Super Battle Droid vs Data

SWvST: the subject of the main site.

Moderator: Vympel

Omega-13
Racist Donkey-Raping Son of a Whore
Posts: 1218
Joined: 2002-07-06 10:50pm
Location: derek_m_p@hotmail.com
Contact:

Post by Omega-13 »

I don't want to add any fuel to the fire here but in all honesty i would agree with the above statment... first off you never see them punch other than one of them that knocked over a regular battle droid but that doesn't mean a thing. They are very stiff and straight foward, they are designed to shoot. Do you also asume that a regular battle droid can fight in CC also? I see that point you are trying to make but it canon doesn't prove it.
what we know from cannon is

1. they are infantry units
2. they have hands
3. they have demonstrated the ability to smash battle droids

we know they can smash things, and we know that melee combat is going to inevitable in warfare, so lets design a battle droid that can't fight! yes i like this idea
derek_m_p@hotmail.com

I'm a useless pile of subhuman racist filth who attacked Darth Wong's heritage and accused him of abusing his wife and children!

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... 99#1688299
HemlockGrey
Fucking Awesome
Posts: 13834
Joined: 2002-07-04 03:21pm

Post by HemlockGrey »

You seem to be missing a critical point.

The droid's blaster is *in it's hand* Therefor, it has no need to enter melee combat.It's weapon is attached to it's fist; therefor it's always going to be able to use it, even if it's grappling a foe. If you have a choice between a fist and a fully automatic plasma weapon, which will would you chose?

Futhermore, I have hands, and I can bash things, but I'm not an effective melee fighter. The possession of hands and the ability to bash things does not a melee fighter make.
The End of Suburbia
"If more cars are inevitable, must there not be roads for them to run on?"
-Robert Moses

"The Wire" is the best show in the history of television. Watch it today.
User avatar
Captain Cyran
Psycho Mini-lop
Posts: 7037
Joined: 2002-07-05 11:00pm
Location: College... w00t?

Post by Captain Cyran »

Omega-13 wrote: bullshit it ends there,
the battle droids (both models) are the primary infantry, supported by "armour"
the infantry has a lot more in common with present day earth than not.

what is unsupported? We know it can bash around normal battle droids, we know that it has hands, and we know its an infantry
So you are saying Battle Droids are good melee combatants? You are pulling assumptions.

It can bash a normal battle droid. A retarded person could do that but it doesn't mean that they have good melee skills.

It does not have hands, well let me restate that, it has hands but as far as I can see from the trailers it has no fingers.
Here is a quote from StarWars insider on SBD's "The hands of super battle droids look like metal mittins. Their lack of manipulative digits makes the droids useless for manual labor, but they were never designed for any job other than killing. A super battle droid cabn fire a blaster rifle by activating an "impulse transmitter" wired into its CLUMSY HANDS (as opposed to twitching a trigger finger), but usually it deals death from the double-barreled blaster cannons built into each forearm." Nothing is said in the entire article about SBD's having melee tactics.

It is an infantry unit yes. But Battle Droids do not have apparant melee combat abilities and if you want to pull strings then so will I, it is safe to assume that since Battle droids don't have melee abilities neither do SBDs.
Justice League, Super-Villain Carnage "Carnage Rules!" Cult of the Kitten Mew... The Black Mage with The Knife SD.Net Chronicler of the Past Bun Bun is my hero. The Official Verilonitis Vaccinator
Omega-13
Racist Donkey-Raping Son of a Whore
Posts: 1218
Joined: 2002-07-06 10:50pm
Location: derek_m_p@hotmail.com
Contact:

Post by Omega-13 »

Cyril wrote:You seem to be missing a critical point.

The droid's blaster is *in it's hand* Therefor, it has no need to enter melee combat.It's weapon is attached to it's fist; therefor it's always going to be able to use it, even if it's grappling a foe. If you have a choice between a fist and a fully automatic plasma weapon, which will would you chose?

Futhermore, I have hands, and I can bash things, but I'm not an effective melee fighter. The possession of hands and the ability to bash things does not a melee fighter make.
your right, nothing ever gets damaged in warfare, my mistake,

As for you bashing things around, could you not bash around an android made out of cardboard?
its the same principle, the battle droids are so much more durable its not even funny
derek_m_p@hotmail.com

I'm a useless pile of subhuman racist filth who attacked Darth Wong's heritage and accused him of abusing his wife and children!

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... 99#1688299
Omega-13
Racist Donkey-Raping Son of a Whore
Posts: 1218
Joined: 2002-07-06 10:50pm
Location: derek_m_p@hotmail.com
Contact:

Post by Omega-13 »

ok, i'll sum it up fast, since you guys can't catch on

the SBD can bash data into junk in a small space like the turbo lift, it doesn't have to be a great fighter, it has all the tools it needs
derek_m_p@hotmail.com

I'm a useless pile of subhuman racist filth who attacked Darth Wong's heritage and accused him of abusing his wife and children!

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... 99#1688299
User avatar
Captain Cyran
Psycho Mini-lop
Posts: 7037
Joined: 2002-07-05 11:00pm
Location: College... w00t?

Post by Captain Cyran »

The ability to bash a BBD into scrap does not translate into the ability to bash Data into scrap. Big arms on a droid does not mean it is strong. Data is far faster then an SBD and we have seen Data picking up rocks far larger then himself and moving things far heavier then he is. He's the size of a human, but he is far faster and stronger and smarter then one. In fact I am willing to say faster and stronger and smarter then an SBD.
Justice League, Super-Villain Carnage "Carnage Rules!" Cult of the Kitten Mew... The Black Mage with The Knife SD.Net Chronicler of the Past Bun Bun is my hero. The Official Verilonitis Vaccinator
User avatar
Master of Ossus
Darkest Knight
Posts: 18213
Joined: 2002-07-11 01:35am
Location: California

Post by Master of Ossus »

Omega-13 wrote:Give me a f*cking break, you guys are shouting un-suported non sense,

huge additional resources and costs to give a droid additional programming to do hand to hand if it needs to? It doesn't need 55 weapons to know how to use its hands if its blaster gets destroyed,

Give it a rest,
my favourite part by kamakazi Sith, that what we saw was the extent to what it can do, i love that line, I picked up a fork, i guess thats ALL i can do, even though i have the size and weight that would indicate i can do more

great job
Imbecile! It requires additional resources to make joints more articulate (to allow for HtH combat), and for stronger hydraulic (or similar) systems in order to allow for a better HtH capability. How can you not understand this? It does not require additional weapons, but the smashing of the Battle Droid that we saw was evidently about the limit of its abilities. Why would it need anything better? Your analogy to people is UTTER crap. It makes no difference. People are designed to be able to do a hell of a lot more than picking up a fork. They are designed to be able to scavenge for food and utilize simple tools dextrously. SBD are NOT designed for melee combat. How can you not understand this? And why the hell didn't you respond to my points, other than to say, "You're wrong." Could it be that you cannot respond to my points because I am right?

Your stupidity is analogous to DarkStar, in this debate. While humans were designed to be problem solvers, you were obviously not designed to be able to either hold your own in a debate nor to recognize facts when other people are smashing you over the head with them.
"Sometimes I think you WANT us to fail." "Shut up, just shut up!" -Two Guys from Kabul

Latinum Star Recipient; Hacker's Cross Award Winner

"one soler flar can vapririze the planit or malt the nickl in lass than millasacit" -Bagara1000

"Happiness is just a Flaming Moe away."
User avatar
Kamakazie Sith
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7555
Joined: 2002-07-03 05:00pm
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah

Post by Kamakazie Sith »

Omega-13 wrote:Give me a f*cking break, you guys are shouting un-suported non sense,

huge additional resources and costs to give a droid additional programming to do hand to hand if it needs to? It doesn't need 55 weapons to know how to use its hands if its blaster gets destroyed,

Give it a rest,
my favourite part by kamakazi Sith, that what we saw was the extent to what it can do, i love that line, I picked up a fork, i guess thats ALL i can do, even though i have the size and weight that would indicate i can do more

great job
Unsupported nonsense? You sir are the one shouting the unsupported nonsense......where is your proof that a SBD has melee combat abilities superior to that of Data.

Remember that in TMP, a Gungan simply flicked the head of a BBD and knocked it clean off IIRC. We didn't even see if the SBD did any sort of damage to the BBD, it just knocked it over. Given what we've seen of BBD they are incredible fragile....having a SBD backhand one and take knock it out of commission is NOT impressive compared to what we've seen Data do.........do you understand this? If you haven't something else that a SBD done that makes you think it is superior to Data?
User avatar
Master of Ossus
Darkest Knight
Posts: 18213
Joined: 2002-07-11 01:35am
Location: California

Post by Master of Ossus »

Omega-13 wrote:
Cyril wrote:You seem to be missing a critical point.

The droid's blaster is *in it's hand* Therefor, it has no need to enter melee combat.It's weapon is attached to it's fist; therefor it's always going to be able to use it, even if it's grappling a foe. If you have a choice between a fist and a fully automatic plasma weapon, which will would you chose?

Futhermore, I have hands, and I can bash things, but I'm not an effective melee fighter. The possession of hands and the ability to bash things does not a melee fighter make.
your right, nothing ever gets damaged in warfare, my mistake,

As for you bashing things around, could you not bash around an android made out of cardboard?
its the same principle, the battle droids are so much more durable its not even funny
You are unbelievably stupid! And you live in Canada, so unless you have moved there you cannot even excuse yourself by saying that you are a product of the American education system! And your grammar sucks ass!

Look, just because something is liable to get damaged in combat does not mean that you should upgrade the entire system around that potential vulnerability. It costs money and resources to upgrade systems. There is a point where it becomes better to build an additional unit with a small weakness that is not likely to present itself than to spend money to install failsafes. Think about it. Blasters are extremely reliable weapons. They function from Hoth to Tatooine to Dathomir without apparent problems. They can be damaged in combat, but let's say it takes 100 credits to make a SBD capable of fighting HtH with proficiency, and 5000 credits to buy a complete SBD without the upgrade. Blasters can take a considerable amount of abuse, and by all appearances require very little maintenance. Now, if the chances that the BD loses its blaster in combat through damage or malfunction, while the rest of the system remains functional, are one in 1000, it is far better to buy additional units with the money you otherwise would spend upgrading the original SBD. That is because you can buy additional units with an only slightly reduced combat function, and that advantage in numbers offsets their slight combat deficiency. You are an idiot for not recognizing this.

Now, you tell us that the SBD could bash Data into a cube. Do you have any evidence of that whatsoever? What the hell kind of tools does it have to bash Data into junk? It clearly is not designed for HtH combat. You not only have no canon evidence of SBD CQC combat capabilities beyond the laughably weak attack on an unprepared BD, but you IGNORE all of our arguments for why Data would be able to defeat the SBD in HtH combat.

You state that BD make Data look like cardboard. Go back and watch TPM, moron, the BD are dismantled in melee combat by Gungans. Data is obviously so much stronger than a Klingon warrior that the Klingon has no chance at harming him. How the hell did you come to your conclusion? It is analogous to DarkStar's statements in its bias and stupidity.

How did you come to the conclusion that melee combat is inevitable in warfare? In modern combat, melee action is only used if extenuating circumstances exist. This usually means modern firearms cannot be used due to space limitations, lack of ammunition, or reliability issues. We see that the SBD requires only TINY amounts of space for its weapons to operate. We know that blasters have very few reliability problems. We also know that blasters have considerable ammunition capacities. Melee combat is not inevitable for a SBD. IF the droids ever did have to engage in melee combat (for god knows what reason), it would be reasonable just to sacrifice that droid and have the next one in line (or, wherever) gun down whoever just sliced up the first SBD.

Get smart, dumbass. You ignored pages of rebuttals with nothing but repetitions of your original argument--just like DarkStar. You are essentially a pro-SW version of RSA, from what I can tell on this thread. This is ridiculous. Shut the hell up and start comprehending what people are telling you.
"Sometimes I think you WANT us to fail." "Shut up, just shut up!" -Two Guys from Kabul

Latinum Star Recipient; Hacker's Cross Award Winner

"one soler flar can vapririze the planit or malt the nickl in lass than millasacit" -Bagara1000

"Happiness is just a Flaming Moe away."
User avatar
Isolder74
Official SD.Net Ace of Cakes
Posts: 6762
Joined: 2002-07-10 01:16am
Location: Weber State of Construction University
Contact:

Post by Isolder74 »

1> Super Battle Droid
This "being" is specially equipted for this kind of situation and it's rate of faire will keep Data pinned down until the droid can hit him

2> Data
Data is better than the Battle droid in close quarters and can take quite a bit more punishment than the BD in HTH combat
Hapan Battle Dragons Rule!
When you want peace prepare for war! --Confusious
That was disapointing ..Should we show this Federation how to build a ship so we may have worthy foes? Typhonis 1
The Prince of The Writer's Guild|HAB Spacewolf Tank General| God Bless America!
Guest

Post by Guest »

Data's toast....
Omega-13
Racist Donkey-Raping Son of a Whore
Posts: 1218
Joined: 2002-07-06 10:50pm
Location: derek_m_p@hotmail.com
Contact:

Post by Omega-13 »

I"m going to reply to all of this, tomorrow, its 3 am, can't do it now, but tomorrow is a new day!
derek_m_p@hotmail.com

I'm a useless pile of subhuman racist filth who attacked Darth Wong's heritage and accused him of abusing his wife and children!

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... 99#1688299
User avatar
Crayz9000
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 7329
Joined: 2002-07-03 06:39pm
Location: Improbably superpositioned
Contact:

Post by Crayz9000 »

I don't appreciate flaming for its own sake, so if you guys just keep repeating the same points over and over with new insults added, this thread is getting closed pronto.

Consider this a warning.
A Tribute to Stupidity: The Robert Scott Anderson Archive (currently offline)
John Hansen - Slightly Insane Bounty Hunter - ASVS Vets' Assoc. Class of 2000
HAB Cryptanalyst | WG - Intergalactic Alliance and Spoof Author | BotM | Cybertron | SCEF
User avatar
His Divine Shadow
Commence Primary Ignition
Posts: 12791
Joined: 2002-07-03 07:22am
Location: Finland, west coast

Post by His Divine Shadow »

SBD fires a couple of shots and Data goes down, hard.

Then data is raped by the insane droid.
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who did not.
User avatar
His Divine Shadow
Commence Primary Ignition
Posts: 12791
Joined: 2002-07-03 07:22am
Location: Finland, west coast

Post by His Divine Shadow »

Oh, hand to hand, silly me.
Well the SBD is armored, with armor that can take regular blaster hits, we all know what those do against ordinary material from the triology...

It's powerfull enough to smash Datas unarmored body to itty-bitty pieces.
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who did not.
User avatar
His Divine Shadow
Commence Primary Ignition
Posts: 12791
Joined: 2002-07-03 07:22am
Location: Finland, west coast

Post by His Divine Shadow »

Omega-13 wrote:As for hand to hand combat, could Data tear a superbattle droid apart?
No, the battledroid is armored with a very hard and resiliant exo-skeleton, is powerfull enough to disintegrate ordinary droids with his fists, Data was impaled and disabled by some guy with a spear or something.
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who did not.
User avatar
His Divine Shadow
Commence Primary Ignition
Posts: 12791
Joined: 2002-07-03 07:22am
Location: Finland, west coast

Post by His Divine Shadow »

Master of Ossus wrote:I think that in normal combat scenarios, the super battle droid would win because of its much higher rate of fire. In melee combat, I think Data would win easily. He appears to be both significantly stronger and faster than the super battle droid.
I don't though, in ST:FC data didn't fight any faster than any human, and I doubt his punches can punch through armor, he didn't punch through borg drones nor doors in ST:FC
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who did not.
User avatar
His Divine Shadow
Commence Primary Ignition
Posts: 12791
Joined: 2002-07-03 07:22am
Location: Finland, west coast

Post by His Divine Shadow »

Master of Ossus wrote:The real problem for the SBD is that it was not designed for melee combat. Its joints don't articulate very well, and it does not appear to have overwhelming strength. I think that if it came down to a slugging match, Data would beat it.
They didn't seem too clumsy or slow to me, the fact they are designed like they are suggest to me that they can engage in meeles.
All the SBD needs is to get his hand on Data and jerk his own arm and Data will follow.
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who did not.
User avatar
His Divine Shadow
Commence Primary Ignition
Posts: 12791
Joined: 2002-07-03 07:22am
Location: Finland, west coast

Post by His Divine Shadow »

Master of Ossus wrote:The point is that the SBD would never be separated from its weapon. Its weapon is built into its arm! Therefore, it really should not be very well prepared for melee combat, as it would really have no reason to ever engage in fighting using its fists. It should be able to rely on its repeating blaster cannon for all of its combat needs. Think about it.
It has huge fists attacthed to armored and powerfull arms with what looks like having a human range of motion.
It looks like a boxer to me, it's casual smashing of the other battledroid also indicates it can fight in meele.
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who did not.
User avatar
His Divine Shadow
Commence Primary Ignition
Posts: 12791
Joined: 2002-07-03 07:22am
Location: Finland, west coast

Post by His Divine Shadow »

Isolder74 wrote:Data is better than the Battle droid in close quarters and can take quite a bit more punishment than the BD in HTH combat
I disagree, Data was hacked in the back with a pitchfork or a spear or something and he went down hard.

All the SBD has todo is to hit hard and he'd crush many internal systems and shit and Data would be crippled.
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who did not.
User avatar
His Divine Shadow
Commence Primary Ignition
Posts: 12791
Joined: 2002-07-03 07:22am
Location: Finland, west coast

Post by His Divine Shadow »

Captain_Cyran wrote:The ability to bash a BBD into scrap does not translate into the ability to bash Data into scrap. Big arms on a droid does not mean it is strong.


I believe the Visual Dictionary says they are more powerfull.

Data is far faster then an SBD and we have seen Data picking up rocks far larger then himself and moving things far heavier then he is. He's the size of a human, but he is far faster and stronger and smarter then one. In fact I am willing to say faster and stronger and smarter then an SBD.


In combat, data moves with the speed of a human.
And the droids armor will make it extremely hard for Data to inflict any real damage, while he is a soft target, one good hit could be crippling.
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who did not.
Omega-13
Racist Donkey-Raping Son of a Whore
Posts: 1218
Joined: 2002-07-06 10:50pm
Location: derek_m_p@hotmail.com
Contact:

Post by Omega-13 »

Oh my god, a fellow spacebattles warsie to the rescue, finally someone who agrees with me
derek_m_p@hotmail.com

I'm a useless pile of subhuman racist filth who attacked Darth Wong's heritage and accused him of abusing his wife and children!

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... 99#1688299
User avatar
His Divine Shadow
Commence Primary Ignition
Posts: 12791
Joined: 2002-07-03 07:22am
Location: Finland, west coast

Post by His Divine Shadow »

With weapons, Data has more of a chance here, but the SBD's rapid firing is going to be dangerous, it's even.

Hand to hand, SBD wins, definitly, it's protected by a very tough outer shell, I'd like to see Data smash his fist into the SBD and with a big crunching sound he breaks multiple components and skin layers on his hand.

Then the SBD takes his one arm in those gigantic claw hand of his and smacks data in the face with the other, until either Datas head falls off or his eyes are able to see his positronic net.
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who did not.
User avatar
Kamakazie Sith
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7555
Joined: 2002-07-03 05:00pm
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah

Post by Kamakazie Sith »

His Divine Shadow wrote:With weapons, Data has more of a chance here, but the SBD's rapid firing is going to be dangerous, it's even.

Hand to hand, SBD wins, definitly, it's protected by a very tough outer shell, I'd like to see Data smash his fist into the SBD and with a big crunching sound he breaks multiple components and skin layers on his hand.

Then the SBD takes his one arm in those gigantic claw hand of his and smacks data in the face with the other, until either Datas head falls off or his eyes are able to see his positronic net.
I don't recall seeing a SBD smash a BBD into bits.....

I guess I'll have to see if AOTC is playing somewhere then go watch it, because I don't remember big claws...or insane droid smashing ability either.

As for the armor....is it as strong as Stormtrooper armor? If so what is your source?
User avatar
His Divine Shadow
Commence Primary Ignition
Posts: 12791
Joined: 2002-07-03 07:22am
Location: Finland, west coast

Post by His Divine Shadow »

Kamakazie Sith wrote:I don't recall seeing a SBD smash a BBD into bits.....
It's in the fight scene, the SBD walks forward, slaps the battledroid outta the way so hard it breaks.
I guess I'll have to see if AOTC is playing somewhere then go watch it, because I don't remember big claws...or insane droid smashing ability either.
And you call yourself a warsie... tsk. tsk...
Those hands of it's are like claws, they have no fingers, just a palm a thumb and one big armored mega finger or something, looks almost like a boxing glove.
As for the armor....is it as strong as Stormtrooper armor? If so what is your source?
I'd say it's much stronger than stormie armor, remember, this armor needs not be light, like stormie armor, because it's not limited by human strenght.
And we do see it take blaster hits and they just make dents or vape small craters in it.

And the Clone rifles wich totally blows up Droiddekas doesn't seem to be able to be as powerfull on SBD's either, they throw them back, but they are intact.

The SBD is one helluva droid I think, it's been one of my fav droids in the SW universe.
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who did not.
Post Reply