Reversing the slow decline of SD.NET

[Steve]

Honestly, I just pop in out of habit. But without preexisting content with which I want to engage, I have no reason to post.

Find some core interest that draws people here. Merely letting them come back isn't enough. You need to give them a reason to want to return.

Bingo. We need to understand why SD.net was good and what kept the good folks coming back. Back in the old days, we had a lot of highly intelligent and opinionated members from all kinds of different backgrounds, and this was a place where we could have in depth discussions on all sorts of different subjects along with the requisite flame wars, this was totally fine as long as we followed the (un)written rules. We also had free reign to flame the dumbasses to a crisp and eat them with BBQ sauce, and it was fucking hilarious. The quality of discourse was kept high because all the trolls and morons were ruthlessly abused until they left or got banned, this was appealing for many intelligent folks because it means we can actually discuss things without getting drowned in a sea of bullshit.

SD.net ain't like that anymore, not even close. What made it unique and worth participating in is long gone, it's really no different from any other forum on the 'net, and on top of that it's pretty much dead with only a handful of posts a week. I could go to a karate forum or something and have more interesting discussions than the ones taking place here, what reason is there for sticking around?

Interesting, because I'd argue Wong's "Mockery of Stupid People" is what doomed the community compared to, say, Spacebattles, which still thrives in this era of reddit, Discord, and Facebook. Your "flame the dumbasses to a crisp" approach created an intellectually and emotionally toxic environment where lack of conformity was subjected to emotional abuse that only the most committed (or obsessed) would bother enduring, so they disengaged, and over time this disengagmenet eventually led to no new blood and thus the slow decline of the forum.

This was made worse by the fact that being "intelligent" isn't the same as being right about every topic, so on subjects where objective facts were less available or not as relevant, the attitude of "mock those who disagree with me as that disagreement means they're stupid" undermined actual intercourse as people found new, more exciting ways to call their opponents crude names and titles.

[Ralin]

Interesting, because I'd argue Wong's "Mockery of Stupid People" is what doomed the community compared to, say, Spacebattles, which still thrives in this era of reddit, Discord, and Facebook. Your "flame the dumbasses to a crisp" approach created an intellectually and emotionally toxic environment where lack of conformity was subjected to emotional abuse that only the most committed (or obsessed) would bother enduring, so they disengaged, and over time this disengagmenet eventually led to no new blood and thus the slow decline of the forum.

This was made worse by the fact that being "intelligent" isn't the same as being right about every topic, so on subjects where objective facts were less available or not as relevant, the attitude of "mock those who disagree with me as that disagreement means they're stupid" undermined actual intercourse as people found new, more exciting ways to call their opponents crude names and titles.

And let's not kid ourselves, banning for trolling and dishonesty (or bigotry for that matter) has never been fairly or consistently enforced. Someone wanna share what Shep did to get kicked from the Discord server and whether it was significantly different from how he acts on the forums?

[bilateralrope]

Open up some calls for n00bs on some relevant subreddits mayhaps? Ya need fresh blood.

What should we tell them to make them want to give SD.net a try ?

Especially with the added friction of them having to make a new account here.

Interesting, because I'd argue Wong's "Mockery of Stupid People" is what doomed the community compared to, say, Spacebattles, which still thrives in this era of reddit, Discord, and Facebook. Your "flame the dumbasses to a crisp" approach created an intellectually and emotionally toxic environment where lack of conformity was subjected to emotional abuse that only the most committed (or obsessed) would bother enduring, so they disengaged, and over time this disengagmenet eventually led to no new blood and thus the slow decline of the forum.

This was made worse by the fact that being "intelligent" isn't the same as being right about every topic, so on subjects where objective facts were less available or not as relevant, the attitude of "mock those who disagree with me as that disagreement means they're stupid" undermined actual intercourse as people found new, more exciting ways to call their opponents crude names and titles.

I agree. SD.Net relied on having people who disagreed with the majority, while simultaneously driving away all but the most obsessed. But even the obsessed wouldn't stay, because they would eventually do something that would get them banned. Without them, many of the core members lost interest and also left.

So long as we're given a few weeks (or a few months) warning off closure, so I can download the threads I'd want to keep (mostly from the Fanfiction area, odd other one), I can live with that.

I'd be starting that archiving as soon as you're sure the mods won't object. My worry is that the final shutdown of SD.net will be when we have another sudden problem that takes the forum down, but Mike never fixes it.

[Zwinmar]

Never posted much because it always devolved into :

Followed by a point then the same repeated ad nauseum broken up like you were trying to talk to religious nut quoting their holy book line by line.
I have never had a desire to get into that and refuse to spend hours trying.

I first got involved when doing research for a star wars roleplay and stuck around so didn't care much for other things, especially being told that I was wrong about things I actually experienced and witnessed first hand. So, I mainly lurked, was a touchstone in a way for me even if I think some of the people who posted were absolutely insane. Then at some point it became mainly news and politics and well, meh.

[Gandalf]

Bingo. We need to understand why SD.net was good and what kept the good folks coming back. Back in the old days, we had a lot of highly intelligent and opinionated members from all kinds of different backgrounds, and this was a place where we could have in depth discussions on all sorts of different subjects along with the requisite flame wars, this was totally fine as long as we followed the (un)written rules. We also had free reign to flame the dumbasses to a crisp and eat them with BBQ sauce, and it was fucking hilarious. The quality of discourse was kept high because all the trolls and morons were ruthlessly abused until they left or got banned, this was appealing for many intelligent folks because it means we can actually discuss things without getting drowned in a sea of bullshit.

SD.net ain't like that anymore, not even close. What made it unique and worth participating in is long gone, it's really no different from any other forum on the 'net, and on top of that it's pretty much dead with only a handful of posts a week. I could go to a karate forum or something and have more interesting discussions than the ones taking place here, what reason is there for sticking around?

I don't think SDN classic edition was about intelligent or not, but rather being in or not. There was an in crowd who skated on shit that would have got others flamed back to the stone age, or sometimes banned.

[Broomstick]

I don't see any purpose in bringing back perma-banned people.

Probably half the time I'm here I'm revisiting old threads I enjoyed rather than participating in current conversations.

I, too, would like to archive some threads I particularly liked. A notice of a couple months prior to permanent shut down would be my preference.

How to revitalize this place? I don't know - this format is just not as popular as it used to be. I'm involved in two other forums with a 20+ year history. Both are doing better than here, but neither is what it once was. A lot of people move on with their lives and get involved in other/newer things.

I would like this message board to endure. I do not, however, have any answers on how to do that.

[Rogue 9]

Interesting, because I'd argue Wong's "Mockery of Stupid People" is what doomed the community compared to, say, Spacebattles, which still thrives in this era of reddit, Discord, and Facebook. Your "flame the dumbasses to a crisp" approach created an intellectually and emotionally toxic environment where lack of conformity was subjected to emotional abuse that only the most committed (or obsessed) would bother enduring, so they disengaged, and over time this disengagmenet eventually led to no new blood and thus the slow decline of the forum.

This was made worse by the fact that being "intelligent" isn't the same as being right about every topic, so on subjects where objective facts were less available or not as relevant, the attitude of "mock those who disagree with me as that disagreement means they're stupid" undermined actual intercourse as people found new, more exciting ways to call their opponents crude names and titles.

And let's not kid ourselves, banning for trolling and dishonesty (or bigotry for that matter) has never been fairly or consistently enforced. Someone wanna share what Shep did to get kicked from the Discord server and whether it was significantly different from how he acts on the forums?

Hilariously, nothing; he was banned on sight because a large portion of the server population said it was him or them.

[Solauren]

Interesting, because I'd argue Wong's "Mockery of Stupid People" is what doomed the community compared to, say, Spacebattles, which still thrives in this era of reddit, Discord, and Facebook. Your "flame the dumbasses to a crisp" approach created an intellectually and emotionally toxic environment where lack of conformity was subjected to emotional abuse that only the most committed (or obsessed) would bother enduring, so they disengaged, and over time this disengagmenet eventually led to no new blood and thus the slow decline of the forum.

This was made worse by the fact that being "intelligent" isn't the same as being right about every topic, so on subjects where objective facts were less available or not as relevant, the attitude of "mock those who disagree with me as that disagreement means they're stupid" undermined actual intercourse as people found new, more exciting ways to call their opponents crude names and titles.

And let's not kid ourselves, banning for trolling and dishonesty (or bigotry for that matter) has never been fairly or consistently enforced. Someone wanna share what Shep did to get kicked from the Discord server and whether it was significantly different from how he acts on the forums?

Hilariously, nothing; he was banned on sight because a large portion of the server population said it was him or them.

Makes me wonder how many people were at one time active on here, that drove people off.

[Ralin]

Hilariously, nothing; he was banned on sight because a large portion of the server population said it was him or them.

Well that's not what I was going for but suppose it gets the point across just the same!

[EnterpriseSovereign]

The idea of temp bans longer than a month seem pointless to me, it's not as though people are going to come back once a year-long ban has expired, or even a 3 month one come to that.

There's one or two usernames I recognise in the Discord that I know for a fact were banned here years ago, Mr Coffee being one.

[Col. Crackpot]

Like i started to say on the discord server, this is and has been a country club for nerds. Piss off the social committee director or the golf pro and your ass gets the boot. Same here. Did people deserve to be banned? Yes. Was the banhammer deployed like... Shep in charge of an Ohio class boomer just because someone was an asshole one day? Also yes. Was that *always* a bad thing? ehhhhh..... Sometimes you need to maintain the... je ne sais quoi. I should have been banned half a dozen times for being a cunt. I'm still here. Shep is still here... Elfdart's a fucking moderator.

I'm all for some leniency on the ban hammer. So yea from me on short term bans for being a dick. that's a good idea and God knows i benefited from leniency. Nay on 3+ month bans. More eloquent members hit that on the head already. But un banning people? What... are we going to go find Axis Kast and say hey that Baghdad tiger thing was a hoot, wanna come back? or.. What's Poe up to these days? We just gonna forget that had mock show trials in a virtual coliseum like the sociopaths we all were? Are they?

Sure i'd love nothing less then to catch lightning in a bottle again. This place was fun. So were my 20s but i'm still a grumpy 47 year old fat guy now.

anyway i like a lot of you so come check out the discord server if you don't already. We have gifs! Can you imagine if we had gifs on this shit in 2003? I really would have been banned.

[General Zod]

Oh hey, this place is still around. I haven't posted here in over a decade because frankly I hate debating anything now and it's not fun anymore. Anyway feel free to ban me or whatever, I know some of you still enjoy that I guess. I won't be back again.

[Ralin]

Oh hey, this place is still around. I haven't posted here in over a decade

Your last post was in 2017.

[General Zod]

Oh hey, this place is still around. I haven't posted here in over a decade

Your last post was in 2017.

Oh what the fuck ever. You want to know why nobody's coming around here anymore? It's this smug newatheist bullshit. Not a single one of you fuckers has grown out of your stupid "debate me bro" attitude and you've made being technically correct your whole personality. Eat shit.

[Ralin]

Man. Some people just can't stand being wrong about the smallest thing.

It's this smug newatheist bullshit. Not a single one of you fuckers has grown out of your stupid "debate me bro" attitude and you've made being technically correct your whole personality. Eat shit.

I just thought it was funny.

[General Zod]

Man. Some people just can't stand being wrong about the smallest thing.

It's this smug newatheist bullshit. Not a single one of you fuckers has grown out of your stupid "debate me bro" attitude and you've made being technically correct your whole personality. Eat shit.

I just thought it was funny.

Shove it up your ass.

[Ralin]

I know I should drop this tangent but I'm legit amused at the out of nowhere tantrum from someone going on about what emotionally stunted man babies we all are.

[bilateralrope]

Oh hey, this place is still around. I haven't posted here in over a decade

Your last post was in 2017.

Oh what the fuck ever. You want to know why nobody's coming around here anymore? It's this smug newatheist bullshit. Not a single one of you fuckers has grown out of your stupid "debate me bro" attitude and you've made being technically correct your whole personality. Eat shit.

8 hours between a "I won't be back" post and you coming back for another post.

It's always amusing when the gap is that short.

[Ralin]

8 hours between a "I won't be back" post and you coming back for another post.

It's always amusing when the gap is that short.

To paraphrase Mike from many years back, yes it's a pointless and kinda silly argument that doesn't relate to much of anything that matters in real life. And you took the time to read and comment on it so stop pretending you're any better than the rest of us.

[General Zod]

Your last post was in 2017.

Oh what the fuck ever. You want to know why nobody's coming around here anymore? It's this smug newatheist bullshit. Not a single one of you fuckers has grown out of your stupid "debate me bro" attitude and you've made being technically correct your whole personality. Eat shit.

8 hours between a "I won't be back" post and you coming back for another post.

It's always amusing when the gap is that short.

Well simpletons are easily amused. Hey, let me know when you're up for something more advanced like peekaboo. Maybe we can eventually graduate to pickup sticks.

[Col. Crackpot]

A flaming temper tantrum over the perceived immaturity of others. In a thread about how to make this a more welcoming place, no less. If that’s not the perfect encapsulation of 20 years here I don’t know what is.

[General Zod]

A flaming temper tantrum over the perceived immaturity of others. In a thread about how to make this a more welcoming place, no less. If that’s not the perfect encapsulation of 20 years here I don’t know what is.

Not a single one of you possess the self awareness to realize you are why this place sucks. Why should anyone come back if you're not going to listen to people who tell you why it's awful to be here?

[Ralin]

Well simpletons are easily amused. Hey, let me know when you're up for something more advanced like peekaboo. Maybe we can eventually graduate to pickup sticks.

I'm imagining the Count from Sesame Street going "One, two, three, four! Four posts since you said you weren't coming back!"

Not a single one of you possess the self awareness to realize you are why this place sucks. Why should anyone come back if you're not going to listen to people who tell you why it's awful to be here?

Says the man who is bound and determined to show off how much cooler he is than all us fatty nerds because he totally doesn't give a shit.

[General Zod]

Well simpletons are easily amused. Hey, let me know when you're up for something more advanced like peekaboo. Maybe we can eventually graduate to pickup sticks.

I'm imagining the Count from Sesame Street going "One, two, three, four! Four posts since you said you weren't coming back!"

Not a single one of you possess the self awareness to realize you are why this place sucks. Why should anyone come back if you're not going to listen to people who tell you why it's awful to be here?

Says the man who is bound and determined to show off how much cooler he is than all us fatty nerds because he totally doesn't give a shit.

I was trying to be reasonable, but you couldn't resist getting a fucking dunk in. Never thought I'd say this but Broomstick is right.

[Col. Crackpot]

A flaming temper tantrum over the perceived immaturity of others. In a thread about how to make this a more welcoming place, no less. If that’s not the perfect encapsulation of 20 years here I don’t know what is.

Not a single one of you possess the self awareness to realize you are why this place sucks. Why should anyone come back if you're not going to listen to people who tell you why it's awful to be here?

My brother in Christ… you are clearly engaging in, and therefore I can only assume enjoying the dramatic play going on.