should exist but not rocket and attack Israeli citizens.

Nuance is possible.

The question is how do we get one side to stop harming the other long enough for them to co-exist peacefully when both sides keep painting the others as monsters? The only way it can work is if Israel is willing to stop first and pay reparations to Palestine for years of attempted genocide and the non-existent economy this has caused.

There are indeed no easy answers. I don't know how to accomplish that but of course trying to dissolve Israel entirely comes with it's own massive practical problems with what to do with the population.

[Darth Yan]

A one state solution that secular is the only just option long term. A two state solution has never been anything but a pipe dream to sooth the guilt of the west

[Jub]

There are indeed no easy answers. I don't know how to accomplish that but of course trying to dissolve Israel entirely comes with it's own massive practical problems with what to do with the population.

I'd assume most would join the diaspora in the US where they would be, relatively, easily absorbed either into existing communities or into new areas created for them. It's unlikely to happen, but even negotiated displacement is better than the forever war that currently exists.

[Crazedwraith]

Jub: The US is just going to "absorb" 9 million people? (or 7 million if we just mean the jewish people)

Yan: I'm not sure a singular secular state is any less of a pipe dream than a 2 state solution.

[Jub]

Jub: The US is just going to "absorb" 9 million people? (or 7 million if we just mean the jewish people)

The US already does that with 1.5 million per year as a default state of existence. Done over a period of a decade that would less than double those numbers. Plus, 9 million is going to seem like small potatoes once climate crisis-fueled migration starts.

[Ralin]

Would be a lot easier for multiple other countries, possibly in the same region, to absorb the Palestinian population so that Israel can be left alone to Israel by itself. If we were going to go that route.

Speaking as an American I'd prefer not to have several million bitter ex-Israelis who are really, really motivated to want to see Palestinians and/or Arabs and/or Muslims punished voting in our elections.

[Jub]

Would be a lot easier for multiple other countries, possibly in the same region, to absorb the Palestinian population so that Israel can be left alone to Israel by itself. If we were going to go that route.

Speaking as an American I'd prefer not to have several million bitter ex-Israelis who are really, really motivated to want to see Palestinians and/or Arabs and/or Muslims punished voting in our elections.

If that were to happen Israel would only become more hated by its neighbors.

[Ralin]

If that were to happen Israel would only become more hated by its neighbors.

I find that very hard to believe.

[Jub]

I find that very hard to believe.

I don't see any way Israel finally succeeding in depopulating and conquering Palestine wouldn't cause their neighbors to see red.

[Ralin]

I don't think Israel's neighbors have a lot of room to hate them more.