F-14 -- F/A-18 Question

Captain tycho · Post by **Captain tycho** » 2003-04-02 10:10pm

Dammit, the F-14 was a damn fine plane. I only flew it once, but still..

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2003-04-02 11:35pm

In my opinion the Tomcat should still be in production, though I must admit that for its intended role, the F/A-18 is far cheaper. Not that I doubt we'll ever need the F-14's servies in the future.

Will the F-22 and F-35 replace that craft? Are they in fact superior?

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-04-03 02:09am

Axis Kast wrote:
Will the F-22 and F-35 replace that craft? Are they in fact superior?

The Tomcat has no replacement- the Navy won't be getting any F/A-22s (pathetic little naming trick, that, there's nothing 'A' about it), since it just isn't carrier capable, while the USN future wings will be made up of F/A-18s and F-35s alone.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-04-03 02:31am

And not all A-6E Intruders were thrown into the sea.

A full one hundred composite-wing upgraded A-6E Intruders are at the Aerospace Maintenance and Regeneration Center, Davis-Monthan AFB, for storage, and are available to foreign customers.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-04-03 04:35am

Vympel wrote:And not all A-6E Intruders were thrown into the sea.

A full one hundred composite-wing upgraded A-6E Intruders are at the Aerospace Maintenance and Regeneration Center, Davis-Monthan AFB, for storage, and are available to foreign customers.

Or for me to drive by and wave to.

You want to see something creepy. Watch them chop up planes sometime.
They drop this huge wait from a crane and it cuts right through them. I've seen video of them doing it to old B-52s.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-04-03 05:17am

Tsyroc wrote:
You want to see something creepy. Watch them chop up planes sometime.
They drop this huge wait from a crane and it cuts right through them. I've seen video of them doing it to old B-52s.

Enough to make any aircraft fan cry.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-04-03 09:29am

Vympel wrote:And not all A-6E Intruders were thrown into the sea.

A full one hundred composite-wing upgraded A-6E Intruders are at the Aerospace Maintenance and Regeneration Center, Davis-Monthan AFB, for storage, and are available to foreign customers.

Maybe the Navy should work posthaste to get those birds operational again, or maybe even restart the A-6F conversion line if possible.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-04-03 09:30am

Axis Kast wrote:In my opinion the Tomcat should still be in production, though I must admit that for its intended role, the F/A-18 is far cheaper. Not that I doubt we'll ever need the F-14's servies in the future.

Will the F-22 and F-35 replace that craft? Are they in fact superior?

There will be no navalized F/A-22 unless the Navy forks out some serious cash. F-35 is the replacement for the F/A-18, and while superior it isn't quite the interceptor the F-14 was.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-04-03 09:31am

Vympel wrote:
Tsyroc wrote:
You want to see something creepy. Watch them chop up planes sometime.
They drop this huge wait from a crane and it cuts right through them. I've seen video of them doing it to old B-52s.
Enough to make any aircraft fan cry.

I've seen a picture on the cover of Air and Space showing a color aerial with B-52Gs in the boneyard being dissasembled

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-04-03 09:41am

Actually the F-35 is not a total replacement to the F/A-18. Supossedly all older model F/A-18s will be replaced. The F-35 will suppliment the F/A-18 numbers and most if not all of the F/A-18s will be the new Super Hornet model. The -18 is also supossed to be in line to get some thrust vectoring engines in the future. So it seems the navy is quite happy with the -18 being a smaller and cheaper equivilent to the F-14. I can see their reasoning, but its still a shame to see the F-14 go like this.

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2003-04-03 06:45pm

Are the F-22 or F-35 "better" than the F-14?

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-04-03 06:52pm

Vympel wrote:
Tsyroc wrote:
You want to see something creepy. Watch them chop up planes sometime.
They drop this huge wait from a crane and it cuts right through them. I've seen video of them doing it to old B-52s.
Enough to make any aircraft fan cry.

That's only done to aircraft, which must be destroyed under nuclear arms limitation treaties. Smashing them like that makes it easy to confirm the thing is both real, and quite destroyed.

I'm sure some people have tears seeing all those SS-18's being cut up and stacked before being sold for scrapping.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-04-03 06:52pm

Axis Kast wrote:Are the F-22 or F-35 "better" than the F-14?

What do you want your plane to do?

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-04-03 06:54pm

Axis Kast wrote:Are the F-22 or F-35 "better" than the F-14?

There is no naval F-22 and in all likelyhood never will be. If there was one, it probably would but superior in some respects.

And the F-35 a better interceptor, hell no. Perhaps, for strike missions maybe. But probably not better than the Super Tomcats or Attack Super Tomcats, had they ever gone through. Only area in which they'd be better was stealth.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-04-03 06:54pm

Alyeska wrote:Actually the F-35 is not a total replacement to the F/A-18. Supossedly all older model F/A-18s will be replaced. The F-35 will suppliment the F/A-18 numbers and most if not all of the F/A-18s will be the new Super Hornet model. The -18 is also supossed to be in line to get some thrust vectoring engines in the future. So it seems the navy is quite happy with the -18 being a smaller and cheaper equivilent to the F-14. I can see their reasoning, but its still a shame to see the F-14 go like this.

The future mix on carriers was supposed to be 14 F-35's and 36 F/A-18's along with a dozen Growlers by around 2015. But it seem that we may be seeing less then new 40 strike birds on each carrier. Though that's about how many they currently go to sea with.

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2003-04-03 06:59pm

Can the F-22 engage enemy aircraft at longer ranges?

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-04-03 07:00pm

Axis Kast wrote:Can the F-22 engage enemy aircraft at longer ranges?

Against the ideal combat load of the F-14 no.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-04-03 07:08pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Alyeska wrote:Actually the F-35 is not a total replacement to the F/A-18. Supossedly all older model F/A-18s will be replaced. The F-35 will suppliment the F/A-18 numbers and most if not all of the F/A-18s will be the new Super Hornet model. The -18 is also supossed to be in line to get some thrust vectoring engines in the future. So it seems the navy is quite happy with the -18 being a smaller and cheaper equivilent to the F-14. I can see their reasoning, but its still a shame to see the F-14 go like this.
The future mix on carriers was supposed to be 14 F-35's and 36 F/A-18's along with a dozen Growlers by around 2015. But it seem that we may be seeing less then new 40 strike birds on each carrier. Though that's about how many they currently go to sea with.

Man, that's sucky. They want a 15-CVN fleet, too.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-04-03 07:13pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Vympel wrote:
Tsyroc wrote:
You want to see something creepy. Watch them chop up planes sometime.
They drop this huge wait from a crane and it cuts right through them. I've seen video of them doing it to old B-52s.
Enough to make any aircraft fan cry.
That's only done to aircraft, which must be destroyed under nuclear arms limitation treaties. Smashing them like that makes it easy to confirm the thing is both real, and quite destroyed.

Didn't the USAF envision both the B-52H and B-52G remaining in service in the early 1990s, though? IIRC, the bomber cap had enough room for more than just a few dozen B-52Hs.

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2003-04-03 07:13pm

I want Super Tomcats, too.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-04-03 07:17pm

Axis Kast wrote:Can the F-22 engage enemy aircraft at longer ranges?

Against a closing target Phoenix can be fired at a range of 110 miles, AMRAAM is only good out to about 40. Though Phoenix is getting old and the rocket motors don't have much life left.

The Raptor would normally carry six AIM-120's and two AIM-9's, while a F-14 generalys flies with two sometimes four AIM-54's, two AIM-7's and a pair of AIM-9's. Though it can carry upto six AIM-54's with only two winders.

However a six AIM-54 loadout will never happen in combat. The USN doesn't have all that many of them, and the aircraft cannot land with six Phoenix's loaded.

The F-22 however can super cruise, which would allow it to rapidly close the range with any target, that goes a long way towards making up for more limited missile range. Then of course there's the whole stealth aspect.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2003-04-03 07:56pm

Axis Kast wrote:Are the F-22 or F-35 "better" than the F-14?

The F-22 isn't a naval aircraft. Hell, there's AFAIK only going to be ~250.

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2003-04-03 08:03pm

What's a "Grumbler" or "Growler" of whatnot?

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-04-03 08:08pm

Axis Kast wrote:What's a "Grumbler" or "Growler" of whatnot?

Growler. It’s the coming G jammer version of the two seats F/A-18F. It will replace the Prowlers, which currently does that job for the USN. The USAF also uses the Prowler, but it appears that it will be using drones and modified heavy bombers as areplacement.

The Growler will have the ability to use the HARM, just like the Prowler and normal F/A-18's. But I don't know if it will be capable of carrying other PGM's, though that seems very likely. The Jammer's with be in external pods like those of the Prowler.