Trump and the Jan 6 investigation

[bilateralrope]

Him not paying her bills?

That's one possibility. The other one that comes to mind is that Tacopina thinks he's about to be a co-defendant with Trump.

[LadyTevar]

Him not paying her bills?

That's one possibility. The other one that comes to mind is that Tacopina thinks he's about to be a co-defendant with Trump.

Ah yes, that has become quite the problem with Trump's lawyers hasn't it?

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Donald Trump does not have presidential immunity and can be prosecuted, court rules

Donald Trump can face trial on charges to overturn the results of the 2020 US presidential election, after his claims that he is immune from prosecution were rubbished by a federal appeals panel.

The decision marks the second time in as many months that judges have thrown out the former president's immunity arguments.

Additionally, he can be prosecuted for actions undertaken while in the White House and in the run-up to the storming of the US Capitol on January 6, 2021

The judges gave Trump until February 12 to ask the Supreme Court to pause the ruling.

The trial date carries enormous political ramifications, with special counsel Jack Smith's team hoping to prosecute Trump this year and the Republican primary front-runner seeking to delay it until after the November election.

If Trump were to defeat President Joe Biden, he could presumably try to use his position as head of the executive branch to order a new attorney general to dismiss the federal cases or he potentially could seek a pardon for himself.

“Presidential immunity against federal indictment would mean that, as to the President, the Congress could not legislate, the Executive could not prosecute and the Judiciary could not review,”the judges wrote.

“We cannot accept that the office of the Presidency places its former occupants above the law for all time thereafter.”

Judges also sharply rejected Trump’s claim that “a President has unbounded authority to commit crimes that would neutralise the most fundamental check on executive power - the recognition and implementation of election results”.

“Nor can we sanction his apparent contention that the Executive has carte blanche to violate the rights of individual citizens to vote and to have their votes count,” they wrote.

The Supreme Court has held that presidents are immune from civil liability for official acts, and Trump’s lawyers have for months argued that such protection should be extended to criminal prosecution as well.

They said the actions Trump was accused of in his failed bid to cling to power after he lost the 2020 election to Biden, including badgering his vice president to refuse to certify the results of the election, all fell within the “outer perimeters” of a president’s official acts.

But Smith’s team has said that no such immunity exists in the US Constitution or in prior cases and that, in any event, Trump’s actions were not part of his official duties.

US District Judge Tanya Chutkan, who is presiding over the case, rejected Trump’s arguments in a December 1 opinion that said the office of the president “does not confer a lifelong ‘get-out-of-jail-free’ pass”.

The case in Washington is one of four criminal prosecutions Trump faces as he seeks to reclaim the White House this year.

He faces federal charges in Florida that he illegally retained classified documents at his Mar-a-Lago estate, a case that was also brought by Smith and is set for trial in May.

He is also charged in state court in Georgia with scheming to subvert that state’s 2020 election and in New York in connection with hush money payments made to porn actor Stormy Daniels.

He has denied any wrongdoing.

[bilateralrope]

Judge fines Donald Trump more than $350 million, bars him from running businesses in N.Y. for three years

The state AG’s office said that when factoring in pre-judgment interest, the amount exceeds $450 million. Trump said on Friday night that he would appeal.

Feb. 17, 2024, 9:05 AM NZDT / Updated Feb. 17, 2024, 1:09 PM NZDT
By Adam Reiss and Dareh Gregorian

The judge who presided over a civil business fraud trial against Donald Trump on Friday ordered the former president, his sons, business associates and company to pay more than $350 million in damages and temporarily limited their ability to do business in New York.

Judge Arthur Engoron ordered the former president and the Trump Organization to pay over $354 million in damages, and barred Trump “from serving as an officer or director of any New York corporation or other legal entity in New York for a period of three years,” including his namesake company.

New York Attorney General Letitia James, who’s office brought the case, said that with pre-judgment interest, the judgment totals over $450 million, an amount “which will continue to increase every single day” until the judgment is paid.

“Donald Trump is finally facing accountability for his lying, cheating, and staggering fraud. Because no matter how big, rich, or powerful you think you are, no one is above the law,” James said in a statement, calling the ruling “a tremendous victory for this state, this nation, and for everyone who believes that we all must play by the same rules — even former presidents.”

The ruling also bars Trump and his company from applying for any bank loans for three years.

In his first public remarks after the ruling, Trump said, “We’ll appeal and we’ll be successful.”

Speaking to reporters at Mar-a-Lago on Friday night, Trump bashed the ruling as “a fine of 350 million for a doing a perfect job.” He also repeated previous attacks by calling the judge “crooked” and the attorney general “corrupt.”

Trump did not take any questions from reporters after speaking for about six minutes.

The judge’s decision is a potential blow to both Trump’s finances and persona — having built his brand on being a successful businessman that he leveraged in his first run for president. Trump is currently running for the White House for a third time. This case is just one of many he is currently facing, including four separate pending criminal trials, the first of which is scheduled to begin on March 25.

Engoron also ordered the continued “appointment of an Independent Monitor” and the “the installation of an Independent Director of Compliance” for the company.

In posts on his social media platform Truth Social, Trump called the ruling “an illegal, unAmerican judgment against me, my family, and my tremendous business.”

“This ‘decision’ is a complete and total sham,” he wrote.

During the trial, Trump and executives at his company, including his sons Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump, attempted to blame exaggerated financial statements that were the heart of New York Attorney General Letitia James’ fraud case on the accountants who compiled them. Engoron disagreed.

“There is overwhelming evidence from both interested and non-interested witnesses, corroborated by documentary evidence, that the buck for being truthful in the supporting data valuations stopped with the Trump Organization, not the accountants,” he wrote.

No remorse

In explaining the need for a monitor, the judge cited the lack of remorse by Trump and his executives after the fraud was discovered.

“Their complete lack of contrition and remorse borders on pathological. They are accused only of inflating asset values to make more money. The documents prove this over and over again. This is a venial sin, not a mortal sin. Defendants did not commit murder or arson. They did not rob a bank at gunpoint. Donald Trump is not Bernard Madoff. Yet, defendants are incapable of admitting the error of their ways,” Engoron wrote.

“Defendants’ refusal to admit error — indeed, to continue it, according to the Independent Monitor — constrains this Court to conclude that they will engage in it going forward unless judicially restrained,” he added.

The ruling also bars the Trump sons — who’ve been running the company since their father went to the White House — “from serving as an officer or director of any New York corporation or other legal entity in New York for a period of two years.” Both were fined over $4 million, plus interest, for their roles in the scheme.

Donald Trump Jr. posted on the social media site X that “We’ve reached the point where your political beliefs combined with what venue your case is heard are the primary determinants of the outcome; not the facts of the case! It’s truly sad what’s happened to our country.”

In a statement, Eric Trump called the judge “a cruel man.”

“He knows that every single witness testified to that fact that I had absolutely NOTHING to do with this case (as INSANE as the case truly is),” Eric Trump said.

He also attacked the ruling as “political vengeance by a judge out to get my father.”

Trump attorney Alina Habba called the verdict “a manifest injustice — plain and simple.”

“Given the grave stakes, we trust that the Appellate Division will overturn this egregious verdict and end this relentless persecution against my clients,” she said in a statement.

A spokesperson for Trump Organization called the ruling “a gross miscarriage of justice. The Trump Organization has never missed any loan payment or been in default on any loan.”

High legal costs

An appeal in the case would likely take years, but Trump could have to post a bond for the full amount if he does so.

The judgment is the second this year against Trump after he was hit last month with an $83.3 million verdict in writer E. Jean Carroll’s defamation case against him. Trump has said he plans to appeal that verdict as well, but would have to post a bond for that amount as well.

James had been seeking $370 million from Trump, his company and its top executives, alleging “repeated and persistent fraud” that included falsifying business records and financial statements. James had argued those financial statements were at times exaggerated by as much as $2.2 billion.

James contended the defendants used the inflated financial statements to obtain bank loans and insurance policies at rates he otherwise wouldn’t have been entitled to and “reaped hundreds of millions of dollars in ill-gotten gains.”

Trump had maintained his financial statements were conservative, and has called the AG’s allegations politically motivated and a “fraud on me.”

“This is a case that should have never been brought, and I think we should be entitled to damages,” Trump told reporters when he attended closing arguments in the case on Jan. 11.

Trump testimony knocked

The monthslong civil trial included testimony from Trump and his oldest children. The former president was combative in his day on the stand, blasting James as a “hack” and calling the judge “extremely hostile.”

Trump repeatedly complained about Engoron before and throughout the trial, and the judge slapped him with a partial gag order after he started blasting the judge’s law clerk as well. Trump’s complaints led to a flood of death threats against the clerk, as well as Engoron, court officials said, and Trump was fined $15,000 for twice violating the order.

Among the examples cited as fraud by the attorney general’s office during the trial was Trump valuing his triplex home in Trump Tower in New York City at three times its actual size and value, as well as including a brand value to increase the valuation of his golf courses on the financial statements, which explicitly said brand values were not included.

Another example pointed to by the attorney general clearly got under his skin — a dispute over the value of Mar-a-Lago, his social club and residence in Florida. Trump’s financial statements from 2011 to 2021 valued Mar-a-Lago at $426 million to $612 million, while the Palm Beach County assessor appraised the property’s market value to be $18 million to $27 million during the same time frame. Trump had also fraudulently puffed up the value of the property by saying it was a private residence, despite having signed an agreement that it could only be used as a social club to lower his tax burden.

Trump maintained during the trial the property was worth much, much more.

“The judge had it at $18 million, and it is worth, say, I say from 50 to 100 times more than that. So I don’t know how you got those numbers,” Trump testified, adding later that he thinks it’s actually worth “between a billion and a billion five.”

In his ruling Friday, Engoron said he didn’t find Trump to be a credible witness.

“Overall, Donald Trump rarely responded to the questions asked, and he frequently interjected long, irrelevant speeches on issues far beyond the scope of the trial. His refusal to answer the questions directly, or in some cases, at all, severely compromised his credibility,” the judge wrote.

Michael Cohen testimony ‘credible’

James’ investigation into the former president’s business began in 2019 as a result of congressional testimony from his former personal lawyer Michael Cohen, who told the House Oversight Committee that Trump would improperly expand and shrink values to fit whatever his business needs were.

Cohen testified during the trial about his role in the scheme, and said while Trump didn’t explicitly tell him and then-Chief Financial Officer Allen Weisselberg to inflate the numbers in the financial statement, he was like a “mob boss” who tells you what he wants without directly telling you.

Trump claimed Cohen’s testimony exonerated him while also painting him as an untrustworthy liar because he admitted having previously lied under oath.

In his ruling, Engoron called Cohen an “important witness” and said he found his testimony “credible.” “This factfinder does not believe that pleading guilty to perjury means that you can never tell the truth. Michael Cohen told the truth,” the judge wrote.

Former CFO ‘evasive’

Engoron was less forgiving about former Trump CFO Weisselberg, who previously pleaded guilty to carrying out tax fraud at the company.

Weisselberg’s “testimony in this trial was intentionally evasive, with large gaps of ‘I don’t remember.’”

“There is overwhelming evidence that Allen Weisselberg intentionally falsified hundreds of business records during his tenure” at the company, the judge wrote. “Weisselberg understood that his assignment from Donald Trump was to have his reported assets increase every year irrespective of their actual values. The examples of Weisselberg’s intent to falsify business records are too numerous to itemize,” he added.

The judge permanently barred Weisselberg “from serving in the financial control function of any New York corporation or similar business entity operating in New York State,” and ordered him to pay the $1 million he’s already received from his $2 million separation agreement from the company as “ill-gotten gains.”

AG initially sought less

James filed her suit seeking $250 million in damages from Trump in 2022, and the judge appointed a monitor to oversee the company’s finances that November.

In a summary judgment ruling the week before the trial started, Engoron found Trump and his executives had repeatedly engaged in fraud. The “documents here clearly contain fraudulent valuations that defendants used in business, satisfying [the attorney general’s] burden to establish liability as a matter of law against defendants,” the judge wrote, while denying Trump’s bid to dismiss the case.

Engoron summarized the Trump defense as “the documents do not say what they say; that there is no such thing as ‘objective’ value; and that, essentially, the Court should not believe its own eyes.”

The order, which Trump appealed, held that Trump’s business certificates in New York should be canceled, which could have wreaked havoc on Trump’s company and forced the sell-off of some assets.

Engoron backed off of that decision in his ruling Friday, saying the addition of the “two-tiered oversight” of the monitor and the compliance director makes that move “no longer necessary.”

Trump had complained about the summary judgment ruling while he was on the witness stand. “He said I was a fraud before he knew anything about me, nothing about me,” Trump said. “It’s a terrible thing you did.”

I wonder how long before Trump violates the ban against running a NY corporation.

[Solauren]

The Ban? Less then a year if he doesn't win the White house again.

The real question is - how long will the Justice system wait for them to pay the fines, and start seizing assets?

And then hopefully selling those assets at pennies on the dollar, and keep seizing them until they've paid the fine off in full with the proceeds of the penny-on-the-dollar sales?

[EnterpriseSovereign]

What does Trump have to do to finally be held in contempt of court?

[bilateralrope]

What does Trump have to do to finally be held in contempt of court?

So far he seems to know exactly where the line is before he gets into trouble.

[Solauren]

What does Trump have to do to finally be held in contempt of court?

So far he seems to know exactly where the line is before he gets into trouble.

That is a possibility.

But, it could also be the judges are giving him extra 'leeway', and a later judge is going to hold him to a higher standard, and nail him for multiple contempts of court.

Say, during his criminal trials.

[Lord Revan]

What does Trump have to do to finally be held in contempt of court?

So far he seems to know exactly where the line is before he gets into trouble.

That is a possibility.

But, it could also be the judges are giving him extra 'leeway', and a later judge is going to hold him to a higher standard, and nail him for multiple contempts of court.

Say, during his criminal trials.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if they're giving Trump rope to hang himself (metaphorically speaking) by going easy at first Trump seems like the person who wouldn't get "we're using higher standards for behavior now" means they're using higher standards and would put his foot in his mouth (again metaphorically).

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Nancy Pelosi urges ‘grotesque’ Donald Trump to have intervention

Nancy Pelosi believes Donald Trump needs an “intervention” - and has described the former US president as “grotesque”.

The veteran Democrat added that there is “no use” in talking to Mr Trump “because he is just in a world of his own”.

“Have an intervention into your mental health, your political viability,” Ms Pelosi said of her political rival.

“He is really grotesque, and it is really a shame... He has ventured into the global scene by his chumminess with [Vladimir] Putin.”

[bilateralrope]

Trump has been unable to get bond for $464 million judgment, his lawyers say

In a filing to an appeals court, Trump's attorneys said getting the bond needed to halt proceedings while they appeal is a "practical impossibility."

March 19, 2024, 3:32 AM NZDT / Updated March 19, 2024, 8:00 AM NZDT
By Adam Reiss and Dareh Gregorian

Former President Donald Trump has not been able to get a bond to secure the $464 million civil fraud judgment against him and his co-defendants, his lawyers said in a court filing Monday.

Trump and his company need to post a bond for the full amount by next week in order to stop New York Attorney General Letitia James from being able to collect while he appeals. They've asked an appeals court to step in in the meantime and said Monday that they have not had any success getting a bond.

"Defendants’ ongoing diligent efforts have proven that a bond in the judgment’s full amount is 'a practical impossibility,'" the filing said. "These diligent efforts have included approaching about 30 surety companies through 4 separate brokers."

Their efforts, including “countless hours negotiating with one of the largest insurance companies in the world,” have proven that “obtaining an appeal bond in the full amount” of the judgment “is not possible under the circumstances presented,” the filing said.

The other bond companies will not “accept hard assets such as real estate as collateral,” but “will only accept cash or cash equivalents (such as marketable securities),” the filing said. The lawyers also noted those companies typically “require collateral of approximately 120% of the amount of the judgment” — which would total about $557 million.

"In addition, sureties would likely charge bond premiums of approximately 2 percent per year with two years in advance—an upfront cost over $18 million," the filing said. That $18 million would not be recoverable even if Trump wins his appeal.

In all, the filing said, the "actual amount of cash or cash equivalents required 'to collateralize the bond and have sufficient capital to run the business and satisfy its other obligations' approach[es] $1 billion."

While the filing says Trump can't afford the bond, it also argues that the attorney general doesn't have to worry about being able to collect her judgment.

"Defendants’ real estate holdings — including iconic properties like 40 Wall Street, Doral Miami, and Mar-a-Lago, — greatly exceed the amount of the judgment. Such assets are impossible to secrete or dispose of surreptitiously, leaving the plaintiff effectively secured during the pendency of an appeal," the filing said.

Trump's team also argued the $464 million penalty is "grossly disproportional" and cited the argument they made throughout the monthslong trial that "there are no victims, as there were no damages and no financial losses."

In a filing last month, Trump's lawyers asked that the bond amount be reduced to $100 million, but Monday's filing argues he shouldn't have to put up any bond at all.

James' office has argued that Trump should put up the full amount.

A 30-day automatic stay of the judgment handed down by Judge Arthur Engoron is set to expire March 25, at which point James would be clear to start seizing Trump's assets unless the appeals court steps in.

James would not need an additional court order to start collecting in New York, where Trump has his company and a large number of real estate assets, but those efforts could be complicated by any mortgages or debts he has on those properties. It’s unclear what properties or assets James might look to seize.

Steven Cheung, a spokesman for Trump's campaign, said in a statement that the judgment is "unjust, unconstitutional" and "un-American."

"A bond of this size would be an abuse of the law," he said.

Trump asked that if the state Appellate Division denies his request, the judges enter a temporary stay so he can try to make his case to the state's highest court, the Court of Appeals.

Engoron handed down his judgment last month after finding Trump and his company had repeatedly committed fraud by over-inflating personal financial statements that he used to secure bank loans and insurance policies. James' office said there were years where Trump's assets were overvalued by more than $2 billion.

Trump maintained he did nothing wrong, and testified that, if anything, his properties were undervalued.

The judge hit Trump and his co-defendants with a judgment saying they had to pay over $350 million — an amount that ballooned to $464 million with pre-judgment interest. Of that amount on the date the judgment was entered, the vast majority, or about $454 million, was against Trump and his companies.

That amount has grown since — the judgment against Trump will increase at a daily rate of nearly $112,000 until it’s paid off due to interest on the penalty, according to the attorney general’s office.

The filing Monday seeking to freeze the entire $464 million was filed on behalf of Trump and his co-defendants, including his sons Don Jr. and Eric, who've been running the Trump Organization since their father first went to the White House.

In a separate case in New York federal court, Trump last week posted a $91 million bond to secure writer E. Jean Carroll's $83 million defamation judgment against him while he appeals that verdict as well.

Looks like playing games with the valuation of real estate makes loan companies very hesitant to take that real estate as collateral. After all, all they know about its value is that Trump lied about it.

On Monday, the seizing of Trump's assets should begin.

[Rogue 9]

Judge Cannon considers jury instructions requiring a not guilty verdict.

Cannon tells lawyers to weigh if Trump conduct can’t be reviewed by courts
In classified documents case, legal arguments over jury instructions seem to take precedence over numerous other pretrial issues
By Devlin Barrett
March 18, 2024 at 9:07 p.m. EDT

The judge overseeing Donald Trump’s classified-documents case issued an unusual order late Monday regarding jury instructions at the end of the trial — even though she has not yet ruled on when the trial will be held, or a host of other issues.

U.S. District Court Judge Aileen M. Cannon instructed lawyers to file proposed jury instructions by April 2 on two topics that are related to defense motions to have the indictment dismissed outright.

Cannon, a relatively inexperienced judge who was nominated by Trump and has been on the bench since late 2020, listened to arguments about the two defense motions last week.

In that hearing, she sounded skeptical that Trump’s attack on the Espionage Act, or his embrace of the Presidential Records Act, were strong enough to save the former president and likely 2024 Republican White House nominee from a criminal trial. At the same time, she suggested that aspects of Trump’s arguments might be valid enough to come into play during jury instructions.

Juries are instructed on how to weigh the evidence just before they begin deliberating, so Cannon’s focus on this topic suggests she is not only thinking ahead to a trial of the former president, but already zeroing in on the end, rather than the beginning, of such a proceeding.

Her two-page order, however, also suggests an openness to some of the defense’s claims that the Presidential Records Act allows Trump or other presidents to declare highly classified documents to be their own personal property. National security law experts say that is not what the law says, or how it has been interpreted over decades by the courts, particularly given the other laws that govern national security secrets.

Cannon asked the prosecutors and defense attorneys to consider two different hypothetical situations, writing: “the parties must engage with the following competing scenarios and offer alternative draft text that assumes each scenario to be a correct formulation of the law.”

In the first scenario, Cannon said, the jury would be allowed to review a former president’s possession of a record and make a factual finding whether “it is personal or presidential using the definitions set forth in the Presidential Records Act,” also known as the PRA.

Confusingly, she added in a footnote that any “separation of powers or immunity concerns shall be included in this discussion if relevant.” Immunity is a topic for judges to decide, not juries, so it was not immediately clear what that language in Cannon’s order meant.

The second scenario Cannon describes is one in which a president “has sole authority under the PRA to categorize records as personal or presidential during his/her presidency. Neither a court nor a jury is permitted to make or review such a categorization decision.”

That second hypothetical would appear to be one in which Trump seemingly could not be convicted under almost any set of facts of improperly possessing classified documents. It was not immediately clear how Cannon envisions a trial potentially based on that premise.

After the hearing last week, Cannon issued a short order saying that while some of Trump’s arguments about the Espionage Act warrant “serious consideration,” she thought it was too early to dismiss charges based on disagreements over the definition of some terms in the World War I-era law.

At the same time, she suggested Trump could raise the issue later “in connection with jury-instruction briefing and/or other appropriate motions,” an invitation that appears to have led to Monday’s order. Trump had argued in his motion that the Espionage Act, which has been used for decades to convict others of improperly possessing classified documents, was too vaguely worded to be used in his indictment.

Cannon sounded especially doubtful at the hearing of Trump’s other defense claim: that the Presidential Records Act means he could simply declare highly classified documents to be his personal property and keep them at Mar-a-Lago, his Florida home and private club.

The 1978 Presidential Records Act was passed after President Richard M. Nixon sought to destroy White House tapes during the Watergate scandal. It says presidential records belong to the public and are to be turned over to the National Archives and Records Administration at the end of a presidency.

Trump’s Florida case is the first of its kind: a former president charged with dozens of counts of violating national security laws by allegedly stashing classified documents at his home after he left the White House, and then obstructing government efforts to retrieve them.

It is one of four criminal trials Trump is facing, and his lawyers have fought to try to delay them all until after the election. Cannon originally scheduled the Florida trial to begin the week of May 20, but she has made clear more time is needed to sort through pretrial issues having to do with using classified documents as evidence. She held a hearing to discuss a new trial date on March 1 but has not yet ruled.

Trump and his Florida co-defendants also have filed a number of other motions seeking to dismiss the case, including a claim by Trump that he is the target of a vindictive, politically motivated prosecution.

While those motions were not the topic of Cannon’s hearing on Thursday, Trump’s lawyers referred several times during their arguments to other public officials who were not charged after classified documents were found at their homes — including the recent decision by special counsel Robert K. Hur not to charge President Biden.

Those cases, the lawyers argued, show the charges against their client were unjustified and politically motivated.

During the hearing, Cannon questioned several times how prosecutors distinguish Trump’s conduct from that of other former officials. She could schedule additional motion hearings at any time.

[Khaat]

Hasn't she shit this bed enough to take it to the Appellate?
It's bad enough her last thing was telling the Defense to ask for a dismissal -after the jury is selected- to trigger double-jeopardy so he can never be prosecuted by a real court when she pulls out the pre-executed dismissal paperwork!

[Crazedwraith]

Are we using this for all Trump trials?

He's been found guilty of all 34 charges in the Hush Money trial

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Damn, I just posted a thread about this. I think it should be merged into this one.

[Gandalf]

I put it in the election one.

[Crazedwraith]

The appalling thing is it will probably have very little effect on the election.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

I put it in the election one.

I almost did that myself

[3-Body Problem]

Now come as many appeals as his legal team can find grounds for.

[bilateralrope]

Now come as many appeals as his legal team can find grounds for.

Their appeal filing will be interesting. Especially if Trump demands that they include bits that stand no chance.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Hopefully he receives jail time.

[3-Body Problem]

Now come as many appeals as his legal team can find grounds for.

Their appeal filing will be interesting. Especially if Trump demands that they include bits that stand no chance.

It'll be interesting to see what grounds he'll file on and how much his legal team can keep him muzzled between now and then.

[Solauren]

At this point, I think his legal team is both asking for payment in advance, and hoping to just milk him for all the $ they can.

[Zor]

Equality before the law, liberty within the law, nobody above the law.

That, in brief, is what the Rule of Law means. A lofty idea that we often fall short of, but still one we should and must strive for lest "Justice" become nothing more than a stamp of legitimization for the rich and powerful's whims. Trump getting convicted shows that in spite of neglect and despite wilful sabotage the machinery of society can still bloody work.

Zor

[The Infidel]

Can a convicted criminal run for president?