Israel orders mass 'evacuation' from Northern Gaza, humanitarian crisis certain to ensue

[bilateralrope]

So worst case scenario they're about equal so far. And the ceasefire will give the Palestinians at least a little relief.

I don't remember Biden openly calling for Gaza to be depopulated. Could you point me to where he said that ?

Nah he just gave unlimited aid and support to the people who wanted to. Also that aid Trump didn't cancel? Who do you think went out of his way to send it? Including two packages sent after the election when Biden didn't have to worry about politics anymore.

White House makes 2,000-pound bombs available to Israel, undoing Biden’s pause

Published Sat, Jan 25 20252:35 PM EST

President Donald Trump’s White House has instructed the U.S. military to release a hold imposed by the Biden administration on the supply of 2,000-pound bombs to Israel, a White House source told Reuters on Saturday.

The move was widely expected. Then-President Joe Biden put the hold on the delivery of those bombs due to concern over the impact they could have in Israel’s war with Hamas in Gaza. A ceasefire to halt the war was recently agreed.

The Biden administration’s particular concern had been over the use of such large bombs in the city of Rafah, where more than one million Palestinians in Gaza had taken refuge.

Biden put a hold on these bombs. Trump undid it.

Please explain how that means that Biden is the one providing " unlimited aid and support".

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Yeah, tried and failed. If they couldn't do it with Biden backing them don't see any reason to think they'll be more successful with a less competent, less dedicated and more easily distracted US president backing them up.

Not unless Trump decides to send in the B-52s to carpet bomb the entire strip

Have you even been paying attention for the past year and a half? Gaza has already basically been Hiroshima-ed (like I read the other day they literally have the same percentage of destroyed buildings). You think Trump can do better than the genocide army set up next door with?

Absolutely- America has B52s. Israel doesn't. If they want to carpet bomb the strip, they have the means to do it. It's the ideal shape for bombing runs.

[bilateralrope]

Yeah, tried and failed. If they couldn't do it with Biden backing them don't see any reason to think they'll be more successful with a less competent, less dedicated and more easily distracted US president backing them up.

Not unless Trump decides to send in the B-52s to carpet bomb the entire strip

Have you even been paying attention for the past year and a half? Gaza has already basically been Hiroshima-ed (like I read the other day they literally have the same percentage of destroyed buildings). You think Trump can do better than the genocide army set up next door with?

Gaza still has people living in it.

Trump doesn't like that

[Ralin]

Absolutely- America has B52s. Israel doesn't. If they want to carpet bomb the strip, they have the means to do it. It's the ideal shape for bombing runs.

And then when the bombing runs are over the survivors will salvage what they can from the rubble and keep clinging on the same way they have been this entire time. This has been going on for quite a long while.

Israel has proven it cannot force the Palestinians to leave, and neither can the US. Otherwise they would have done it by now.

Gaza still has people living in it.

Trump doesn't like that

Happily Trump doesn't have anymore ability to do that than his predecessor.

[Dark Hellion]

Ralin, it is not a dearth of firepower that has kept people in Gaza, it's a lack of political will and capital. We could absolutely kill every living being in Gaza without breaking a sweat. This is not some big challenge, we know what industrial scale total genocidal warfare looks like and can do from WWII. The current Gaza conflict is nowhere near that.
It's shit to say it, but the reason the Gazan people are alive is not some special resiliency, its that they are more useful for the powers that be alive than dead. Trump doesn't give a shit about this at all. The Gazans are just vermin in the way of his property.

[Ralin]

Ralin, it is not a dearth of firepower that has kept people in Gaza, it's a lack of political will and capital. We could absolutely kill every living being in Gaza without breaking a sweat.

Prove it. I've heard variations of how the US could have won every single conflict it's lost in the past century if we REALLY wanted to and this just sounds like another version of that. Prove that this time the US really could just press the win button if it stopped hiding its power level.

This is not some big challenge, we know what industrial scale total genocidal warfare looks like and can do from WWII. The current Gaza conflict is nowhere near that.

Yeah we do know what it can do from World War II. And one thing it can't do is wipe out a country's population. Massive bombing campaigns cause mass death and horror but they don't actually break countries' will to fight or ability to keep doing so. Something like 2/3rds of all buildings in Gaza have been reduced to rubble in the past year and a half. Hospitals, schools, apartment complexes, government buildings, etc. And you seriously think bombing them again plus the other third that wasn't as much of a priority is going to change the outcome?

It's shit to say it, but the reason the Gazan people are alive is not some special resiliency, its that they are more useful for the powers that be alive than dead.

It's because wiping out the population of an entire country is non-trivially difficult no matter how much stronger your military is. It's because Israel flat out didn't have the manpower and willingness to go in on foot and round up all of the Palestinians. And neither does the US Army.

You can't conquer a country from the air. Soldiers can raid and occupy. Bombers can only do the raiding part. Turns out that people can hunker down and survive an amazing amount of raiding if they have to.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Who is going to clean up the mess and rebuild Gaza as tens of thousands make historic return home?

History is unfolding in Gaza today.

For the first time ever, Palestinians expelled from their land are being allowed to go back.

The exodus of tens of thousands from southern to northern Gaza represents the mythical ‘right of return’ actually happening in practice. Or at least a version of it.

From the Palestinian perspective that term officially refers to refugees displaced during the wars of 1948 and 1967 and now living in exile in neighbouring countries, as well as the West Bank and Gaza.

Just a day after President Trump went public with a proposal to send up to one and a half million Gazans to Egypt and Jordan, the symbolism of today’s return from south to north should not be underestimated.

It’s a year since more than a million people were forced out of northern Gaza by advancing Israeli forces.

Ever since that evacuation there have been signs of Israeli preparations to re-settle that part of the Strip, which Israel left back in 2005.

Mr Trump recently extolled the virtues of Gaza’s location and climate. The real estate mogul in him sees the potential for some sort of riviera.

And while in practical terms, moving people out so the demolition site can be cleared and redeveloped, has some merit, in emotional and historical terms it’s a non-starter.

After all, until today, Israel has never allowed expelled Palestinians to return home.

Neither Jordan nor Egypt is inclined to accept any more Palestinian refugees.

Mr Trump may only have been thinking out loud, but his idea highlights the one big missing component as the Gaza ceasefire unfolds - what is the plan for Gaza?

Who is going to administer the Strip? Who is going to clean up the mess and rebuild? And who is going to pay for it?

[Elfdart]

Britain was still cleaning up rubble three decades after The Blitz -and no one was blocking concrete, rebar or other building materials. Israel has made Gaza unlivable: No hospitals, schools, water, sanitation or electricity is left. The slaughter of one-tenth of the population is just the first act. In the upcoming years, the other two million people will either have to leave or die slowly from exposure, disease or starvation.

I have a Modest Proposal to solve this dilemma:

Since the USA has decided that Palestinians can't live in their own country, why not bring them to America? Yes, all fourteen million Palestinians on Earth.

[LadyTevar]

Britain was still cleaning up rubble three decades after The Blitz -and no one was blocking concrete, rebar or other building materials. Israel has made Gaza unlivable: No hospitals, schools, water, sanitation or electricity is left. The slaughter of one-tenth of the population is just the first act. In the upcoming years, the other two million people will either have to leave or die slowly from exposure, disease or starvation.

I have a Modest Proposal to solve this dilemma:

Since the USA has decided that Palestinians can't live in their own country, why not bring them to America? Yes, all fourteen million Palestinians on Earth.

We would barely take in Jews after the Holocaust. That's why there IS an Israeli nation.
There's no way, especially with the current administration, that any Palestinians would be allowed to emigrate to the US.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Britain was still cleaning up rubble three decades after The Blitz -and no one was blocking concrete, rebar or other building materials. Israel has made Gaza unlivable: No hospitals, schools, water, sanitation or electricity is left. The slaughter of one-tenth of the population is just the first act. In the upcoming years, the other two million people will either have to leave or die slowly from exposure, disease or starvation.

I have a Modest Proposal to solve this dilemma:

Since the USA has decided that Palestinians can't live in their own country, why not bring them to America? Yes, all fourteen million Palestinians on Earth.

Since Russia has decided that Ukrainians can't live in their own country, and the USA has decided to abandon aid, why not bring all 40 million Ukrainians to the USA?

[Elfdart]

Britain was still cleaning up rubble three decades after The Blitz -and no one was blocking concrete, rebar or other building materials. Israel has made Gaza unlivable: No hospitals, schools, water, sanitation or electricity is left. The slaughter of one-tenth of the population is just the first act. In the upcoming years, the other two million people will either have to leave or die slowly from exposure, disease or starvation.

I have a Modest Proposal to solve this dilemma:

Since the USA has decided that Palestinians can't live in their own country, why not bring them to America? Yes, all fourteen million Palestinians on Earth.

Since Russia has decided that Ukrainians can't live in their own country, and the USA has decided to abandon aid, why not bring all 40 million Ukrainians to the USA?

In order for this fucktarded analogy of yours to make any kind of sense, the US would've had to have been backing Russia's attack on Ukraine when for the record, Uncle Sam has opposed it. OR the US would have given the Palestinians over $200 billion (in weapons alone) while carrying out mass sanctions and sabotage against Israel. No such thing happened. Nice attempt at trying make another thread about Ukraine's lost war with Russia. Now go home and get your fucking shine box.

We would barely take in Jews after the Holocaust.

Another failed analogy. America had nothing to do with perpetrating the Holocaust. We have everything to do with carrying out the genocide in Gaza.

That's why there IS an Israeli nation.

Not really. Zionism began decades before the Final Solution and in any event, Zionists collaborated with Nazi Germany before and during the war. Israel exists as an independent nation for the same reason India, Pakistan and many other countries do: the British Empire was in no position to keep them.

There's no way, especially with the current administration, that any Palestinians would be allowed to emigrate to the US.

Like Jonathan Swift (whose Modest Proposal for solving chronic famine in Ireland was to encourage starving Irish peasants to eat their own children) I was being somewhat facetious. I do think that as the perpetrator of the genocide in Gaza, the US should foot the bill for reparations -including taking in refugees.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Britain was still cleaning up rubble three decades after The Blitz -and no one was blocking concrete, rebar or other building materials. Israel has made Gaza unlivable: No hospitals, schools, water, sanitation or electricity is left. The slaughter of one-tenth of the population is just the first act. In the upcoming years, the other two million people will either have to leave or die slowly from exposure, disease or starvation.

I have a Modest Proposal to solve this dilemma:

Since the USA has decided that Palestinians can't live in their own country, why not bring them to America? Yes, all fourteen million Palestinians on Earth.

Since Russia has decided that Ukrainians can't live in their own country, and the USA has decided to abandon aid, why not bring all 40 million Ukrainians to the USA?

In order for this fucktarded analogy of yours to make any kind of sense, the US would've had to have been backing Russia's attack on Ukraine when for the record, Uncle Sam has opposed it. OR the US would have given the Palestinians over $200 billion (in weapons alone) while carrying out mass sanctions and sabotage against Israel. No such thing happened. Nice attempt at trying make another thread about Ukraine's lost war with Russia. Now go home and get your fucking shine box.

That was when Biden was in charge, did you really think that Putin's buddy Trump was going to continue sending aid to Ukraine? Because I hate to break it to you, but they've already cancelled foreign aid, including Ukraine.

[Elfdart]

Trump just announced his own version of a Final Solution: removing all Palestinians from Gaza. This is more or less the same thing Genocide Joe wanted to do last year, except Biden wanted them death-marched into concentration camps in the Sinai Desert while Trump is promising a "Riviera" for them. Of course he's bullshitting, but he made a very revealing Freudian slip about Gaza, as Arnaud Bertrand points out:

LINK

Already twice that Trump has said there are now "1.7 to 1.8m people" in Gaza, which means it's probably a number he's been briefed on.

Before the war the population was 2.1-2.3m.

As a reminder, almost no-one could leave Gaza during the war.

Do the math.

That's a discrepancy of 300-600,000 people who are most likely dead.

[LadyTevar]

Egypt, The Saudis, and of course the Palestinians themselves are throwing fits over Trump's proposal.

No idea what Israel thinks about it

[EnterpriseSovereign]

'This land is ours': Palestinians condemn Trump's proposal to 'take over' Gaza

Palestinians have assured Donald Trump that they "will not leave" Gaza after the US president suggested he will "take over" the territory and "permanently" rehome its residents elsewhere.

Trump’s remarks, made during a meeting with Israeli President Benjamin Netanyahu on Tuesday night, have been condemned by charities and politicians worldwide, who describe them as ethnic cleansing.

Meanwhile, White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt has contradicted Donald Trump’s suggestions that the residents of the Gaza Strip could be permanently relocated elsewhere.

Speaking at a press conference, Levitt said: "The president has made it clear that they need to be temporarily relocated out of Gaza. It’s a demolition site.”

Ibrahim Abu Rizk, who was displaced from Gaza to Egypt by Israel, said on Wednesday: "We will not leave our homeland. This land is ours, and they are the ones who should leave. We reject Trump’s decisions and those of his aides and supporters who push for displacement.

"Why should we be forced into displacement? We remain here, even if it means living on the rubble of our homes - better that than living in humiliation elsewhere.

"For a year and a half, we have been slaughtered, bombed, and destroyed—only to then leave just like that? We will not leave this land. They are the ones who must leave, not us."

Subscribe free to our weekly newsletter for exclusive and original coverage from ITV News. Direct to your inbox every Friday morning.

Trump’s proposals could directly pose a risk to the Israel-Hamas ceasefire deal, as Palestinians return to their homes in Gaza and Hamas releases Israeli hostages.

Directly challenging Trump, Prime Minister Keir Starmer said Palestinians "must be allowed to return home" and rebuild as part of a path towards a two-state solution.

Speaking at Prime Minister’s Questions on Wednesday, he said: “(Palestinians) They must be allowed home. They must be allowed to rebuild, and we should be with them in that rebuild on the way to a two-state solution."

What did Trump propose?

Trump said: "The US will take over the Gaza Strip, and we will do a job with it too. We'll own it and be responsible for dismantling all of the dangerous unexploded bombs and other weapons on the site, level the site, and get rid of the destroyed buildings, level it out, create an economic development that will supply unlimited numbers of jobs."

"We'll make sure that it's done world-class. It'll be wonderful for the people - Palestinians, Palestinians mostly, we're talking about."

Afterwards the 78-year-old told reporters outside the Oval Office: "You can’t live in Gaza right now. I think we need another location.

“I think it should be a location that’s going to make people happy. You look over the decades, it’s all death in Gaza. This has been happening for years. It’s all death.

"If we can get a beautiful area to resettle people, permanently, in nice homes where they can be happy and not be shot and not be killed and not be knifed to death like what’s happening in Gaza."

He called on Jordan, Egypt, and other Arab countries to temporarily take in Palestinians from Gaza while reconstruction takes place following the war between Hamas and Israel.

Reaction around the world

United Nations

The UN’s Human Rights Office (UNHR) has warned that any forcible transfer or deportation of people from occupied territories would violate international law.

“It is crucial that we move towards the next phase of the ceasefire, to release all hostages and arbitrarily detained prisoners, end the war and reconstruct Gaza, with full respect for international humanitarian law and international human rights law,” the UNHR said.

USA

Republicans largely refused to comment on Trump's comments, while others were sceptical.

Democrats were more, labelling his proposal as “crazy” and “dangerous".

Palestinian-American member of Congress, Democrat Rashida Tlaib, accused Trump of "openly calling for ethnic cleansing".

While ethnic cleansing is not officially defined in international law, the UN describes it as "rendering an area ethnically homogeneous by using force or intimidation to remove persons of given groups from the area".

Israel

Netanyahu smiled while Trump made his comments on Tuesday, saying his proposals proved his “willingness to puncture conventional thinking” and to think “outside the box".

Trump's plans are expected to gain support from far-right Israeli politicians, who have strongly opposed the Israel-Hamas ceasefire and given Netanyahu some trouble.

Itamar Ben Gvir, the former national security minister who resigned last month in protest of the ceasefire, called Trump’s plan "the solution" and vowed to return to government if it were implemented.

Egypt

Egyptian Foreign Minister Badr Abdelatty told Palestinian Authority Prime Minister Mohammad Mostafa on Wednesday that Palestinians should not leave Gaza while it is being rebuilt.

“Regarding the humanitarian situation in Gaza, the meeting stressed the importance of moving forward with early recovery projects and programs, removing rubble and delivering humanitarian aid at an accelerated pace, without the Palestinians leaving the Gaza Strip," Egypt’s Foreign Ministry said.

Saudi Arabia

Saudi Arabia, an important intermediary for the US, quickly responded saying its long-held call for an independent Palestinian state was a "firm, steadfast and unwavering position."


Donald Trump suggests plan to 'clean out' all of the Gaza Strip

Netanyahu says Israel retains 'right to return to fighting if needed' in Gaza
Jordan

Jordan's King Abdullah II rejected any plans that include displacing Palestinians from Gaza or the occupied West Bank

"He stressed the need to stop (Jewish) settlement activities and reject any attempts to annex lands and displace Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank,” a statement published by Jordan’s state news agency read.

Hamas

Hamas, which carried out its October 7 attack on Israel, said Trump's proposal was a "recipe for creating chaos and tension in the region".

"Instead of holding the Zionist occupation accountable for the crime of genocide and displacement, it is being rewarded, not punished," the militant group said in a statement.

France

France has repeated its opposition to any forced displacement of Palestinians, with a spokesperson for the Ministry for Europe and Foreign Affairs warning that such actions would be a "serious violation of international law" and an attack on the legitimate aspirations of the Palestinians.

I wasn't sure which thread this goes in so I posted in both.

[Elfdart]

Egypt, The Saudis, and of course the Palestinians themselves are throwing fits over Trump's proposal.

No idea what Israel thinks about it

Israel and Blinken already proposed is last year and floated the idea of writing off Egypt's debts if they agreed to lease out the Sinai for a new concentration camp. So not only are they in favor of it, but it might've been their idea all along.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Egypt, The Saudis, and of course the Palestinians themselves are throwing fits over Trump's proposal.

No idea what Israel thinks about it

Israel and Blinken already proposed is last year and floated the idea of writing off Egypt's debts if they agreed to lease out the Sinai for a new concentration camp. So not only are they in favor of it, but it might've been their idea all along.

It was late 2023:

Israel considers settling Palestinians in Sinai in exchange for writing off Egypt’s debt: Newspaper

Israeli newspaper Yedioth Ahronoth revealed a new plan being considered by Tel Aviv to persuade Egypt to receive all residents of Gaza and settle them in its territory within Sinai – in exchange for writing off all of Egypt’s debts to the World Bank.

According to the newspaper, Israel is trying its best to pressure Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi to accept refugees from the Gaza Strip.

It reported that Egypt fears that large numbers of refugees will attempt to cross and penetrate the Rafah border crossing.

Sisi said earlier that the Egyptian people will strongly oppose the arrival of Palestinian refugees from Gaza Strip to Sinai.

Such a move would turn Sinai into a center from which attacks against Israel would be launched, and Egypt would turn into a base for armed operations which could drag Egypt into war with Israel, he warned.

About 2.4 million Palestinians live in the Gaza Strip, and with the beginning of the war, a large number of them flocked to the closed Rafah crossing.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Hamas suspends release of hostages as it accuses Israel of breaking ceasefire

Hamas has said it will delay the next planned release of hostages from the Gaza Strip after accusing Israel of violating the ceasefire agreement.

The announcement is the first major test of the fragile ceasefire during which Israeli hostages have been released by Hamas and dozens of detained Palestinians freed by Israel.

Hamas accused Israel of shelling Gaza in recent days and that it had not met its commitments on humanitarian aid. Israel has denied breaking the terms of the agreement.

It puts further pressure on Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu who is being urged to secure a faster release of all of the hostages taken by Hamas after Saturday’s release shocked many with the three Israelis all pictured looking gaunt and emaciated.

After Hamas's announcement protests organised by the families of hostages held by Hamas erupted in Tel Aviv

The tense situation in Israel and Gaza has been made even more complicated by President Donald Trump expanding on his plan for the US to rebuild the Strip.

He has suggested Gazans would be deported from their homes to other Arabic countries while the reconstruction took place.

Speaking to Fox News the president said his plan to "take over Gaza" would not include a right to return to the nearly two million people who live there.

In the same interview, he said it would take years but "safe communities" for them.

He said he believed he could make a deal with Egypt and Jordan to take in the Palestinians, both of whom have rejected such suggestions in recent days.

Israel and Hamas are in the midst of a six-week ceasefire during which Hamas has committed to releasing 33 hostages captured in its October 7 attack in exchange for nearly 2,000 Palestinian prisoners.

The sides have carried out five swaps since the ceasefire went into effect last month, freeing 21 hostages and More than 730 Palestinian prisoners. The next exchange, scheduled for Saturday, called for three more Israeli hostages to be freed in exchange for hundreds of Palestinian prisoners.

Israel Defence Minister Israel Katz said Hamas’ plan to delay the next release of hostages was “a complete violation” of the ceasefire agreement and that he instructed the Israeli military to be on the highest level of alert.

Hamas spokesperson Abu Obeida said Israel has continued to obstruct key provisions of the deal, specifically regarding humanitarian aid.

“The resistance leadership has closely monitored the enemy’s violations and its failure to uphold the terms of the agreement,” Obeida said.

He said Israel had violated the terms of the ceasefire by not allowing Palestinians to return to northern Gaza, carrying out strikes across the Gaza Strip, and failing to facilitate the entry of humanitarian aid.

The Hostages and Missing Family Forum, which represents many of the hostage families, called on mediating countries to restore the existing deal.

"Recent evidence from those released, as well as the shocking conditions of the hostages released last Saturday, leaves no room for doubt — time is of the essence, and all hostages must be urgently rescued from this horrific situation," the Forum said.

On Monday, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas ended a controversial system that paid stipends to the families of Palestinian prisoners, including those convicted in deadly attacks on Israel.

The US, along with Israel, has said the so-called 'martyrs fund' rewarded violence against Israel.

The step is aimed at improving relations with the new administration of President Trump.

Under the new system announced by Abbas, prisoners’ families will still be eligible for government assistance, but only depending on their financial needs. Previously, payments were determined based on the amount of time a prisoner had spent in prison.

The system will also be transferred from the Palestinian government to an outside foundation.

During Trump’s first term, the US halted assistance to the Palestinian Authority because of the fund, while Israel has withheld hundreds of millions of dollars of tax transfers to the cash-strapped authority because of the policy.

A senior Palestinian official said the Palestinians have informed the Trump administration of the decision and hope the US legislation cutting assistance, known as the Taylor Force Act, will be rescinded and that Israel will unfreeze the transfers.

He spoke on condition of anonymity because he was discussing internal deliberations.

[Solauren]

This is probably what he has planned with the ICE raids.
Clear enough people out of a neighbourhood, seize the property of the landlords that rented to them, and then 'redevelop' them under the Trump brand.


The Robber Barons have returned......