Andromeda Systems Commonwealth vs Galactic Empire

[Bryan]

Gee, maybe because of multiple power settings?

I know of stun and regular (I guess kill), so what other settings are there? I've always heard Warsies proclaim the greatness of a blaster for its simplicity, since it supposedly doesn't have all these settings (like a phaser which makes it a "superior tool").

Blasters blew chunks out of walls in ANH, yet only scorched Leia in ROTJ.

That seems to either show inconcistency within the films or Stormtrooper incompetence, either one I don't care. Why a Stormie wouldn't have his blaster set to a high enough power to kill in one shot, even if glancing is kinda stupid. IMO.

Tell me, is a human arm stronger then a wall? You need high powered blasts to kill a Stormie. That civilian blaster took all its power to punch through.

Now how do you know this civilian blaster took all of its power to punch through? I've never heard nor read of an event like that. Never saying "We gotta set the power settings to maximum" or anything like that. Perhaps you could provide some proof for your speculations?

[His Divine Shadow]

That seems to either show inconcistency within the films or Stormtrooper incompetence, either one I don't care. Why a Stormie wouldn't have his blaster set to a high enough power to kill in one shot, even if glancing is kinda stupid. IMO.

Let's see, by firing at what is required to kill a man instead of fullpower, wich seeimingly can vaporize a human, you can conserve shots, have less waste heat, less strain on the weapon, higher refire rate etc, etc, etc....

[Bryan]

Just like how blaster only leae a scorch
Cut the bullshit or we'll have it cut for you.
The wording variable firepower means nothing to you right?

I like it how everyone becomes so hostile. If you'd provide proof in your first posts I wouldn't have to challenge you, it's your own fault.

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Pg. 6: The side-mounted powerpack supplies enough energy for 100 shots. The E-11 can be set for a variety of power levels, from stun to full blast.
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-The Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology

What is full blast? Is it like a grenade-like blast or just kill? That's vague as to the power of the blaster's shot.

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Pg. 378: "Wonderful," the crewer grunted, checking the power level on his blaster.
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-Dark Force Rising

And this could be to see how much juice is left in his blaster. Again, this is a vague quote.

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"Qorl stood inside the training chamber holding a wicked-looking spear in his black-wrapped left hand. His droid replacement gripped the gleaming shaft with enough force to dent the metal."
...
"He cocked his droid arm back - and hurled the deadly weapon ..."

"Norys slammed into the wall, his helmet ringing against the hard metal bulkhead. His vision sparkled with impending unconsciousness." ...

"He looked down at his chest in amazement and saw only a nick in the white armor where the spear had struck."

Which says nothing as to the effect of a blaster on the armor, only an object. I believe that Stormie armor isn't designed to be "blaster proof", it is more designed along the lines to serve as a full body layer or protection against shrapnel. Since if a civilian blaster like we see in the movies can go through Stormie armor it would negate its prupose if it was designed as an anti-blaster system.

-Lightsabres

Here, more examples of blaster firepower:

We never saw how Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru were killed. Presumably they were shot with blasters and then burned?

And your other pictures, wasn't that using the Falcon's blaster? It could be one more powerful or a different model, unless you know what kind it was.

[Bryan]

That seems to either show inconcistency within the films or Stormtrooper incompetence, either one I don't care. Why a Stormie wouldn't have his blaster set to a high enough power to kill in one shot, even if glancing is kinda stupid. IMO.

Let's see, by firing at what is required to kill a man instead of fullpower, wich seeimingly can vaporize a human, you can conserve shots, have less waste heat, less strain on the weapon, higher refire rate etc, etc, etc....

Really, vaporize? I've never heard this one ANYWHERE.

[Bryan]

I've ehard of this before, but neer really seen any proof of this. Do you hae any books with page numbers dealing with this?

ROTJ, the rebel fleet was detected in hyperspace, atleast 18 LY's away from Endor.

In the book or movie?

I never said it could, I said they would be detected when they dropped out.

That's not a lot of time to set up an ambush or really anything. If the Imperial forces were pre positioned perhaps.

Why do you think that it had anything todo with propagation speed? The propagation speed is said to be C, and they had to be carefull not to vaporize the base they wanted to protect.

Then I don't see why they didn't use fewer warships to bombard the planet. They used Lusyanka and the other capitol ships that were kept in orbit. It still doesn't speak much for TL accuracy either.

In Andromeda the Andromeda could pick off tanks from orbit, while the NR had to basically carpet bomb the entire forrest around the base to destroy the masses of troops.

Rebel Stand shows that the laser attack coming from beyond the Coruscant system is just an ordinary capital ship firing in a timed fashion with the pipe-fighters.

Thus the bolt would not be travelling at a fast enough speed to really damage a Commonwealth warship. If you fire from 10 LH out and your bolt can only move at C, if that, the warships wont be there. Range doesn't much matter unless you can accuratley HIT things at that range.

Thats not the ranges most SW ships engage at, thats ROTJ your thinking of.

Yes I know...

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Pg. 153: "I said closer! Move as close as you can and engage the Star Destroyers at point blank range - that way the Death Star won't be albe to fire at us without knocking out its own ships!"

"But no one's ever gone nose to nose at that range, between supervessels like their Destroyers and our Cruisers!" Ackbar fumed at the unthinkable - but their options were running out.

"Great!" yelled Lando, skimming over the surface of the Destroyer. "Then we're inventing a new kind of combat!"

"We know nothing about the tactics of such a confrontation!" Ackbar protested.

"We know as much as they do!" Lando hollered. "And they'll think we know more!"

[continued on page 154]

Bluffing was always dangerous in the last hand: but sometimes when all your money was in the pot, it was the only way to win - and Lando never played to lose.

"At that close-range, we won't last long against Star Destroyers." Ackbar was already feeling giddy with resignation.

"We'll last longer than we will against that Death Star and we might just take a few of them with us.!" Lando whooped. With a jolt, one of his forward guns was blown away. He put the Falcon into a controlled spin, and careened around the belly of the Imperial leviathan.

With little else to lose, Ackbar decided to try Calrissian's strategy. In the next minutes, dozens of rebel Cruisers moved in astronomically close to the Imeprial Star Destroyers - and the colossal antagonists began bl asting away at each other, like tanks at twenty paces, while hundreds of
tiny fighters raced across their surfaces, zipping between laser bolts as they chased around the massive hulls.
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-Star Wars VI: Return of the Jedi Novellization

Okay, but do you have any other proofs of SW ships fighting at extreme long range?

Thats speed, not acceleration, SW ships can travel at near light speeds too.

Proof of this?

[His Divine Shadow]

I like it how everyone becomes so hostile. If you'd provide proof in your first posts I wouldn't have to challenge you, it's your own fault.

When you ask for stuff thats clearly evident in the movies, it sure annoys people.

What is full blast? Is it like a grenade-like blast or just kill? That's vague as to the power of the blaster's shot.

Noone knows how powerfull a full blast is, presumably enough to vape a human like in ANH.

And this could be to see how much juice is left in his blaster. Again, this is a vague quote.

And looking at blaster we see they have no power level indicators, only a red light that flashes when shots are getting low, couple it with my other quotes, and it's perfectly clear.

Which says nothing as to the effect of a blaster on the armor, only an object. I believe that Stormie armor isn't designed to be "blaster proof", it is more designed along the lines to serve as a full body layer or protection against shrapnel. Since if a civilian blaster like we see in the movies can go through Stormie armor it would negate its prupose if it was designed as an anti-blaster system.

I would like to see proof of that.

And there are not many weapons wich can get through storm trooper armor either, in most of the movies they had E-11's or powerfull weapons like the Dl-44, wich Han Solo modified to make it even more powerfull.
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Pg. 271: A half dozen shots. It probably won't get through stormtrooper armor, but it can make them dive for cover.
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-The Krytos Trap

We never saw how Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru were killed. Presumably they were shot with blasters and then burned?

Makes no sense.
Look at the surroundings, there is no evidence of a fire on the ground where they are, one of the skeletons is lying backwards over a pile of boxes, the other one has fallen down.
For your theory to be correct the stormies would have had to burn them somewher else, drag whats left of them there and position them like that.

And your other pictures, wasn't that using the Falcon's blaster? It could be one more powerful or a different model, unless you know what kind it was.

The falcons blaster was never seen nor used in ANH, that was Han's Dl-44, a powerfull handgun, though E-11's can be more powerfull at fullpower I reckon.

[Renewed_Valour1]

I'm not, it's just that when they jump out, the imps are going to have minutes or hours of sensor advantage over the CW ships.

From all indications it would be minutes considering the times that we've seen Andromeda come out of slipstream in systems.

Has effectors ever had enough KE to throw a man backwards? I've seen them impact humans, hardly different from the bullet weapons of today.

One could argue the same for blasters and of course someone will start yelling variable yield setting. So to borrow a popular one from you guys have you ever heard of variable yields? I've all ready said f-lances seem to have variable yield explosive charges on them or different yield effectors are loaded into them.

As for throwing a man backwards I can do one better than that. In "Starcrossed" Rommie shoots the Balance of Judgment's with her f-lance. The hit from the effector knocks/lifts him off his feet and into a panel on the bulkhead of the Maru with sufficient force to damage the panel. We've seen Rommie soak up multiple hits by gauss gun rounds at point blank range in "All Too Human" and they only inflicted minor damage to her. Gauss guns are described as firing supersonic rounds by All Systems and would be more akin to modern bullets. They had no effect on Rommie despite hitting in a similar part of her anatomy whereas a single effector blew the Balance of Judgment's ship made flesh off his feet and destroyed him.

We also see that some effectors have an explosive component to them. Hunt's f-lance effectors in "Devil Takes the Hindmost" can be seen causing several fair sized as they pass through the forest. Several blast are powerful enough that trees that are nearby can be seen moving and several people are knocked down at least within a 5 or 6 foot radius of the blast. "The Fair Unknown" also shows the crew firing into the ground in front of a group of horseback riding Warders who are attacking them. The effectors again explode and throw blasts of dirt and debris into the air though they don't appear to be as powerful as "Devil takes the Hindmost".

[His Divine Shadow]

In the book or movie?

Movie

That's not a lot of time to set up an ambush or really anything. If the Imperial forces were pre positioned perhaps.

They really won't need alot of time to stall the ships, according to the Imperial Sourcebook, an ISd can reach most systems in minutes.

Then I don't see why they didn't use fewer warships to bombard the planet. They used Lusyanka and the other capitol ships that were kept in orbit. It still doesn't speak much for TL accuracy either.

The Lusankya was at the time filled with screwups and troublemakers from all over the NR and they used only the Lusankya, I never saw anything about other weapons either, and when your weapons are in the GT range, you'd better be carefull.

In Andromeda the Andromeda could pick off tanks from orbit, while the NR had to basically carpet bomb the entire forrest around the base to destroy the masses of troops.

And in a comic the Executor opened fire on a rebel fleet as they came over the horizon of a sun, thats longer.
The NR also had to target indivudual warriors hiding in dense jungle all over the place, don't you think that if there were just a few tanks in open the open that they could not have taken it on with precision attacks?
This was a whole army, huge and massive.

Thus the bolt would not be travelling at a fast enough speed to really damage a Commonwealth warship. If you fire from 10 LH out and your bolt can only move at C, if that, the warships wont be there. Range doesn't much matter unless you can accuratley HIT things at that range.

Well the bolt is irrelevant, the actual beam is invisble.

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Pg. 3: Energy weapons fire invisible energy beams at lightspeed. The visible "bolt" is a glowing pulse that travels along the beam at less than lightspeed...The light given off by visible bolts depletes the overall energy content of a beam, limiting its range. Turbolasers gain a longer range by spinning the energy beam, which reduces waste glow.
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-Episode II Incredible Cross-Sections

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Pg. 80: While most pilots prefer visual sighting-wich is why most energy beams are configured to the visible light-spectrum-integrated combat computers and turret servos automatically make minute adjustments to improve fire accuracy. In space combat there is nothing more deadly than a highly skilled gunner paired with a good targetting computer.
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-The Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology

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Pg. 326: A hard green beam of light flashed between the two ships. The sighting ray of a big ship's cannon--you couldn't see the laser itself in vacuum, of course, but it followed the ionized marker you *could* see precisely.
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-Shadows of the Empire

And ranges like lightseconds will give the imperials big advantages, they can jump out of hyperspace and commence firing within seconds, the CW ships will not see whats coming.

Okay, but do you have any other proofs of SW ships fighting at extreme long range?

No because ranges are almost never said, except in the Black Fleet Crisis when Star Destroyers targeted and destroyed ground batteries from outside orbit.

Proof of this?

Pg. 291: Still moving at a substancial percentage of lightspeed, the Sabers flashed past a trio of Dozen X-Wings.

(ref: Star by Star)

Pg. 153-155: "Ready all weapons, Back out and drop the block on this one's mark. Three, two..."

Danni barely climbed into the turret before "mark." The cargo door thumped open, expelling a two ton square of durasteel, and the blastboat decelerated and slammed her into the transparisteel dome, and she grabbed for the cannon triggers and pushed herself into the firing seat.
...
The Blastboat accelerated. Danni's laser cannos went wild, catching a coralskipper by sheer chance and reducing it to pebble. The X-wings and Y-wings looped back to encircle the blastboat, masking the larger ship behind their own shields.
...
Danni fired a few more seconds, until the battle drew too close to the enemy cruiser, and the corvette and coralskippers broke off. She swung her cannons forward. A mere two hundred meters distant, the glowball was as large as a class three comet, and space beyond was filled by the Yuuzhan Vong cruiser.
...
"ready missiles and torpedoes. Spread pattern, " Saba ordered. "Hold...hold.."
...
"Fire all!" Saba commanded. "Cancel glowbal."
...
Then Danni remembered the block - the block the Yuuzhan Vong could not have seen when they grabbed the glowball - the two tons of durasteel accelerated to no small percentage of lightspeed. The energy on impact would be equal to mass multiplied by velocity squareed, divided by...

Danni was still doing the calculations when space turned white.

(ref: Star by Star)

[His Divine Shadow]

[Q]One could argue the same for blasters and of course someone will start yelling variable yield setting. So to borrow a popular one from you guys have you ever heard of variable yields? I've all ready said f-lances seem to have variable yield explosive charges on them or different yield effectors are loaded into them.[/Q]

You did? I only noticed effectors and explosive effectors

[Renewed_Valour1]

Makes no sense. Look at the surroundings, there is no evidence of a fire on the ground where they are, one of the skeletons is lying backwards over a pile of boxes, the other one has fallen down. For your theory to be correct the stormies would have had to burn them somewher else, drag whats left of them there and position them like that..

Actually I see no indications that blasters caused that damage. Any weapon in the Stormtrooper arsenal could have been used in that attack. The only firm fact is that Stormtroopers did it.

[Shrykull]

Does Andromeda (well, maybe this is stupid question) have energy shields, I don't recall much of a mention of them. Believe it or not some people actually thought that Star Wars didn't have any shields, since we never really, at least not clearly, see a weapon striking them (well, there was the Asteroids in TESB, but you couldn't see the shields that well) but we do hear tons of references to them and the main shields, like the death star one in ROTJ. Anyway, something else we haven't mentioned in the recuperative abilities of the Galactic Empire and Commonwealth ships, the Andromeda litterally got skewered by a mini block hole fired by the Magog Worldship and survived, put a hole you could see through right through the ship, could the empire survive that kind of damage to an ISD? Anyway, the two means of planet destruction the Commonwealth has are this "mamix charge" that's we've never actually seen, and the unorthodox method of overloading and ejecting the slipstream core, which would leave the ship resticted to slower than light speeds, and this doesn't take into account the planetary shields of the empire, Alderaan's of which the death star was able to overcome. We don't know if the Commonwealth has planetary shields.

[His Divine Shadow]

Actually I see no indications that blasters caused that damage. Any weapon in the Stormtrooper arsenal could have been used in that attack. The only firm fact is that Stormtroopers did it.

No, not really, you'd really have to point out this weapon to me, and give me a reason for why it cannot be a blaster.
I don't see any other weapon that could have caused that damage that is in the trooper arsenal, without no effects to it's surroundings.

[Patrick Ogaard]

Actually I see no indications that blasters caused that damage. Any weapon in the Stormtrooper arsenal could have been used in that attack. The only firm fact is that Stormtroopers did it.

No, not really, you'd really have to point out this weapon to me, and give me a reason for why it cannot be a blaster.
I don't see any other weapon that could have caused that damage that is in the trooper arsenal, without no effects to it's surroundings.

There is an official explanation for the blood-smeared, scorched skeletons: The Burning.

Han Solo at Star's End, by Brian Daley, 1979 (Daley also wrote the Star Wars radioplay)

"...You Know what I refer to, Solo-Captain?"

Han did. The Burning was a torture involving the use of a blaster set at low power, to scorch and sear the flesh off a prisoner, leaving only blood-smeared bone. Usually, a leg would be first, immobilizing the vicitim; then the rest of the skeleton was exposed, inch by inch. Any other prisoners could be made to watch, to break their will. The Burning seldom failed to obtain answers, if answers were to be hand; but in Han's opinion, no being who employed such methods deserved to live.


There are also references to variable power levels and focus of blasters in the above novel and its sequels. In Han Solo and the Lost Legacy, from 1980, Han and company are embroiled in a desperate fight with the ancient, armored war robots of Xim the Despot.

Han threw aside the useless assault rifle and drew his blaster, setting it for maximum power. Chewbacca stepped back, removing the magazine from his weapon and takng one of the larger ones from his bandoleer. Han stepped in front to cover him in a stiff-armed firing stance. He sqeezed off bolt after bolt, deliberately and with great concentration, into the approaching robot's cranial turret. Four blaster rounds stopped the machine just as it fired in response. Han ducked the heatbeam that split the air where he had stood. As the robot fell, the beam traced a quick arc upward.


Later in the battle, the gunman Gallandro temporarily saves Han's bacon by shooting one of the robots. Gallandro is using a custom blaster pistol:

The war-robot seemed to block out the sky, a machine out of a nightmare. But abruptly its cranial turret flew apart in a blast of charred circuitry and ruptured power routing as a thread-thin, precisely aimed beam found its most vulnerable point. Han scarecely had the presence of mind to take a step back, nearly treading on Chewbacca, as the automaton crashed at his feet like an old tree.


Han commenting on the shot:
"It was him, Gallandro," Han told his partner, "A fifty-, maybe sixty-meter tight-beam shot." The Wookie shook his head in bewilderment, mane flying.

[Renewed_Valour1]

There is an official explanation for the blood-smeared, scorched skeletons: The Burning.[/i]

Well that explains that rather well.

[Antediluvian]

One question that has yet to be answered, or even speculated on, is how Stormtroopers and Imperial Army forces would stack up against Lancers.

That I think is hard indeed, the weaponry of the Lancers, smart bullets, seems superior in accuracy, and they can even intercept physical artillery charges.

Now I think that heavy ECM jamming will negate the semi homing feature of smart bullets on major battlefields, I am also not sure as to how good they are at piercing stormie armor, looking at them impacting on humans I am not sure of their efficency...

How effective would the artillery interception ability be against the Empire though?

Don't they primarily use turbolaser artillery (like that huge anti-vehicle turbolaser weapon, Jesus, that thing is big.)?

[Renewed_Valour1]

How effective would the artillery interception ability be against the Empire though?

The f-lance's artillery intercept mode is meant to deal with mortar and small caliber artillery fire. I would guess the High Guard if they bothered to add the capability to their sidearms have other weapons meant to deal with larger caliber artillery.

[Patrick Ogaard]

How effective would the artillery interception ability be against the Empire though?

The f-lance's artillery intercept mode is meant to deal with mortar and small caliber artillery fire. I would guess the High Guard if they bothered to add the capability to their sidearms have other weapons meant to deal with larger caliber artillery.

The likeliest candidate for a major artillery intercept capability would have to be the dropship used by the Lancers. It is supposed to be the carrier and cramped temporary quarters for a full platoon of troops, and is armed with a 150 mm rapid-fire piece of gauss artillery, plus an antiproton cannon for direct fire use. Exactly how an antiproton cannon would be able to fire in an atmosphere without going kaboom at ground zero is another question, though a high-powered pathfinder laser might be one possible answer.

The 150 mm gun is supposed to be capable of an ungodly rate of fire, 1200 RPM, as well as being able to coordinate the fire patterns of multiple vehicles, making it perhaps the best candidate for heavy artillery interception capability. Even against major artillery, though, the 150 mm round seems gross overkill. Perhaps the weapon could fire subcaliber artillery countermeasure effectors.

Another major candidate for artillery interception platforms would be the huge combat robots deployed by the High Guard. Certainly the triple gatling cannon the robots' arms can be fitted with could put a considerable weight of fire in the air to intercept incoming artillery.

Of course, there's also the possibility that the High Guard at some point did the smart thing and produced a squad or section-level support version of the f-lance to provide a heavier weight of fire and harder punch. Then again, logical steps like that are rarely taken in SF TV, though one can always hope. Certainly a rapid-fire gatling-style version of the f-lance is conceivable, essentially a rifle stock fitted with six or more short f-lance tubes. The big question would, of course, be why Captain Hunt did not use such a weapon when the Magog were swarming through his ship, making the existence of such a weapon little more than idle conjecture. Cool idle conjecture, but still idle conjecture.

[Renewed_Valour1]

The big question would, of course, be why Captain Hunt did not use such a weapon when the Magog were swarming through his ship, making the existence of such a weapon little more than idle conjecture. Cool idle conjecture, but still idle conjecture.

Could be that he never had the chance to reach them. The weapons locker they reached may not have stocked the heavier weapons that were meant for planetary warfare. My best is on the Ung Tae carrying the heavier artillery intercept gear. Though the OE-Bots mount a shoulder launched missiles pack that we have yet to see used in combat.

[Patrick Ogaard]

The big question would, of course, be why Captain Hunt did not use such a weapon when the Magog were swarming through his ship, making the existence of such a weapon little more than idle conjecture. Cool idle conjecture, but still idle conjecture.

Could be that he never had the chance to reach them. The weapons locker they reached may not have stocked the heavier weapons that were meant for planetary warfare. My best is on the Ung Tae carrying the heavier artillery intercept gear. Though the OE-Bots mount a shoulder launched missiles pack that we have yet to see used in combat.

The idea of the particular weapons locker not necessarily stocking the big guns is valid enough, giving the creators of the show a reasonable way to explain away the previous absence of an individually portable support weapon.

The Ung Tae, with its 1200 RPM 150 mm gauss artillery piece, is certainly the likeliest choice for artillery intercept missions. As for the missiles on the bots, I strongly suspect that they are supposed to be short-range, variable-velocity versions of the usual Systems Commonwealth kinetic kill missiles. After all, a bot attacking heavily fortified positions or strategic targets might have a need for a missile capable of blasting a big bunker to flinders or turning a city into blasted rubble.

[Crossover_Maniac]

Hypothetical scenario: The Andromeda Ascendant accidently slipstreams into the galaxy controlled by the Galactic Empire into the same system that is currently occupied by an Imperial star destroyer on patrol. The captain of the ships radios the Andromeda to surrender. The captain of the Andromeda, Dylan Hunt, refuses and orders Rommie to open fire on the ISD with her offensive missiles.

The question is: what happens now?

The offensive missiles of the Andromeda are 1 kilogram projectiles traveling at 90% of the speed of light or 270 million meters per second. The kinetic energy of these missiles are 8.36E16 joules or 19.91 megatons. The momentum of the missiles are 6.19E8 kg*m/s .
Now, some people of this list will say this proves CW ships are ineffective against SW ships' shields and would be slaughtered in a conventional battle in comparison with heavy turbolasers. However, if you look carefully, you'll it's not so clear cut.

Before going any further, I suggest reading Mike Wong's shield commentary in the technology section of his page. Now, in the shield commentary, Mike Wong made calculations on how much force was applied to shields during a collision with an asteroid 70 meters in diameter with a density of iron traveling at 1000 meters per second with a momentum of 1.25E12 kg*m/s. This is over 2000 times the momentum of the Andromeda's missiles, but don't count out the CW forces just yet. There are two reasons why:

1). According to the shield commentary, in a scene in ROTJ, a Rebel fighter slamming in the bridge of an ISD and disintegrated at a distance of 10 meters from the surface of the ISD bridge, given a width of ten meters between the shields and the surface of the ISD's. This gives the asteroid 0.02 seconds to stop. The lower limit of force needed to stop the asteroid was 6.25E13 Newtons and more if the asteroid was stopped in less of a duration but the force would have a shorter interval of time. Now, let's look and see how much force would be needed to stop a CW kinetic kill offensive missile. In order to calculate the constant acceleration to decelerate an object at relativistic velocities, the equation of t=(2*x/a)^0.5 can not be used since time and distances of an object at relativistic speed changes from the point of view of a stationary observer. The calculations used are

t=[(d/c)^2+2*d/a]^0.5 and v=at/[1+(at/c)^2]^0.5 from USENET Physics FAQ website
where t is the time from the observation of the stationary observer (the Imperial Star Destroyer), d is the distance of the acceleration which is 10 meters, c is the speed of light. The acceleration worked itself to be 1.16E16 meters per second to the stationary observer. And with a mass of one kilogram, the force needed to stop the projectile is 1.16E16 Newtons. This is 187 times the force generated by the Hoth asteroid in calculation given in Mike Wong's shield commentary and larger than any of the Hoth asteroids. If the Hoth asteroids were able to sustain damage to the ISD's, it's not that hard to image the damage that the kinetic kill missiles could do. However, some of you may say, the ISD's survived at least 3 days of asteroid bombardment and still survived. The Andromeda would have to pound on the ISD a while before even collapsing its shields. That's assuming the firing rate of the offesive missiles were the same as the average asteroid collision rate. The forty ELS missile lauchings each has a firing rate of 8 missiles per second. That's a maximum rate of fire of 320 missiles per second. The Hoth asteroid collision rate doesn't even come close. Plus top with the fact that each one will generate at least 200 times more force than the average Hoth asteroid, the ISD wouldn't last longer than a few minutes. That is if the shields hold.

2). Let's look a little deeper than momentum transfers. Take a .22 caliber bullet, and a human fist. Believe it or not, a human fist has more momentum than a .22 caliber bullet. If anyone ever shot one from a rifle, they know there is very little recoil. This is an indication of the low momentum of the bullet (conservation of momentum or Newton's 3rd Law). There is more force generated by a person hitting you in the shoulder. Now, in the light that there is less momentum in a .22 caliber bullet fired from a rifle than a human throwing a punch, which you'd rather have if you only had two choices: Mike Tyson hitting you in the head or a head shot from a .22 caliber rifle? Obviously, as bad as it going to hurt, you'd rather take one to the head from Mike than from the bullet. This has to do with shear stress or the amount of force generated per unit area. Not only does the bullet has higher deceleration than the human fist, but all of the force is concentrated on a cross-section of .245 cm^2 as opposed to a cross section of 38.7 cm^2 for a human fist that is approximately 1.5 X 4 sq. in. (3.81X10.16 cm^2). Now, let's go back to the Hoth asteroids. Let's take an asteroid that is roughly cube-shaped, 70 meters on the side, and with a density of 7000 kg/m^3, and the same acceleration as the asteroid in the previous example given by Mike Wong, which is 1.2E14 Newtons of force. Next, we divide this number by the cross-section of the asteroid striking the shields, which is 4900 m^2, and assume it's hitting the ship at a right angle of its surface. The sheer stress is 24.5 GPa. Let's assume also the kinetic-kill missile is cube-shaped (more likely, it would be bullet shaped, for the sake of simplication, we're going with cube-shaped) and also with a density of 7000 kg/m^3. The volume of the missile would be 1/7000 m^3 or 1.43E-4 m^3. Cube rooting this number, the dimension of the missile would only be 5.23 cm on the side. The shear stress of the missile would be 8.12E10 GPa. This is over 3 billion times higher than the shear stress produced by the asteroid given in the example. Given the fact that the ISD's took damage from the Hoth asteroids, the EPS missiles will make hundreds of fist-size holes in the ISD's per second from one side of the ship to the other, leaving a trail of super-heated plasma from impacting with the hull, air, personnel, etc. and cooking alive anyone unfortunate enough to be near the trail made by the missiles. Those that are further away will be hit by energetic particles traveling at relativistic speeds and sterilizing the ship with radiation. Within a minute, an ISD would be swissed cheesed, internally heated, and radiated by relativistic projectiles.

[Mr Bean]

This of Course Assuming they Give the Andromda Time for this Missle Barrage

Also it should be noted this Missles like all missles are Vurable to Counter-Measures and Jamming NTM Simple Flak Bursts

We always knew this one was up in the Air, Depending on how Big, Fast and jamming weak these missles are can turn things alot off diffrent Ways

If I was the Commander I'd Send Two Wings of Ties to Escout Tie Bombers to the Andromda meanwhile launching the remaing two normal Squardens to Intercept the Missiles and switching my Main Guns to Anti-Flak While I have my Navigations office plot a jump BEHIND the Andomida while I move into postion to Excute it
Also Unlike the Hoth Field I can Shift my shields Arrond to Face All Forward, Somthing that will double my survival Rate(Shields are distriputed equal but can be reouted easily from all accounts)

[Renewed_Valour1]

Also it should be noted this Missles like all missles are Vurable to Counter-Measures and Jamming NTM Simple Flak Bursts

Of course the High Guard had their own advanced ECCM for their missiles and own ECM.

If I was the Commander I'd Send Two Wings of Ties to Escout Tie Bombers to the Andromda meanwhile

Ties would be cannon fodder when tossed up against the Andromeda Centaur Tactical Fighters which are more maneuverable and accelerate many times higher than a Tie. Then there's the fact that their engagement ranges are measured at around a light minute. Meanwhile the Shrike Strike fighters could jump the Tie Bombers. Even a Shrike is more than a match for a Tie in straight line acceleration.

Then there's the small detail than a Glorious Heritage Cruiser can out accelerate Tie fighters.

Also Unlike the Hoth Field I can Shift my shields Arrond to Face All Forward, Somthing that will double my survival Rate(Shields are distriputed equal but can be reouted easily from all accounts)

Considering the accelerating and maneuvering capabilities of those missiles they could probably very easily loop around and come in from behind.

[Antediluvian]

How effective would the artillery interception ability be against the Empire though?

The f-lance's artillery intercept mode is meant to deal with mortar and small caliber artillery fire. I would guess the High Guard if they bothered to add the capability to their sidearms have other weapons meant to deal with larger caliber artillery.

That's what I'm asking though. Their intercept ability wouldn't be that useful against Imperial artillery because of their nature.

Well, the majority at least.

[Mr Bean]

Allow me

Of course the High Guard had their own advanced ECCM for their missiles and own ECM.

But how they would fair aginst each other is the thing, I don't see any Highguard ships offering up Jammers that are so powerful they acutal wonk with Space-Time abit, Then agian since 70% of High-Guard Weaponry is Missle based I'm sure they've Spent a bit of time on it.

Ties would be cannon fodder when tossed up against the Andromeda Centaur Tactical Fighters which are more maneuverable and accelerate many times higher than a Tie. Then there's the fact that their engagement ranges are measured at around a light minute. Meanwhile the Shrike Strike fighters could jump the Tie Bombers. Even a Shrike is more than a match for a Tie in straight line acceleration.

Then there's the small detail than a Glorious Heritage Cruiser can out accelerate Tie fighters.

Point Concided if your right, I'd keep the Ties out for Missle Intercetion then

Considering the accelerating and maneuvering capabilities of those missiles they could probably very easily loop around and come in from behind.

Which gives me more time to shoot at them and it takes less than four seconds by all evidance to shift shield strength around

(Ref-Bacta War)
Sir! Our Port Shield is down, We can get it back up but it will lower our shield strength elsewhere.
Do it then
(No Pause)
Done sir.

I have a few more quotes if you want them

[Renewed_Valour1]

But how they would fair aginst each other is the thing, I don't see any Highguard ships offering up Jammers that are so powerful they acutal wonk with Space-Time abit, Then again since 70% of High-Guard Weaponry is Missle based I'm sure they've Spent a bit of time on it.

Then we have no situations where we would have had that spelled out to us. The only time we've had ECM clearly mentioned is a Pyrian Torcship jammed Andromeda's passive sensors to the degree where they went blind. They had to resort to active scanning instead.

Point Concided if your right, I'd keep the Ties out for Missle Intercetion then

Check All Systems all the figures for what I said is there. Even on missile interception the Ties are going to pretty much fall into the category of canon fodder. The Shrikes out far ranged and have a definitive edge in acceleration. In terms of maneuverability with the conditions we saw Centaurs operating in D Minus 0 they are as maneuverable and perhaps more than a TIE.

The only chance the Imps have is to overwhelm the Shrikes and Centaurs with sheer numbers. Then they can make them use up their missiles and close to AP cannon range. At that point the battle would even out some but even then slash and zoom tactics would probably be effective. A single ISD doesn't have enough fighters to beat out a GHC's fighter wings.

I have a few more quotes if you want them

Wouldn't mind them. That quote is a little too vague for my taste.


One of the things I've been turning over in my head is what type of situation the Empire would be in if they had no wormholes to reach Commonwealth space. The High Guard could slip in a few of their more powerful vessels like the Glorious Heritage Cruisers or Siege Perilous Destroyers to scout out and contact people who don't hole the Empire in high regard. The Rebels would be more than willing to help to refit High Guard vessels with FTL sensors and hyperdrives. As long as they play it smart the Empire by the time it figures out trouble is afoot the High Guard could pull back to their galaxy to refit their fleet.

Considering how slipstream and hyperdrive operate the only real chance the Empire has of attacking the Commonwealth is to get their hands on a slipstream drive.