UKRAINE WAR - 2024 thread

[Rogue 9]

The House has passed the foreign aid package, including Ukraine aid. NPR

House passes foreign aid bills to Israel, Ukraine and Taiwan
April 20, 2024 2:10 PM ET

By Barbara Sprunt

The House of Representatives has voted to pass roughly a $95 billion foreign aid package that includes funding to Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan.

Democratic support outweighed Republican opposition from those who had various frustrations with the speaker, including that he put forth a vote on Ukraine aid without first securing support for a bill aimed to strengthen security along the U.S.-Southern border.

The House-passed bills are similar to a $95 billion package that passed in the Senate in February.

The White House and Congressional Democrats urged Speaker Johnson to hold a vote on that package in the wake of Iran's recent unprecedented attack on Israel, and amid briefings that Ukraine is in dire need of U.S. aid.

Aid for Ukraine remains deeply unpopular with various members in Johnson's conference. By breaking the package up into distinct bills for aid to the three countries — along with a fourth bill aimed at implementing sanctions and policies to counter China, Iran and Russia — Johnson allowed members to vote their conscience on each piece of legislation.

President Biden said in a statement on Wednesday that he supports the House package, which now moves to the Senate.

Ahead of the vote, Rep. Michael McCaul, who chairs the Foreign Affairs Committee, said "history will judge us by our actions here today."

"The world is watching. Our adversaries are watching," the Texas Republican said.

Eyes on potential motion to vacate vote

On Friday, after the House cleared a procedural vote to advance the bills to a Saturday vote on full passage, a third Republican member signed onto the effort to remove Johnson as speaker.

Arizona Rep. Paul Gosar blasted the speaker for prioritizing Ukraine aid over efforts to secure the southern border.

This comes about a month after Georgia Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene first filed the motion to vacate resolution nearly a month ago, in part over frustration with the speaker on how he handled a $1.2 trillion spending package.

House Freedom Caucus chair Bob Good, R-Va., told reporters on Friday that although he doesn't defend Johnson's performance as speaker, he thinks it's not in the interest of the Republican party to go through another speakership fight six months before an election.

"I hope they will not move forward with that," he said of the GOP trio that is sponsoring the motion to vacate resolution. "I think we ought to have a contest in November, a deliberative process to select, hopefully, the speaker of the House majority. But I don't think it'd be a wise course of action to do that now."

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Thank fuck for that, only a day late. Hopefully not a dollar short.

[aerius]

Maybe because despite Russia's insisting on calling it a "special military operation", it's still an invasion and no amount of bullshit is going to change that.

People like you who are completely ignorant on the topic need to shut the fuck up. You don't even know why it's called a special military operation, along with its legal, political, and military implications.

Fuck off you Putin apologist, you can repeat his claims he's going after Nazis until the cows come home but in actuality he's been emulating Hitler more and more. The only people who need to STFU are pro-Russian assholes like you.

Like I said, you know nothing. Russia doesn't call it a special military operation because it wants to avoid the bad publicity of invading a country and wrecking the shit out of it as you're implying. It's called an SMO because there are certain rules & restrictions in play which wouldn't be there if they declared war, such as they did in WW2. An SMO means it's a limited operation where conscripts cannot serve in the conflict zone, and there are still major restrictions in play with regards to what the government can do in terms of conscription, mobilization, and organizing industry & resources.

In an actual war all those rules and restrictions are out the window, you have full conscription, mobilization, and the State will do whatever the fuck it needs to meet its military & industrial requirements. War rules also go out the window, Kiev and every other sizable city would look like Gaza and there'd be a hell of lot more than the 10-15k civilian deaths which have been recorded so far.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

People like you who are completely ignorant on the topic need to shut the fuck up. You don't even know why it's called a special military operation, along with its legal, political, and military implications.

Fuck off you Putin apologist, you can repeat his claims he's going after Nazis until the cows come home but in actuality he's been emulating Hitler more and more. The only people who need to STFU are pro-Russian assholes like you.

Like I said, you know nothing. Russia doesn't call it a special military operation because it wants to avoid the bad publicity of invading a country and wrecking the shit out of it as you're implying. It's called an SMO because there are certain rules & restrictions in play which wouldn't be there if they declared war, such as they did in WW2. An SMO means it's a limited operation where conscripts cannot serve in the conflict zone, and there are still major restrictions in play with regards to what the government can do in terms of conscription, mobilization, and organizing industry & resources.

In an actual war all those rules and restrictions are out the window, you have full conscription, mobilization, and the State will do whatever the fuck it needs to meet its military & industrial requirements. War rules also go out the window, Kiev and every other sizable city would look like Gaza and there'd be a hell of lot more than the 10-15k civilian deaths which have been recorded so far.

Except that's exactly what they're doing you moron, if Russia really gave a fuck about the rules of war they wouldn't be pulling shit like this. They have been resorting to using prisoners, and conscripting captured Ukrainians. And did you even see the state of Bakhmut by the end? It makes Gaza look like Kyiv. And it's spelt Kyiv, not Kiev

[aerius]

Except that's exactly what they're doing you moron, if Russia really gave a fuck about the rules of war they wouldn't be pulling shit like this. They have been resorting to using prisoners, and conscripting captured Ukrainians. And did you even see the state of Bakhmut by the end? It makes Gaza look like Kyiv.

Since when has any country cared about the so-called international rules of war? Russia is playing with kid gloves by their own standards, have you seen what they've done in the past in an actual war? Russia's killed fewer civilians in over 2 years of fighting than the Israelis killed in 2 months, we'd be looking at far more deaths if the SMO were an actual war.

And it's spelt Kyiv, not Kiev

And? Kiev is the traditional English name of the city and has been up until the past few years. You wouldn't even know how to spell it either way or find it on a map if it weren't for the ongoing war.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

With a healthy dose of whataboutism it's clear you're just trolling and have nothing of substance to contribute. Thank you for playing.

[J]

Thank fuck for that, only a day late. Hopefully not a dollar short.

Very simple question: How will the $60 billion in aid help the Ukrainians achieve a more favourable result in the conflict?

[J]

Thank fuck for that, only a day late. Hopefully not a dollar short.

Very simple question: How will the $60 billion in aid help the Ukrainians achieve a more favourable result in the conflict?

Result isn't really the right word.

The question should be as follows: How will the $60 billion in aid help the Ukrainians achieve a more favourable resolution to the conflict?

[Solauren]

Thank fuck for that, only a day late. Hopefully not a dollar short.

Very simple question: How will the $60 billion in aid help the Ukrainians achieve a more favourable result in the conflict?

Result isn't really the right word.

The question should be as follows: How will the $60 billion in aid help the Ukrainians achieve a more favourable resolution to the conflict?

At this point, short of being used as bribes during negotations, I don't think it can.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Thank fuck for that, only a day late. Hopefully not a dollar short.

Very simple question: How will the $60 billion in aid help the Ukrainians achieve a more favourable result in the conflict?

Straight from the horse's mouth:

"I am grateful to the United States House of Representatives, both parties, and personally Speaker Mike Johnson for the decision that keeps history on the right track. Democracy and freedom will always have global significance and will never fail as long as America helps to protect it," Zelenskyy said in a statement.

The vital U.S. aid bill passed today by the House will keep the war from expanding, save thousands and thousands of lives, and help both of our nations to become stronger. We hope that bills will be supported in the Senate and sent to President Biden's desk. Thank you, America!" he said.

[Gandalf]

That statement is so generic it could easily have come from George W Bush twenty years ago, or the Sarah Palin mockup on SNL.

[aerius]

That statement is so generic it could easily have come from George W Bush twenty years ago, or the Sarah Palin mockup on SNL.

https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-isra ... 9ce52141b3

The aid to support Ukraine totals about $61 billion. Republicans on the House Appropriations Committee said that more than a third of that amount would be dedicated to replenishing weapons and ammunition systems for the U.S. military.

The overall amount of money provided to Ukraine for the purchase of weapons from the U.S. is roughly the same in the House and Senate bills — $13.8 billion.

So $13.8 billion which the Ukraine can use to buy US weapons and the rest is economic assistance to keep the Ukrainian government functional plus the usual handouts for the US military industry. Are we actually supposed to believe that a mere $13.8 billion worth of arms is going to have any significant effect on the conflict when hundreds of billions have done little to swing the war in the Ukraine's favour? I'm sure Ukraine appreciates every last bit of help it can get, but unless that $13.8 billion includes a bunch of nukes it's not going to change the ultimate resolution of the shit show.

[J]

Very simple question: How will the $60 billion in aid help the Ukrainians achieve a more favourable result in the conflict?

Straight from the horse's mouth:

"I am grateful to the United States House of Representatives, both parties, and personally Speaker Mike Johnson for the decision that keeps history on the right track. Democracy and freedom will always have global significance and will never fail as long as America helps to protect it," Zelenskyy said in a statement.

The vital U.S. aid bill passed today by the House will keep the war from expanding, save thousands and thousands of lives, and help both of our nations to become stronger. We hope that bills will be supported in the Senate and sent to President Biden's desk. Thank you, America!" he said.

Really? That's your answer? A meaningless boilerplate press release which essentially translates to "we'll bring you freedom & democracy because we're America!" Ok. How? What are you going to do with the aid package, buy tanks so the Ukrainians can go on the offensive? Artillery shells so they can hit back at the Russians? Or how about a few dozen truckloads of cocaine & call girls to raise troop morale so they can charge onward towards Moscow?

I asked you a simple question and all you can do is cut & paste an empty press release. Are you even human? Can you actually synthesize an original thought? That's rhetorical by the way, but I feel it's necessary to point that out given your demonstrated inability to think.

[Dalton]

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