Israel orders mass 'evacuation' from Northern Gaza, humanitarian crisis certain to ensue

[EnterpriseSovereign]

At the same time, Israel raised its official death toll to 1,400. The timing of announcing this is suspicious, it must be said.

I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Presumably, that announcing a big death toll gets them sympathy and makes it more difficult for anyone to object to their retaliation.

Exactly, which they state as conditions in Gaza get progressively worse.

[LadyTevar]

I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Presumably, that announcing a big death toll gets them sympathy and makes it more difficult for anyone to object to their retaliation.

Exactly, which they state as conditions in Gaza get progressively worse.

WE Don't Know That.
It might be because they discovered more bodies. It might be because some of the hostages were found dead. We Don't Know Yet.

So, please, careful making accusations like this just yet. Ok?

[GrosseAdmiralFox]

Note, however, that the other strike remains in question. Also, I'm not really sure we live on the same planet if you think the internet broke a Palestinian grip on information control.

You would be surprised, to be honest. Palestinian information control relied on what amounts to information lag, where it isn't posted/shown in real-time. The internet makes controlling the narrative in the traditional way a lot harder. That's why you started to see articles and videos of Palestinians thoroughly breaking practically the entirety of the Rules of War, excluding those relating to chemical weapons, in the late 20-aughts/early 20-teens.

If only Hamas used all the foreign aid to improve the infrastructure in Gaza instead of filling their own pockets and funding terrorism.

What, you mean like by buying concrete or something?

Given the structure of those tunnels, even concrete is to be considered suspicious. That's why the concrete used is considered of poor quality, as the higher-quality stuff is also great for making tunnels.

[Ralin]

Given the structure of those tunnels, even concrete is to be considered suspicious. That's why the concrete used is considered of poor quality, as the higher-quality stuff is also great for making tunnels.

Bitch what.

You're seriously defending making concrete a restricted substance because it can also be used to make dangerous underground tunnels.

So wautd, see why it's kinda gross to go on about how Hamas should have invested in infrastructure instead of terrorism when the Israelis block importing basic materials like that and mouth breathers like GAF nod their heads and go 'well yeah?'

[Gandalf]

That's why you started to see articles and videos of Palestinians thoroughly breaking practically the entirety of the Rules of War, excluding those relating to chemical weapons, in the late 20-aughts/early 20-teens.

"Palestinians" as in the state, NGOs, individuals, some other lot?

[Solauren]

Given the structure of those tunnels, even concrete is to be considered suspicious. That's why the concrete used is considered of poor quality, as the higher-quality stuff is also great for making tunnels.

Bitch what.

You're seriously defending making concrete a restricted substance because it can also be used to make dangerous underground tunnels.

So wautd, see why it's kinda gross to go on about how Hamas should have invested in infrastructure instead of terrorism when the Israelis block importing basic materials like that and mouth breathers like GAF nod their heads and go 'well yeah?'

I think he means they even cheaped out on the tunnels they used, instead spending it on high quality luxury items for themselves (the leadership)

[Broomstick]

But... there's now been deaths in the US over this:
Landlord Charged with Hate Crime killing 6yr old Muslim and injuring Mother

A man has been charged with murder and hate crimes after allegedly stabbing a six-year-old boy to death because he was Muslim.
Joseph Czuba, 71, is accused of killing Wadea Al-Fayoume and seriously wounding his mother in Plainfield, Illinois.
The landlord allegedly targeted the pair, who were his tenants, because of their religion and the ongoing conflict between Hamas and Israel.

There's more to the article. The father was away at a conference. They'd been living there 4yrs.
The landlord told the police he did it because of what happened in Israel, but I'm thinking mental illness or senile dementia was involved as well. It's still a horrific murder of a child, for no good reason.

Nope. The old asshole is neither mentally ill nor senile. This is a hate crime, pure and simple.

It happened only about 50 miles from where I live, it's all over here. Czuba is a right-wing down-the-rabbit-hole Trumpist who listens to Fox news all the damn time. According to the neighbors he was always setting out political signs and such. Rents space to this nice family, everything is fine for years, Czuba even set up a treehouse for the boy in the back yard, and a makeshift pool and bought the kid a few toys.

Then all the shit happens in the Middle East and the old man is listening to the Rabid Right echo chamber. Czuba's wife has stated that he was getting "paranoid" and was worried that the tenants who had lived there for years with no problem were going to call over friends to harm him (Czuba) and his wife. Czuba goes to his tenants, knocks on the door. Starts an argument with the mother Hanaan Shahin about what's happening in Gaza and Israel. Czuba gets agitated. Shahin said she tried to defuse the situation by suggesting they both pray for peace and that's when he went apeshit and stabbed her and her son while saying "You Muslims must die". Stabbed the mother 12 times and the six year old over two dozen times.

Wadea Al-Fayoume was buried today in accordance with Muslim customs but his mother could not attend because she is still in the hospital in serious condition.

Czuba is facing multiple murder, attempted murder, and hate crime charges. Here's hoping he's never outside of bars ever again.

Needless to say, the local Muslim community is outraged, traumatized, and fearful. The local Jewish organizations have also all condemned this murder and attempted murder. Pretty much everyone has condemned what happened, it's fucking tragic that what united everyone was this horrific murder of a kid. Absolutely no one around here, whether they have ties to Israel/Gaza or not, wants the conflict in the Middle East to come here. It's fucking scary that some old White guy listening to Fox news got the notion that going out and stabbing the unarmed and defenseless minority people was somehow his duty or whatever the hell twisted thought he was having.

But no, not senile or mentally ill, Czuba was in his right(wing) mind.

[Broomstick]

The quotes I've seen on that boil down to Hamas holding that all of Israel rightfully belongs to them because of course they believe that, but that they're willing to accept less than that because that's how compromises work. How explicitly they're willing to say that part varies depending on the circumstances, because politics.

The original Hamas charter from the 1980's was pretty much "erase Israel and eradicate all Jews", and is often quoted by many who do not like Hamas. They issued an updated charter in 2017 that now calls for the elimination of Zionists rather than Jews (there is a difference) but I'm not sure the Israelis are particularly reassured or trusting of that. I gather that on paper at least they have moderated and opened up the possibility of a two-state solution but the other side of conflict isn't convinced. Especially after October 7.

[Ralin]

I gather that on paper at least they have moderated and opened up the possibility of a two-state solution but the other side of conflict isn't convinced. Especially after October 7.

Yeah.

And again, they presumably want to project strength. Which they don't do by preemptively conceding a bunch of stuff.

[loomer]

Note, however, that the other strike remains in question. Also, I'm not really sure we live on the same planet if you think the internet broke a Palestinian grip on information control.

BBC News VERIFY on the Civilian Convoy Strike
TL:DR -- BBC verified that the video was valid, but they could NOT verify who/how/what caused the explosion.

Yeah, the whole situation is a mess, as usual. Its part of why OSIntTechnical (one of the few OS guys I actually respect) is cranky about people pointing to his work to categorically rule out IDF bombing elsewhere in the evacuation routes - even the experts are working on very incomplete pictures.

But... there's now been deaths in the US over this:
Landlord Charged with Hate Crime killing 6yr old Muslim and injuring Mother

There's more to the article. The father was away at a conference. They'd been living there 4yrs.
The landlord told the police he did it because of what happened in Israel, but I'm thinking mental illness or senile dementia was involved as well. It's still a horrific murder of a child, for no good reason.

Unfortunately, I think we can expect more of this over the coming months. Bad echoes of September 2001. And I wish I could say this one felt like a unique evil or a tragic case of an extreme senile moment but, well... Like I said - I think we should expect more. The scare campaign that people invented about sleeper cells activating across America, uber drivers trying to murder all the Jews, random Hamas guys dressing as Rabbis to wander around NYC asking people if they're Jewish, have all fanned the flames very effectively.

WE Don't Know That.
It might be because they discovered more bodies. It might be because some of the hostages were found dead. We Don't Know Yet.

So, please, careful making accusations like this just yet. Ok?

I'm with Tev here. Much as it wouldn't surprise me, until we have something to verify it as false a modest increase in fatalities - which as far as I'm aware includes combat injuries - shouldn't be immediately assumed to be pure propaganda. The best propaganda happens to be truth for a reason, and Israeli intelligence is well aware of that principle.

You would be surprised, to be honest. Palestinian information control relied on what amounts to information lag, where it isn't posted/shown in real-time. The internet makes controlling the narrative in the traditional way a lot harder. That's why you started to see articles and videos of Palestinians thoroughly breaking practically the entirety of the Rules of War, excluding those relating to chemical weapons, in the late 20-aughts/early 20-teens.

Then please, by all means - surprise us all with proper sources detailing how Palestinian organizations have secretly controlled the narrative for decades. I'll go get my popcorn machine while we wait.

[Gandalf]

*snip for brevity*

But no, not senile or mentally ill, Czuba was in his right(wing) mind.

A million times this, and thank you for saying it better than I could.

It's always alarming when the go to for an event like thjs is "mentally ill/stress/other." A clear lesson that people need to keep learning is that racism didn't go away. Racists just got better at hiding their hateful selves.

[GrosseAdmiralFox]

That's why you started to see articles and videos of Palestinians thoroughly breaking practically the entirety of the Rules of War, excluding those relating to chemical weapons, in the late 20-aughts/early 20-teens.

"Palestinians" as in the state, NGOs, individuals, some other lot?

In general? At first the various Palestinian 'resistance groups' (i.e. the PLO and the like), but major factions like HAMAS later. Some of the stuff I've seen and heard is some serious 1984-worthy stuff within Palestine.

Then please, by all means - surprise us all with proper sources detailing how Palestinian organizations have secretly controlled the narrative for decades. I'll go get my popcorn machine while we wait.

I'll have to dig up the (good/trusted) articles about the various Palestinian groups pulling fake massacres and whatnot... but the articles are old, and my Google-fu might not be up to the task. However, there are videos on YouTube that show how HAMAS and other groups have used ambulances as APCs (which completely voids their protected status); funnily enough, I can easily dig up those.

[loomer]

If you want to make the claim, be able to prove it.

[Gandalf]

In general? At first the various Palestinian 'resistance groups' (i.e. the PLO and the like), but major factions like HAMAS later.

So Palestinians "in general" are breaking all of the rules, but so are NGOs? Sit for a second and try to make your shit consistent.

Some of the stuff I've seen and heard is some serious 1984-worthy stuff within Palestine.

Proof please. Without the usual "I can't find it on Google" excuse if possible.

[loomer]

Per the president of MSF, hospitals in Gaza are now being forced to carry out emergency surgeries without pain relief due to the complete shortage of supplies. The ongoing denial of humanitarian aid to the conflict zone is unconscionable.

[loomer]

Now a few days old but I was unaware it had been picked up by Haaretz and didn't want to post what seemed liked a sketchy twitter claim. Al-Jazeera's also got video now which I also hadn't seen, for those who speak the language. One of the new ministers of the unity government has stated that the seizure of land is a necessary outcome of the war.

Those of us with an eye for it have been alarmed about what looked a hell of a lot like a breach against forcible transfer provisions in the evacuation orders. Minister Sa'ar's remarks seem to confirm the legitimacy of that concern, so no wonder the UN is now echoing that concern.

[LadyTevar]

*snip for brevity*

But no, not senile or mentally ill, Czuba was in his right(wing) mind.

A million times this, and thank you for saying it better than I could.

It's always alarming when the go to for an event like thjs is "mentally ill/stress/other." A clear lesson that people need to keep learning is that racism didn't go away. Racists just got better at hiding their hateful selves.

He built the kid a treehouse, bought him toys, and then went nuts and killed him.
Shit.

I was hoping for mental illness, because in a twisted way that makes it better. That gives a plausible explanation for why a man would crack and do this evil.
I almost wish we could categorize Faux-News watchers as mentally impaired. To think he just got riled up at the TV news, went and confronted her over it, and then lost his shit when she suggested "pray for peace"...
... shit.
There's no excuse for that.

[LadyTevar]

Now a few days old but I was unaware it had been picked up by Haaretz and didn't want to post what seemed liked a sketchy twitter claim. Al-Jazeera's also got video now which I also hadn't seen, for those who speak the language. One of the new ministers of the unity government has stated that the seizure of land is a necessary outcome of the war.

Those of us with an eye for it have been alarmed about what looked a hell of a lot like a breach against forcible transfer provisions in the evacuation orders. Minister Sa'ar's remarks seem to confirm the legitimacy of that concern, so no wonder the UN is now echoing that concern.

This is all inhumane. Hamas' attack, Israeli reaction ... all of it.
I hope the Minister who stated this does not get his way. Taking more of Gaza (and West Bank) is not going to make things better, especially since 90% of Gaza's residents are homeless refugees right now with no resources to rebuild without Israeli cooperation.

I could say more, but that would break IVP.

[Solauren]

*snip for brevity*

But no, not senile or mentally ill, Czuba was in his right(wing) mind.

A million times this, and thank you for saying it better than I could.

It's always alarming when the go to for an event like thjs is "mentally ill/stress/other." A clear lesson that people need to keep learning is that racism didn't go away. Racists just got better at hiding their hateful selves.

Given the timeline of events, it's probable Czuba wasn't racist, and was starting to suffer from mental health problems of somekind, and this lead to him feeling betrayed by his tenants.

Sort of like the person that works hard, then something happens beyond their control to screw with their life, so they take it out on people not connected. i.e the Kind and Loving Father who snaps and attacks his family after losing his job at work.

In this case, something in his mind went 'This is a betrayal of all your kindness to your tenants.' He felt betrayed, and went to confront them.
And it lead to a childs death

Yes, usually there is a pattern or indicators beforehand, but not always.

[loomer]

Not everyone who commits a racially motivated murder is mentally ill, and I don't think we need to find excuses for those who listen to propaganda and decide to enact violence. Anti-Muslim racism is at a fever pitch in media, and we need to accept that those who act on it are, with very rare exceptions, not helpless to control their actions but are rather actors of a growing escalation - just like when militiamen make death threats. The same pattern played out after 9/11, and the perpetrators there weren't mentally ill either.

Meanwhile, the UN Special Rapporteur on the right to health is calling for an immediate ceasefire and for aid to be allowed to move in to the conflict zone.

“All parties to the conflict and their international partners must ensure swift and unimpeded access to essential humanitarian supplies, including food, water and medicine, fuel, and electricity,” said Tlaleng Mofokeng, the UN Special Rapporteur on the right to health. “Gaza’s medical infrastructure has been irreparably damaged and healthcare providers are working in a dire situation with limited access to medical supplies and conditions that do not allow them to provide timely and quality healthcare,” Mofokeng said.

[Darth Yan]

That's why you started to see articles and videos of Palestinians thoroughly breaking practically the entirety of the Rules of War, excluding those relating to chemical weapons, in the late 20-aughts/early 20-teens.

"Palestinians" as in the state, NGOs, individuals, some other lot?

In general? At first the various Palestinian 'resistance groups' (i.e. the PLO and the like), but major factions like HAMAS later. Some of the stuff I've seen and heard is some serious 1984-worthy stuff within Palestine.

Then please, by all means - surprise us all with proper sources detailing how Palestinian organizations have secretly controlled the narrative for decades. I'll go get my popcorn machine while we wait.

I'll have to dig up the (good/trusted) articles about the various Palestinian groups pulling fake massacres and whatnot... but the articles are old, and my Google-fu might not be up to the task. However, there are videos on YouTube that show how HAMAS and other groups have used ambulances as APCs (which completely voids their protected status); funnily enough, I can easily dig up those.

Yeah any claim that Palestinians fake massacres is automatically a lie and the articles you cite are garbage. The ugly truth is that when a Palestinian is seen on video being murdered by an idf member or abused the Palestinian almost certainly IS in fact being murdered or abused (with any “evidence” otherwise being either faked, ignoring physics or edited.)

The only people who honestly make that claim are racist who want the Palestinians to be subhuman animals.

https://www.972mag.com/a-particularly-u ... pallywood/

https://www.972mag.com/pallywood-trope-second-intifada/

[Darth Yan]

Note, however, that the other strike remains in question. Also, I'm not really sure we live on the same planet if you think the internet broke a Palestinian grip on information control.

You would be surprised, to be honest. Palestinian information control relied on what amounts to information lag, where it isn't posted/shown in real-time. The internet makes controlling the narrative in the traditional way a lot harder. That's why you started to see articles and videos of Palestinians thoroughly breaking practically the entirety of the Rules of War, excluding those relating to chemical weapons, in the late 20-aughts/early 20-teens.

If only Hamas used all the foreign aid to improve the infrastructure in Gaza instead of filling their own pockets and funding terrorism.

What, you mean like by buying concrete or something?

Given the structure of those tunnels, even concrete is to be considered suspicious. That's why the concrete used is considered of poor quality, as the higher-quality stuff is also great for making tunnels.

Now you’re lying. If anything the media would accept Israel’s claims even if they were blatantly lying while assuming the Palestinians were slandering Israel. The internet made it easier to show footage of the IDF being heartless butchers and so the advocates changed the script and claimed they were faked.

You just want Palestinians to be evil

[GrosseAdmiralFox]

If you want to make the claim, be able to prove it.

Some videos from a thread on another forum that I keep going back to.

In general? At first the various Palestinian 'resistance groups' (i.e. the PLO and the like), but major factions like HAMAS later.

So Palestinians "in general" are breaking all of the rules, but so are NGOs? Sit for a second and try to make your shit consistent.

Some of the stuff I've seen and heard is some serious 1984-worthy stuff within Palestine.

Proof please. Without the usual "I can't find it on Google" excuse if possible.

I mean HAMAS and similar groups to use their homes and other protected buildings as weapon stockpiles, launch sites, and even tunnel enterences; attack people with knives; have genocide of the Jews in their charters and even if it isn't anymore, still follow through; kill anyone that is even possibly gay...

... oh, and have a video of how HAMAS and similar groups have been using their school system to turn kids into future terrorists:

Yeah any claim that Palestinians fake massacres is automatically a lie and the articles you cite are garbage. The ugly truth is that when a Palestinian is seen on video being murdered by an idf member or abused the Palestinian almost certainly IS in fact being murdered or abused (with any “evidence” otherwise being either faked, ignoring physics or edited.)

The only people who honestly make that claim are racist who want the Palestinians to be subhuman animals.

https://www.972mag.com/a-particularly-u ... pallywood/

https://www.972mag.com/pallywood-trope-second-intifada/

I'll have to dig for those articles, which take quite a while, for they were old internet articles and require sifting through a lot of misinformation.

[Darth Yan]

Israel also indoctrinates it's kids to see arabs as vermin (they deny the Nakba in text books or portray them as inferior primitives who need Israeli know how when in fact it was actually the Palestinians who farmed and Israelis who did a poor job.)

Any article you cite will probably be rubbish; Pallywood is as real as the easter bunny

[Gandalf]

He built the kid a treehouse, bought him toys, and then went nuts and killed him.
Shit.

I was hoping for mental illness, because in a twisted way that makes it better. That gives a plausible explanation for why a man would crack and do this evil.

I almost wish we could categorize Faux-News watchers as mentally impaired. To think he just got riled up at the TV news, went and confronted her over it, and then lost his shit when she suggested "pray for peace"...
... shit.
There's no excuse for that.

I get that being able to blame things like mental illness makes this easier. It's easier to blame things like that than it is to confront the hard truths about one's society. The Klan, Nazis, or whatever aren't mentally ill. Our societies create terrible people. Situations like this give them excuses to be openly terrible.