Perfect solution to the Abortion dilemma?

RayCav of ASVS · Post by **RayCav of ASVS** » 2002-08-28 10:16pm

I heard someone talk about their "perfect" solution to the Abortion issue: National Gag order. Make people just stop talking about it. I told him he was a jackass, but I must admit:

1.) If people do stop talking about it, maybe abortion clinic bombings will stop, etc.
2.) I'm just damn fucking sick and tired of people talking about it.

BTW, I side with Wong with Abortion. Infact, it was my "stepping stone" towards becomming a Wongist.

Luke Starkiller · Post by **Luke Starkiller** » 2002-08-28 10:58pm

Just out of curiosity, what is the Great Lord's take on abortion?

Jack Lain · Post by **Jack Lain** » 2002-08-28 11:02pm

Luke: which great lord?

Luke Starkiller · Post by **Luke Starkiller** » 2002-08-28 11:03pm

er, Wong

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2002-08-29 12:02am

I can't speak for Mike, but my personal belief on abortion is as follows.

Abortion should be legal at any stage before the fetus stage. An embryo is not a human being, or anything near it. After the fetus stage, abortion should be illegal, because that's when the entity inside the womb starts to really resemble human life.

That's my take, and I think that Mike's is something similar.

DISCLAIMER: I am drunk right now.

Luke Starkiller · Post by **Luke Starkiller** » 2002-08-29 12:05am

That sounds pretty much like my belief as well. Although if it were my (potential) child I would be against it if at all possible.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2002-08-29 12:41am

I agree. you should be able to abort at an early stage.

Icehawk · Post by **Icehawk** » 2002-08-29 12:52am

Abortion should always remain legal. However when it reaches the fetal stage I believe it should only have the option to be aborted if their is some sort of risk to the mother for whatever reason.

On a side note, Im just wondering. Why aren't the bombings of abortion clinics considered terrorist attacks?

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2002-08-29 01:12am

I say abortions for some, miniature American flags for others.

Mr. B · Post by **Mr. B** » 2002-08-29 01:29am

On a side note, Im just wondering. Why aren't the bombings of abortion clinics considered terrorist attacks?

They technically are but do you see Ashcroft going after them. I think not. I think that deep down he likes what they do.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-08-29 01:59am

The big problem I see with banning late term abortions is that they are so often done for medical reasons. And I suspect attempting to create a complicated rule set to allow for some while banning others wont work.

So I support keeping all forms of abortions legal in America.

An abortion clinic bombing certainly is a terrorist act, and they were treated like them. But I don’t think the United States has had one during Ashcroft's time in power, and there's not a huge amount I could think he could do about any ongoing investigations other then stop them, which he has not done.

Mr. B · Post by **Mr. B** » 2002-08-29 03:36am

There is still a clinic bomber loose I think. Dissapeared into the Catskills and was never seen again. Eric Robert Rudolph.

http://www.fbi.gov/mostwant/topten/fugi ... udolph.htm

There may not be any new bombing but would Ashcroft divert as much reasources toward this guy as he did for Jose Padilla, a worthless lowlife who only said he wanted to build a dirty bomb.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2002-08-29 03:49am

Mr. B wrote:There is still a clinic bomber loose I think. Dissapeared into the Catskills and was never seen again. Eric Robert Rudolph.

http://www.fbi.gov/mostwant/topten/fugi ... udolph.htm

MWHAHAHAH

ERR!

Winner of the Hide and seek Championships seveeral years running!

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2002-08-29 07:09am

MKSheppard wrote:
MWHAHAHAH

ERR!

Err.. I think we're on to something here..

Seriously, I would lock 10 medical doctors in a room discussing the subject until reaching an agreement and then inplement the solution.

To my understanding, the fetus only begins showing EEG signs late in the gestation. That could be the Scientific mark separating legal and illegal abortion.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-08-29 08:38am

I say abortions for some, miniature American flags for others.

No Aboritons for anyone!
Boooooo
Aboritions for All!
Boooo
Hmmmm, Aboritons for some, Minature American flags for all!
Yaaah!

Don't blame me I voted for Kudos!

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2002-08-29 09:25am

I'm just curious. What good would miniature American flags do?

The question of abortion has been plagued for to long by religionistic fanatic arguments. In the end, the option to abort belongs to those having the child. That agreed, there must be a law. And that law CANNOT be suited according to some rulling party views.

The only way to garantee objectiveness is to aplly some proper SCIENTIFIC procedures. Starting by ignoring ALL the fundamentalistics"I feel a child is a child from the moment of conception" BS.

In Portugal this is a big issue. We have one of the most anacronic abortion laws in the E.U (with Irland) and recently a referendum trying to legalize abortion up to the 10th week received a negative answer. And guess.. The huge discussion was all about God and gut feellings. The media interviewed priests, fortune tellers and layman alike..
Scientists and medical doctors just do not attract as much audience

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2002-08-29 10:09am

Colonel: You obviously haven't been watching your Simpsons reruns. In a Halloween episode, two aliens ran for president, and one of them was talking about his stance on abortion. In order to appease the stupid crowd, he said, "Abortions for some ... little American flags for all!"

The crowd loved it.

The big problem I see with banning late term abortions is that they are so often done for medical reasons. And I suspect attempting to create a complicated rule set to allow for some while banning others wont work.

Why not? Just say that, unless there is a medical risk to the mother's life, late-term abortions are a no-no.

So I support keeping all forms of abortions legal in America.

I'd have to disagree. The whole method of leaving the child's head in the womb and then killing it just sickens me. The child is clearly a human being, at that point. What they're doing is reducing it down to legal technicalities and the location of the head. It's clearly ludicrous. However, scraping a few cells off the inside of the womb is a completely different matter.

An abortion clinic bombing certainly is a terrorist act, and they were treated like them. But I don't think the United States has had one during Ashcroft's time in power, and there's not a huge amount I could think he could do about any ongoing investigations other then stop them, which he has not done.

He's simply letting the clinic bombers do his dirty work. He's a fundamentalist Christian, and the entire Bush administration is "Pro-Life," so I don't think he really cares if an abortion clinic is bombed.

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2002-08-29 10:16am

Durandal wrote:Colonel: You obviously haven't been watching your Simpsons reruns. In a Halloween episode, two aliens ran for president, and one of them was talking about his stance on abortion. In order to appease the stupid crowd, he said, "Abortions for some ... little American flags for all!"

The crowd loved it.

Thanks!

I didn't remember that episode

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-08-29 02:36pm

Always watch the Hallowean ones, tradtionaly they ARE the absoulte pinical of all things Simpson

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2002-08-29 03:53pm

Colonel Olrik wrote: Err.. I think we're on to something here..

No, the ERR was for Eric Robert Rudolph...he's
attained near-cult status here in the States,
for successfully giving the Feds the finger and
disappearing never to be seen again....

Eric Robert Rudolph, the man charged in this bombing, the
1996 Centennial Olympic Park bombing and two others in Atlanta,
has been dubbed a folk hero by some in the anti-government and
anti-abortion movements because of his ability to elude hundreds
of investigators.

Rudolph is a former soldier and self-employed carpenter who
has been featured on T-shirts and bumper stickers with slogans
like "Hide and Seek Champion, Eric Rudolph."

.....

Helicopters, dogs, reward money and 200 agents combing the
woods, caves and houses around Andrews, N.C., have produced
nothing. Rudolph disappeared into the 500,000-acre Nantahala
National Forest the day after the Birmingham bombing, and
surfaced again only once, to get food at a friend's house last
summer.

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2002-08-29 03:58pm

My apologies.. admit my ignorance.. please don't shoot

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2002-08-29 04:00pm

Colonel Olrik wrote:My apologies.. admit my ignorance.. please don't shoot

Is your avatar one of Portugals fascist dictator's from the past?

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2002-08-29 04:15pm

No. It's the Main evil character (colonel Olrik) of a very popular book series in Europe, called Blake and Mortimer, by Edgar P. Jacobs (the heroes who always get lucky despite Olrik's sordid schemes).
[Do a google search for more]

I don't know if they are sold in the States, but it's great adult comics literature (For me, the best).

But now you mention it it's face resembles a bit good ol'Salazar. Creeps

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2002-08-30 03:26am

Robert Treder wrote:I say abortions for some, miniature American flags for others.

That might just work...

General Trelane (Retired) · Post by **General Trelane (Retired)** » 2002-08-30 11:43am

To be, or not to be? That is the question.

Personally, I disagree with abortion, but I must override such feelings with a woman's right to choose--within reason. What it comes down to is deciding when an unborn child is considered "life", which is different for different people. I have little problem with allowing first-trimester abortions, and in later stages (particularly the third trimester), abortions should still be available if the mother's life is in danger. However, such ideas would be difficult to put into law.

Some few years ago in Alberta (a province in western Canada), a movement was afoot to remove all but medically necessary abortions from the publicly funded health-care system (this would leave abortions available, but they would need to be paid for by the individual unless they were determined to be medically necessary). The provincial government, under the leadership of Premier Ralph Klein, decided it made good political sense to acquiesce, so they started to draft an appropriate bill. They asked the College of Physicians to define "medically necessary" abortions, and the physicians wisely declined because, even within the field of medicine, there are differing opinions. Thus the bill was killed before it got anywhere.

This is one example of how difficult it will be to define by law when an abortion is or is not acceptable. However, there is one thing that is totally unacceptable, and that is the use of terror and murder to further the anti-abortion stance. Pro-Lifers should be distancing themselves as rapidly as possible from people that commit such heinous acts.

For religious groups, I wish more of them would emulate the example of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada, which held a series of conventions in the late 1980's (IIRC) to adopt a policy on abortion. The resulting statement was one that in essence said, "While we disagree with abortion, the church's duty is to focus on those societal issues that cause women to consider abortion." In other words, they recognize the futility of arguing over the morality of abortion and that the women considering abortion are real people with real-life problems and worries. Unfortunately, this policy is not practiced uniformly by the membership of the ELCIC (in fact, there were many that were outraged that the policy pointedly refused to condemn abortions, and a number of these switched to more conservative churches).