BREAKING NEWS ONLY

[Sokar]

Never underestimate the shock value of the heavy armor, tanks don't look as big as they really are, especially the M1, plus theres that *squeakingrumblecrunch* as the tracks roll, just seeing one move slowly on a clear day is impressive , much less in full fighting trim, at speed in the early morning gloom, I'd run like hell too

[Coyote]

I have to admit, one of the most impressive sights I've ever seen in my life has been the 4th Infantry Division task force roll through a combat zone. Granted: this was NTC, National Training Center, and the combat zone was a training excersize.

I stood by my damaged M-113, which had been part of the vanguard of the attack. We'd been taken out and had the chance to sit back and watch the rest of the battle unfold. It was awesome to behold. It was just 1987, and we were still equipped with M-60 tanks. But the "squeeeclankclankclank clacketyclacketygrrrrrrrr" of close to 90 of these steel monsters grumbled across the valley and filled every nook and valley with the unmistakable feeling of raw force.

Later, as I learned to drive M-1 tanks, the cruel power of these beasts as they howled across the plains like rabid beasts was enough to fill the hardiest of warriors with pause. Yeah, as both tanker and as infantryman I heard the stories and theories about tanks and how to attack them; their vulnerabilities and almost eggshell-like soft points...

...it all changes when the bitch rounds the corner and your staring down a 120mm Rhinemetall and coax. That laser sight seems to peer right into your soul. In Basic, at Fort Benning Georgia, we underwent an excersize in which a tank would roll over our foxhole and we were to pop up and fire a LAW at its engine compartment. One of the most past-shitting moments of my life was seeing those treads bear down on me and to see the belly of that beast roll over my head like a storm cloud of solid armor.

Armchair bravado is nothing in the face of the real thing.

[Master of Ossus]

35 casualties, most of whom lived

Wait a second, isn't that a contradiction in terms?

No, a casualty is anyone wounded, not necessarialy killed in action.

It can sometimes even describe MIA's and POW's.

[Sea Skimmer]

Third Infantry is now attacking one of Saddams Baghdad Palaces on the ground.

[theski]

3 CIA agents Killed http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=200 ... 1300-9688r anybody else hear about this????

[Vympel]

3 CIA agents Killed http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=200 ... 1300-9688r anybody else hear about this????

Yes.

In other news- the attack staged into Baghdad was a raid. Exactly what the Brits are doing in Basra:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/04/ ... index.html

[Nathan F]

3 CIA agents Killed http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=200 ... 1300-9688r anybody else hear about this????

Assets. not agents. These were three Iraqis who were aiding the CIA.

[theski]

Thanks Nathan for the info

[Montcalm]

3 CIA agents Killed http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=200 ... 1300-9688r anybody else hear about this????

Assets. not agents. These were three Iraqis who were aiding the CIA.

Yeah the CIA would never put their agents in danger,remember Oklahoma City if what i heard is true they called every CIA employee and told them to stay at home on that day.

[Glocksman]

It was the FBI or BATF that were rumored to have been told to stay home, not the CIA.

[Oberleutnant]

Indeed. Why would CIA personnell be operating on US soil?


"Yeah the CIA would never put their agents in danger-"

The prison incident in Afganistan last year, Afganistan during the Soviet attack, Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam/Indochina or Baltic countries after the war? Although CIA field operatives undoubtedly try their best to stay out of trouble, they occasionally work on razor's edge.

[Durandal]

Looks like we just delivered a pummeling to the edges of Baghdad.

From
http://nytimes.com/2003/04/05/internati ... -MILI.html

KUWAIT, April 5 ? An armored force of 60 American tanks and other vehicles wheeled suddenly into Baghdad today, taking the city's defenders by surprise and starting a rolling firefight along boulevards lined with some people waving and others shooting.

One American tank gunner died, and hundreds, possibly thousands, of Iraqi fighters were killed as the Americans blasted back at defenders raking the tanks and armored vehicles with 23-millimeter antiaircraft guns and rocket-propelled grenades. Military officials said later that of the six Iraqi divisions ringing Baghdad before the allied attack began this week, just three were left. Only 92 of the 2,500 tanks thought to have been at the disposal of the Republican Guard troops remained, the American officials said.

Along Route 6, south of Baghdad, throughout the day, hundreds of young men were seen moving south in small groups in civilian clothes, many barefoot. A few carried white flags on sticks, as did a number of civilian cars and trucks carrying families.

But almost none of the youths looked up at a long column of American military vehicles, instead casting their eyes away.

In southern Iraq, British officers reported the grisly discovery of the remains of 200 corpses that they said were at least a year old at an abandoned military base in the town of Zubayr. [Map, Page B16.]

In Basra, allied aircraft bombed the home of Ali Hassan al-Majid, a cousin of Mr. Hussein dubbed "Chemical Ali." Mr. Majid directed the use of chemical weapons against Kurds in northern Iraq in the 1980's and had been placed in charge of Iraqi forces in the south.

In northern Iraq, however, a drive by American Special Forces and Kurdish fighters stalled for a second day against Iraqi troops who had been reinforced to defend a crucial bridge on the road to the town of Mosul.

The demonstration of American power in Baghdad today left the one American tank gunner dead, and six soldiers wounded, some seriously. It was intended, United States military officials said, to show the 4.5 million residents that the forces now encamped at the city's edges could attack at will.

"We just wanted to let them know that we're here," said Maj. Gen. Buford C. Blount III, commander of the Third Infantry Division.

It also seemed possible that allied commanders had decided to respond to the sudden appearance of Mr. Hussein on the streets of Baghdad on Friday amid a cheering crowd of supporters. No matter how carefully staged or taped in advance, the adulation was beamed out on Iraqi and Arab satellite television as a measure of proof that he had survived all allied attempts to kill or silence him.

American commanders on the scene estimated that more than 1,000 Iraqis had been killed. Officers at Central Command in Qatar put the number much higher ? 2,000 to 3,000 ? and there was no explanation for the variance.

As the American maneuver was taking place, Iraqi officials denied that American forces were in the city. Iraq's information minister, Muhammad Said al-Sahhaf, claimed further that Iraqi forces had retaken the international airport to the west of the city, which, however, remained firmly in the hands of the Third Infantry Division.

"The Republican Guard is in full control," Mr. Sahhaf said. "We have defeated them, in fact we have crushed them. We have pushed them outside the whole area of the airport." The Iraqi official insisted that the "whole trend" of the campaign had changed in Baghdad's favor.

But the First Battalion, 64th Armored Regiment, part of the Third Division's Second Brigade, traveled first to the airport and later back to its staging area on the southern perimeter of Baghdad via a different, more secure route that avoided city streets. No hostilities were reported.

The British soldiers who investigated the Zubayr military base found 200 makeshift coffins bearing very decayed corpses.

Soldiers of the Royal Horse Artillery also found Arabic documents and photographs of men bearing head wounds and showing signs of torture or disfigurement.

"I wouldn't want to speculate, but the bones inside are obviously years old," Capt. Jack Kemp told British reporters at the scene.

Also today, the 101st Airborne Division staged a rapid deployment to the outskirts of Karbala, which, like neighboring Najaf, is the site of one of the holiest shrines in Shiite Islam. Najaf has become increasingly pacified by the Army's entry into the city last week, which was welcomed in an oral edict, or fatwa, from the grand ayatollah there, Ali al-Sistani.

Karbala was bypassed earlier this week by allied forces as they first feigned an attack on its defenders, and then dashed around it through the so-called Karbala gap to reach Baghdad and seize the international airport.

"Basically, they are on the ground to go through and secure the highways and supply routes, and also they are looking to squelch any paramilitary threat in the area," Maj. Mike Slocum told reporters traveling with the formation in Karbala.

To the east, at Aziziya, marines responded to battlefield intelligence gleaned from an Iraqi special forces prisoner and rushed to a girls' school, where the prisoner said groups of Iraqi men had knocked down a wall to hide something in the courtyard and then laid fresh concrete over it in the course of three nights.

The intelligence report raised the immediate suspicion that chemical or biological weapons might have been hidden under the concrete, Marine officers said.

"We don't have a clue, but we are going to dig it up and see," said Maj. Gen. James N. Mattis, the Marine commander in the area.

In recent days, American forces in the field have been reported following such leads, which if they turn up chemical or other arms would prove that the Iraqi government possesses weapons of mass destruction that were never declared.

In Baghdad, a statement said to come from President Hussein claimed that "the enemy's grip" on Iraq "has weakened," and exhorted Iraqis to go on the attack.

"You must inflict more wounds on this enemy and fight it and deprive it of the victories it has achieved," he said. "You must rattle their joints and terrify them and speedily defeat them in and around Baghdad."

In northern Iraq this afternoon, an Iraqi shell killed the deputy commander of Kurdish forces in the area, Badradin Haki.

Iraqi Army units in the town of Khazir were reinforced on the opposite side of a strategic bridge, and randomly fired shells, mortars and Katyusha rockets. They appeared to have moved antiaircraft guns into the area, and fired on unreachable high-flying American bombers.

American soldiers were also seen scouting positions today near oil fields north of Kirkuk. More than 2,000 lightly armed American paratroopers are in northern Iraq but have not yet attacked Iraqi forces.

But coalition commanders said that if anything, Iraqi forces seemed more and more disorganized, making possible the dash into Baghdad today.

"This was a clear statement of the ability of coalition forces to move into Baghdad at times and places of their choosing and to establish their presence really wherever they need to in the city," Maj. Gen. Victor Renuart said at a news conference in Qatar. He refused to say whether any troops had stayed behind, but military officials who were part of the raid indicated that the entire force had left the city, with the exception of one destroyed, abandoned tank.

General Renuart described the path by saying the column entered from due south on the main highway that skirts the tight bend in the Tigris River that forms the Karada district of the city. The highway continues toward "what I would call pretty near the center of Baghdad and then turns out to the west," he said.

Though Baghdadis might argue that one has not been to the center of Baghdad unless reaching Liberation Square and the old city along the Tigris in that district, General Renuart nonetheless insisted, "It's about as close to the center as I know how to define."

Although the tanks were gone by midafternoon, military officials said United States Special Operations forces were operating in and around Baghdad, seeking to develop targeting information and political intelligence on the whereabouts of key leaders.

[Enforcer Talen]

linklinklink

I figure, lets keep the iniative while we have it.

[MKSheppard]

NBC News is reporting that F-16s dropped two precision-guided bombs on the residence of "Chemical" Ali just south of Basra. The Pentagon is telling them that they believe Ali was in his home at the time and was killed during the strike. They caution that they need to have confirmation on the ground to be sure, but it sounds like a good hit!

[MKSheppard]

Too-slow' Marine Commander Relieved
NewsMax.com
Sunday, April 6, 2003

"I'm afraid this could mean more casualties," one enlisted man told the L.A. Times embedded reporter, after hearing that Maj. Gen. James Mattis, commander of the 1st Marine Division had relieved and replaced his regimental commander for reportedly being too slow in his drive on Baghdad.

Col. Joe W. Dowdy, who had been commander of the 1st Marine Regiment, was reassigned Friday to another position, being replaced by Col. John Toolan, the 1st Marine Division's operations officer.

Toolan hurried to the front and immediately took charge of a speeded-up drive to Baghdad, quickly ordering more troops and more air power to the front lines. By Saturday morning, the Marine forces were racing north on Highway 6 and had begun to enter the capital.

According to the Times report, enlisted men with the 1st Marines were less than happy with the timing of Dowdy’s ouster. Dowdy, a popular commander was cautious with his troops -- reportedly at the expense of speed.

The Marines had come under heavy fire at the town of Al Kut, where they had run into stiff resistance from the Republican Guard's Baghdad Division. Previously, fighting at several cities along the way, including Umm al Qasr and Nasiriyah, had slowed the Leathernecks.

After the fight at Al Kut, with Dowdy still in command, the Marines drove all night with their headlights on to make better time. The tactic, usually considered an unsafe move, came on the heels of Mattis’s demand for greater speed at a meeting of officers.

Toolan is considered a “close-with-and engage-the-enemy" type of commander who had helped draft the division's battle plan and is a Mattis confidante.

The Marines have been driving toward Baghdad on a parallel course with the Army's 3rd Infantry Division, which reached the outskirts of Baghdad late Wednesday -- ahead of the Marines.

In the 1991 Gulf War, the Marines trumped the main Army forces and entered Kuwait City first.

[Raptor 597]

U.S. Seizes One of Saddam's Eight Palaces
1 hour, 32 minutes ago

By CALVIN WOODWARD, Associated Press Writer

U.S. troops dashed inside Baghdad on Saturday, blasting targets nestled in palm trees, to show they can move at will against Iraq (news - web sites)'s beleaguered defenders. Allies adapted their air campaign to prepare for a climactic ground assault on the capital.

Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s black-clad militia suddenly surfaced in downtown Baghdad and Iraqi troops deployed at strategic city points at nightfall, in preparation for a showdown.


But tens of thousands of citizens fled, no longer believing the assurances of their leaders that the American ground campaign was being beaten back.


South of Baghdad on the Tigris River, Marines destroyed the headquarters of the Republican Guard Second Corps and seized one of Saddam's eight palaces. They also demolished what they were told was a terrorist training camp.


As day broke Sunday, U.S. tanks were pointed in all directions at the central crossroads of the town, which could not be identified because of military restrictions. Before the battle, Marines had estimated there were anywhere from 500 to 2,000 Iraqi soldiers there.


"They didn't stay to fight," said Lt. Buster O'Brien, 27, of Boston.


U.S. officials declared a near chokehold on Baghdad even while warning that many other parts of Iraq are not yet under allied control.


"They're pretty much cut off in all directions," Air Force Capt. Dani Burrows, speaking for Central Command, said of Baghdad's fighters.


While acknowledging Americans raided a suburb, Iraqi leaders talked bravely of prevailing.


"We were able to chop off their rotten heads," said a televised statement from the Iraq military, claiming victories no one could see. Iraqi information minister Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf warned Iraqis against false claims "that the enemy has landed here or there," clearly referring to TV footage of coalition forces in Baghdad.


Allied warplanes now are flying over Baghdad nonstop, using munitions that include concrete-filled bombs meant to damage fixed targets with less risk to civilian buildings nearby. The city awoke to a hazy morning on Sunday and the sound of loud explosions.


Air strikes against the Republican Guard, Saddam Hussein's loyalist Fedayeen militia and Arab fighters from outside the country followed a daylight raid into Baghdad's industrial suburbs by at least three dozen tanks and Bradley fighting vehicles.


The aim of the probing attack was to sap morale of the Iraqi fighters, refute public claims of Iraqi officials that they are winning, and perhaps spark surrender or overthrow of Saddam's government. Americans lost at least one tank and an assault vehicle in periodic firefights.


U.S. officials said they retooled their air strikes to support a coming ground assault on the capital while hoping Iraqis would give up the fight before bloody urban combat became necessary.


In one close-quarters skirmish, Marines with bayonets battled Arab fighters from abroad in a marsh on Baghdad's southern outskirts.


Two Marine pilots were killed Saturday when their Super Cobra attack helicopter crashed in central Iraq. And the Pentagon (news - web sites) confirmed the first combat death of an American woman in the war — Pfc. Lori Ann Piestewa, 23, of Tuba City, Ariz., a single mother of two preschoolers.


Piestewa's body, and those of eight other American soldiers caught in the same ambush, were found during the rescue of American POW Jessica Lynch in Iraq. The death toll for the allied forces passed 100, three-quarters of them American.

At sites scattered around the United States, there were memorials Saturday for some of the slain, Marine Lance Cpl. Brian Rory Buesing of Cedar Key, Fla., among them.

"We're not supposed to be doing this, you're not supposed to be burying your children," Buesing's father, William Buesing III, said during a service in Florida.

Bullish on Baghdad and their progress overall, U.S. officials cautioned that allies did not have control in much of the country. As well, they had only made an incursion in the capital, not staying to hold ground.

"The fight is far from finished," Maj. Gen. Gene Renuart told a briefing at Central Command's Qatar headquarters.

President Bush (news - web sites), spending the weekend at the Camp David retreat in Maryland, looked beyond the battle for Baghdad to focus on postwar rebuilding of Iraq, and prepared to meet with British Prime Minister Tony Blair (news - web sites) in Northern Ireland on Monday.

A convoy of armored vehicles from the 3rd Infantry Division rolled into Baghdad, although apparently well away from downtown, firing on trucks and other targets half-hidden by leaves and turning them into fireballs.

During their trip into southwestern Baghdad, U.S. troops ran into nests of intense resistance, drawing rocket-propelled grenades and even anti-aircraft cannon, turned on them at ground level.

And on the airport road, Iraqi troops posed for Iraqi photographers standing atop what they said were U.S. armored personnel carriers destroyed in battle Friday and Saturday.

Renuart said the foray "was a clear statement of the ability of coalition forces to move into Baghdad at the time and place of their choosing."

Iraqis were fleeing the city by the tens of thousands, some in vehicles bearing improvised white flags made from torn-up towels or T-shirts.

In the evening, Baghdad's streets were bustling with Iraqi troops, militia, loyalists from Saddam's Baath party and all manner of armed men. Tanks and field artillery faced approaches most likely to be used by the allies.

Members of the Fedayeen, a militia led by Saddam's son Odai, appeared downtown for the first time since the war began, wearing their distinctive black uniforms. The United States considers them ill-trained but fanatical.

Lt. Gen. Michael Moseley, in charge of the air war, said from his Saudi command post that the Republican Guard, backbone of the Iraqi armed forces, has been hit so hard it "doesn't really exist anymore."

Some 6,500 Iraqi soldiers are in allied custody

In northern Iraq, Kurdish forces backed by U.S. warplanes drove Iraqi forces farther back from Kurdish frontiers. The Kurds moved within 20 miles of Kirkuk, Iraq's second largest oil center, and a similar distance from the oil city of Khaneqin.

In the south, two allied aircraft struck the Basra residence of Saddam's cousin, Ali Hassan al-Majid, commander of southern forces. He is known as Chemical Ali by opponents who accuse him of once ordering the use chemical weapons against Kurds.

A U.S. official in Washington, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Ali was believed to be home when his residence was hit but that it was not known whether he was killed.

British forces discovered boxes containing hundreds of human remains in a warehouse between Basra and Az Zubayr. Officials said the remains were not from this war.

They also found a catalogue of photographs of the dead, some indicating that the people had been shot.

Red Cross workers in Baghdad reported several hundred war wounded and dozens of dead had been brought to four city hospitals since Friday.

"The hospitals are finding it increasingly difficult to cope with the continuous influx of wounded," Muin Kassis of the International Committee of the Red Cross said in Amman, Jordan.

Southwest of the capital, units of the 3rd Infantry captured the abandoned headquarters of the Republican Guard's Medina division in the town of Suwayrah.

An Army mechanic in his armored vehicle toppled a mosaic of Saddam outside the headquarters, then took a sledgehammer to it. Another soldier clutched the disembodied arm broken off a statue of the Iraqi president

----------

I find this most interesting:

In one close-quarters skirmish, Marines with bayonets battled Arab fighters from abroad in a marsh on Baghdad's southern outskirts.

[RadiO]

British forces storm Basra in major offensive:

BBC News story

[MKSheppard]

British forces storm Basra in major offensive:

BBC News story

about damn time...

[MKSheppard]

The BBC's world affairs editor John Simpson has been injured in Northern Iraq in an apparent mistaken attack on a US special forces convoy by one of their own planes.

Moments after the attack, John Simpson broadcast live by satellite telephone on the BBC news channel, News 24.

This is a really bad own goal by the Americans John Simpson "Well it's a bit of a disaster... I was in a convoy of eight or 10 cars in northern Iraq coming up to a place that has just recently been captured. American special forces in a truck - two trucks I think - beside them, plus a very senior figure ..."

Simpson to US soldier: "Shut up. I'm broadcasting! Oh yes, I'm fine - am I bleeding."

US soldier: "Yes, you've got a cut."

Simpson: "I thought you were going to stop me. I think I've just got a bit of shrapnel in the leg, that's all. OK, I will - thanks a lot.

"That was one of the American special forces medics - I thought he was going to try to stop me reporting. I've counted 10 or 12 bodies around us. So there are Americans dead. It was an American plane that dropped the bomb right beside us - I saw it land about 10 feet, 12 feet away I think.

"We were so close to the damage and - it didn't damage us badly at any rate. This is just a scene from hell here. All the vehicles on fire. There are bodies burning around me, there are bodies lying around, there are bits of bodies on the ground. This is a really bad own goal by the Americans.

"We don't really know how many Americans are dead. There is ammunition exploding in fact from some of these cars. A very senior member of the Kurdish Republic's government who also may have been injured."

TV presenter Maxine Mawhinney: "John, just to recap for the viewers, an American plane dropped a bomb on your convoy of American special forces - many dead, many injured?"

Simpson: "I am sorry to be so excitable. I am bleeding through the ear and everything but that is absolutely the case. I saw this American convoy, and they bombed it. They hit their own people - they may have hit this Kurdish figure - very senior, and they've killed a lot of ordinary characters, and I am just looking at the bodies now and it is not a very pretty sight."

[Chris OFarrell]

British forces storm Basra in major offensive:

BBC News story

about damn time...

Yes its EXACTLY the right time. They actualy have a good degree of popular support from the people there now, they have made a good deal of progress in proving they are not the genocidal rabid killing Machines Saddams PR machine has made them out to be. They have very badly reduced the abilities of the force in the city AND have good HUMINT on their numbers, locations and capibilities (thanks to a large degree to the aformentioned interactions).

And so now with a good deal of support they DO go in and hit hard the locations they need to and take over the city. And have done so in a way that actualy MAKES it appear as if they *shock* might be liberating them and helping them. Rather, then as you appear to always be suggesting, blasting in in an armoured shock attack and blow everything away that even looks like it might be threatening making many people WANT to fight them and WANT to help the fanatics in their undercover opps. Instead of providing reliable HUMINT on WHO they are and WHERE they are.

The Brits could have won the battle of Bazra in a day. What they have DONE with their tactics such as the getting to know the locals, the infamous soccer match with hundreds of people and other such stunts is help to win the PEACE which is grossly more importaint in the medium and long term and well worth waiting a week for.

Sheash. Speed is NOT everything. The Brits have massive experence with this kind of situation in Northern Irland and are trying to get off on the RIGHT foot this time so it does NOT end up like there.

Please keep it in the debate thread from now on.- Vympel

[Warspite]

NBC News is reporting that F-16s dropped two precision-guided bombs on the residence of "Chemical" Ali just south of Basra. The Pentagon is telling them that they believe Ali was in his home at the time and was killed during the strike. They caution that they need to have confirmation on the ground to be sure, but it sounds like a good hit!

The British troops had already entered Chemical Ali's house during the week, and he wasn't there, some fighter jock has been too eager.

[Sea Skimmer]

The BBC's world affairs editor John Simpson has been injured in Northern Iraq in an apparent mistaken attack on a US special forces convoy by one of their own planes.

NBC is reporting at least 18 Kurdish dead, no word on any Americans.


The convoy had just called in a strike on an Iraqi tank, its possibul the wrong coordinates where transmitted. Thats what caused several friendly fires with Special Forces in Afghanistan.

[HemlockGrey]

Chris;

Speed is essential to the war. Baghdad must be overrun as quickly as possible and the military base and brass seized. There will be time to win the population over after Saddam's forces have been broken and lost control of Baghdad and the surrouding area.

[Alex Moon]

NBC Reporter David Bloom died while travelling with 3rd ID today. Early reports indicate it was a Pulmonary Embolism(sp?).

[Master of Ossus]

NBC News is reporting that F-16s dropped two precision-guided bombs on the residence of "Chemical" Ali just south of Basra. The Pentagon is telling them that they believe Ali was in his home at the time and was killed during the strike. They caution that they need to have confirmation on the ground to be sure, but it sounds like a good hit!

The British troops had already entered Chemical Ali's house during the week, and he wasn't there, some fighter jock has been too eager.

Well, they did find the remains of his bodyguard in the rubble.